PCT question on HCG

[card]

Hi guys,

I had my first ever cycle (test + deca), which I kinda fucked up my PCT, because I listened to an expert. After that I kinda crashed, got my bloodwork done to see that my test levels are on the low side.

2 months ago I did another PCT, this time with some more guidance from another person, which was made of

HCG for three week, three times a week (5000UIs weekly), Clomid another 3 weeks after that (150 first day, 100 two weeks, 50 the rest). Got my bloodwork done, test is raised a bit but its still low 11,01 nmol/l

My question is, I was reading through PCT here on forums and around the web, but I learned that you really should not use HCG too much, because it can shut you down if your body gets used to it. So now its literally month and half since I stoped HCG and I think I would give it another shot.

Is it safe to go on another PCT as soon ? Is it safe to use HCG so soon? Would any gurus on this topic consider it okay, or not? Can anyone help me on this?

Thanks a lot!

 

[GYMnTONIC]

Get on clomid 25-50mgs a day for a month and then stay on 25mgs for another 2-3 months.

Stop, wait a month, test your levels then.

If you are not returned, you face either staying on clomid which is firstline HRT nowadays. Or you can consider Testosterone injections for HRT, etc.

The fact is that once you cycle, even one cycle can permanently lower your baseline T levels. So if you were sitting at a cool 700 nanos, ran a cycle and months or year later at 500, thats just part of the game.

Studies prove that even 1 cycle of AAS can permanently lower your baseline sir.

 

[card]

Thanks for the reply, so in your opinion, I should not go for HCG with adjusted dosage and just skip it? Is there any reason?

 

[GYMnTONIC]

Thanks for the reply, so in your opinion, I should not go for HCG with adjusted dosage and just skip it? Is there any reason?

Hcg is suppressive.

Clomid is not.

Clomid is the proper drug to use for PCT. And the old school pct for 4 weeks is garbage.

Having worked in the field and w dozens of endos, I assure you that it takes 2-12 months on average to return natural HPTA aka testosterone production.

Hcg can jump start PCT but imo should only be attempted by experienced users.

Also triptorelin is another injection many men think is ideal for PCT but my clients and I never use it. Reason why is unlike most people telling you to use it, I have seen labs in actual patients.

Users may test in range 1-2 even up to 3 mouth later. But then the user in 100% of labs crashes aka it is a temporary or false reading. It is not returning HPTA , rather showing elevated levels for long durations only.

This is not recovery.

Recovery is using Clomid, returning your HPTA aka your natural levels and then sustaining those levels or very very close to those levels long term.

If you didn't draw labs prior to cycle , then you have no way to know if you are close to true baseline.

At that point you would a for a "standard" or acceptable level.

Doctors will tell you a 35 year old male at 350 n/dL is acceptable.

I will tell you far more experienced it is not.de

My goal is to keep all my male clients at a 700-1100 n/dL level if and when off cycle. The standard level of an 18-21 year old.

It is safe,effective, will give you fat loss, muscle building, sex drive, everything God made a man to function as.

Why accept less?

Clomid for PCT. Nolva at even 10mgs ed alongside it compliments it well.

 

[card]

Thank you for your insight. This is way out of my scope. One thing though. Im off clomid for two, maybe three weeks now. Should i just start as you said, or should I again initiate few weeks with higher dosage?

 

[GYMnTONIC]

Thank you for your insight. This is way out of my scope. One thing though. Im off clomid for two, maybe three weeks now. Should i just start as you said, or should I again initiate few weeks with higher dosage?

Being off doesn't matter.

Think of it like this you are a patient at a hospital and you show up with a half attached limb, or heart attack. You fix what is happening at the moment, you don't get to recover what happened prior. You start and work on resolving it immediately.

I would start month 1 at say 50mgs a day. Increase water intake and get on some liver support. If you need to buy it you can buy some LIV52 from me for dirt cheap or NAC even. Both are great
www.GYMnTONIC.com

Once you do the month, then the following month go to 25mgs ED>

If you have NOLVA run it at 10mgs ed the whole time

Watch for estrogen spikes if you dont use the nolva. Puffy nipples, water retention, etc, are first signs. If you are on clomid and your Estrogen levels become elevated you will need to use an AI like exemestane or again, go with the Nolva.

I would run these for several months, but again, make sure you have some liver support bc ANY oral for that long is gonna stress the liver to a degree

Do this right.

I apologize for hogging the thread, but no one else answered.

Anyone else is free to chime in with their ideas.

Im just letting you know what would be done in a PROPER medical center, whether it be an endocrinologist, urologist or other doctor. This is how they would successfully treat you as a patient.

 

[Skinnyguy180]

Thanks for the reply, so in your opinion, I should not go for HCG with adjusted dosage and just skip it? Is there any reason?

HCG will actually suppress your natural testosterone. It would help you balls produce sperm again but wont jump start you HTPA. Clomid does that.

Hcg and HMG a are what your HTPA secretes when you body gets a signal that the testosterone. If you are injecting that your HTPA will not be doing its job and suppressed.

 

[card]

Okay guys, thank you both very much. You have been very helpful.

 

[GYMnTONIC]

FYI you can also use HCG as HRT. In studies though they were using high dosages, upwards of 5000iu 2x a week, which is super high and will damage the testes eventually.

But you can also use lower dose HCG daily and it will spike and maintain testosterone levels high enough to be in a natural range.

Study Pubmed articles sir, that is what I have done for 25+ years on top of working in the field. There is a ton of free knowledge out there.

 

[Hellcat]

Get on clomid 25-50mgs a day for a month and then stay on 25mgs for another 2-3 months.

Stop, wait a month, test your levels then.

If you are not returned, you face either staying on clomid which is firstline HRT nowadays. Or you can consider Testosterone injections for HRT, etc.

The fact is that once you cycle, even one cycle can permanently lower your baseline T levels. So if you were sitting at a cool 700 nanos, ran a cycle and months or year later at 500, thats just part of the game.

Studies prove that even 1 cycle of AAS can permanently lower your baseline sir.

My doc has me on Clomid HRT and it's been successful so far, clomid 50mg 3 days a week.
Just wondering if there is any benefit to injectable vs clomid

As for the HCG, I only utilize it at end of cycles to restart the testes before beginning PCT, makes my PCT go much smoother.

 

[card]

My doc has me on Clomid HRT and it's been successful so far, clomid 50mg 3 days a week.
Just wondering if there is any benefit to injectable vs clomid

I would say the main difference between test/clomid is, that with test you are supplying something externally, meaning you are lowering your natural production.
Clomid blocks estrogen and kickstarts your body to make more on its own.

So I have been taking 50mg clomid + 10mg nolva for a month straight and I didnt really feel a thing. For last 3 days, I tried to up the dosage to 100mg clomid + 10 mg nolva, the difference is stagering.

Question is, how to approach this now?

 

[GYMnTONIC]

My doc has me on Clomid HRT and it's been successful so far, clomid 50mg 3 days a week.
Just wondering if there is any benefit to injectable vs clomid

As for the HCG, I only utilize it at end of cycles to restart the testes before beginning PCT, makes my PCT go much smoother.

The issue with clomid at 50mgs is some men complain of nasty moods, acne and other sides

If you aren't having those issues, fanstastic

Clomid will assist in keeping your naturally occuring levels higher then normal

Injectable test will keep your Testosterone levels higher then "YOUR" normal, synthetically

Injectable testosterone is ALWAYS superior, but it also depends on the individuals desires

I have a ton of clients who want to be "natural" and they want to try and return their natural HPTA. It can happen but doesn't always happen. Steroids can wreck your ability to naturally produce

Take myself for instance. A long term AAS and HRT user. I can come off and with clomid I might be in the 500s. Why the hell would I wanna stay at 500nanos when I have experienced 10,000 n/dL

Now the 10K is not safe for organs, etc...but my point is this. You must decide what you want.

I personally prefer to keep myself and HRT clients around the 1K mark at all times.. It is safe and effective. Why not?