You're watching tv on the couch with a bowl of vanilla ice cream when someone barges in...

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  1. #91
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    malfeasance's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by zwhit View Post
    No, I wrote it the way I intended it to be written. Read it again. If you provoke someone to attack you, you shouldn't be able to kill someone in self defense. Which is what Zimmerman did, in my opinion. If Zimmerman hadn't been carrying a weapon, he wouldn't have gotten himself into that situation. And if you think that's ok, I hope you dont carry a weapon. You're demented as fuck if you think it's ok.
    You do not understand criminal law. This discussion has nothin to do with what I "think is ok," which is what you repeated twice. I was discussing the law. You are discussing, I think, what you wish the law was, rather than what it is.

    You just need to study more of what the law actually is, then maybe we can discuss it.

    Your beef is with the law. If you were on the jury, following the law, you would have cut Zimmerman loose, too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Milford King View Post
    true story... was at a bar with a lawyer buddy of mine (real estate lawyer not a cool one) when this story was on the tv.. loud as hell and he turns to me and says “well
    i guess Trayvon be getting his grave-on” ... soon as he opened his lips it got completely quiet... some brothers in there gave us some dirty looks... I slowly side stepped my bud and slipped out the back haha
    LOL! That could have turned out badly.

  2. #92
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    malfeasance's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by zwhit View Post
    People like malfeasance are the reason why our 2nd amendment right is under attack.

    Malf, answer this, please. You said earlier you believe no crime was committed in the case on the OP, correct?
    The Botham Jean murder trial? I have predicted an acquittal on the murder charge. I think I have been very careful to explain that I am not aware of lesser charges and can't find a reliable source for what lesser charges the jury may consider, so I have not predicted anything with respect to potential convictions other than murder. I am completely in the dark and do not even want to venture a guess in absolute ignorance.

    I think your first sentence is so far off base as to be laughable. You obviously do not know me at all, even though you pretend to.

  3. #93
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    By the way, I am all ears to hear why I am wrong, that former Officer Gugyer is going down for murder. But your explanation has to involve evidence. You can't just say, "This whole situation is just wrong. What she did is completely fucked up." Because I would just agree with you and nod my head, but those statements do not mean she is going down for murder. That requires proving a case, and, as we saw, the burden on her defenses is on the prosecution.

    What do that have to disprove her defense?

    Seriously? What?

    A number of you have pointed out that she could not possibly have thought this was her apartment, that she had to have noticed it was different. Well, then, you are asking the jury to find, beyond a reasonable doubt, that she knew this was not her apartment, and that knowing this, she decided to barge in and kill an innocent man. That does not even make sense, and no jury is going to unanimously agree to that.

    Anything else?

    What other evidence is there to offer to disprove her defense?

    Like I said, I am all ears.
    Last edited by malfeasance; 09-29-2019 at 03:33 PM.

  4. #94
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    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...g-botham-jean/

    Here are the highlights from the trial last week. Read through it and examine it for clues as to what evidence the prosecution can use to disprove Guyger's defense. They can't just say, "Hey, she turned out to be wrong." In order to commit murder, she has to know she was committing wrong. She has to know this was not her apartment. She has to know she was not defending herself from an intruder in her apartment - at the time, right there in the few seconds when this was happening, not after the fact. How are they going to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt in the mind of every single juror for a unanimous verdict?

    By the way, the prosecution has rested. All of their evidence is in. The rest of the trial is putting forward her defense.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    Her testimony is that it was dark, and the first thing she noticed is this man (silhouette) get up and come toward her. She drew her gun and ordered him to show his hands. He did not and sped up toward her, she yelled, Hey! Hey! Hey! and then shot him twice.

    It was only after this that she noticed it was not her apartment (I don't know if she turned the light on or what, I have not been able to find a transcript of video of her actual testimony and did not watch it live streamed).

    So how do you convict her of murder if you are on the jury and that is the evidence with which you are presented.

    The prosecutors aren't really questioning whether she thought it was her apartment, but why (they were making a big deal out of the fact that she was apparently "Sexting" at the time and so maybe was not as tired as she claimed). I do not think that is particularly compelling to a jury.

    Remember how a criminal trial works. The prosecution must prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. There is not burden on her to prove anything.

    If the jury has any doubt whatsoever (and it's reasonable), then they find not guilty.

    The prosecution is going to have a very hard time proving beyond a doubt that she went into a strange man's apartment, knew it, and shot him anyway.

    The more I hear about the evidence, the less I think a trial was brought for any other reason than public outcry. I am starting to think the Ranger (lead investigator who thinks no crime was committed) was right.

    This does not mean I do not think what happened was tragic, horrifying, and wrong. But that does not necessarily make it illegal under Texas law.
    You say you are starting to think the ranger, who thinks no crime was committed, is right.

    If so, you think I can walk in someone's apartment, kill them, and I DID NOT commit ANY crime.

    I understand the law fine. This is not murder. But it is a crime. Someone is dead because she accidentally went into the wrong apartment. If you think no crime was committed, again, I hope you do not carry a weapon.
    Last edited by zwhit; 09-29-2019 at 03:47 PM.

  6. #96
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    The trial continued on Saturday. The lead investigator, Ranger David Armstrong, was the defense's sole witness Saturday. How often is the lead investigator a star defense witness???? I am trying to tell you this case is different.

    https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/sp...7-3d69aff27eb4

  7. #97
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    We're not in disagreement that it isn't murder. Jesus christ.

    I really don't care enough to try to lay my point out for you any longer

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwhit View Post
    If so, you think I can walk in someone's apartment, kill them, and I DID NOT commit ANY crime.
    It entirely depends upon the circumstances, and every case is different. There are absolutely circumstances where this could be the case. Would it be rare? Sure. Extraordinarily rare? Sure. Based only on news reports I have read, this is starting to look like it is an extraordinarily rare case.

    You keep wanting to make this about me, somehow personal.

    I am just discussing the evidence that has been presented.

    And I DO carry a weapon, holy crap, don't you read what I write? How many times do I have to say it?

    But whether I carry a weapon or not does not change the evidence in this case, does it? It also does not change the law. The evidence is certainly not adding up to murder. I stand by my prediction.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwhit View Post
    We're not in disagreement that it isn't murder. Jesus christ.

    I really don't care enough to try to lay my point out for you any longer
    LOL! You had a point?

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwhit View Post
    This is not murder. But it is a crime.
    You haven't said what crime and why you think the jury will be allowed to consider this other crime. At least not yet.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    LOL! You had a point?
    Yeah. See if you can understand this. If you think no crime is committed if you walk into someone's apartment and shoot them dead, you are a demented old fuck. Regardless if she thinks it was her apartment, someone was negligently killed.

  12. #102
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    Law enforcement just need to start hiring higher IQ individuals and many of these problems would go away, ignorance and fear is a bad combination

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    And just to be clear, there was no evidence of ANY crime committed by George Zimmerman. Not just murder. As I posted above, lesser charges were pushed by the prosecution, including manslaughter.

    The one juror who has come forward complaining about sleepless nights and all still says she had no choice. It was like checking a box.

    That's because the law is what it is. George Zimmerman did not break it.
    Just because someone beats a charge doesn’t mean their actions were right. The legal system is filled with stories of those that were wrongly convicted and others that never received the punishment that they deserved.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #104
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    My wife heard a news report yesterday that said there were lesser charges for the jury to consider, but she did not remember what the charges where. She said the reporter listed at least three. I guess we'll see when we get to jury instructions.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by _BeastMode View Post
    Just because someone beats a charge doesn’t mean their actions were right. The legal system is filled with stories of those that were wrongly convicted and others that never received the punishment that they deserved.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I haven't said anything differently from that, _BeastMode.

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