Lagging shoulders

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  1. #16
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    Had that issue too a long time ago. I hated shoulders. One day I said fuck it and started doing heavy presses and never looked back. Standing OHP is what single handedly changed the game for me. I'm talking HEAVY. Now they're one of my best body parts.... let's not talk about calves. Next on my list.

    I'll do two different heavy presses but I always do standing OHP first. Get up to your 5 rep range or so and hammer them out for 3-4 sets. Start strict and work in some knee drive/pop to finish it out. For me that's around 275# then I'll keep 135# on while racking the weight and do one set of 15 before I move on. After that it's normally seated DB presses or smith then I'll do some fluff high rep iso stuff for a nasty pump. What also changed is that I dedicate a whole day to shoulders instead of just tacking them on to another workout. Lets you focus and take your time to get some extra volume.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayhem124 View Post
    Yep, more good advice. Mind to muscle connection! Focus on the muscle you are targeting, time under tension, and controlled repetitions, full contraction, and controlled concentric movement all make a world of difference.

    When you feel it, you'll know.....
    Looks like I was preaching to the choir. Good stuff bro. Something else to note: when doing dumbbell raises, keep your elbow bent just a little. And over head presses: keep your elbows slightly In front of you and not directly to the sides.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LimitPhobic View Post
    Looks like I was preaching to the choir. Good stuff bro. Something else to note: when doing dumbbell raises, keep your elbow bent just a little. And over head presses: keep your elbows slightly In front of you and not directly to the sides.
    Nah, I was just agreeing with you advice for the OP. This wasn't my thread or issue. I posted some advice early on but this is someone else's deal.

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    I want to suggest the Oxford training principle.

    Instead of pyramiding up and down or just up in your weights.

    Start at your heaviest weight first while you are the strongest. And drop down in weight as you get more fatigued keeping with maximum intensity.

    Of course a proper warm up should be employed prior to starting.

    I trained this way for a long time bc it just made sense to me as I was trying to get my strongest.

    Good luck


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  5. #20
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    Have you ever considered the Mountain Dog system you mention so much doesnít work for YOU?
    When I was doing person physical training I didnít use the sameeverything on everybody.

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    Whatís the verdict on standing vs seated OHP?
    Seated definitely tends to feel safer on my neck, standing is where Iíve usually come away with issues in the days following.

    Since posting this thread Iíve swapped an exercise for light OHPís to my chest day to finish it off, and added at the start of my shoulder day heavy pressing as well as reduced volume a bit.

    Todayís training went as follows:

    1.Seated BB OHP,
    -Sets of 6-10 warming up, 2 sets to failure @ 5-6 reps

    2.Rear delt machine flyes,
    -Sets of 15, adding weight until couldnít hit 15, ended up being about 3 heavy work sets

    3.Lying side delt cable raises
    -3 sets of 10-15(failure on last set with an isohold)

    4.Arnold press
    -2 sets of 10

    5. Heavy rear delt partials to failure, stood up and into side delt partials to failure, 1 set

    This still look like too much volume?


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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachCabo View Post
    Have you ever considered the Mountain Dog system you mention so much doesnít work for YOU?
    When I was doing person physical training I didnít use the sameeverything on everybody.
    Iíve probably made it sound like Iím a massive MD fanboy from my few posts on here, which I do love his programs and mentality, but Iím not exclusively sold on everything he puts out. I tend to rotate back to it more frequently than most as, yes, his programs have worked wonders for me with literally every body part except shoulders. That being said Iím not opposed to anything and have even used other coaches, should I find a new style that does me well.


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    Iíll also say that in the last two shoulder days, starting with OHP has made the workout a shit ton more satisfying. Going into any other exercise my delts actually feel way more focused.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
    Whatís the verdict on standing vs seated OHP?
    Seated definitely tends to feel safer on my neck, standing is where Iíve usually come away with issues in the days following.

    Since posting this thread Iíve swapped an exercise for light OHPís to my chest day to finish it off, and added at the start of my shoulder day heavy pressing as well as reduced volume a bit.

    Todayís training went as follows:

    1.Seated BB OHP,
    -Sets of 6-10 warming up, 2 sets to failure @ 5-6 reps

    2.Rear delt machine flyes,
    -Sets of 15, adding weight until couldnít hit 15, ended up being about 3 heavy work sets

    3.Lying side delt cable raises
    -3 sets of 10-15(failure on last set with an isohold)

    4.Arnold press
    -2 sets of 10

    5. Heavy rear delt partials to failure, stood up and into side delt partials to failure, 1 set

    This still look like too much volume?


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    I prefer standing overhead press for a few reasons.

    First, you engage more muscles and core while standing.

    Next, for most, you are stronger in the standing position so you'll push more weight, build strength faster.

    Last, you can push further in a set and push more weight by doing a set or 2, or the last few reps as a push press if needed.

    .......

    As for volume, as I said in my very 1st post and others have mentioned as well, I work each muscle group with a heavy day and volume day each week. Rotate back and forth. You'll build strength and get good hypertrophy work in that way.

    Finally, 2 heavy sets is not enough IMO. After warm-up, I do 4-5 heavy sets and sometimes a drop set afterwards to burn em out good.

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    Stronger in standing? That has not been my experience. Maybe it's because I have more confidence in a seated BB OHP rack because I have a spotter and he's in a good position to help if shit gets sideways. My heaviest presses have been seated.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin13 View Post
    Something that worked for me is doing Db laterals twice during my shoulder workout. After warming up I do them as my first exercise with a heavy weight and a little bit of cheating. Then I do them again as my last exceeding with a light weight and strict form.
    This form of training seems very effective.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SloppyJ View Post
    Stronger in standing? That has not been my experience. Maybe it's because I have more confidence in a seated BB OHP rack because I have a spotter and he's in a good position to help if shit gets sideways. My heaviest presses have been seated.
    Have to agree.

    So much more core needed in standing. So heavier weights must be sacrificed.

    Donít get me wrong, if someone can overhead press 225 in standing then thatís awesome


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    Quote Originally Posted by SloppyJ View Post
    Stronger in standing? That has not been my experience. Maybe it's because I have more confidence in a seated BB OHP rack because I have a spotter and he's in a good position to help if shit gets sideways. My heaviest presses have been seated.
    Agreed, Iím not ďstrongĒ on either but thereís a significant difference between the two. I can usually put at least 145-155 up for a few seated, Iím lucky to put up 135 standing with decent form


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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachCabo View Post
    Have you ever considered the Mountain Dog system you mention so much doesnít work for YOU?
    When I was doing person physical training I didnít use the sameeverything on everybody.
    Iím thinking the same thing. Iíve ran several of Johns programs and everytime I regress. I get weaker and lose muscle. Theyíre good programs but they donít work for everyone. Iím not of those people that think all routines work for everyone not even all otherwise good routines.

  15. #30
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    I think pushups have lead to my shoulders being fairly developed. I donít do ďheavyĒ shoulder anything really. I exhaust them pretty good on shoulder day.

    as far as lifting exercises whilst on your feet vs on your ass Iíd say the advantage of standing would be more core engagement and more total body engagement will lead to more calorie burn. Iím not sure the science supports standing lifts to promote any more muscle gains in any specific muscle group tho. I just know when I was playing sports my coaches always emphasized lifting workouts while on my feet are better than those where youíre seated or laying down for functionality. Thereís a specific scientific word for it but I canít remember. I think that athlean x guy did a show about it. You could check that out he seems pretty on point. Jeff something or rather is his name.

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