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High dosages test vs low dosages for better gains?

MONSTRO

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I see alot of people using and abusing testosterone dosages and also abusing AI´s to combate sides , high estrogen and water retention. But you know AI kill gains of cycles because you need estrogen to grow muscle . This looks like the person that uses high dosages trenbolone and need cabergoline , tamox, AI , gaba, melatonin, xanax to sleep to combate or reduce the sides of the trenbolone . Why not reduce dosage for the sweat spot you can handle ? Of course . I always prefer more drugs using less dosages than using higher dosages of one drug only.
And testosterone is the same , try to find your sweat spot on test dosage that you dont aromatize to much and run it without any AI ( less drugs , less stress on liver, less money expend , more health ).

What do you think give better gains ?

500mg test without AI

or

1500mg test week with 1 adex ED

Monstro
 
Definitely finding the sweet spot without the use of serms/AI would be my choice vs high mg everything. But, the gains are definitely attractive to guys; just jump on a high mg and use the ai/Serms to control sides. I would guess that the younger a person is harder it would be to use low mg. But; the more experienced, older athlete who wants longevity in the sport/lifestyle always will choose the low mg ; better diet , and supplements to gain slower over time.

Max
 
I’m a newbie but with no diet changed. Taking test from 500 no AI to 750 .5 adex 3x a week, it was a whole new ball game as far as growth . I think I’ll take the 750 with AI. At least for now
 
I disagree with the tren. Tren is a monster of its own

I've taken 600mg or tren with same sides as 200mg of tren per week. Anything lower then 200mg of tren I felt it wasn't worth pinning. Cost vs sides vs gains.

But with the high test, reason for high test is you're (younger generation) brain washed with these famous body builders taking a gram plus weekly and you see that then think you need it too. My sweet spot is 750/800mg of test when on cycle, when cruising I sit right around 250mg
 
I also avoid AI/Serms ... but also like Mast as it allows estrogen to remain high, but reduces the sides. In 15+ years, I've never ran high test (over 800mg or so), but even at my higher doses, a bit of Mast dries out any estrogen sides and keeps libido in range - while allowing higher estrogen to get all the benefits. If I were younger and wanted to run 1-2G of test, I'd certainly up the Mast to find the sweet spot.
 
What is the highest you let your estradiol go with no AI?

I see alot of people using and abusing testosterone dosages and also abusing AI´s to combate sides , high estrogen and water retention. But you know AI kill gains of cycles because you need estrogen to grow muscle . This looks like the person that uses high dosages trenbolone and need cabergoline , tamox, AI , gaba, melatonin, xanax to sleep to combate or reduce the sides of the trenbolone . Why not reduce dosage for the sweat spot you can handle ? Of course . I always prefer more drugs using less dosages than using higher dosages of one drug only.
And testosterone is the same , try to find your sweat spot on test dosage that you dont aromatize to much and run it without any AI ( less drugs , less stress on liver, less money expend , more health ).

What do you think give better gains ?

500mg test without AI

or

1500mg test week with 1 adex ED

Monstro
 
I also avoid AI/Serms ... but also like Mast as it allows estrogen to remain high, but reduces the sides. In 15+ years, I've never ran high test (over 800mg or so), but even at my higher doses, a bit of Mast dries out any estrogen sides and keeps libido in range - while allowing higher estrogen to get all the benefits. If I were younger and wanted to run 1-2G of test, I'd certainly up the Mast to find the sweet spot.

I am with you on this.
 
I’m a newbie but with no diet changed. Taking test from 500 no AI to 750 .5 adex 3x a week, it was a whole new ball game as far as growth . I think I’ll take the 750 with AI. At least for now

I’ve been at this off and on for a long time but the older I’ve gotten I tend to lean towards a more conservative to moderate way of thinking concerning dosages. I’m not opposed to higher dosages if that’s what you need but as for me I’m settling in the sweet spot. I tend to be fairly prone to estrogenic side effects so I do have to utilize an AI at times but as minimally as possible. Currently I’m also at 750 test per week, 300 npp, and .5mg adex 2-3 times. There’s just no sense in having to take more drugs to counteract other drugs for me personally. Small amounts of an AI is as far as I want to go with it. That being said I don’t see something like trestolone being on my bucket list. Makes my tits tremble in fear
 
This conservative dosing only became really popular lately. I myself dont even go as high as 500 any more just because Im getting older and I dont see much more of a benefit but if you would have asked this question ten years ago with people like swiper on here being fucking massive posting about 6 grams of test you would have gotten completely different answers. everyone wanted to hit a gram of test at least. personally i dont really see the difference in running 500 mgs of 4 different compounds vs 2gs of test, when thinking about sides... Unless your only talking about estrogen... I mean mast would make me bald as fuck. Deca is doing to make me bloated as all hell.. Dont even get me started on tren... I guess primo is side friendly... but lipids are going to be side ways no matter what... I mean maybe you find a magical combo of 2 grams of various drugs that some how doesnt give you sides but that seems unlikely.
 
Test treats me well. Even at 1100-1200 wk my bp is a non issue. Adex doesn't help. Terrible AI. Aromasin all day.
300mg sust/100mg mast/100mg deca M,W,F and 12.5mg aromasin 4 times a week. Of course 5iu overdosed gh and soon slin again so... 😁
No acne, no deca dick, no bph thanks to cialis and aromasin. Having your thyroid properly balanced or in my case legit medicated makes all the difference in sides.
 
IML Gear Cream!
Test treats me well. Even at 1100-1200 wk my bp is a non issue. Adex doesn't help. Terrible AI. Aromasin all day.
300mg sust/100mg mast/100mg deca M,W,F and 12.5mg aromasin 4 times a week. Of course 5iu overdosed gh and soon slin again so... 😁
No acne, no deca dick, no bph thanks to cialis and aromasin. Having your thyroid properly balanced or in my case legit medicated makes all the difference in sides.

Having said that after a long break i won't dive into a big dose. After just trt dose for quite a while i only bumped to 300mg, then 450, then 600. At least 8 weeks between each. No need to go big when less works first
 
I disagree with the tren. Tren is a monster of its own

I've taken 600mg or tren with same sides as 200mg of tren per week. Anything lower then 200mg of tren I felt it wasn't worth pinning. Cost vs sides vs gains.

But with the high test, reason for high test is you're (younger generation) brain washed with these famous body builders taking a gram plus weekly and you see that then think you need it too. My sweet spot is 750/800mg of test when on cycle, when cruising I sit right around 250mg

If you one day take real parabolan you dont need more than 3ml week , i know some guys cant handle 2ml week . If you use real trenbolone 600mg is alottttttt
 
If you one day take real parabolan you dont need more than 3ml week , i know some guys cant handle 2ml week . If you use real trenbolone 600mg is alottttttt

The tren I brew is spot on, I buy from a well known raw source so knowing if it's "real" isn't in question.
I ran both tren e and a with the same sides at 600mg, also ran the same batch at 200mg, same sides on both Intakes but different cycles.

Tren hex I haven't tried yet, also same source. I can't justify the cost of it yet for me to dabble but I might try it next cycle with the tri tren I brewed. Total mg is 200mg, tren a 50mg, tren hex 50mg and tren e 100mg. Should give me a good feel for it
 
The tren I brew is spot on, I buy from a well known raw source so knowing if it's "real" isn't in question.
I ran both tren e and a with the same sides at 600mg, also ran the same batch at 200mg, same sides on both Intakes but different cycles.

Tren hex I haven't tried yet, also same source. I can't justify the cost of it yet for me to dabble but I might try it next cycle with the tri tren I brewed. Total mg is 200mg, tren a 50mg, tren hex 50mg and tren e 100mg. Should give me a good feel for it

Go with real tren hexa only and you will see , less sides and more results
 
test without ai

then stack another compound on top that doesnt aromatize as your main anabolic
 
Test treats me well. Even at 1100-1200 wk my bp is a non issue. Adex doesn't help. Terrible AI. Aromasin all day.
300mg sust/100mg mast/100mg deca M,W,F and 12.5mg aromasin 4 times a week. Of course 5iu overdosed gh and soon slin again so...
No acne, no deca dick, no bph thanks to cialis and aromasin. Having your thyroid properly balanced or in my case legit medicated makes all the difference in sides.

What’s bph?

So what’s so bad about armidex? What kind of symptoms do you look for before starting an AI? Or do you just run the aromasin off the bat as preventative like you said?
 
If you're not on a gram of Test a week, you're basically natural.
 
What’s bph?

So what’s so bad about armidex? What kind of symptoms do you look for before starting an AI? Or do you just run the aromasin off the bat as preventative like you said?

BPH - benign prostate hyperplasia

Arimidex and aromasin work by completing different methods. Arimidex can shit all over your lipids also.
I run an ai because i know i need one. Things like mood, water, dick sensitivity ect, all dictate how i adjust the dose or frequency
 
What’s bph?

So what’s so bad about armidex? What kind of symptoms do you look for before starting an AI? Or do you just run the aromasin off the bat as preventative like you said?

Arimidex is another drug with sides and used for what? just to reduce sides from something you can reduce the dosage and dont use adex saveng money and health. It increases colesterol, hard on joints , and reducing estrogen to much kill your gains
 
Arimidex is another drug with sides and used for what? just to reduce sides from something you can reduce the dosage and dont use adex saveng money and health. It increases colesterol, hard on joints , and reducing estrogen to much kill your gains

Is aromasin ok to use ??
 
Get Shredded!
Is aromasin ok to use ??

Wondering the same… still don’t foresee me needing an AI at this point since I’m almost half way through my cycle and have no sides, but I did just throw some Dbol into the mix and from what I’ve gathered Dbol converts very strongly, so who knows… think I’m going to have to get a bottle of aromasin just incase after reading this thread…
 
Wondering the same… still don’t foresee me needing an AI at this point since I’m almost half way through my cycle and have no sides, but I did just throw some Dbol into the mix and from what I’ve gathered Dbol converts very strongly, so who knows… think I’m going to have to get a bottle of aromasin just incase after reading this thread…

If you need the AI you need the AI. Arimidex, like Letrozole, is a non-suicidal aromatase inhibitor so the risk of estrogen rebound is there, which is why people feel that Aromasin is superior.

I guess the moral to the story is that you should try to keep testosterone at a "sweet spot" where you're seeing the maximum gains possible while eliminating the need for an AI (the more test in your system, the more estrogen in your system) and then utilize other non-aromatizing anabolics as well to carry some of the weight (these other non-aromatizing anabolics can also eliminate the need for an AI, like mast or primo). But regardless, if you're seeing estrogen sides, then take the AI. It's all a lot easier said than done and requires blood work and trial and error to dial in completely, I'm still figuring it out myself and different dosages and compounds introduced changes the equation yet again.

Keep the AI and SERMs on hand and as far as the trial and error period goes, I would lean more to the use the AI first and then dial it back as you figure it out because in my opinion a little lethargy and dry joints is better than gyno. That's just my opinion though.
 
If you need the AI you need the AI. Arimidex, like Letrozole, is a non-suicidal aromatase inhibitor so the risk of estrogen rebound is there, which is why people feel that Aromasin is superior.

I guess the moral to the story is that you should try to keep testosterone at a "sweet spot" where you're seeing the maximum gains possible while eliminating the need for an AI (the more test in your system, the more estrogen in your system) and then utilize other non-aromatizing anabolics as well to carry some of the weight (these other non-aromatizing anabolics can also eliminate the need for an AI, like mast or primo). But regardless, if you're seeing estrogen sides, then take the AI. It's all a lot easier said than done and requires blood work and trial and error to dial in completely, I'm still figuring it out myself and different dosages and compounds introduced changes the equation yet again.

Keep the AI and SERMs on hand and as far as the trial and error period goes, I would lean more to the use the AI first and then dial it back as you figure it out because in my opinion a little lethargy and dry joints is better than gyno. That's just my opinion though.

Rebound gyno isn't a thing for me but still why id never use adex. If the spca commercials are making me emotional or my dick sensitivity falls off, time for more ai. Always take it with deca cause obviously when you mediate the estro sides you have less prolactin sides. Deca without an ai for my test = bad low back acne. With it zero
 
Rebound gyno isn't a thing for me but still why id never use adex. If the spca commercials are making me emotional or my dick sensitivity falls off, time for more ai. Always take it with deca cause obviously when you mediate the estro sides you have less prolactin sides. Deca without an ai for my test = bad low back acne. With it zero

You’re serious about the emotional bit right? I’m trying to get a good idea of what to look out for…

What do you mean your sick sensitivity falls off? Like you feel numb?

Since starting my cycle I’m hard all the time. My sex drive was annoyingly high before the cycle ( even with lower than average test) and now it’s through the god damn roof. Would be all fine and dandy if the mrs was in the same level….
 
Yeah im serious about all of it
 
You’re serious about the emotional bit right? I’m trying to get a good idea of what to look out for…

What do you mean your sick sensitivity falls off? Like you feel numb?

Since starting my cycle I’m hard all the time. My sex drive was annoyingly high before the cycle ( even with lower than average test) and now it’s through the god damn roof. Would be all fine and dandy if the mrs was in the same level….
I ran a gram of Test on protocol to get bloods, thus could not use an AI but had to bail on that idea after about 3 wks.. had to jump on AI. Shedding tears during horror flicks was the 1st sign..itchy nips was another. You have to get bloods to really know, but there are "feels" that over time and experience you will learn when your e2 is out of whack. If you run gear, you need to do bloods or you're a fool, plain and simple.
 
Some people can take a gram or more of test with no AI and be fine. Other need AI on 250mg of test.

I believe higher dose combined with AI will ultimately lead to a higher level of gains over time, because estrogen doesn't need to be as ridiculously elevated to maximize gains, the way testosterone does. So if you can keep your estrogen at a tolerable level with AI such as 30ng-50-or maybe even 100ng, while continuously increasing the test level that would probably be ideal.
 
Rebound gyno isn't a thing for me but still why id never use adex. If the spca commercials are making me emotional or my dick sensitivity falls off, time for more ai. Always take it with deca cause obviously when you mediate the estro sides you have less prolactin sides. Deca without an ai for my test = bad low back acne. With it zero

Tell me about this rebound gyno…
 
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