Just saw and respondedLooks like I will get my sample off to Jano today, also have my serum and IGF-1 blood draw on monday, over 600.00 in testing.
Haven't heard from malfeasance
HGH is expensive and often faked so about 1 year ago I began testing HGH using HGH serum and IGF-1 testing via blood work. During this period of time the real world experience of testing HGH led me down an exciting road of research and learning. It is my hope to share my experiences and the science behind HGH testing so that HGH users may know for sure that the products they are injecting are genuine.
The Protocol
10 iu rHGH Intramuscular injection (IM)
Have your blood drawn 3-4 hours after injecting.
Fasting is not necessary.
No strenuous activity for at least 30 min prior to test.
With a 10iu vial, inject 1 ml (cc) into the vial that contains the GH powder/puck. Direct the stream of water down the side of the glass, being careful not to direct the stream of water directly into the GH powder; swirl gently until the powder is completely dissolved in the solution. DO NOT SHAKE THE VIAL.
*WARNING* GH serum testing is a crude method for confirming GH potency.
What do the results mean? My research and experiences indicate that injecting 10iu IM of pharmaceutical grade rHGH yields a serum level of between 15-50+ ng/mL in most cases. However this is a general range and should not be interpreted to form a strong opinion about the potency of HGH products. Several tests should be performed to determine an individualistic response.
Originally I began serum testing after injecting HGH subcutaneously (SC) however after some research and several lab tests I determined that SC injections did not raise GH serum levels as much as IM injections.(1)(2) This led to confusion as other users were injecting IM which made their results look dramatically better. In order to avoid confusion several veterans including myself decided to adopt IM as the standard method for testing serum HGH levels. What we learned along the way was quite interesting.
Several men were getting fantastic results with various brands of underground and overseas HGH but I and another man were getting mediocre results at best. It seemed as though we were just unlucky. Our serum levels routinely fell 10-20 ng/mL lower than the others results. After about a half a dozen lab tests I decided to administer Canadian pharmacy HGH to help determine my response to a known potency of HGH. My results were staggering. My serum levels again fell short of what was expected. I tested less than 20 ng/mL. At that time I concluded that I was a low responder to HGH and that serum testing was a crude method at best for proving HGH.
However a pattern was forming for me. 10iu of HGH was resulting in a range of about 14-24 ng/mL. This has given me a personal range that reflects real world experience not just some text book answer. The studies indicate that I should respond higher. The real world disagrees. Why?
Maybe it’s my body weight or maybe my size (surface area). Maybe I just don’t respond well to HGH. Maybe it’s something else. My journey to find out left me questioning. Those questions led me to more research. I still feel like the answer is somewhat elusive but what I discovered next gave me a balanced understanding of just how crude GH serum testing is.
In 2004 a study was conducted that measured GH antibodies in children who had received Growth Hormone over a 6 month period. 4 of the 47 children showed the presence of antibodies against rhGH. The researchers concluded that the main concern with anti-GH antibodies could be their ability to neutralize circulating growth hormone and inhibit its growth promoting effect.(3) Therefore we must be careful not to erroneously conclude a batch of GH is fake if a user’s results are substandard. This supports the view that several lab tests should be conducted with a known potency of rHGH. This will prove if the subject is a low responder to rHGH.
Although this serum method is crude it does provide valuable insight. I have a known response to USA pharmacy rHGH. If an UGL or overseas product can elevate my GH levels as high as the US pharmacy GH I can be relatively confident that my GH is genuine.
It is my hope that many users follow this protocol and record their responses here so we can further understand how injecting rHGH affects serum levels in a wide range of people. This will increase our knowledge and also protect members against those who sell fake products.
Vision pretty much nailed it so I do not have much to add.
I have watched this thread evolve and a lot of good things have come to light.
My .02
I hate to add ambiguity to this subject and for some sources they could use this information to muddle the truth so what I have to offer is not so much fact but personal experience…..aka Bro-Science
I have had IGF levels drop from 278 to 154 four months later, same batch GH.
IGF levels can drop from stressed liver, cutting and some believe your body will start producing GH antibodies. Time off will help these numbers improve.
Another thing, Quest Labs interprets IGF levels different compared to Labs MD. As my experience I used Quest as the numbers seemed more reliable. But, after moving to a different region in the country, the exact opposite was true.
Some guys produce more IGF than others.
Another personal observation, GH acts almost immediately with me, four weeks in and I can tell the difference. That might be because I do not produce any GH at this age so it has more of an immediate effect. Those who say it takes six months are either parroting bad information or I am a super responder.
Take all that for what it is worth.
My bottom line, GH Serum and IGF are not so cut and dry. Should we be suspicious? Hell yes, but placing all GH validity based on those two analysis is not cut and dry.
I agree with you Rehh, and I personally think it's kind of the same when it comes to gear to. Meaning we could both be taking 250mg of Test E, and your results could come back at 2300 and mine could comeback at 1500. Would you agree with that?Thanks for sharing Skip, I agree, serum and IGF-1 testing has value but you can't rely on it as the absolute truth with just one bad test result.
Seems like I've seen bad test results with every hgh seller on this forum; Pharmacom, mauve tops from the source, ace labs, etc etc.
Vision pretty much nailed it so I do not have much to add.
I have watched this thread evolve and a lot of good things have come to light.
My .02
I hate to add ambiguity to this subject and for some sources they could use this information to muddle the truth so what I have to offer is not so much fact but personal experience…..aka Bro-Science
I have had IGF levels drop from 278 to 154 four months later, same batch GH.
IGF levels can drop from stressed liver, cutting and some believe your body will start producing GH antibodies. Time off will help these numbers improve.
Another thing, Quest Labs interprets IGF levels different compared to Labs MD. As my experience I used Quest as the numbers seemed more reliable. But, after moving to a different region in the country, the exact opposite was true.
Some guys produce more IGF than others.
Another personal observation, GH acts almost immediately with me, four weeks in and I can tell the difference. That might be because I do not produce any GH at this age so it has more of an immediate effect. Those who say it takes six months are either parroting bad information or I am a super responder.
Take all that for what it is worth.
My bottom line, GH Serum and IGF are not so cut and dry. Should we be suspicious? Hell yes, but placing all GH validity based on those two analysis is not cut and dry.
I agree with you Rehh, and I personally think it's kind of the same when it comes to gear to. Meaning we could both be taking 250mg of Test E, and your results could come back at 2300 and mine could comeback at 1500. Would you agree with that?
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Can definitely feel the 10iu, injected a weeks worth at one time since I was taking 2iu 5x a week previously...lol. Most I'd ever taken in one day before is 4iu. Made me nervous, rapid heart rate, hot and sweaty and a bit tired and lethargic. Haven't checked BP yet but feels elevated.
Can definitely feel the 10iu, injected a weeks worth at one time since I was taking 2iu 5x a week previously...lol. Most I'd ever taken in one day before is 4iu. Made me nervous, rapid heart rate, hot and sweaty and a bit tired and lethargic. Haven't checked BP yet but feels elevated.
When I did mine recently, I came home and had coffee, ate and sat down to watch Television, about 1 hour later(I thought); I woke up and it was 9pm!! Tripped me out! Omg.
Max
That’s funny I never had any issues when injecting 10iu for serum testing.
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Brother it probably wasn't your blood pressure is probably your blood sugar. I have never had a problem even at 10iu's for a serum test, but I know I've heard some people say their blood sugar rises almost as much as it would On insulin. Now I believe on a serum test you have to be fasted? It's been 2 years or 3 since I've done one...Started 3iu today. Will pull igf again after 4 weeks
Didn't check bp yesterday but today fine so far, usually my BP goes up with hgh use in relation to weight gain from water retention mostly.
I always got really high blood pressure from gnarly water retention when I tested serum. My ankles would get so swollen it would hurt to walk around lol. Blood sugar doesn't go up much if you're fasted, but when you eat it skyrocketsBrother it probably wasn't your blood pressure is probably your blood sugar. I have never had a problem even at 10iu's for a serum test, but I know I've heard some people say their blood sugar rises almost as much as it would On insulin. Now I believe on a serum test you have to be fasted? It's been 2 years or 3 since I've done one...
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It's a serum test. We've seen plenty of high serum tests with terrible IGF-1 in the past, from plenty of vendors. It doesn't mean much anymore honestly. With all the additional speculation about IGF-1 scores now too, who knows about that now. Although I still take them in higher regard than serum these days.I post excellent bloodwork on the same orangetops that Malfeasance is using and now nothing but crickets....
Is there a date on that test im not seeing? " Everybody is thinking it, i'm just saying it". Thanks!
It's a serum test. We've seen plenty of high serum tests with terrible IGF-1 in the past, from plenty of vendors. It doesn't mean much anymore honestly. With all the additional speculation about IGF-1 scores now too, who knows about that now. Although I still take them in higher regard than serum these days.
I'm waiting for the Jano results on one of Malf's vials. That will be the end all to this whole discussion. It's going to show that either the GH is good and IGF-1 testing can be skewed in a huge way by other influences (the outcome I hope for), or that it's bunk and the IGF-1 testing is a good marker. That will show the actual truth to this whole deal.
There's been a lot of bad IGF-1 scores on Puretropins now. 4 I do believe. In fact, there hasn't been a single good one since the first bad score that Killion drew. So that's why I'm waiting. I want to know the actual truth one way or another, whether it's that IGF is a poor test or that exact batch is bunk. I'm sure most of the others are waiting on that as well.
You know we trust you. Same with the dates on the bloods as far as I’m concerned.I'm not sure he even sent out the samples, last time I heard from him he never agreed to send the vials and said he was worried about his security.
So I guess my samples won't count huh....lol
Is there a date on that test im not seeing? " Everybody is thinking it, i'm just saying it". Thanks!
You know we trust you. Same with the dates on the bloods as far as I’m concerned.
It's a serum test. We've seen plenty of high serum tests with terrible IGF-1 in the past, from plenty of vendors. It doesn't mean much anymore honestly. With all the additional speculation about IGF-1 scores now too, who knows about that now. Although I still take them in higher regard than serum these days.
I'm waiting for the Jano results on one of Malf's vials. That will be the end all to this whole discussion. It's going to show that either the GH is good and IGF-1 testing can be skewed in a huge way by other influences (the outcome I hope for), or that it's bunk and the IGF-1 testing is a good marker. That will show the actual truth to this whole deal.
There's been a lot of bad IGF-1 scores on Puretropins now. 4 I do believe. In fact, there hasn't been a single good one since the first bad score that Killion drew. So that's why I'm waiting. I want to know the actual truth one way or another, whether it's that IGF is a poor test or that exact batch is bunk. I'm sure most of the others are waiting on that as well.
Lol nah I trust your sample man. I would've liked to see it come from the exact box in question but an HPLC test is an HPLC test. Some people might not believe it because of the rep thing but thinking places send one thing to reps and another to regular customers is a little far fetched. Different actual batches are another story obviously.I'm not sure he even sent out the samples, last time I heard from him he never agreed to send the vials and said he was worried about his security.
So I guess my samples won't count huh....lol