Pandora's Box.....Test or No Test

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  1. #1
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    Pandora's Box.....Test or No Test

    Yeah I know the Golden Rule:...Test always as a base...

    But in the 50+ yrs of guys cycling,it pops up...I feel yes it should always be included...BUT I see guys doing a Deca cycle only or other odd runs with success..

    Years ago at 41...I ran a moderate low dose of Tren E(100mgs) with a mix of 3 esters of EQ(300) and Dbol(50mgs)
    Not only did I get shredded at 177lbs...but strong as Hell..set all my PR's on that cycle...4 reps on incline...315..

    So something was working and really damn good..I have always been lucky at low to moderate doses but that was one Hell of a run...about 12 wks if I remember..

    So any of you guys ever done any cycles without Test??
    Pro's???
    Cons...???

    Of all the cycles I've ran...(12-15)..that one stands out...

  2. #2
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    Clive Mossmoon's Avatar


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    Without Estradiol, and DHT, I don't feel great at all. I accidentally did half a deca-only cycle several decades ago -- it started as test + deca + dbol for the first 4 weeks (old school cycle) but the test was Mexican Tornel that was underdosed, so I ended up using all the test in the first 6 weeks and finished the last 7 weeks on only 600 mg/wk of deca. I felt bad, the strength gains were modest compared to deca + test, though some of the missing strength gains was the water that d-bol brought. It's difficult to say anything about the size gains as I was drying out from the water the test + d-bol had given, so I couldn't tell how much was normal post cycle loss on wet compounds, vs/ how much size deca alone was giving me.


    In theory trestalone can be used instead of test at low doses 2.5 + mg / day and will keep the body mostly happy. Trest does not provide DHT and the body's natural test production will be suppressed so you'd need to add in a bit of primo or masteron then you could use whatever other compound on top of that: EQ, nandralone, etc.


    Are you simply curious, or do you not like some of the effects of test? I always add it as it works, makes me feel great, and is cheap.

  3. #3
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    No
    Just wanted to see if anyone has tried a non test cycle..pros vs cons
    It's been bounced around from time to time and also it's a Kinda carved in stone theory that has been slightly challenged..

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by zionoir626 View Post
    Yeah I know the Golden Rule:...Test always as a base...

    But in the 50+ yrs of guys cycling,it pops up...I feel yes it should always be included...BUT I see guys doing a Deca cycle only or other odd runs with success..

    Years ago at 41...I ran a moderate low dose of Tren E(100mgs) with a mix of 3 esters of EQ(300) and Dbol(50mgs)
    Not only did I get shredded at 177lbs...but strong as Hell..set all my PR's on that cycle...4 reps on incline...315..

    So something was working and really damn good..I have always been lucky at low to moderate doses but that was one Hell of a run...about 12 wks if I remember..

    So any of you guys ever done any cycles without Test??
    Pro's???
    Cons...???

    Of all the cycles I've ran...(12-15)..that one stands out...
    That cycle overlaps with old school cycling. Dianabol is almost a test replacer and EQ does really well in me personally. Maybe my personal physiology but I have run it solo in the past with good results, good sex drive etc. Mostly test is in there to fulfill physiologic needs for it and all it's natural metabolites including estrogens, DHT and many intermediates that include neurosteroids. It could be that between all the compounds in your cycle you are hitting the major requirements or supplying adequate replacements. Also, I feel that low dose trenbolone is underrated. That stuff is so strong it makes a noticeable difference even at 100-150 mg/w and at low dose the sides are minimal. It doesn't work like that for everyone line tren beasts that need lots and lots but for others it makes the compound usable and much more comfortable.

  5. #5
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    Some good points I had overlooked..That is what I was looking for..also Tren with no so called Test frees receptors..that could have also contributed to the strong effect of a low Tren dose..

    Something was working with the amount of wieght I was pushing at 177lbs..Good insight Brother
    Even this old worn out Dog can still learn..

  6. #6
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    I've watched some of Taeian Clark's youtube videos recently and his approach toward cycling is geared toward guys wanting to avoid hairloss. He claims they make great gains, have great libidos, etc. He says that the only reason it doesn't work for some ppl is because of low e2 for which 10-15mg of dbol per day will provide you, or maybe 50-75mg of test per week.

    This sounds really cool in theory, but one thing I notice about Taeian's demeanor in all of his videos is that he always says "how tired" he is. He's not a great speaker and stutters alot. "UH UHH" as though his synapses are slow at making connections between thoughts and memories. He almost seems mixed up at times, while still having some knowledge. It's clear he just does not have the androgenic and e2 pro-brain health effect of sufficient testosterone levels.

    When you watch someone with optimal androgen levels speak, they are confident and quick thinking - no matter how little sleep they've gotten. That's how I feel on atleast 250mg of test.

    I don't know about you, but I like my mental clarity. It makes me feel confident and smart while also comforting others to know I'm "with the program" (at jobs etc). I'm not gonna run deca only, only to end up like Taeian appearing all insecure and jumbled with his words, from having insufficient androgens in his system.

    I use Nizoral shampoo and rogaine and I won't hesitate to pop some finasteride pills too if I decided to venture into the 750-1g zone of test. Fuck not using test.
    Last edited by ArgonCoagulator; 06-02-2021 at 05:44 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycomann View Post
    ... Also, I feel that low dose trenbolone is underrated. That stuff is so strong it makes a noticeable difference even at 100-150 mg/w and at low dose the sides are minimal. It doesn't work like that for everyone line tren beasts that need lots and lots but for others it makes the compound usable and much more comfortable.

    I haven't considered low-dose tren only cycles -- very interesting. The last time I had tren was (slightly-expired) Parabolan in the early 2000's and I never had enough then to do anything with it. I'm too old for tren nowadays, so someone else will have to weigh in on their experiences with tren only.

  8. #8
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    Maybe not...
    Tren at low dose has little to no sides
    Did I trip on something not thought of..??

    Yes EQ and Dbol may have given me just enough Test to make it all click..??

    I have nothing to back this...no this=this...sorry..All I do know is that Cycle was Awesome without Test..
    A wiser...less complicated mind might figure it out..but not mine..

    The carved in so-called stone...Test always..is Questionable..!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by zionoir626 View Post
    Maybe not...
    Tren at low dose has little to no sides
    Did I trip on something not thought of..??

    Yes EQ and Dbol may have given me just enough Test to make it all click..??

    I have nothing to back this...no this=this...sorry..All I do know is that Cycle was Awesome without Test..
    A wiser...less complicated mind might figure it out..but not mine..

    The carved in so-called stone...Test always..is Questionable..!
    Test is what makes a man a man brother- now i'm no chemist or dr or anything close, and u don't need a gram a week, or anything close, but u got to have SOME. I will never do any cycle w/o test- even if it's just a smidge- And the reason is i know how i feel w/o it- and i ain't going there bro! Guess i could have just gave u the short answer like Argon-Fuck not using test-lol (oh, and i do have a vial of the golden nectar- thinking about experimenting w/ a very low dose in the near future) (man that shit is pretty!)

  10. #10
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    Yeah that amber nectar of the Gods
    Lock that shit up and give Vis' wife the key

    That shit will call out to you at night...when no one's home
    Hell I honestly think the kind Vis uses...loads itself in the syringe...right by the night stand..and says..."Hey,bitch...pin me."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clive Mossmoon View Post
    I haven't considered low-dose tren only cycles -- very interesting. The last time I had tren was (slightly-expired) Parabolan in the early 2000's and I never had enough then to do anything with it. I'm too old for tren nowadays, so someone else will have to weigh in on their experiences with tren only.
    I wasn't inferring tren only at low dose but as a component. Test base and EQ works for me. Then add in Tren Ace at 30 mg EOD in a slin pin. It adds a kick. I won't keep it on more than 4-4 weeks and treat it sort of how people use orals these days. I've also done a mix of NPP, Tren A and test at 150/150/250 a week. For me that dose level of the combination worked nicely. It only 550 mg/w but it works like more with the tren in there. But I keep things low end mostly. It's healthier and I have the mass and muscle memory now so there is really no need to crank up the RPMs.

  12. #12
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    Yep
    I love effective low doses...
    Running...Test 200...DHB 150...NPP. 150
    one wk in and it's kicking great

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