experienced juicers-be honest!

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  1. #31
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    I always thought there were diminishing returns past a certain amount. Even on 400mg test c and 200 deca, I end up gaining 15-20lbs, I walk up my stairs and feel like I'm fighting for my life. I can't imagine taking 800-1000.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noek View Post
    I always thought there were diminishing returns past a certain amount. Even on 400mg test c and 200 deca, I end up gaining 15-20lbs, I walk up my stairs and feel like I'm fighting for my life. I can't imagine taking 800-1000.
    If youíve ran multiple cycles and your gaining 15-20lbs per cycle of test and deca than Iíd be willing to bet 80% or more of that is water and you need to control your estrogen better. No one is gaining 15-20lbs of muscle every cycle they run not even top pros thatís just not realistic. Letís say you start at 225lb and 5 cycles later your 325lbs and the same bf? I think not.

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    They may gain 15-20 every cycle but they lose most of it by time they run their next cycle.

  4. #34
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    Thanks guys-Good stuff! Let's all stay healthy and strong w/ the least amount to do so! Thanks again for your replies!

  5. #35
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    It you eat enough, more is better. And everyone is different. Some are hyper responders and some are poor responders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vision View Post
    I have had probably some of the best cycles on testosterone only, doing those time frames it was all I could get, I made the best of it and I believe I can honestly say they were probably the best cycles I ran , hands down.
    everything was easy to gauge, I felt like an absolute bulldozer and I just felt great.. my dosages would range between 500 or a 1000.. at 1000 with test only I felt like an absolute beast. I did not have an AI but I did have tamoxifen. and that was one of the few times that I did not have a serious acne breakout go figure.
    U know what man, that's exactly what i'm doing right now, (gram) and i feel much better than i did on a FULL cycle. (oral, pre w/o, deca, provi) think i'm getting too old for all this shit!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hot rod View Post
    U know what man, that's exactly what i'm doing right now, (gram) and i feel much better than i did on a FULL cycle. (oral, pre w/o, deca, provi) think i'm getting too old for all this shit!
    A gram is test only is a fun ride, it's not entirely necessary, but it's fun. It's inexpensive and can bring some beast gains. I always use mast/provi, and for the most part nandrolone in the back ground low or moderate. But test only has been done many times by myself with great returns. I wouldn't think of it if I didn't have tamoxifen. I swear with tamox only I had hardly any acne..

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by hot rod View Post
    ok, i'll bite. what do u mean bound and how do u unbind it? lol Seriously, what's the best way to up your free test?
    Many orals free up test, provi is useful for that, anavar is one of my favorites, frees test, gets you strong, cuts fat.

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    Truth be told I recently had one of the best overall cycles I've ever done and it was only 350mg a test prop per week for 8 weeks on top of 150mg or test cyp for trt. The best overall cycle appearance wise and size. I've done big bulking cycles and a few cutting cycles but this cycle was just awesome as far as how I felt, added about 8lbs of good lean muscle after I came off and settled down, and even got a little leaner looking and more vascular. It was the final nail in the coffin for long and heavy amount cycles for me.

  10. #40
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    I'm not sure the broliology around this is solid. SHBG and albumin and other proteins carry the hormones around the body. You don't want to crush the carrier system. You want the steroids to get around. Another thing that might not be understood is that the steroids are not tightly bound to these things. They are in equilibrium with the protein with their very on dissociation constant. So they are on and off... on and off etc in a constant exchange. 1/2 of the hormones are bound but you can consider them in transit getting to their tissue destination and delivered. These proteins are always in some state approaching saturation since they are in an equilibrium state with hormone. i probably would not mess with the carrier system unless a huge amount of testosterone was bound... i mean out of range and probably significantly out of range i.e. very high measured SHBG.

    You can think of it like this: Normally, for the sake of this simple example, assume you might have 700 ng/dL under healthy natti conditions. Next, you're on 600 test and 400 deca. Now your total test is 3300 ng/dL and nandrolone at 2000 ng/dL. You should expect the carriers to be overexpressed. So more of the proteins out there and more hormone bound and probably mroe saturalted (although the dissociation constant stays the same). Now, under natural conditions ~350 ng/dL is free (50%). Under "on" conditions lets say 65% is bound. Therefore 1155 ng/dL free test and 700 ng/dL free nandrolone.

    Compared to natural you still have 3-4 times the free hormone than naturally.

    Also note that the free hormone can be metabolized. So the more free you have available the more hormone the sulphotransferases and gulcuronic acid transferases and so on will have to convert for excretion. So you may be pissing away a lot of hormone if you unbind more of it than necessary. In the end by whacking your SHBG you may compromise the carreir system and hypermetabolize your hormone. To some extend the metabolism side of it is going to happen at some level since so much hormone is free compared to normal conditions. One might expect to see some high SHBG as a compensation mechanism. In the case where it is very high maybe a little intervention but not sure how much difference it would make in the end. To have an additional 5-7% of a 3-4 fold increase available.. how much difference does that really make? You're talking about 50-100 ng/dL more free hormone.

    I'm pretty sure you would make more difference getting a good training partner and upping the protein 100 g/d. 600 test and 400 deca is plenty of hormone for growth for the intermediate user. Just needs to be feed and then body shocked with training so as to adapt. That's it.

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