Do negatives matter

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  1. #1
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    Do negatives matter

    I read the post by admin and Iíve been reading different things on tut for the past couple of hours and Iím really rethinking a part of my training. I know Reps should be controlled, but am I robbing myself of gains with my tempo? For a very long time my tempo on every working set rep has been 3 second negatives, 1 second pause at the bottom, 2 second contraction or squeeze at the top of the rep. If I didnít do this Iíd be able to lift more weight or get more reps with the weight.
    what do you guys think? Should I just start using a normal controlled tempo?

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    yates stressed the importance of negitive in the rep,,
    he even went on to say how he would have a partner help him with the positive so he could take the negitive to failure , he said thats how he got his mass,,

    i also follow that style ,, ive been doing this now for a little over 2yrs,, and im 36 and i think i got some really good results,, i started this @ 170 pounds and at about %19 to %20 BF
    i am currently 205\ 208 pounds in the morning at around %15 bf (my profile pic)

    not for nothing but my workout style has made me surpass other guys at the gym ,, with cuts , size and just overall look..

    so yes i think negitive reps are lost gold if you will,, ,, and if you dont go slow on the negitive3 you are leaving alot of gainz on the table,,, that is ,if you push yourself and dont just do the same old song and dance at the gym

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    youre way of lifting seems fine ,, its stressing the body through-out the whole rage of motion , but you need to switch it up every like 3 weeks ive found or you go stangnet..

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    What you are doing is perfect. people don't need to over exaggerate the negative any longer than 3 seconds.. you already said what is solely most important "controlling".
    You know what you're doing man. Beast brings up a great point, switching things up when need be.


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    I do the same thing and when I finally get to the point that I have to up the weights I often times change exercises because Iím way stronger than my frame was built for. Too much weight for me equals injury every time.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bft84 View Post
    I read the post by admin and Iíve been reading different things on tut for the past couple of hours and Iím really rethinking a part of my training. I know Reps should be controlled, but am I robbing myself of gains with my tempo? For a very long time my tempo on every working set rep has been 3 second negatives, 1 second pause at the bottom, 2 second contraction or squeeze at the top of the rep. If I didnít do this Iíd be able to lift more weight or get more reps with the weight.
    what do you guys think? Should I just start using a normal controlled tempo?

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    When Training LIGHT and higher reps I feel the negative is vital

    When I train myself or clients moderate to heavy and explosive reps, then I don't believe it to be vital for that training style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GYMnTONIC View Post
    When Training LIGHT and higher reps I feel the negative is vital

    When I train myself or clients moderate to heavy and explosive reps, then I don't believe it to be vital for that training style.
    I agree bro. Training should be dictated in good part to personal goals.

    Most ppl hopefully realize the most damage the muscle undergoes in during the eccentric or negative phase of the rep.

    PPL shouldn't confuse "time under tension" with negatives exactly. For example, you can lift a dumbell for 10 reps taking 1 second to raise the weight (10 seconds total) or do 10 reps taking 2 seconds to raise the weight increasing the time under tension in the concentric phase (20 seconds total). The energy or "work" is now double. So the time under tension is only increased during the concentric phase with normal lowering time in the eccentric phase.

    End up? If you took only 1 second more to raise the weight or during the contraction/concentric portion...you would being doing double the work of someone else doing the same routine.

    Then if you think about how this adds up over the course of a year??

    IMO accentuating the "negative" too much too often damages the muscle too much. Which would require a lot more rest days between training. Which many probably won't get and leads to overtraining and injury.

    Negative can have their place as a training principle. Change things up and shock the muscle to stimulate growth during a plateau. But not on a regular basis.

    I think years ago, guys tried to do something whereby they tried to avoid or minimize the eccentric phase all together to allow for minimal muscle soreness/breakdown thus allowing lower recovery times and more frequent workouts and increased gains. IDK what happened with this attempt.

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    So your saying for packing on muscle I would be technically doing more work and causing more growth Slowly lifting 25lbs vs. exploding with 45lbs? Sorry you guys use too much technical Mumbo Jumbo for me. I was always told 75% of the gains come from the explosion part of a lift and 25% on the negative and control. No?



    Quote Originally Posted by Augustine5I View Post
    I agree bro. Training should be dictated in good part to personal goals.

    Most ppl hopefully realize the most damage the muscle undergoes in during the eccentric or negative phase of the rep.

    PPL shouldn't confuse "time under tension" with negatives exactly. For example, you can lift a dumbell for 10 reps taking 1 second to raise the weight (10 seconds total) or do 10 reps taking 2 seconds to raise the weight increasing the time under tension in the concentric phase (20 seconds total). The energy or "work" is now double. So the time under tension is only increased during the concentric phase with normal lowering time in the eccentric phase.

    End up? If you took only 1 second more to raise the weight or during the contraction/concentric portion...you would being doing double the work of someone else doing the same routine.

    Then if you think about how this adds up over the course of a year??

    IMO accentuating the "negative" too much too often damages the muscle too much. Which would require a lot more rest days between training. Which many probably won't get and leads to overtraining and injury.

    Negative can have their place as a training principle. Change things up and shock the muscle to stimulate growth during a plateau. But not on a regular basis.

    I think years ago, guys tried to do something whereby they tried to avoid or minimize the eccentric phase all together to allow for minimal muscle soreness/breakdown thus allowing lower recovery times and more frequent workouts and increased gains. IDK what happened with this attempt.

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    As long as your controlling the weight and not just letting it drop, your getting the most you can out of negatives. I donít think you need a specific tempo, you just need to do what works for you. Its more about your intensity than the tempo anyway, look at someone like Branch Warren, of course he has top genetics, but he still grew by just throwing the weight around because he gave 100% intensity.

    Donít think going lighter with a slower tempo will build more muscle, because it wonít. You need to lift heavy, with quality reps, and 100% intensity to build muscle optimally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BodybuilderZepp View Post
    As long as your controlling the weight and not just letting it drop, your getting the most you can out of negatives. I donít think you need a specific tempo, you just need to do what works for you. Its more about your intensity than the tempo anyway, look at someone like Branch Warren, of course he has top genetics, but he still grew by just throwing the weight around because he gave 100% intensity.

    Donít think going lighter with a slower tempo will build more muscle, because it wonít. You need to lift heavy, with quality reps, and 100% intensity to build muscle optimally.
    This right here man, long as people are controlling the weight and not just slinging it all over the place, than they are getting the benefits from the negatives.
    Now if we peel the layers back with different types of protocols and training methods that emphasize more on negatives well that's a whole nother story.
    One of my worst habits is staying stuck in work mode and rushing through my routine. For this reason particularly, I do not use any pre-workout or stims.
    Just food pre-workout, and "chill" music so I'm more in the moment and laser focused.
    Sometimes I look around the gym and I see motherfuckers swinging like pendulums, what the fuck are these dudes doing. If I put on some Billy Joel, it's damn near impossible for me to Fall Out of tempo, but put on some house music and I'm getting super sloppy.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AR-15 View Post
    So your saying for packing on muscle I would be technically doing more work and causing more growth Slowly lifting 25lbs vs. exploding with 45lbs? Sorry you guys use too much technical Mumbo Jumbo for me. I was always told 75% of the gains come from the explosion part of a lift and 25% on the negative and control. No?
    I am saying one of the top mistakes ppl can make and that I see is guys or gals will take a weight and lift too fast. There is little to no time under tension. Little stimulus.

    So if you are using 300 pounds and lifting it quickly with the time under tension at .35 seconds (less then a second) and I am doing the same weight and doing it for 1.5 seconds, I will be working a lot harder then you. After 10 reps you would be at around 3 seconds of total tension, while I would be at almost 9 seconds of muscle under tension. Extrapolate that data into what it would mean after 15 sets!

    You gave an example of different weights (25 pounds vs 45 pounds). That wasn't my premise.

    I couldn't say using a light weight for long holds will get you huge. Bc I don't believe it will bc the weight IMO is light. You can make a light weight feel "intense" by going slow, but it just isn't going to be heavy enough to make you huge.

    Also I mentioned goals. When you talk about exploding with a weight you are bringing in a speed component.

    Speed (you are referencing a measure of time) and IDK how fast you are talking, impacts power. Power equals work divided by time.

    So as I fist said in my post, if your goal is Power, then lift that way bc you will need to do that to improve. Reach your goal.

    There are a lot of studies about time under tension. Some propose you can get more hypertrophy using a lighter weight with more time under tension then using a heavier weight for less TUT. Seen some suggest raising a weight from 2 to 6 seconds. IDK bro, it's obviously what works for you. I can't believe lifting a 10 pound dumbell really slow will get my 20 inch arms. lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bft84 View Post
    I read the post by admin and Iíve been reading different things on tut for the past couple of hours and Iím really rethinking a part of my training. I know Reps should be controlled, but am I robbing myself of gains with my tempo? For a very long time my tempo on every working set rep has been 3 second negatives, 1 second pause at the bottom, 2 second contraction or squeeze at the top of the rep. If I didnít do this Iíd be able to lift more weight or get more reps with the weight.
    what do you guys think? Should I just start using a normal controlled tempo?
    I love slow negatives and static holds. I use static holds at the end when I am burnt out as a final burnout. They're fun to work in and challenging. I would use it from time to time, but no need for it to be your only tempo. I would focus on working in new workouts / different stuff before I would focus so much on tempo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CompoundLifts31 View Post
    I love slow negatives and static holds. I use static holds at the end when I am burnt out as a final burnout. They're fun to work in and challenging. I would use it from time to time, but no need for it to be your only tempo. I would focus on working in new workouts / different stuff before I would focus so much on tempo.
    My routine doesnít change. The only thing that changes is when a movement stalls and fail to add weight or reps 2 workout in a row. Iíve just always used this tempo as I try to control every variable possible and Iíve always been big on negatives. Iím wondering if I would get more growth out a normal speed controlled rep which would be a heavier load or more reps with a load as opposed to what Iíve always done which is around 6 seconds per rep. Iíve done well with my training but I like to do things as efficient and optimal as I can.

    I appreciate all the responses and you guys taking time to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bft84 View Post
    My routine doesnít change. The only thing that changes is when a movement stalls and fail to add weight or reps 2 workout in a row. Iíve just always used this tempo as I try to control every variable possible and Iíve always been big on negatives. Iím wondering if I would get more growth out a normal speed controlled rep which would be a heavier load or more reps with a load as opposed to what Iíve always done which is around 6 seconds per rep. Iíve done well with my training but I like to do things as efficient and optimal as I can.

    I appreciate all the responses and you guys taking time to do so.
    Your routine should be ALWAYS changing. Thats a big mistake.
    Just my 2 cents.

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