arthur_fleck
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I do. I’m doing the DC 2 way split right now. The other style of training I’ll usually go back to is Blood and Guts style. I’m 36.
whats wrong with failure?
This. Guys have a misconception that failure training low reps go hand and hand. Dante has a dc protocol for older guys.I still go to failure or close to but with lighter weight and more reps to help prevent injuries or aggravate preexisting injuries.
I don't recommend any of my older guys to go to failure on straight sets anymore usually.
There's just too much risk, especially when you've got a lot of wear on the tread.
I DO have them go to failure on certain exercises at certain points in the workout with different set types though. Cluster sets, musclesl rounds ect. This is usually after a "heavy" set or two that's taken a bit short of failure.
On that note though, not many people REALLY train to failure anyways. If you finished the rep JUST BARELY, that's still not failure.
you can keep the same effort and lower volume approach, just do higher reps. Heavy is relative. Switch to 15-20 or even 30 reps. You’ll still build the same amount of tissue and probably improve conditioning with it.Great point! Failure is failure, not barely getting the rep.
I’m 52 and go to “just barely” my last set on each exercise, and sometimes more. I work one muscle per day 6 days a week. 60-70 minutes in the gym.
My problem is I want to go heavy all the time. I love it, addicted to it.. I can’t bring myself to do volume. I’m killing my joints/tendons and I know it but still blast away. I’ve now got a mean golfers elbow and jacked shoulder. I’m just stupid. Anyone else have this issue?
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Rest pause sets of 15+ reps are not equal to straight sets of 15+ Reps.Here's Dante's post from Intense Muscle:
"For every bodybuilder post 34 years of age
I have been meaning to write this for awhile and I guess Ill just write a shortened version of what I was going to write. There just comes a time in a bodybuilders life that I (personally) feel he has to make provisions for safety and longevity concerning bodybuilding. You really dont see tears and ruptures pre 28-30 years of age in advanced bodybuilders (unless dealt a bad hand of luck).....but you do see a plethora of tears in advanced bodybuilders in their mid to late 30's and 40's and onward.
There really comes a time where you have to start getting cautious about these things and I believe that time should come (moreso depending on when you started lifting) roughly about 34 years of age.
Alot of my ideas that are out there publically are built around trying to get beginning and intermediate bodybuilders up to advanced size as quickly as possible and most of those guys are 18-30 but I do know I have alot of post 30 years of age bbers following the gameplan also.
The worst thing I could think of a 40 year old bodybuilder doing is trying to beat weights he used when he was 28 in a low rep range. I really feel it is not a matter of IF you tear a bicep or a pec or tricep but WHEN. Want a one way ticket to a torn bicep? Be 44 years old trying to curl 225 for 4 reps. Torn tricep? Be 42 years old trying to do 225 for 6 heavy reps in the lying tricep extension.
I guess what Im trying to relay is I would like to see anyone who is post 34 years of age (doing my methods) to move rep ranges northward. At 40 years of age the very very very lowest first part of the rest pause rep range should probably be 10 reps and that again is the very lowest .......so I would probably be looking for something along the lines of a 15-30 rest pause for people post 34 years old. In a heavy barbell curl that could be 10+3+2 hypothetically. In a lying tricep extension that could be 12+6+4=22rp.
In fact (quickly thinking here) the only exercise I could feasibly see you doing anything under 10 reps with (either straight or at the first rest pause mark) as an older bodybuilder would probably be overgrip deadlift variations where you could probably get away with anything above 6 reps still.......maybe first set 9-10 and second set 6-7 could be a gameplan.
You can look at the rash of tears in the pro bodybuilding ranks with the older 35 and above bodybuilders and see that some kind of precautionary measures have to be taken here......it was very sad to see Chris Cormier this year with a torn tricep as "in my eyes" he has had the prototypical perfect blend of size and shape in the pro ranks for many years and now.......thats pretty much done with that scarlet letter of a tricep.
There is no downside to tweaking your training this way, its not a "throwing in the towel" kind of syndrome.....its just a realization of aging and the caution that must go with it. If your doing an incline press for 11+5+2 with shitheavy weight and dont think you will be gaining muscle mass.....then your misinformed. Its about not taking chances whereas you could get away with those same chances when you were in your 20's with a heavy set of 5 reps.
Ive never seen any evidence that higher rep ranges produce less growth. There’s plenty of studies that show up until 30 reps you can get the same hypertrophic adaptation if the effort is there.Rest pause sets of 15+ reps are not equal to straight sets of 15+ Reps.
I would completely disagree that sets of 20-30 reps, if done in "normal" fashion promote growth in the same way that sets done in the 6-12 rep range do.
If you mean rest pause sets or cluster sets, yeah. But, even those sets aren't really high rep. They're simply low rep sets with short test periods.
Legs can be an exception.
Until i just switched up training to something new everything was minimum 20 reps if not more to goddamn near failure. You're still going to grow either way. No sense being in constant pain. I still bench heavy cause i enjoy it when i feel like it. If you're not competing in Powerlifting or whatever who cares about heavy heavy.
Whoever said golfers elbow... that's an easy fix btw.
What rep ranges do you recommend older guys use? Is it 10-12 for upper body?Brad Schoenfeld has a lot of research out there that supports the 6-12 rep range is superior for growing tissue but, there are caviats such as volume, load, rest periods, nutrition, set types, metabolic stress and so on which would apply to either approach.
The best evidence though is the tens of thousands of bodybuilders who have grown tissue this way.
Can't say the same for higher rep sets. Legs excluded.
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/hypertrophy-range-fact-fiction/Brad Schoenfeld has a lot of research out there that supports the 6-12 rep range is superior for growing tissue but, there are caviats such as volume, load, rest periods, nutrition, set types, metabolic stress and so on which would apply to either approach.
The best evidence though is the tens of thousands of bodybuilders who have grown tissue this way.
Can't say the same for higher rep sets. Legs excluded.
What rep ranges do you recommend older guys use? Is it 10-12 for upper body?
Ah.... what’s the fix for golfers elbow?! I’ve tried so many things.
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I don’t think gear really changes it that much. Recovery wise yes, but it doesn’t make any rep range more effective.if you train with enough effort progressively and eat enough that the rep range doesn’t matter all that much. If a guy goes from benching 135 to 400 then he will be bigger regardless of rep range. Now I’d argue the guy who could squat 400 for 15-20 will have bigger legs than if he was only able to do it for 6-10. The same goes for any movementIf you're on gear and train intense and eat enough then any rep range will work.
I don’t think gear really changes it that much. Recovery wise yes, but it doesn’t make any rep range more effective.if you train with enough effort progressively and eat enough that the rep range doesn’t matter all that much. If a guy goes from benching 135 to 400 then he will be bigger regardless of rep range. Now I’d argue the guy who could squat 400 for 15-20 will have bigger legs than if he was only able to do it for 6-10. The same goes for any movement
I agree with you I just don’t think it matters if you’re on gear on not
It varies and covers multiple rep ranges.What rep ranges do you recommend older guys use? Is it 10-12 for upper body?
I appreciate the answer and letting me pick your brain. If I remember correctly you’re a lower volume guy right?It varies and covers multiple rep ranges.
Pigeon holing yourself into a certain mindset, especially when it comes to bodybuilding, isn't very productive.
I do have most every guy perform the Majority of their work in the 8-12 range with cluster, back off sets, muscle rounds and pump sets added in depending on the goal for that session.
All rep ranges can be beneficial, IF, they're used at the correct points
I don’t think gear really changes it that much. Recovery wise yes, but it doesn’t make any rep range more effective.if you train with enough effort progressively and eat enough that the rep range doesn’t matter all that much. If a guy goes from benching 135 to 400 then he will be bigger regardless of rep range. Now I’d argue the guy who could squat 400 for 15-20 will have bigger legs than if he was only able to do it for 6-10. The same goes for any movement
I agree with you I just don’t think it matters if you’re on gear on not
I don't know if I quite agree with that, because personally once I work up to a certain weight (on compound lifts or even some isos) for 6-8 reps, I don't really see any additional growth by getting the reps any higher to say 10-12. If anything I almost feel like I lose size with higher reps just burning up glycogen and fluid. I suppose it depends on your fiber type, as myself have shitty endurance in nearly everything I do and have never responded well to higher reps, drop sets or extended sets, etc.
Np. Yeah I am a lower volume higher frequency advocateI appreciate the answer and letting me pick your brain. If I remember correctly you’re a lower volume guy right?