Pharmacom Store


Teen cycle scenario help

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 48
  1. #31
    Member


    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    35

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    100

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemalt View Post
    That's awful for your age. I'm 44 and have ~500 ng/dL, along with classic symptoms of low T: low libido, lethargy, low muscle mass, depression, irritability, etc. Sounds like you have the same. There's also invisible damage that we may be suffering, such as harm to the cardiovascular system, risk of diabetes, maybe even risk of Alzheimer's.

    You'll get a lot of hardcore warnings here about starting before the "magic" age of 24 or 25 but you should also consider the risks of doing nothing. I.e. all the risk factors listed above.

    Something to look into is using Clomid and/or Anastrozole/Exemestane therapy to kick your HPTA into high gear and possibly double your test. Might work, might not, but worth a try. This avoids having to pin anything, dealing with shutdown, HCG, fertility concerns, etc. It's not the same as a mega-testosterone cycle with dbol/tren thrown in but it might solve your problems and be covered by health insurance to boot.

    okay so lets say i stop using the andro gel, only been on it for a short amount of time so shouldn't be bad, what would you suggest as far a dosages go for the AI and which AI? I definitely feel the symptoms of low t specifically NO sex drive, irritability, and low energy even though i get 8 hours or more of sleep every night. and i agree that clearly my low t numbers are on the extremely low end of the "normal" range. my total t is smack dab in the middle and im sure that if my low t number was somewhere in the 18-20 range id feel great. I am not against stopping the adrogel at all but I would like to attempt to fix my situation some how safely.
    Last edited by smith791; 04-20-2013 at 10:26 AM.

  2. #32
    Member


    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    35

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    100

    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    A simple AI would boost his T easily into the high range I imagine.
    so maybe like a four week cycle of an AI?
    do you think that would raise my free test for good or would it start to drop back down again after a short period of time..

  3. #33
    Member


    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    35

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    100

    here is another option tell me what you guys think. I don't see my doctor for another 4 months. say i lay off the andro gel and decide to run a 5 week cycle of super dmz 2.0 with proper pct and pre load. after post cycle is it possible that my levels could be higher than they were before? or would this just be doing more damage...

  4. #34
    Senior Member

    Vicious 13's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,587

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    857968274

    Teen cycle scenario help

    I think they would be the same after pct

  5. #35
    Member


    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    35

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    100

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious 13 View Post
    I think they would be the same after pct
    Even tho my pct would include some sort of natty test booster an liquid nolva?

  6. #36
    Member


    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    35

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    100

    any advice would be appreciated does anyone have any suggestions

  7. #37
    Senior Member

    chocolatemalt's Avatar


    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Purple Mountains
    Posts
    6,153

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    655
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    766
    Thanked in
    509 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    Quote Originally Posted by smith791 View Post
    okay so lets say i stop using the andro gel, only been on it for a short amount of time so shouldn't be bad, what would you suggest as far a dosages go for the AI and which AI? I definitely feel the symptoms of low t specifically NO sex drive, irritability, and low energy even though i get 8 hours or more of sleep every night. and i agree that clearly my low t numbers are on the extremely low end of the "normal" range. my total t is smack dab in the middle and im sure that if my low t number was somewhere in the 18-20 range id feel great. I am not against stopping the adrogel at all but I would like to attempt to fix my situation some how safely.
    I'm going to be experimenting with this for the first time after my current cycle and PCT, probably July. The doses will be low: 25 mg/day Clomid and 12.5 mg/day Aromasin. I'll probably go with one for a month, the other for the next month, then double em up after that... with lots of blood tests to see how it's affecting me and maybe some dosage adjustments in response.

    This is a relatively new idea for TRT but there have been studies:

    http://jeffreydach.com/2012/06/18/cl...y-dach-md.aspx
    http://urologytimes.modernmedicine.c...e-treating-low
    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/89/3/1174.long

    The first article is just a case study but has some nice explanations and a chart showing something uncommon in the AAS literature -- the negative feedback mechanisms on the hypothalamus and pituitary are triggered by estrogen, not testosterone directly. It's aromatized in situ in order to be measured. This is important to understanding how an AI or a SERM will directly screw with that negative feedback, to our benefit. Also you'll notice that the doc settled on the double-up method with both an AI and SERM.

    I haven't tried the androgel route but from everyone's comments in these forums it sounds like it's a goopy pain in the ass, you have to be careful about physical contact with women and children, and it will shut down your HPTA just like injections, causing testicular atrophy (shrinkage, aching, ascension, and possible fertility issues down the road). Better than nothing but there may be better options.

    Given the literature on the AI/SERM TRT options, you should be able to get a doc to help once you've pointed out the studies. Tell him you've done your time at the 10th percentile and you've had enough of that shit, now it's time for 90th percentile (~900 ng/dL). If you get no love, find another doc. It's your health and your life.

  8. #38
    Lame 80s knowledge

    AMA rider's Avatar


    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Motocross track
    Posts
    311

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    18
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11
    Thanked in
    9 Posts
    Rep Points
    1474323385

    I'm not sure what you are looking for ? You could crash it on purpose to get a script. You could be concerned why its a bit low. Or, say fuck it and run a proper cycle. My best advise is to be as responsible as you can by doing bloods, and working with your Doc. Good luck, be smart.

  9. #39
    Senior Member

    Vicious 13's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,587

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    857968274

    Teen cycle scenario help

    Y don't u try running some formeron I've seen good labs on that

  10. #40
    Senior Member

    Vicious 13's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,587

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    857968274

    Teen cycle scenario help

    Choc have u seen labs from any natty guy w test levels at 900..: I've looked and I can't find any

  11. #41
    Senior Member

    chocolatemalt's Avatar


    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Purple Mountains
    Posts
    6,153

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    655
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    766
    Thanked in
    509 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious 13 View Post
    Choc have u seen labs from any natty guy w test levels at 900..: I've looked and I can't find any
    Nope, I'm just using the data from that French TELECOM study that I posted. Roughly 10% of adult males < age 40 will have levels 900 or higher, which is a pretty large number of guys overall. I'm fudging that a bit since the charts don't show 90th percentile, only 95th, but it should be about right.

  12. #42
    Senior Member

    Vicious 13's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,587

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    857968274

    Teen cycle scenario help

    I'm just curious at 22 I was below 600.. I've never seen a natty guy above 800 yet everyone always says below 900 is pathetic... Just curious where the studies are getting these numbers from. I'd think someone here out of the thousands of members would face numbers that high if it really were the norm... Not trying to argue w u this is all just me being curious

  13. #43
    Senior Member

    chocolatemalt's Avatar


    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Purple Mountains
    Posts
    6,153

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    655
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    766
    Thanked in
    509 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    Well, keep in mind that we are about 30 years removed from that TELECOM study done in the 80's, and testosterone levels have fallen at least 15-20% in that time... that is probably a conservative estimate. So a guy in that 80's study who had a 900 level would likely have only .8*900 = 720, if he were the same age today and suffered the modern chemical industry's estrogenic assault. That's a pretty big difference. It might explain the relative rarity of >900 guys now.

    I'd really like to see a fresh study as comprehensive as the TELECOM one.

  14. #44
    Senior Member

    Vicious 13's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,587

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    857968274

    Teen cycle scenario help

    That actually makes perfect sense because that's much closer to the number I generally see... If that really is the case though its sad I can't believe someone doesn't see a problem w it... Or maybe that's y we are seeing more and more trt commercials today

  15. #45
    Senior Member


    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    230

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Rep Points
    346820529

    I would take clomid to get my natty test up. Fuck the gel, all its gonna do is shut down your production of test, making you rely on it...
    Cycle if you want to, you already have your mind made up. At least you're on here educating yourself to make an informed decision. Treatment with clomid seems like a better choice than cruising on gel your whole life...

Similar Threads

  1. Soda consumption linked to teen violence, study finds
    By The Admin in forum Muscle Central
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-31-2013, 03:43 PM
  2. Top 10 Tips To Successful Teen Bodybuilding
    By The Admin in forum Muscle Central
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-31-2013, 03:38 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-21-2012, 09:47 PM
  4. Critique my cycle or is this good? Bulk CYCLE
    By mrbjoiner in forum Anabolic Steroids
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-24-2012, 02:54 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Copyright© 2012-2020 Anabolic Steroid Discussion Forums