Ascending Aortic Aneurysm 4cm... gear related? Thoughts?

[kyushin]

Greetings Gentlemen, Apologize for the long post but looking for opinions on my health problem, maybe some of the older crowd have some experience with this and can offer insight.




Background:

Been on TRT (150 - 200 mg per week) and extra gear ( running anavar 2 x per year at 40 mg per day) (nandrolone at 150mg 15 weeks on and 4 week off) along with proviron 25 mg per day while on TRT. Blood work done every 3-6 months, everything is always normal except for low HDL and high small LDL particles.

Age 50. 5' 11'' Weight 200. BP is normal outside of the doctors office, elevated in any clinical setting (white coat syndrome).


I started the 5 - 3 - 1 weight training program about 7 years ago and have had amazing success with it. I lift heavy and push myself each work out. I also do jujitsu 3 x per week or more and compete an a regular basis. My pre - lifting body weight was 165-170, so I've added 30 lbs of muscle over the past decade.


To keep track of heart health, I check BP daily. Always within normal ranges. I do a coronary calcium score every 6 years, last one the score was 0.00

I do an echo every 6 years, last one was "normal" but in Feb 2021 the doc says I have a 4cm Ascending Aortic Aneurysm. He says normal should be 2.5. Naturally I freaked out. So far I've seen 3 doctors to get their opinions.


1. no one can tell me why I have developed this. I'm a non smoker, non drinker, and according to my TRT doctor my dosages have been very mild over the past 7 years. I have no family history, other than 1 female first cousin who had an Aneurysm. She was a smoker.

2. One doctor says its likely power lifting and jujitsu related, pushing my blood pressure through the roof and causing the expansion. Can that even be possible in just 6 years? going from normal to 4cm?

3. All three doctors say the same thing: Cut out heavy weight training, nothing more than 50% of your 1 rep max from now on. Don't do any cardio including jujitsu that will push your heart rate higher than 170 beats per minute. Take up another hobby like golf instead of physical sports.

As you might imagine, hearing this is very depressing. Has anyone had this issue with their aorta? Please share your experience and how you handled it? Did you give up weight training and the sports you love? Did you have to do surgery or take any specific medication?

Thank you.

[ghostman2020]

Bro I am so sorry for your health condition. I really don't have any experience with that happening to anyone I know. But I just wanted to wish you the best with your health condition. Just remember this, there is nothing worth dying early for. I had a friend of mine die from a motorcycle accident. He was jacked when he was a live. But looking at him in his coffin it didn't look like he worked out a day in his life. Take care of yourself!

[Packman84]

Word, perhaps you can suggest something of that nature to the doctors (especially since doctor's tend not too like stopping things cold turkey, but the key word would be suggest, not negotiate. I would also ask him what quality of life would you live if you continued, and for how much longer. Finally, a second, or in this case a fourth opinion never hurts as long as it's with a competent licensed, reputable doctor and you remain100% honest with him.
All that said, I'm also truly sorry for your health issues. I urge you to take care of yourself and stay up do date on the latest research. With all the chemicals in the pipelines, the BPC-157's, the HGH's, the Sarms, the peptides, and who knows what else, be patient and don't get any more injured before help for your issue arrives. But I'm being serious, like Ghostman said, there is nothing worth dying early for.

[Glycomann]

A BBing friend of mine has an aortic aneurysm and continued to lift for many years. He would be now but has prostate cancer.Maybe the lesson is live your best life. You never know what comes tomorrow.

[kyushin]

Thank you and no question you are 100% right. I will do whatever they advise to stay healthy as long as I can. I love the sport, but it's not worth the risk if there are going to be complications.

Bro I am so sorry for your health condition. I really don't have any experience with that happening to anyone I know. But I just wanted to wish you the best with your health condition. Just remember this, there is nothing worth dying early for. I had a friend of mine die from a motorcycle accident. He was jacked when he was a live. But looking at him in his coffin it didn't look like he worked out a day in his life. Take care of yourself!

[kyushin]

There is something to be said about that as well. I often wondered 'what' would make me stop doing the training that I do, I become obsessed with it this past decade. Something like this comes up and you think well... maybe take up another hobby, like shooting sports or something. It can open doors never considered.

A BBing friend of mine has an aortic aneurysm and continued to lift for many years. He would be now but has prostate cancer.Maybe the lesson is live your best life. You never know what comes tomorrow.

[kyushin]

Thank you for the advice, I'm keeping a log of my blood pressures during weight training and jujitsu. I plan on showing them my stats when discussing what I can and can't do. They seem to be concerned with the elevation of pressure while doing heavy weights or pushing yourself too hard in a match. If it is recreational and not exceptional on either scale, then maybe it will be ok. I'm trying to arm myself with as much knowledge and research as I can.

I guess the # 1 lesson is, guys lifting heavy or on any PEDs, get your Echocardiograms done every few years. This could have gotten much worse in a few years and I feel lucky to catch it early.

Word, perhaps you can suggest something of that nature to the doctors (especially since doctor's tend not too like stopping things cold turkey, but the key word would be suggest, not negotiate. I would also ask him what quality of life would you live if you continued, and for how much longer. Finally, a second, or in this case a fourth opinion never hurts as long as it's with a competent licensed, reputable doctor and you remain100% honest with him.
All that said, I'm also truly sorry for your health issues. I urge you to take care of yourself and stay up do date on the latest research. With all the chemicals in the pipelines, the BPC-157's, the HGH's, the Sarms, the peptides, and who knows what else, be patient and don't get any more injured before help for your issue arrives. But I'm being serious, like Ghostman said, there is nothing worth dying early for.

[REHH]

Yes feel lucky you caught it early. Hard to say if AAS had anything to do with it, probably not at low doses, that's often hereditary but I've heard smoking related too. Mt wife's dad died from it and was a heavy smoker. Go lighter with more reps and get your blood pressure down low.

[theMightyQuinn]

The first thing you should do is see a cardiologist to review. You need to have this monitored on a regular basis, like a echo every 6 months. At 4 cm there is no need to do anything, but if it grows to 5.5 cm you will need surgery to fix. I had an ascending aortic aneurysm that was 3.9 cm, 6 months later it was 4.3 cm so it can grow quickly. In my case it was caused by aortic stenosis, a narrowing of the aortic heart valve due to calcification of the leaflets making them stiff and restricting blood flow. It started out very mild but after an echo 4 years later the aortic stenosis was very severe, and the aneurysm was 4.3 cm. In my case replacing the heart valve with a bovine tissue valve took care of the stenosis, and the ascending aortic aneurysm returned to normal. I had a off the record conversation with my cardiologist and in his opinion it was almost certainly NOT caused by steroid use and was caused by calcification which is a normal result of aging but rare for someone my age.

Listen to the 3 doctors, no need for another opinion. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. When we lift weights, especially singles with max weight your BP goes through the roof momentarily. For healthy people that will not cause an issue. Taking your BP before and after training is not going to show that. The problem is that an ascending aortic aneurysm is a weakening of the arterial wall and can rupture under those condition, meaning an emergency situation and even sudden death. There is no need to stop lifting altogether, but I would change to more of a bodybuilding style in the 12-15 r

[theMightyQuinn]

.... oops.

There is no need to stop lifting altogether, but I would change to more of a bodybuilding style in the 12-15 rep range, just short of failure. As far as cardio at 50 years old, your projected max heart rate is 170 bpm. So they are saying not to max your heart rate. But a bpm of 70%-85% (120-145) is fine and is considered a moderately intense cardio workout.

[kyushin]

Thank you, this is the kind of insight I needed.

I'm seeing a cardiologist now. I'm doing a contrast MRA later this week to get more details. I definitely want to talk to the doctor about this calcification and stenosis, perhaps this is my issue as well. It's worth getting some insight. I've always tried to live a healthy lifestyle, so I'm puzzled as to why I have this issue when my brothers and other relatives who smoke and don't exercise have 0 issues. : /

The first thing you should do is see a cardiologist to review. You need to have this monitored on a regular basis, like a echo every 6 months. At 4 cm there is no need to do anything, but if it grows to 5.5 cm you will need surgery to fix. I had an ascending aortic aneurysm that was 3.9 cm, 6 months later it was 4.3 cm so it can grow quickly. In my case it was caused by aortic stenosis, a narrowing of the aortic heart valve due to calcification of the leaflets making them stiff and restricting blood flow. It started out very mild but after an echo 4 years later the aortic stenosis was very severe, and the aneurysm was 4.3 cm. In my case replacing the heart valve with a bovine tissue valve took care of the stenosis, and the ascending aortic aneurysm returned to normal. I had a off the record conversation with my cardiologist and in his opinion it was almost certainly NOT caused by steroid use and was caused by calcification which is a normal result of aging but rare for someone my age.

Listen to the 3 doctors, no need for another opinion. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. When we lift weights, especially singles with max weight your BP goes through the roof momentarily. For healthy people that will not cause an issue. Taking your BP before and after training is not going to show that. The problem is that an ascending aortic aneurysm is a weakening of the arterial wall and can rupture under those condition, meaning an emergency situation and even sudden death. There is no need to stop lifting altogether, but I would change to more of a bodybuilding style in the 12-15 r

[theMightyQuinn]

Thank you, this is the kind of insight I needed.

I'm seeing a cardiologist now. I'm doing a contrast MRA later this week to get more details. I definitely want to talk to the doctor about this calcification and stenosis, perhaps this is my issue as well. It's worth getting some insight. I've always tried to live a healthy lifestyle, so I'm puzzled as to why I have this issue when my brothers and other relatives who smoke and don't exercise have 0 issues. : /

You're welcome. I doubt it's aortic stenosis. Have any of the doctors told you have a heart murmur? If so that is how it starts. It would show on the echo, plus they can actually hear it with a stethoscope. You did the right thing going to the cardiologist and getting the contrast MRA. Hopefully he can figure out what the cause is.

[kyushin]

No murmur, EKG was normal, minor LV hypertrophy. Yes, I'm definitely looking forward to the MRA, I want answers, as much information as I can get so I know what to do going forward.

You're welcome. I doubt it's aortic stenosis. Have any of the doctors told you have a heart murmur? If so that is how it starts. It would show on the echo, plus they can actually hear it with a stethoscope. You did the right thing going to the cardiologist and getting the contrast MRA. Hopefully he can figure out what the cause is.

[theMightyQuinn]

No murmur, EKG was normal, minor LV hypertrophy. Yes, I'm definitely looking forward to the MRA, I want answers, as much information as I can get so I know what to do going forward.

Well let us know, it could be that it might take years for it to become a problem, if at all. If it does get worse it can be surgically repaired. I believe that procedure is the minimally invasive type where they go thru an artery in your leg to repair the aneurysm so the recovery time isn't bad.