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Ultrasound. Enlarged Heart

maddoger

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Get Shredded!
I do heart ultrasound every year. This year my heart enlarged more. Left ventricle is enlarged. The numbers are still ok. The wall between ventricles enlarged 0.9mm more reaching 14.9mm.
How to stop this process ? I'm on 250mg of T and 2-3iu of HGH and during blasts I can do:
1. Primobalan 800-1000mg a week. I assume it won't affect heart that much.
2. 100mg of tren + 250-300mg of Mast a week.

100mg of tren is way less than most of people do. It still provides great results. It also causes side effects, like sweating, insomnia, and blood pressure. I'm going to drop tren completely or keep it below 80mg/week on rare blast. What else I can do ? Thanks
 
Nobody here can possibly answer that. We can't determine the root cause but I think it's pretty obvious that it's likely AAS related. Heavy lifting in general is known to cause left ventricle enlargement so unless you're willing to completely discontinue this lifestyle you might have to just deal with it and hope for the best.
 
yeah, I totally agree w/joz, that's way above our pay grade boss- but imo I would quit all that stuff until u dicuss this w/ a specialist-just my opinion- (except maybe the trt-don't see what that could hurt) And,I wouldn't ASSUME anything.
 
Changing lifting routine up more from heavy to more aerobic mixed in. Maybe even add some more intense cardio vs long slow duration.

Get off the HGH. GH makes everything grow.

Stop blasting for now. Give your body a break.

Pull TRT to 100-150mg a wk. At 250mg a wk you must be over 1000 and that’s not a physiological range.

I am not an MD and this is not medical advice. It’s just common thought process to do the opposite of what we are doing that is possibly causing the enlargement.

I am not saying this will stop, or even reverse it. Just seems like the most logical thing to do.


If you have questions or need a list hit up Red Bird at redsxript@ctemplar.com
 
Changing lifting routine up more from heavy to more aerobic mixed in. Maybe even add some more intense cardio vs long slow duration.

Get off the HGH. GH makes everything grow.

Stop blasting for now. Give your body a break.

Pull TRT to 100-150mg a wk. At 250mg a wk you must be over 1000 and that’s not a physiological range.

I am not an MD and this is not medical advice. It’s just common thought process to do the opposite of what we are doing that is possibly causing the enlargement.

I am not saying this will stop, or even reverse it. Just seems like the most logical thing to do.


If you have questions or need a list hit up Red Bird at redsxript@ctemplar.com
As said here, if you want it to stop you gotta pull the GH and the gear down to trt. The likelihood of reversing it is almost zero. But there are some things you could try.

For one, I'd be on heart supplements if I were you. Ubiquinol 100mg daily, K2 m-7 100mcg daily with vit D. And the one that could possibly help is circumin. 1500mg daily with black pepper extract. It's been shown in studies to stop and even reverse cardiomyopathy by up to 40%. Those studies are eat studies and it was injected, but with the black pepper extract it increases oral bioavailability.

How is your blood pressure? High BP is the leading cause of LVH. That needs to be not only under control, but on the lower side of normal for the most benefit. More cardio is good too.

There is a chance to reverse it, but you need a good cardiologists advice.
 
Yep, get blood pressure under control. High blood pressure is the number one cause. What is yours? You mentioned blood pressure related to tren. Also, it is reversible if you reduce your blood pressure, even if you use drugs to do it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1831908/


For extreme athletes (Olympic competitors), it is reversible by reducing training.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1024938/

Reducing bodyweight helps (difficult for bodybuilders without retiring)

Moderate cardio helps (note moderate)
 
If you have not come clean with your doc, now is the time. See a cardiologist and get your AAS dosage back down to normal TRT ranges. That advice comes from my SIL who is a cardiologist. He said do that, or get your affairs in order. Serious shit...
 
The ultra-sound specialist told me to get BP under control. It’s slightly elevated due to stress and taking adderall for work. I do take propranolol to lower it. GH helps to reduce stress and sleep better. I think things should be much better if I will cut things that elevate BP.

Btw, how cardio will help? The doc said the opposite. Cardio make your heart racing.

Thank you for your input
 
The ultra-sound specialist told me to get BP under control. It’s slightly elevated due to stress and taking adderall for work. I do take propranolol to lower it. GH helps to reduce stress and sleep better. I think things should be much better if I will cut things that elevate BP.

Btw, how cardio will help? The doc said the opposite. Cardio make your heart racing.

Thank you for your input

@RoyKeane gave some of the best advice. Either come clean with your MD about AAS use or find a doctor in your area that is knowledgeable in that aspect and won't judge you. Your body does have the ability to heal itself if you treat it right (somebody else in this thread also mentioned this). In my opinion only, you're kidding yourself if you think that you can use anything other than TRT. Just because you think a substance is "safer" or you use it at a lower dosage than most, doesn't mean it couldn't still have a negative impact on your heart. I'm sorry to hear about your diagnosis and hope that you are able to reverse this.
 
The ultra-sound specialist told me to get BP under control. It’s slightly elevated due to stress and taking adderall for work. I do take propranolol to lower it. GH helps to reduce stress and sleep better. I think things should be much better if I will cut things that elevate BP.

Btw, how cardio will help? The doc said the opposite. Cardio make your heart racing.

Thank you for your input

GH causes cardiomyopathy. What's happened is your heart has grown. GH causes everything to grow. It's proven to cause cardiomyopathy when abused. If you give a shit about being healthy, I'd say it's time to ditch the gear and the Adderall. A cardiologist should've told you that first off.

Cardio is bad? It reduces blood pressure. Sitting on your ass increases it. Weight lifting increases it even more while you're doing it.
 
IML Gear Cream!
I do heart ultrasound every year. This year my heart enlarged more. Left ventricle is enlarged. The numbers are still ok. The wall between ventricles enlarged 0.9mm more reaching 14.9mm.
How to stop this process ? I'm on 250mg of T and 2-3iu of HGH and during blasts I can do:
1. Primobalan 800-1000mg a week. I assume it won't affect heart that much.
2. 100mg of tren + 250-300mg of Mast a week.

100mg of tren is way less than most of people do. It still provides great results. It also causes side effects, like sweating, insomnia, and blood pressure. I'm going to drop tren completely or keep it below 80mg/week on rare blast. What else I can do ? Thanks

I just reread this post.

Look man. You've come to a critical juncture in your life here. You have two choices. 1) drop the gear completely and have a shot at recovery and the ability to live a full life, watch kids grow up, etc. Or 2) keep blasting a gram of primo with gh and Adderall that you assume isn't bad for your heart (while your heart grows), and die of a heart attack while you're playing catch with your kid, just so you can look jacked.

The choice is yours alone. If you think you're just gonna drop the tren or run it lower and this isn't gonna get worse, make sure you have your will done and your funeral expenses paid for. At least make it a little easier on your family. Because the likelihood of that happening will become almost certain.
 
Btw, how cardio will help? The doc said the opposite. Cardio make your heart racing.

Moderate cardio does not get your heart racing. Get your heart rate up in the 130s for half an hour to 45 minutes or so . . . not racing at all.
 
Makes sense. Thank you for the feedback. You do HGH as well afaik. Do you check your heart? I know that HGH will make everything grow, but what about 2iu? It’s Literally nothing. I wonder if that much will still grow someone’s heart.

I think most of people don’t do checks and i caught the issue early enough. Will be working on fixing it.

- - - Updated - - -

I just reread this post.

Look man. You've come to a critical juncture in your life here. You have two choices. 1) drop the gear completely and have a shot at recovery and the ability to live a full life, watch kids grow up, etc. Or 2) keep blasting a gram of primo with gh and Adderall that you assume isn't bad for your heart (while your heart grows), and die of a heart attack while you're playing catch with your kid, just so you can look jacked.

The choice is yours alone. If you think you're just gonna drop the tren or run it lower and this isn't gonna get worse, make sure you have your will done and your funeral expenses paid for. At least make it a little easier on your family. Because the likelihood of that happening will become almost certain.
Makes sense. Thank you for the feedback. You do HGH as well afaik. Do you check your heart? I know that HGH will make everything grow, but what about 2iu? It’s Literally nothing. I wonder if that much will still grow someone’s heart.

I think most of people don’t do checks and i caught the issue early enough. Will be working on fixing it.
 
Sounds like you really don't want to quit but looks to me you have to.

Garlic Chicken worded it best and I can't top that.

At least you see the problem and you can do something about it.

Grow old, be with your family and enjoy life.

This shit is not worth it when you get to the point where you are.

Time to go a different direction with your life.
 
yep- I guarantee if I got news like this it would be over for me. I don't take anything lightly and it won't take much for me to throw the towel in.
Sounds like you really don't want to quit but looks to me you have to.

Garlic Chicken worded it best and I can't top that.

At least you see the problem and you can do something about it.

Grow old, be with your family and enjoy life.

This shit is not worth it when you get to the point where you are.

Time to go a different direction with your life.
 
Makes sense. Thank you for the feedback. You do HGH as well afaik. Do you check your heart? I know that HGH will make everything grow, but what about 2iu? It’s Literally nothing. I wonder if that much will still grow someone’s heart.

I think most of people don’t do checks and i caught the issue early enough. Will be working on fixing it.

- - - Updated - - -


Makes sense. Thank you for the feedback. You do HGH as well afaik. Do you check your heart? I know that HGH will make everything grow, but what about 2iu? It’s Literally nothing. I wonder if that much will still grow someone’s heart.

I think most of people don’t do checks and i caught the issue early enough. Will be working on fixing it.
Of course man. I do use GH. Been at 2iu for a while, and about to bump it to 4 for a little bit. I won't go over 4iu ever anymore, no need for me to take the risk honestly. It seems like over 4iu mixed with gear is where the heart issues really start developing so that's why I have the arbitrary limit lol.

I actually do get my heart checked, I've had 2 echos done, that last about 6 months ago. I have zero enlargement and my EF is 65+% as of the last one. As soon as I get any enlargement I'm done with gear period, mostly because I want to be here for the grandkids.

I do also take K2 with vit D, ubiquinol, and circumin at 1500mg daily to hopefully help prevent it. I'm on BP meds to keep my BP down in the 126/65ish range. I don't want it getting remotely high, mostly because of the cardiomyopathy and kidney issues it creates. If it doesn't, that'll be my day to stop. I'm not a competitive bber, and I don't care enough about being jacked to keep it up if it really compromises my health.
 
Sounds like you really don't want to quit but looks to me you have to.

Garlic Chicken worded it best and I can't top that.

At least you see the problem and you can do something about it.

Grow old, be with your family and enjoy life.

This shit is not worth it when you get to the point where you are.

Time to go a different direction with your life.
This is exactly what I think. It's not worth it.
yep- I guarantee if I got news like this it would be over for me. I don't take anything lightly and it won't take much for me to throw the towel in.
Yep me too. As soon as that starts I'm done. Hopefully I won't even get there, but we'll see. Trying my best to hold it off
 
Obviously I'm not MD myself, but I think some of the guys have already given you practical common sense suggestions which is basically ease off the doses and do more cardio.

I would personally add, that when you "cruise", be sure it is truly an actual TRT cruise as in no other compounds besides the minimum amount of test (NOT 250mg) that keeps you at a steady 700-800ng/dl. Obviously this is is much less than 250mg of test for MOST men. Probably closer to 125mg. Also, make sure you truly follow the "time on = time off" principle for blasting/cruising. Try to learn to be happy with using lower doses like a gram or less of total gear for a blast. Learn to be happy with being a "good size" rather than chasing monster status.
 
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I would stop all gear if it were me. And just do TRT to be in mid-range under Docs supervision.
Fake muscles for a while isnt worth long-term health...
 
Ok, I know what to do thanks for the input. Every lifter has enlarged heart. Even those who don’t do AAS. Having enlaeged heart is not the end of the world. It all depends how much it progressed and if it stopped at reasonable/safe levels. My heart was slightly enlarged due to blood pressure before AAS.

Ppl who were giving tips and advices, do you do ultra sound every year ? Curious how steroids and HGH affected your heart.
 
Get Shredded!
Ok, I know what to do thanks for the input. Every lifter has enlarged heart. Even those who don’t do AAS. Having enlaeged heart is not the end of the world. It all depends how much it progressed and if it stopped at reasonable/safe levels. My heart was slightly enlarged due to blood pressure before AAS.

Ppl who were giving tips and advices, do you do ultra sound every year ? Curious how steroids and HGH affected your heart.
You're right, it's not the end all but if it progresses it will be. That was my point. I did add a little shock value to it but it is true, unchecked cardiomyopathy will putt us in the grave early. It's the reason so many bbers have been falling over dead the last 15 years. Hell we've had a few heart attacks on this forum the last few years. It can happen.

Biggest thing is to get that damn BP down. Go to a true trt dose for a while and get everything under control. That's what I would do

Also, I did post above about getting echos. I've had a couple done now and I will continue to in the future. Probably every other year
 
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You're right, it's not the end all but if it progresses it will be. That was my point. I did add a little shock value to it but it is true, unchecked cardiomyopathy will putt us in the grave early. It's the reason so many bbers have been falling over dead the last 15 years. Hell we've had a few heart attacks on this forum the last few years. It can happen.

Biggest thing is to get that damn BP down. Go to a true trt dose for a while and get everything under control. That's what I would do

Also, I did post above about getting echos. I've had a couple done now and I will continue to in the future. Probably every other year

I found a few reasons for high blood pressure. It’s already better. I’m measuring it 5-10 times a day.

How was your echo ? Did you notice effect of HGH?

I bet most of people who commented here don’t know a lot about enlarged heart and don’t really do echos...
 
Idk maybe Im just reckless, but LVH is kind of expected in this lifestyle. If everyone here had an ultrasound and/or echo Im sure plenty would have larger hearts. I had to have an echo when I had PEs and mine was significantly enlarged but still functioning fine and the cardiologist didn't seem concerned at all.

Then again Im single with no kids. I might be more concerned if I had a household relying on me.
 
Idk maybe Im just reckless, but LVH is kind of expected in this lifestyle. If everyone here had an ultrasound and/or echo Im sure plenty would have larger hearts. I had to have an echo when I had PEs and mine was significantly enlarged but still functioning fine and the cardiologist didn't seem concerned at all.

Then again Im single with no kids. I might be more concerned if I had a household relying on me.

When looking death straight in the face you might think differently.

Not saying you're full of shit, but when time comes you could say to yourself "fuck I wish I hadn't done that"

Life is fleeting, guaranteed no one goes around saying "yeah dying young ain't bad"

Just my perspective, not critical of you.
 
I found a few reasons for high blood pressure. It’s already better. I’m measuring it 5-10 times a day.

How was your echo ? Did you notice effect of HGH?

I bet most of people who commented here don’t know a lot about enlarged heart and don’t really do echos...
My echo was perfect. I've never went above 4iu and only did that for shorter periods of time. I've also been running 1500mg of 95% circumin daily for almost a year. Who knows if that's made any difference or not. But I've been relatively moderate with gear for the majority of my lifting career except one real hard run that made me feel like shit.
 
When looking death straight in the face you might think differently.

Not saying you're full of shit, but when time comes you could say to yourself "fuck I wish I hadn't done that"

Life is fleeting, guaranteed no one goes around saying "yeah dying young ain't bad"

Just my perspective, not critical of you.

That gets into personal beliefs about spirituality and the hereafter or lackthereof, but that isn't really the point I was trying to make. I could have been more clear.

Im just saying that I don't think an enlarged left ventricle is a death sentence. It's extremely common among athletes both natural and enhanced. If there are issues with how it's performing that's another story, but everyone telling him to give up on using gear and change his life is a bit premature from my perspective.
 
I would stop all gear if it were me. And just do TRT to be in mid-range under Docs supervision.
Fake muscles for a while isnt worth long-term health...

Very good point here. To me, living til 90 and seeing the world change and grandchildren grow up, essentially being a walking piece of history is much more important to me than being a jacked meat head and only living til 40-50. You can still look much better than average on TRT doses, it's still an advantage over being completely natural.
 
My echo was perfect. I've never went above 4iu and only did that for shorter periods of time. I've also been running 1500mg of 95% circumin daily for almost a year. Who knows if that's made any difference or not. But I've been relatively moderate with gear for the majority of my lifting career except one real hard run that made me feel like shit.
I never went above 4iu, usually 2-3IU. But I do it daily. I'm on low doses of gear never went high. Only primo I went high because it's super mild.
So according to the doctors it's blood pressure. I also have thick blood which raises BP as well. Never was able to donate. I will have to start. Btw, how circumin helps ?

Idk maybe Im just reckless, but LVH is kind of expected in this lifestyle. If everyone here had an ultrasound and/or echo Im sure plenty would have larger hearts. I had to have an echo when I had PEs and mine was significantly enlarged but still functioning fine and the cardiologist didn't seem concerned at all.

Then again Im single with no kids. I might be more concerned if I had a household relying on me.
That's my point, all those people who were giving tips and advices have enlarged heart but never did ultra sound

Very good point here. To me, living til 90 and seeing the world change and grandchildren grow up, essentially being a walking piece of history is much more important to me than being a jacked meat head and only living til 40-50. You can still look much better than average on TRT doses, it's still an advantage over being completely natural.
Have you ever done echo ? Looking at your profile photo I can tell you have enlarged heart as many other lifter.
 
Makes sense. Thank you for the feedback. You do HGH as well afaik. Do you check your heart? I know that HGH will make everything grow, but what about 2iu? It’s Literally nothing. I wonder if that much will still grow someone’s heart.

I think most of people don’t do checks and i caught the issue early enough. Will be working on fixing it.

- - - Updated - - -


Makes sense. Thank you for the feedback. You do HGH as well afaik. Do you check your heart? I know that HGH will make everything grow, but what about 2iu? It’s Literally nothing. I wonder if that much will still grow someone’s heart.

I think most of people don’t do checks and i caught the issue early enough. Will be working on fixing it.

I am prescribed Adderall, have been forever, try to take smaller doses, don't use as much caffeine, on days you can afford to be sluggish don't take it, give your body breaks, this shit is Amphetamines, this shit is like using NOS on a car. Eat a lot of regular oatmeal for cholesterol! Drink a lot of water, do some yoga like sessions where you learn to lower your heart rate and blood pressure through breathing and calming your mind.
 
A lot of great points in this thread..1-yes enlarged heart is part of this lifestyle,some are lucky..2-everyone is different,however Tren at any dose has drawn backs..3-as lifters we tend to shy away from cardio,which bites us in the ass the older we get..4-would just plan on getting a hand on this before it gets out of hand.. didn't get your age in all of this,but as you age 40+ is when you need to look at everything and be able to understand labs...IF YOU LEAVE IT TO OTHERS to tell you what's wrong,you'll be let down and sorry..I have had many arguments with Dr.s over the last 4 years..and ER Dr.s are the worst..a good Dr. is worth his weight in gold..but finding one can be a task..this is a wake-up call,you need to make some changes..good luck and Godspeed
 
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