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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlizzRush View Post
    I've never heard of a successful active shooter incident in a place where everyone's carrying.

    My opinion, the fact that you have a family is all the reason you need to OWN and use your firearms. With my kids I'm open with them about what it is and I'll let them look and hold it, but only when dad or moms around. This way all the mystery around the weapon is gone and they know the dangers of improper handling of a firearm.

    Media says guns were legally purchased... CA has some of the dumbest gun laws around. So I take it these two had "assault rifles" with 10rd capacity and bullet buttons installed on their weapons while they carried out there attack? I think not.

    Here is the biggest problem gun grabbers face and people who live in fear quickly forget... The ONLY individuals who will follow the rules are LAW ABIDING individuals. Criminals will continue to break the rules regardless of how many we make to prevent more incidents like this..

    End rant

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    There is nothing wrong with teaching your kids about guns. The worst thing you can do is stick it on the top shelf of a closet and hope they don't find it. They need to understand being safe around them and why they should not fuck with one if found.

    The active shooter argument and people being armed is great, but sadly we are all allowed guns right now and the active shooters still fucking happen. We would almost have to be forced to carry and be allowed to have them anywhere. It would be such a pain in the ass to strap up every time I go out and worry some shit is going to happen. That is no way to live life. You shouldn't have to worry about your family getting killed at the movies, mall, or school.

    Criminals always break the rules and taking guns won't stop that. Unless you can take every single one out of the country and ban them, gun violence will happen. Restricting them is not going to solve the problem either, but it will make it more difficult for someone who doesn't have extensive underground networks to get one and gun down 20 people.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by weizen View Post
    There is nothing wrong with teaching your kids about guns. The worst thing you can do is stick it on the top shelf of a closet and hope they don't find it. They need to understand being safe around them and why they should not fuck with one if found.

    The active shooter argument and people being armed is great, but sadly we are all allowed guns right now and the active shooters still fucking happen. We would almost have to be forced to carry and be allowed to have them anywhere. It would be such a pain in the ass to strap up every time I go out and worry some shit is going to happen. That is no way to live life. You shouldn't have to worry about your family getting killed at the movies, mall, or school.

    Criminals always break the rules and taking guns won't stop that. Unless you can take every single one out of the country and ban them, gun violence will happen. Restricting them is not going to solve the problem either, but it will make it more difficult for someone who doesn't have extensive underground networks to get one and gun down 20 people.
    The premise that people are made to carry out of fear is really childish. Fear shouldn't be a driving factor as to why people carry. Fear clouds judgment and forces people into rash emotional decision making. I carry because I can. I am a free, law abiding citizen and it's a right I was given from birth. I carry because I have the skills, ability and mindset to make a difference. Conceal carry in itself is a lifestyle, what caliber, attire, constant threat assessments etc. Its not something you decide to do because people are being killed on TV.

    I can live with stricter gun laws, but the problem is government will never stop wanting more. One day it's registration, the next, they want to limit what type, round capacity, new standards for minor components, impose new taxes etc. then finally, the involuntary removal of your firearms.

    "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees"

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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlizzRush View Post
    The premise that people are made to carry out of fear is really childish. Fear shouldn't be a driving factor as to why people carry. Fear clouds judgment and forces people into rash emotional decision making. I carry because I can. I am a free, law abiding citizen and it's a right I was given from birth. I carry because I have the skills, ability and mindset to make a difference. Conceal carry in itself is a lifestyle, what caliber, attire, constant threat assessments etc. Its not something you decide to do because people are being killed on TV.

    I can live with stricter gun laws, but the problem is government will never stop wanting more. One day it's registration, the next, they want to limit what type, round capacity, new standards for minor components, impose new taxes etc. then finally, the involuntary removal of your firearms.

    "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees"

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    I'm willing to bet you and most people that carry legally are responsible and I'm good with that. Carrying is to be prepared for a situation involving violence plain and simple. You hint at it by threat assessments. It could be argued that feeling unprepared to make a difference would make someone fearful. I am pretty sure I can relate the desire to carry out of fear in every instance. That doesn't mean it is wrong though. I think there is a difference in fear causing you to carry and fear resulting from some crazy altercation that ends up in a shooting. Someone that is fearing for their life did not intend to do harm in the first place. Someone that is angry and exacerbating is the problem. Regardless, I support the decision to CC. I am also ok with the reason being that they can fight an active shooter. It is sad that is a reality of why most people carry. And not aimed at the CC'rs, but because we have a shitty culture with idiots fuck it up for everyone that is responsible.

    The government will never take all of the guns. It isn't a matter of give an inch and they take a mile. There has to be more control. Not to the extent of continuously taking privileges, but something similar to my previous post. Who goes hunting with a 30 round mag in an assault rifle? What else would you use an assault for?
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by weizen View Post
    I'm willing to bet you and most people that carry legally are responsible and I'm good with that. Carrying is to be prepared for a situation involving violence plain and simple. You hint at it by threat assessments. It could be argued that feeling unprepared to make a difference would make someone fearful. I am pretty sure I can relate the desire to carry out of fear in every instance. That doesn't mean it is wrong though. I think there is a difference in fear causing you to carry and fear resulting from some crazy altercation that ends up in a shooting. Someone that is fearing for their life did not intend to do harm in the first place. Someone that is angry and exacerbating is the problem. Regardless, I support the decision to CC. I am also ok with the reason being that they can fight an active shooter. It is sad that is a reality of why most people carry. And not aimed at the CC'rs, but because we have a shitty culture with idiots fuck it up for everyone that is responsible.

    The government will never take all of the guns. It isn't a matter of give an inch and they take a mile. There has to be more control. Not to the extent of continuously taking privileges, but something similar to my previous post. Who goes hunting with a 30 round mag in an assault rifle? What else would you use an assault for?
    We can disagree as gentlemen, I respect your position.

    Hunting isn't necessarily the only reason to own firearms. My son fully intends to serve when he's older. Sure, he's young, but he has something that he wants to work toward. When he does, he will be intimately familiar with his weapon before he's even issued it.

    Could I take my rifles hunting? Sure. Would I? Nope. There's better tools available.


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    California has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. Your gun law argument is laughable.


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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlizzRush View Post
    We can disagree as gentlemen, I respect your position.

    Hunting isn't necessarily the only reason to own firearms. My son fully intends to serve when he's older. Sure, he's young, but he has something that he wants to work toward. When he does, he will be intimately familiar with his weapon before he's even issued it.

    Could I take my rifles hunting? Sure. Would I? Nope. There's better tools available.


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    Depending on what he does when he joins, we will be. I'm saying that hunting is the only positive thing that one uses a firearm for. The military is a good reason, but general society is what I'm getting at.
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommygunz View Post
    California has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. Your gun law argument is laughable.


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    I'm not up to speed with all of Cali's rules and I'm sure some are stupid because they aren't preventing everything going on. You can't stop it all, but you would make it hard for the crazy guy who has no record from buying what he wants and running around with it. There is no perfect solution. I'm just suggesting some ideas that can help meet in the middle. The point is to make it difficult. Making it impossible also means people like you and me won't be able to get one.
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    Making it harder to own a gun will only make things worse.... Giving every good guy a gun and letting everyone carry however they want will only make things better....

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    Yep our laws are def fucked up. I can't legally buy one here because I have a medical marijuana card. Magazines over 5 rounds have been banned for years as well a detachable mags, 10 day waiting period for even a .22, stupid laws that don't do a damn thing. Over 185k guns purchased on Black Friday alone this year.
    Guns aren't the problem.


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    But you can buy a gun if you drink alcohol? Those are some stupid laws. The waiting period is not the issue. When people say that guns don't cause violence, it is people, I agree whole heartedly. The problem is the discrimination of people getting the guns and not necessarily the guns themselves. That should be the focus. The guns are virtually immaterial to the problem, but the only reason I take the stance on limiting the more powerful weaponry is because there are too many issues. I honestly don't think it is wrong to own one, but it is not possible to eliminate the problem if you don't do it as whole. Call it some left wing shit if you guys want, but what realistic solution is there? To arm everyone up and say society will be a bunch of vigilantes is far from the truth. Most people are pussies. I didn't see any heroes sacrificing for the mass on the planes in 9/11 (ok, one plane of a couple people). I'm just saying if I had a choice to defend a bunch of people I could give a shit about normally or seek a way out, I would seek a way out. I would help a child and maybe a female, but generally I will not risk my life for you. It was different in the military

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    Quote Originally Posted by weizen View Post
    I'm willing to bet you and most people that carry legally are responsible and I'm good with that. Carrying is to be prepared for a situation involving violence plain and simple. You hint at it by threat assessments. It could be argued that feeling unprepared to make a difference would make someone fearful. I am pretty sure I can relate the desire to carry out of fear in every instance. That doesn't mean it is wrong though. I think there is a difference in fear causing you to carry and fear resulting from some crazy altercation that ends up in a shooting. Someone that is fearing for their life did not intend to do harm in the first place. Someone that is angry and exacerbating is the problem. Regardless, I support the decision to CC. I am also ok with the reason being that they can fight an active shooter. It is sad that is a reality of why most people carry. And not aimed at the CC'rs, but because we have a shitty culture with idiots fuck it up for everyone that is responsible.

    The government will never take all of the guns. It isn't a matter of give an inch and they take a mile. There has to be more control. Not to the extent of continuously taking privileges, but something similar to my previous post. Who goes hunting with a 30 round mag in an assault rifle? What else would you use an assault for?
    Carrying a defensive firearm has nothing to do with fear. It has everything to do with being prepared. What is your plan if you are confronted by a few thugs who want to rob/kill/beat you? If they aren't armed they at least have the advantage of disparity of force. In other words, no matter how big, strong, and how well trained you are in martial arts they have the advantage. How about a home invasion? A single shot Thompson Contender is nigh on useless for defense. You'll be wishing for that semi-auto rifle once you've spent that one round in a Thompson Contender or while you're operating that bolt action.

    Speaking of assault rifles, what IS an assault rifle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by weizen View Post
    I'm not up to speed with all of Cali's rules and I'm sure some are stupid because they aren't preventing everything going on. You can't stop it all, but you would make it hard for the crazy guy who has no record from buying what he wants and running around with it. There is no perfect solution. I'm just suggesting some ideas that can help meet in the middle. The point is to make it difficult. Making it impossible also means people like you and me won't be able to get one.
    exactly.. alot of the most homicidal people don't have a rap sheet. the only right way is to start getting there faster. they said shootout started 4 hrs after rampage start point. idk when they got called but that's a long time. just have to accept that having one on you is even more important now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    Carrying a defensive firearm has nothing to do with fear. It has everything to do with being prepared. What is your plan if you are confronted by a few thugs who want to rob/kill/beat you? If they aren't armed they at least have the advantage of disparity of force. In other words, no matter how big, strong, and how well trained you are in martial arts they have the advantage. How about a home invasion? A single shot Thompson Contender is nigh on useless for defense. You'll be wishing for that semi-auto rifle once you've spent that one round in a Thompson Contender or while you're operating that bolt action.

    Speaking of assault rifles, what IS an assault rifle?
    Then you are afraid to not be prepared and not be able to defend yourself. I think a man naturally wants to be capable to handle and protect his family. I fear not being able to provide. I am not in a position where I have to live looking over my shoulder, but I see the value in someone being able to protect themselves. No argument there. Most guys who rob homes are not looking for violence. They are hoping to not be caught and don't want to die. If they have a way out, they will most likely take it unless they are there to specifically kill you. Maybe you and your family make tons of really bad enemies that makes you need to worry like that. Most people don't. You make some of these thugs sound like they are the bravest most courageous human beings.

    I would call a long gun that fires semi automatically or at a higher rate to be an assault rifle.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by weizen View Post
    I'm not up to speed with all of Cali's rules and I'm sure some are stupid because they aren't preventing everything going on. You can't stop it all, but you would make it hard for the crazy guy who has no record from buying what he wants and running around with it. There is no perfect solution. I'm just suggesting some ideas that can help meet in the middle. The point is to make it difficult. Making it impossible also means people like you and me won't be able to get one.
    Laws won't make it harder for the crazy guy to buy a gun. When they steal a gun or buy one out of the trunk of a car in an alley they aren't filling out a purchase form. Laws just inconvenience the law-abiding.

    Just a little history on gun laws for you: Gun control started with the National Firearms Act in 1934. Which began taxing firearms transfers and adding additional taxes on certain firearms. Ever since that moment the gun control movement has been taking gun rights with each new law, saying "we need to compromise." The way the anti-gun movement works is like this: You give me your house and your car. Let's compromise and you just give me your car. There hasn't been any compromising. It's been all take by the anti-gun crowd. Then when shit hits the fan and some lunatic with an illegal firearm he purchased illegally starts to shoot up some place which is a legal gun-free zone while he's wearing body armor (wearing body armor in the commission of a felony is already illegal, by the way) there's a sudden cry for more gun laws.

    There isn't anyone who has yet proposed a law or an idea of a law that will stop people from breaking the law. Look at Europe, South American, Africa, Asia, Australia. All these places have strict gun laws and gun bans but they STILL have gun violence, STILL have mass shootings. Do they just need more laws and maybe the criminals will just say "FUCK! There's that one new law that's stopping me from killing! FUCK FUCK FUCK!!!!" No. They just break the law and kill anyway. And they kill people who are defenseless. People who have been bamboozled into thinking the government and its laws are going to protect them and keep them safe.

    Crime in Detroit is dropping. The chief of police publicly said citizens need to legally arm themselves because the police can't be everywhere. CPLs applied for and issued to those who qualify, a bunch of defensive shootings nearly daily, sometimes multiple times a day, and now it's becoming rare. Why? The bad guys no longer have vulnerable targets. They have to do something else or risk losing their lives over a handful of change in someone's pocket or over some over-priced Nikes.

    Then compare Detroit to Chicago, the city with the strictest gun laws in the land. Eight killed, twenty wounded this past weekend. Detroit? One shooting injury during a robbery. That's all I could find about Detroit gun violence this past weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weizen View Post
    Then you are afraid to not be prepared and not be able to defend yourself. I think a man naturally wants to be capable to handle and protect his family. I fear not being able to provide. I am not in a position where I have to live looking over my shoulder, but I see the value in someone being able to protect themselves. No argument there. Most guys who rob homes are not looking for violence. They are hoping to not be caught and don't want to die. If they have a way out, they will most likely take it unless they are there to specifically kill you. Maybe you and your family make tons of really bad enemies that makes you need to worry like that. Most people don't. You make some of these thugs sound like they are the bravest most courageous human beings.

    I would call a long gun that fires semi automatically or at a higher rate to be an assault rifle.
    The term "assault rifle" actually refers to firearms that fire more than one round per pull of the trigger. Most recently used by anti-gun people to describe semi-auto weapons that look "scary". What sort of high rate of fire do you consider an assault rifle?

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