Nandrolone decanoate "long ester" is most efficient for muscle growth over NPP

View Poll Results: Your preference Decanoate or NPP

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • Nandrolone Decanoate

    6 46.15%
  • Nandrolone phenylpropionate

    3 23.08%
  • I like both

    4 30.77%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25
  1. #1
    Team supervisor P.S.L.
    SUPER MOD
    Vision's Avatar


    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Anabolic Erudite
    Posts
    20,366

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,679
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,584
    Thanked in
    5,308 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    Nandrolone decanoate "long ester" is most efficient for muscle growth over NPP

    Nandrolone decanoate "long ester" is most efficient for muscle growth over NPP

    Nandrolone at its most efficient
    Chemical athletes who want to use nandrolone to build up their muscle mass are best off choosing a preparation with a) the longest ester possible, b) the highest concentration possible and c) injecting it in their gluteus muscle instead of in their shoulders. This according to a 1997 study published by andrologists at the University of Sydney in the Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics.




    Study
    The researchers did an experiment with 23 healthy, non-obese men aged between 18 and 40. They divided the men up into 4 groups and injected each group with a different nandrolone preparation. All preparations contained 100 mg nandrolone.
    Then the researchers measured the amount of nandrolone in the men's blood each day for the next 32 days.

    Injection sites
    The first group were given an injection of 100 mg nandrolone phenylpropionate [structural formula shown above] in their buttock. Nandrolone phenyl propionate used to be an ingredient in Organon's Durabolin, and is now found in UG preparations. Phenylpropionate is an ester that does not remain in the blood as long as decanoate. The 100 mg was in an ampoule of 4ml groundnut oil.
    The second group got the same kind of injection, but containing nandrolone decanoate, the steroid in Deca-Durabolin.
    The third group also got an injection containing 100 mg nandrolone decanoate in the buttocks, but this time the nandrolone was concentrated in 1 ml groundnut oil.
    And finally, the fourth group were injected with 100 mg nandrolone decanoate, dissolved in 1 ml groundnut oil, in the shoulder muscle.





    Results
    Nandrolone phenylpropionate gives a rapid peak in the blood, but the peak subsides after 4-5 days. Nandrolone decanoate doesn't cause a peak, but remains present for much longer in the blood.
    More nandrolone enters the blood if you inject it in a more concentrated form: 1 ml instead of 4 ml.
    Injecting into the buttocks results in more nandrolone in the blood than injecting into the shoulders.
    In the table below the shaded part shows the total amount of nandrolone that shows up in the blood after four separate injections.
    Look at the 'area under the curve'.

    Sponsor
    The research was partly financed by "Organon" Australia

    Source:
    J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1997 Apr; 281 (1): 93-102.

    Pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics of Nandrolone Esters in Oil Vehicle: Effects of Ester, Injection Site and Injection Volume

    Charles F. Minto, Christopher Howe, Susan Wishart, Ann J. Conway and David J. Handelsman

    Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics April 1997, 281 (1) 93-102;
    Abstract
    We studied healthy men who underwent blood sampling for plasma nandrolone, testosterone and inhibin measurements before and for 32 days after a single i.m. injection of 100 mg of nandrolone ester in arachis oil. Twenty-three men were randomized into groups receiving nandrolone phenylpropionate (group 1, n = 7) or nandrolone decanoate (group 2, n = 6) injected into the gluteal muscle in 4 ml of arachis oil vehicle or nandrolone decanoate in 1 ml of arachis oil vehicle injected into either the gluteal (group 3, n = 5) or deltoid (group 4,n = 5) muscles. Plasma nandrolone, testosterone and inhibin concentrations were analyzed by a mixed-effects indirect response model. Plasma nandrolone concentrations were influenced (P < .001) by different esters and injection sites, with higher and earlier peaks with the phenylpropionate ester, compared with the decanoate ester. After nandrolone decanoate injection, the highest bioavailability and peak nandrolone levels were observed with the 1-ml gluteal injection. Plasma testosterone concentrations were also influenced (P < .001) by the ester and injection site, with the most rapid, but briefest, suppression being due to the phenylpropionate ester, whereas the most sustained suppression was achieved with the 1-ml gluteal injection. Plasma inhibin concentrations were also significantly influenced by injection volume and site, with the lowest nadir occurring after the nandrolone decanoate 1-ml gluteal injection. Thus, the bioavailability and physiological effects of a nandrolone ester in an oil vehicle are greatest when the ester is injected in a small (1 ml vs. 4 ml) volume and into the glutealvs. deltoid muscle. We conclude that the side-chain ester and the injection site and volume influence the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of nandrolone esters in an oil vehicle in men.


  2. #2
    Team supervisor P.S.L.
    SUPER MOD
    Vision's Avatar


    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Anabolic Erudite
    Posts
    20,366

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,679
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,584
    Thanked in
    5,308 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    How one same ester effects users differently

    Bonus read -

    How one same "ester" effects users differently

    Recently I've noticed the topic about the usage of 1 particular ester yielding different results in users..
    Or, others claiming one ester to be Superior to the next.. This is all individual based on ones static system of checks/loops, no two individuals are the same..
    This is why people argue that cypionate is much more potent than enanthate,
    as this is a fragile argument at best and makes little sense,
    as your muscles/receptors are only recognizing free bi0hormone no matter what the ester that was utilized to deploy the parenting hormone!

    These are great questions & a worthwhile topic, as there's some real truth behind this

    Let's begin with the expression of a single hormones yielding an opposite effect - rather than a positive "smooth" response to the hormone as some individuals claim/experience..
    An appropriate example to begin with would be that of an alcoholic...

    Why? Because of Genetics, I'll explain!


    Everyone posses different gene expression, with enzymes, protein bonds, and so on..
    (Enzymes are known to catalyze more then 5k biochemical types)..
    Yet our bodies posses inhibitors and activator molecules that can greatly effect the activity,
    by increasing or decreasing hormonal actives..
    Now, that of an alcoholic, it's a genetic predisposition (same applies for particular endocrines with sensitive users concerning AAS) in which one posses a group of particular enzymes that metabolize alcohol much differently compared to other individuals,
    thus the effects will be much greater, and more detrimental in some individuals over the next..(Different metabolization)

    Now, let's compare this to the hormones!

    (Example) Testosterone can have 3 roles
    1) Being testosterone as it's primary function..
    2) Converting into DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite/androgen)..
    3)Converting into estrogen


    Here you see this effect differs greatly by individual instances, as genetics, age or even ethnicity (in some cases),
    or even sex may be a factor, whether one has a greater presence of aromatase enzymes, or even a deficiency..
    Hormones/esters have various biosynthetic pathways occurring in the endocrine,
    some either or before reaching their target tissue(to control plasma levels or active compounds),
    or at times after termination of their actions (inactivation and elimination)..
    However many of hormones and esters are metabolized within their target tissue,
    in which a complex interplay between activation and inactivation mechanisms serve to regulate the specificity and the amplitude of the hormonal response..

    This is why "singular ester" hormone treatment is NOT designed as a one size fits all therapy...
    Just an FYI: There's two main types of enzymes that act in the cleaving process of the ester in which activate the hormone...
    These 2 particular "Enzymes" are esterases & hydrolysate.. These come along and cleave pieces of the ester off the hormone,
    thereby releasing the active chemical (parenting steroid hormone) and allowing it to do its job (ultimately muscle building/tissue via protein synthesis, positive nitrogen balance and so on )...
    Now in the bloodstream which testosterone and blood born nutrients and substances circulate is recognized as the "medium".
    These enzymes circulate in the medium and directly affect the release of "active" hormone in the bloodstream by ester cleavage, thus exerting different expression per individuals, trigger a chute of cellular interaction at receptor sites that will differ from one to the next..

    People need to remember that hormones are "chemical messengers" that rely messages to cells that display specific receptors for each hormone and respond to the signaling.. Depending on the ester and the individuals metabolization ratio the hormone can/may make changes directly to a cell, by changing the genes that are activated, or by making changes indirectly to a cell by stimulating other signaling pathways inside a specific cell group that is effected and effect other processes, thus this can "initiate" an intracellular cascade of events..

    This is why the "same/singular hormone ester" effects people differently, because there's numerous ways a hormone can yield different effects.. So, depending on which transcription factors are present different genes will be transcribed in response...Thereby the reason some individuals tend to bloat and others do NOT, as some can run 250mgs of Test and begin to see signs of fluid retention or edema exert in the circular system, or particular regions of the body.. Yet, there's individuals that can utilize 1000mgs of Test and remain dry.. Of course diet permitting.. (but this article's about biosynthesis, and not diet)

    PSL,
    Vision
    Last edited by Vision; 05-30-2021 at 02:40 PM.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Altenator_6's Avatar


    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Louisiana / Texas
    Posts
    461

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,088
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    413
    Thanked in
    250 Posts
    Rep Points
    8275867

    NPP all the way for me. Nice lean gains. No moon-face.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    CompoundLifts31's Avatar


    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    The Sunshine State
    Age
    36
    Posts
    9,475

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6,095
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,820
    Thanked in
    2,737 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    Quote Originally Posted by Vision View Post
    Nandrolone decanoate "long ester" is most efficient for muscle growth over NPP

    Nandrolone at its most efficient
    Chemical athletes who want to use nandrolone to build up their muscle mass are best off choosing a preparation with a) the longest ester possible, b) the highest concentration possible and c) injecting it in their gluteus muscle instead of in their shoulders. This according to a 1997 study published by andrologists at the University of Sydney in the Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics.




    Study
    The researchers did an experiment with 23 healthy, non-obese men aged between 18 and 40. They divided the men up into 4 groups and injected each group with a different nandrolone preparation. All preparations contained 100 mg nandrolone.
    Then the researchers measured the amount of nandrolone in the men's blood each day for the next 32 days.

    Injection sites
    The first group were given an injection of 100 mg nandrolone phenylpropionate [structural formula shown above] in their buttock. Nandrolone phenyl propionate used to be an ingredient in Organon's Durabolin, and is now found in UG preparations. Phenylpropionate is an ester that does not remain in the blood as long as decanoate. The 100 mg was in an ampoule of 4ml groundnut oil.
    The second group got the same kind of injection, but containing nandrolone decanoate, the steroid in Deca-Durabolin.
    The third group also got an injection containing 100 mg nandrolone decanoate in the buttocks, but this time the nandrolone was concentrated in 1 ml groundnut oil.
    And finally, the fourth group were injected with 100 mg nandrolone decanoate, dissolved in 1 ml groundnut oil, in the shoulder muscle.





    Results
    Nandrolone phenylpropionate gives a rapid peak in the blood, but the peak subsides after 4-5 days. Nandrolone decanoate doesn't cause a peak, but remains present for much longer in the blood.
    More nandrolone enters the blood if you inject it in a more concentrated form: 1 ml instead of 4 ml.
    Injecting into the buttocks results in more nandrolone in the blood than injecting into the shoulders.
    In the table below the shaded part shows the total amount of nandrolone that shows up in the blood after four separate injections.
    Look at the 'area under the curve'.

    Sponsor
    The research was partly financed by "Organon" Australia

    Source:
    J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1997 Apr; 281 (1): 93-102.

    Pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics of Nandrolone Esters in Oil Vehicle: Effects of Ester, Injection Site and Injection Volume

    Charles F. Minto, Christopher Howe, Susan Wishart, Ann J. Conway and David J. Handelsman

    Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics April 1997, 281 (1) 93-102;
    Abstract
    We studied healthy men who underwent blood sampling for plasma nandrolone, testosterone and inhibin measurements before and for 32 days after a single i.m. injection of 100 mg of nandrolone ester in arachis oil. Twenty-three men were randomized into groups receiving nandrolone phenylpropionate (group 1, n = 7) or nandrolone decanoate (group 2, n = 6) injected into the gluteal muscle in 4 ml of arachis oil vehicle or nandrolone decanoate in 1 ml of arachis oil vehicle injected into either the gluteal (group 3, n = 5) or deltoid (group 4,n = 5) muscles. Plasma nandrolone, testosterone and inhibin concentrations were analyzed by a mixed-effects indirect response model. Plasma nandrolone concentrations were influenced (P < .001) by different esters and injection sites, with higher and earlier peaks with the phenylpropionate ester, compared with the decanoate ester. After nandrolone decanoate injection, the highest bioavailability and peak nandrolone levels were observed with the 1-ml gluteal injection. Plasma testosterone concentrations were also influenced (P < .001) by the ester and injection site, with the most rapid, but briefest, suppression being due to the phenylpropionate ester, whereas the most sustained suppression was achieved with the 1-ml gluteal injection. Plasma inhibin concentrations were also significantly influenced by injection volume and site, with the lowest nadir occurring after the nandrolone decanoate 1-ml gluteal injection. Thus, the bioavailability and physiological effects of a nandrolone ester in an oil vehicle are greatest when the ester is injected in a small (1 ml vs. 4 ml) volume and into the glutealvs. deltoid muscle. We conclude that the side-chain ester and the injection site and volume influence the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of nandrolone esters in an oil vehicle in men.

    The thing I focused on the most was...
    :: groundnut oil :: wtf is that?!?

    No, it was a good read @Vision

    Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Team supervisor P.S.L.
    SUPER MOD
    Vision's Avatar


    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Anabolic Erudite
    Posts
    20,366

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,679
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,584
    Thanked in
    5,308 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    Quote Originally Posted by CompoundLifts31 View Post
    The thing I focused on the most was...
    :: groundnut oil :: wtf is that?!?

    No, it was a good read @Vision

    Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk
    Groundnut oil is Peanutoil, they used it in the brand name DECA-DURABOLIN 50mg/mL
    Last edited by Vision; 05-30-2021 at 06:10 PM.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    zionoir626's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Blue Ridge
    Posts
    4,416

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    994
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,990
    Thanked in
    1,255 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    Hell I thought that's what the younger guys are saying Deca does to their balls
    Groundnut

  7. #7
    Registered User
    zionoir626's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Blue Ridge
    Posts
    4,416

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    994
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,990
    Thanked in
    1,255 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    God
    Country
    Family
    Deca........not necessarily in that order

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Rigeu's Avatar


    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    859

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    823
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    681
    Thanked in
    521 Posts
    Rep Points
    8947701

    Once again good solid information put out here!

    I think a lot of people prefer npp, but also misuse deca and get those so called “deca side effects”.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Oldman85's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    2,207

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    158
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    783
    Thanked in
    548 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    Now here's a Deca question. What dosage do folks use for the joint relief that nandrolone is credited to have?

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Standfast's Avatar


    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    371

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    90
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    351
    Thanked in
    225 Posts
    Rep Points
    12827826

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldman85 View Post
    Now here's a Deca question. What dosage do folks use for the joint relief that nandrolone is credited to have?
    I've noticed joint relief at 120mg per week and have had no problems with sides and labs are always good.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    zionoir626's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Blue Ridge
    Posts
    4,416

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    994
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,990
    Thanked in
    1,255 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    Arnold used 50mgs a wk..
    100 a wk should be more than enough

  12. #12
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    1,319

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    273
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    786
    Thanked in
    516 Posts
    Rep Points
    16861067

    I always prefer deca over npp most of the time because if i dont go compete i dont need to inject every day . off season i prefer long esters , less oils and less pinning . 250mg deca over 100mg npp ( less oil )

  13. #13
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    235

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    225
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    138
    Thanked in
    116 Posts
    Rep Points
    1920100

    Quote Originally Posted by MONSTRO View Post
    I always prefer deca over npp most of the time because if i dont go compete i dont need to inject every day . off season i prefer long esters , less oils and less pinning . 250mg deca over 100mg npp ( less oil )
    this

    sorry for slight thread derail, but i prefer Tren E over Tren Ace. i know most will say tren a all day or tren a is more powerful ect. However, tren e all day for me

  14. #14
    Team supervisor P.S.L.
    SUPER MOD
    Vision's Avatar


    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Anabolic Erudite
    Posts
    20,366

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,679
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,584
    Thanked in
    5,308 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    Quote Originally Posted by bodybuildinggain View Post
    this

    sorry for slight thread derail, but i prefer Tren E over Tren Ace. i know most will say tren a all day or tren a is more powerful ect. However, tren e all day for me
    I agree with all of this.. I'm bthe same.. short esters for short blitz stacks , long esters for just about everything else. Love long ester..

  15. #15
    Registered User
    zionoir626's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Blue Ridge
    Posts
    4,416

    Thanks Thanks Given 
    994
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,990
    Thanked in
    1,255 Posts
    Rep Points
    2147483647

    Vis left out how much his wife loves him on Tren

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-20-2021, 06:29 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-07-2020, 09:40 AM
  3. Short ester with Long ester "combined".
    By Nyde in forum Source Checking & Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-19-2017, 07:43 PM
  4. Replies: 38
    Last Post: 11-03-2016, 04:54 PM
  5. How long for the "blast" to settle down to " cruise" level
    By geezerjude in forum Testosterone Replacement Therapy
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-13-2014, 09:33 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Copyright© 2012-2021 Anabolic Steroid Discussion Forums