The higher the dosages of anabolics the biggest you get?

[ArgonCoagulator]

Go re read your post, you said guys that eat over 7K are fat, I proved you wrong. I might as well prove you wrong again.
Joey Chestnut and Takeru Kobayashi and Matt Stonie worlds best competitive eaters eat well over 10K calories. Joey ate 74 hotdogs, 22000+ calories. He isn't really fat or obese. He weighs 230 and stands at 6'1". If you want to consider eating a sport as well like these guys do.

Takeru Kobayashi has abs eating 6K calories...lol


https://www.joe.co.uk/fitness-healt...six-pack-eating-6000-calories-in-one-go-77322

Yes, re-read my post and the quoted text above it. * Then it will hopefully all make sense you.

I was going to explain, but you seem like you could use a "win", so I'll just let you have that one.

 

[anabolichow2]

This is a dangerous road to go down.

but Genetics is everything. As you can see from plenty of individuals on this forum. They take way more gear than I do..... but do they honestly look like it? Not trying to be rude, just being real, giving you the best real example I can.

 

[Joocey]

Go re read your post, you said guys that eat over 7K are fat, I proved you wrong. I might as well prove you wrong again.
Joey Chestnut and Takeru Kobayashi and Matt Stonie worlds best competitive eaters eat well over 10K calories. Joey ate 74 hotdogs, 22000+ calories. He isn't really fat or obese. He weighs 230 and stands at 6'1". If you want to consider eating a sport as well like these guys do.

Takeru Kobayashi has abs eating 6K calories...lol


https://www.joe.co.uk/fitness-healt...six-pack-eating-6000-calories-in-one-go-77322

This is a flawed and invalid argument. Alot of competitive eaters use romaine lettuce to stretch out their stomach, when they do consume an absurd amount of calories they'll usually throw it up afterwards...and most importantly. THEY DONT EAT THAT MUCH CONSISTENTLEY EVERYDAY.

 

[malfeasance]

First I agree with your first response. Now this awesome sarcasm. Nice!

I logged back on to respond to this thread specifically.

MONSTRO seems to be the new hero here. I like he is contributing so much and a lot of it helpful information, but I hope members are reading between the lines on his post, or at least adding them up and deciding what is good and what isn’t.

Perhaps top level bidybuilders are using these crazy number and dosages but many think the bodybuilders today, while definitely bigger across the board, don’t have the refined physiques of the 80s and 90s. The info MONSTRO is getting from these guys may bet correct but I know for a fact what some Olympians were using in 1989. How do I know this? Because before these guys were celebrities in the instagram and youtube age, they were broke fuckers who slept at my friends houses in San Diego because they didn’t have enough money for hotals. I got them into my local gyms for free as guests and even gave one guy gas money so he could get back to LA.
We talked openly about steroids because they weren’t really controlled at the time. They told me of a couple of guys who used crazy amounts (for the time) and it was the subject of amazement and laughter.

The guys I knew used around a gram of test...maybe, 2 amps of parabolan (maybe 3) and never went over 150mg of anadrol or 75mg of dbol.
Pre-contest that array switched to winstrol, anavar and two weeks of 20mg halotestin. The only anti-estrogen they used was 10mg of nolvadex.

I could list names of these guys but it would serve no purpose and I would sound like every other name dropper.

Seeing this ridiculously high dosing being promulgated here is exactly why I won’t contribute anymore.
Methinks the rational guys on the forum just skip over this shit these days.

I do not know what pro show was in San Diego in 1989, but bodybuilding in the 1980s was much different from bodybuilding in 2020. All the Mr. Olympias in the 1980s were below 200 pounds except Lee Haney, who brought a new size standard to the stage with his big lat wings. Even so, in 1989 Lee Haney weighed in at 243 pounds. Nobody else on stage was like him. In fact, the second place winner was Lee Labrada. What did he weigh? 180?

Here is Lee Haney weighing in on video for 1989.

The Arnold Sports Festival claims Brandon Curry weighs 260. He is short - only 5'7" (Lee Haney was 5'11" - a full third of a foot taller).

Then look at the list of other competitors qualified for the Olympia, like James Hollingshead and Roelly Winklaar and, well, Phil Heath, and take note of the vast differences between the 1980s and today.

Could it all be better genetics in 2020?

I doubt it. Increased doses and increased growth hormone and insulin. <----- Just my two cents.

Guys like Monstro have to compete in this field and have to do well to make money.

Your typical poster here has no reason to be pushing things like the pros do, so I am 100% with you if that is your point, but I sincerely doubt the 2020 lineup is doing what your acquaintances in 1989 (who were financially broken) shared with you while crashed at your place. The typical poster here probably has no business doing "a gram of test...maybe, 2 amps of parabolan (maybe 3) and . . . 150mg of anadrol or 75mg of dbol. Pre-contest that array switched to winstrol, anavar and two weeks of 20mg halotestin." Either.

But the question was asked in the original post and the title of this thread.

Let's face it. There is a size-dose relationship.

300mg a week of testosterone and 600 - which will support more size? There is an actual study on that one, by the way, and 600 wins, with no controlled diet and no working out.

Would 800 be better? No way to know, because no study has ever been done higher than 600mg.

But the reality is that every time I try something new or push dosages a little higher, I get a little bigger and better. The only thing stopping me from continuing down that road is concern for my health, and, let's face it, at my age there is no real point to it, since it would be impossible for me to be a pro bodybuilder AND I doubt I had the genetics for it even when I was younger (but we'll never know, as that window closed a long time ago).

So, yeah, genetics matter, yeah, diet matters (duh), training matters, but gear matters, and we should not pretend it does not.

Without hormones many of us would be cutting down to 5% body fat and weighing 135-140, maybe 160 if taller and 180 if some sort of genetic freak (and tall). <---- and that's a fact.

 

[malfeasance]

We can see that in medicinal view . Anadrol is used in medicine to treat anemia and when the pacient begin using it they gain alot of weight even eating the same food . We have medical tests with people using steroids as medical instructions and is muscle mass improves alot even without training .

I had a diet given to me by a bodybuilder who listened and helped me design it based on my goals. It was to be used for my first cycle.

I started my very first bodybuilding diet BEFORE my first cycle. Why not? I had it, and I did not yet have the steroids. So I made a decision to implement it and see how it worked natty. It DID work. I gained a few pounds. I got a tad bit leaner. Keep in mind I had no idea about diet before I tried the bodybuilding diet, I just ate and ate and tried to eat a lot of meat and peanut butter and milk (LOL!), so it is no surprise that the new diet worked.

But I did stall after gaining just a few pounds.


After a couple of weeks stalled I broke out the stash I had been collecting and hoarding for my first cycle. Do we all remember that nervous, shaking first syringe filling, first time puncturing the skin so slowly, just sure we were going to get an infection or break off the needle under the skin or send an air bubble to our brain and die? LOL!

Ten weeks later, 25 pounds heavier, stronger, looking completely different if watery (didn't know about "watery" at the time).

A month or so later after the water weight dropped off, realizing you were still 12 pounds up and looked so different as not to be recognizable from your former physique. I had gained muscle and gotten a bunch leaner.

Guess what? SAME diet all the way through, with no variation. Boring but consistent.

Same workout, too.

The only difference was the hormones.

Of course, this example was a first cycle and lower than some guys cruise on! But it illustrates that hormones certainly do make a difference. Do any of us think if our wife eats more, her arms and shoulders will look like ours? Why not? Hormones, that's why not. Give her testosterone and watch that change (yuck, but you get the point).

 

[christiantt]

I had a diet given to me by a bodybuilder who listened and helped me design it based on my goals. It was to be used for my first cycle.

I started my very first bodybuilding diet BEFORE my first cycle. Why not? I had it, and I did not yet have the steroids. So I made a decision to implement it and see how it worked natty. It DID work. I gained a few pounds. I got a tad bit leaner. Keep in mind I had no idea about diet before I tried the bodybuilding diet, I just ate and ate and tried to eat a lot of meat and peanut butter and milk (LOL!), so it is no surprise that the new diet worked.

But I did stall after gaining just a few pounds.


After a couple of weeks stalled I broke out the stash I had been collecting and hoarding for my first cycle. Do we all remember that nervous, shaking first syringe filling, first time puncturing the skin so slowly, just sure we were going to get an infection or break off the needle under the skin or send an air bubble to our brain and die? LOL!

Ten weeks later, 25 pounds heavier, stronger, looking completely different if watery (didn't know about "watery" at the time).

A month or so later after the water weight dropped off, realizing you were still 12 pounds up and looked so different as not to be recognizable from your former physique. I had gained muscle and gotten a bunch leaner.

Guess what? SAME diet all the way through, with no variation. Boring but consistent.

Same workout, too.

The only difference was the hormones.

Of course, this example was a first cycle and lower than some guys cruise on! But it illustrates that hormones certainly do make a difference. Do any of us think if our wife eats more, her arms and shoulders will look like ours? Why not? Hormones, that's why not. Give her testosterone and watch that change (yuck, but you get the point).

Great post. 100% spot on.

Transport Lee Haney from the 80's to today and give him the gear protocols of the Heath's, Curry's, etc as well as all the other supplements his heart desires and Mr. Haney would be a bigger bodybuilder than he was back in the 80's. No question.

 

[MONSTRO]

malfeasance you just said all . Our biggest concern is the health and of course the money used ( not for all) and only make sense if you earn money doing bodybuilding, if not stay low dosages and keep healthy

 

[zionoir626]

1st I can't believe Skip and i agree..the danger in this thread is the New guy..all he sees is more is better..I posted on a different thread the dangers of long cycles..but was shrugged..fine run them if you want..just remember to come back and post when it hits the fan..Same here.. I'm 54 and have a list of problems due to prolonged use..at low to moderate doses..So,you think higher doses will yield less??..that old"if everything is equal"..well it never is or will be..
The 80 to 90% of us never will step on stage and pose..the largest part of us are just regular working class guys that want to be bigger,stronger or whatever..and are here to learn and share..any of us that have been here for anything more than a couple of years see all kinds of plain stupid stuff..the majority of threads are from New guys that want to re-invent the wheel..1st cycle Tren..we have all seen those threads..with all the info at the touch of fingers,but still want to be spoon feed..
Lastly...more is not better..find what works for you..risk vs reward..

 

[christiantt]

1st I can't believe Skip and i agree..the danger in this thread is the New guy..all he sees is more is better..I posted on a different thread the dangers of long cycles..but was shrugged..fine run them if you want..just remember to come back and post when it hits the fan..Same here.. I'm 54 and have a list of problems due to prolonged use..at low to moderate doses..So,you think higher doses will yield less??..that old"if everything is equal"..well it never is or will be..
The 80 to 90% of us never will step on stage and pose..the largest part of us are just regular working class guys that want to be bigger,stronger or whatever..and are here to learn and share..any of us that have been here for anything more than a couple of years see all kinds of plain stupid stuff..the majority of threads are from New guys that want to re-invent the wheel..1st cycle Tren..we have all seen those threads..with all the info at the touch of fingers,but still want to be spoon feed..
Lastly...more is not better..find what works for you..risk vs reward..

I agree with what you say. I think the distinction Monstro is making, though, is that if you earn a living from bodybuilding type pursuits, and if gear helps you in those pursuits, well, you can do so but it is sure as hell risky and it is on YOU to be aware of those risks. If a newbie or anyone on these boards, just a general gym rat, thinks taking pro-level gear dosing is a good idea or something to consider, well, best of luck to them as it is NOT a good idea. The fact I even have to say that is absurd.

Monstro, given the language difference/barrier, is perhaps simply missing a bit nuance. But Monstro, I think your English (not being your primary language) is quite good.

Me, personally, I take an interested voyeur approach to the world Monstro lives in and what the pros do. I will never live that life or take those gear protocols myself, but I find it interesting.

 

[ArgonCoagulator]

This is a dangerous road to go down.

but Genetics is everything. As you can see from plenty of individuals on this forum. They take way more gear than I do..... but do they honestly look like it? Not trying to be rude, just being real, giving you the best real example I can.

You clearly have atleast "good" genetics for mass.

But i think Monstro's point is that say you had a twin brother with identical genetics for muscle building, you both trained together with the same intensity, load, volume etc and ate the same quality 5000 cals per day, high protein diet.

Picture that for a moment...

The ONLY difference is that you are on one gram of gear and your twin is taking 3 grams of multiple compounds.

Who will be healthier after 3 years? Probably you, lol, but that's not the point... This is bodybuilding, not men's health...

Who would have gained more lean mass and strength? Same calories, same training style/intensity, same rest, etc, just different doses...?

And of course at a certain point the twin using more gear would surpass the other in loads used...i realize that.

 

[MONSTRO]

Lets be clear . this is something to show all the beginners this is not the way to do it because you will destroy your health and your bank account.
And another think : even the pros begin using low dosages and increase them with time and mass you get , the more muscle you have the more anabolics you need to keep that mass ( thats why pros use high dosages , because they weight over 250lb with 5% fat )
Of course when you achieve some level the only think you can increase is anabolics , because after 7k calories is not possible to eat more day by day , you cant sleep more than 10 hours because you need time to eat, drink water and train, if you train more you will not recover and you get catabolic . ITS SIMPLE AS THAT / Just stop and think

 

[malfeasance]

1st I can't believe Skip and i agree..the danger in this thread is the New guy..all he sees is more is better..I posted on a different thread the dangers of long cycles..but was shrugged..fine run them if you want..just remember to come back and post when it hits the fan..Same here.. I'm 54 and have a list of problems due to prolonged use..at low to moderate doses..So,you think higher doses will yield less??..that old"if everything is equal"..well it never is or will be..
The 80 to 90% of us never will step on stage and pose..the largest part of us are just regular working class guys that want to be bigger,stronger or whatever..and are here to learn and share..any of us that have been here for anything more than a couple of years see all kinds of plain stupid stuff..the majority of threads are from New guys that want to re-invent the wheel..1st cycle Tren..we have all seen those threads..with all the info at the touch of fingers,but still want to be spoon feed..
Lastly...more is not better..find what works for you..risk vs reward..

So do we hide the truth so the New Guy does not see it?

We have all the information needed here for the New Guy to structure a good first cycle with practically no risk to New Guys health.

Do you have a link to a thread that elaborates on your health issues and the type of usage that precipitated them? You and I are basically the same age, and I could probably learn a lot by reading it. I just competed for the first time this year.

 

[malfeasance]

Me, personally, I take an interested voyeur approach to the world Monstro lives in and what the pros do. I will never live that life or take those gear protocols myself, but I find it interesting.

Definite voyeuristic interest here as well!

 

[MONSTRO]

This post is to show all the newbies and beginners this is not the way to go ( only if you want to die young or have huge health problems ) the pros pros do as a job to earn money. Almost all of us cant ever in life have money to do cycles like the pros ( Its ALOT of money ) and dont worth the risk . When you chose to compete you know you will push your body to extreme and stress that never compensate , just to earn a medal or trophy ( dont worth to compete , i said this so many times ) .

But i think is important to have here this kind of information to show all of you this is not the way to go and mostly because knowlage is power and im always ready to learn more and more

 

[XOTG85]

If you don’t have the genetics and need 4-5grams of gear why bother? User beware going down this long hard road that always ends disastrous.

 

[mike shanks]

If you don’t have the genetics and need 4-5grams of gear why bother? User beware going down this long hard road that always ends disastrous.

nonsense

 

[Skip Foursome]

Members talking about making money as a bodybuilder?

What does a top level bidybuilder make per year?

Maybe I'm wrong but unless a bodybuilder has some sort of side gig they make very little if any money.

 

[zionoir626]

I'm not sure but they have to have something on the side.. endorsements,product they push,something..Like many professionals,it's not about the money...rather the love for what they do..

 

[mike shanks]

No.

Its genetics.. then food.. then training.. then recovery.. then gear.

exactly

 

[mike shanks]

People try to tell always that food is the most important part to grow to another level, but lets be clear if i use 4gr week gear and eat 5000 calories the top pro that uses 12gr week should be eating 15000 calories to keep growing???????? But what i see is top pros using over 10gr gear week and eating less or the same as me . I eat 400gr rice per meal and most of them dont go over 300gr ( Regan Grimes, Brandon Curry, Phil Heath ) .

So the secret of being big is not food but super high quality gear at super high dosages

If you don't eat ,sleep and train properly it's useless to Take High doses, very unhealthy as well

t

 

[MONSTRO]

I said when you achieve the perfection of all the 3 basics train hard, eat alot and sleep alot , you cant do more ( you cant sleep more because you need time to eat , you cant eat more because is impossible after 7k calories eat more clean food , and training more will overtrain and lose muscle ) so after all 3 basics the only way to keep growing is increase slowly the dosages .

Zionoir626 some top pros earn alot of money because all they use during day are sponsored by brands ( anabolics, supplements, food, clothing and a pay check every month ) , others with less name or social medias live as a poor person joining all cents to do is prep . in this worl of fitness you need to be smart

- - - Updated - - -

I said when you achieve the perfection of all the 3 basics train hard, eat alot and sleep alot , you cant do more ( you cant sleep more because you need time to eat , you cant eat more because is impossible after 7k calories eat more clean food , and training more will overtrain and lose muscle ) so after all 3 basics the only way to keep growing is increase slowly the dosages .

Zionoir626 some top pros earn alot of money because all they use during day are sponsored by brands ( anabolics, supplements, food, clothing and a pay check every month ) , others with less name or social medias live as a poor person joining all cents to do is prep . in this worl of fitness you need to be smart

 

[zionoir626]

Am aware the top get bank..but the other 10 to 15 guys..Ronnie was a cop and traveled all over the world competing barley ranking in the beginning..But look at him now..

 

[christiantt]

Anybody have a confirmed, 100% accurate gear protocol from one of the top pros? Just out of sheer curiosity to see the massive gear intake they are supposedly taking if this thread is correct.

I have seen/read one of Piana's (rip) actual ones. But the ones floating around for Dallas and Ramy were never actually confirmed.

 

[malfeasance]

Anybody have a confirmed, 100% accurate gear protocol from one of the top pros? Just out of sheer curiosity to see the massive gear intake they are supposedly taking if this thread is correct.

I have seen/read one of Piana's (rip) actual ones. But the ones floating around for Dallas and Ramy were never actually confirmed.

Hell, no, and for many reasons they are not going to say.

Some pros are opening up a little, but they are not going to be a completely open book. Sponsors. Law. Stupid kid tries it and gets issues. All kinds of reasons not to be too open.

 

[MONSTRO]

Yes most of the top pros cant tell anything because of is contracts with supplements brands , and as they are huge influencers they send bad message to beginners . But lets be real even if i know what Ramy or other are taking i never do it because the money needed for a 12 week cycle i need 5 years working to get it . So is no danger tell beginners is cycles because me you and them cant affort all this .

 

[malfeasance]

MONSTRO, how fat do you let yourself get in the off season when trying to bulk? Serious question, here. You look pretty lean in all of your photos and video. When trying to add size, is it good to let body fat increase?

 

[MONSTRO]

My problem is always gut bloted. I ahve to eat always clean food because im celiac ( gluten intolerant ) and my skin is very thin even Cedric McMillan said my skin is not normal . Its hard for mr to bulk eating so limited and clean food .

 

[Augustine5I]

My problem is always gut bloted. I ahve to eat always clean food because im celiac ( gluten intolerant ) and my skin is very thin even Cedric McMillan said my skin is not normal . Its hard for mr to bulk eating so limited and clean food .

Any of that gut bloat attributed to GH use?


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