experienced juicers-be honest!

[hot rod]

I know i've seen alot of u guys post that u get just as much bang for your buck doing 500 mg of test as u do doing a gram. Is that the general consensus? And i've seen alot of u post that u stay away from orals altogether. I' m not sure I've ever stuck to 500 w/o cheating here or there so....... And, it's been a long time since I've done a test only cycle.(no orals) what is your experience? It's only been a couple of weeks since I quit the t-bol and dropped the test-so far, so good.

 

[DirtySuperman]

I know i've seen alot of u guys post that u get just as much bang for your buck doing 500 mg of test as u do doing a gram. Is that the general consensus? And i've seen alot of u post that u stay away from orals altogether. I' m not sure I've ever stuck to 500 w/o cheating here or there so....... And, it's been a long time since I've done a test only cycle.(no orals) what is your experience? It's only been a couple of weeks since I quit the t-bol and dropped the test-so far, so good.

My sweet spot for test (blast) is around 800 mgs ew.
The best protocol for me is to do another compound, (let's say Deca) with test for 8-10 weeks,
Then switch the deca for tren e,
Or something similar. Switching compounds after 8 weeks or so really throws me over any plateau I may have reached. I just recently did this with the injectables but I added some sdrol pre-workout and exploded with the gains.
Also, when you reach a certain muscle mass, you inherently need more test during the blast if you plan on getting any bigger.

 

[malfeasance]

I know i've seen alot of u guys post that u get just as much bang for your buck doing 500 mg of test as u do doing a gram. Is that the general consensus? And i've seen alot of u post that u stay away from orals altogether. I' m not sure I've ever stuck to 500 w/o cheating here or there so....... And, it's been a long time since I've done a test only cycle.(no orals) what is your experience? It's only been a couple of weeks since I quit the t-bol and dropped the test-so far, so good.

LOL! No. Not at all. Doses go up, certain compounds added in, results get better. The main problem for me is sides, and, at my age, some of them are worse. There is a size dose relationship. As you grow into the results of 500mg of testosterone, simply doing 500 mg is only going to support so much additional muscle tissue, just like your natty levels only support so much (and much less than the 500mg will support). Higher doses and additional compounds will add more.

That does not mean a beginner should start with an IFBB pro's cycle. It just means one grows into higher doses. I hope that last statement makes sense.

If this were not so, then Olympia competitors would all be on 500mg of testosterone battling it out on the Olympia stage . . .

 

[E.J.D]

I know i've seen alot of u guys post that u get just as much bang for your buck doing 500 mg of test as u do doing a gram. Is that the general consensus? And i've seen alot of u post that u stay away from orals altogether. I' m not sure I've ever stuck to 500 w/o cheating here or there so....... And, it's been a long time since I've done a test only cycle.(no orals) what is your experience? It's only been a couple of weeks since I quit the t-bol and dropped the test-so far, so good.

I'm no expert but I've heard many people say the difference between 750mg test weekly and a gram is very little. Also quite a few guys say only run a gram total of everything per week. The returns on running more than 750 MGS isnt there for the normal individual. On orals I Know dbol filters thru the liver twice and is very hard on some individuals. I think but could be wrong some other orals filter twice as well. which is why people stay away completely or just bare it out for 4 to maybe 6 weeks. If I'm wrong someone correct me

 

[Killionb12]

LOL! No. Not at all. Doses go up, certain compounds added in, results get better. The main problem for me is sides, and, at my age, some of them are worse. There is a size dose relationship. As you grow into the results of 500mg of testosterone, simply doing 500 mg is only going to support so much additional muscle tissue, just like your natty levels only support so much (and much less than the 500mg will support). Higher doses and additional compounds will add more.

That does not mean a beginner should start with an IFBB pro's cycle. It just means one grows into higher doses. I hope that last statement makes sense.

If this were not so, then Olympia competitors would all be on 500mg of testosterone battling it out on the Olympia stage . . .

Couldn’t agree more. The beginning of my offseason prep for contest I was at 1gram Of test and 400mg Deca. Definitely saw better results than 500mg and didn’t have any more sides. My body seems to be getting used to higher dosages. I put on 28lbs of quality mass which is the most I have ever gained. Obviously nutrition/calories were higher than its ever been as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Multislacking]

Free test is where it's at. If you're running extra test and it's still mostly bound, then you didn't get any real benefit by doubling down on that dose.

In before anyone said "compound xyz really shines at 1g ew".

 

[lifter916]

I know i've seen alot of u guys post that u get just as much bang for your buck doing 500 mg of test as u do doing a gram. Is that the general consensus? And i've seen alot of u post that u stay away from orals altogether. I' m not sure I've ever stuck to 500 w/o cheating here or there so....... And, it's been a long time since I've done a test only cycle.(no orals) what is your experience? It's only been a couple of weeks since I quit the t-bol and dropped the test-so far, so good.

If u run 500mg Test solo versus 1gram solo and ate and trained the same each cycle, you will make more gains on the 1g. You will also have more sides, need more AI, BP may go up, might lose more hair, acne, ect..

I ran a gram solo a few months ago and had good results. When adding anabolics and/or orals I drop the test down to a Max of 750 nowadays.

Sent from my moto g stylus using Tapatalk

 

[hot rod]

Free test is where it's at. If you're running extra test and it's still mostly bound, then you didn't get any real benefit by doubling down on that dose.

In before anyone said "compound xyz really shines at 1g ew".

ok, i'll bite. what do u mean bound and how do u unbind it? lol Seriously, what's the best way to up your free test?

 

[Multislacking]

ok, i'll bite. what do u mean bound and how do u unbind it? lol Seriously, what's the best way to up your free test?

I sound like a broken record but....Vision has an excellent mast/provi writeup and labs to show results. I'm kind of a KISS (keep it simple stupid) guy myself and will usually just run mast in my mix. But that's me being cheap and lazy. Even at just trt dose, I like to add a little mast.

 

[heckler7]

ok, i'll bite. what do u mean bound and how do u unbind it? lol Seriously, what's the best way to up your free test?

mast and provi

 

[Killionb12]

ok, i'll bite. what do u mean bound and how do u unbind it? lol Seriously, what's the best way to up your free test?

Proviron honestly seems to do the job on its own. My free test was half of total test when running Proviron which is crazy high. I was at 2300 Total test and 1140 free Test when I added in Proviron at 75mg a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hot rod]

mast and provi

I love provi, just taking a little break( not sure why). not a big fan of mast. but only tried it once. made my fuckin hair fall out and didn't seem to do a whole lot. then again, most of what provi does is kinda hidden in a way. maybe I should give it another shot.( pun intended) not sure about my source at that time either so........

 

[heavyiron]

More Test is better but guys that eat 2k calories wont see a difference because they aren't eating for it.

 

[CowboyPump77]

I am still learning from y'all. So I can not add much. I do know my body likes this shit....and I suspect I am able to handle more than most rookies. I know I am on Basicstero pharma mix 6 1 cc and and half a cc of of Pharma Nolt blend. I have gained incredible strength in 3 months(was on 600mg of Sust and 300mg of the nolt mix). I have lost fat and added good muscle. I look like Flair in his late 40
s basically...instead of King Kong Bundy...lol... when I started.... Next stop is Triple HHH in his 2002ish prime!!!! WOOOOOOOOO!!

 

[malfeasance]

More Test is better but guys that eat 2k calories wont see a difference because they aren't eating for it.

How can anybody eat 2000 calories? I would feel like I was dying of starvation.

 

[Killionb12]

How can anybody eat 2000 calories? I would feel like I was dying of starvation.

Hell 2000 calories during the last 4-6 weeks of my contest prep would have felt like a buffet!! LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[malfeasance]

Hell 2000 calories during the last 4-6 weeks of my contest prep would have felt like a buffet!! LOL

That's why I am skinny fat and you just won overall . . .

 

[Diesel618]

I like my test over a gram for blasts. That's the base of any cycle I put together for myself. Just a personal preference. I notice a big difference in aggression, pumps, strength, and appetite at that level. I would never run it at 500 mg.

 

[Skip Foursome]

Not to bag on anyone, and I have run ridiculous amounts myself in the beginning so let's just get that part out of the way

No one here trying lowest doses for best results, or very few.

If you compared pound for pound dosage of tren for cows and guys here on this forum it is crazy.

And then you see arguments on how much pros abuse AAS. Let's say they do, how many pros have either died an early death or are hobbled like a 90 year old at 40 years of age.

No thanks

 

[Montego]

Not to bag on anyone, and I have run ridiculous amounts myself in the beginning so let's just get that part out of the way

No one here trying lowest doses for best results, or very few.

If you compared pound for pound dosage of tren for cows and guys here on this forum it is crazy.

And then you see arguments on how much pros abuse AAS. Let's say they do, how many pros have either died an early death or are hobbled like a 90 year old at 40 years of age.

No thanks

Pros also aren't pros because of their cycles.

If that were the case half the forum would be at the Olympia.

Some just don't get it.

 

[Skip Foursome]

Pros also aren't pros because of their cycles.

If that were the case half the forum would be at the Olympia.

Some just don't get it.

I know genetics is #1

But guys here will still argue it is massive doses that make you a monster and honestly I didn't want to bring it up because I know what the ensuing argument was going to be.

 

[TrenTrain]

Massive doses will make you a beast respectively based off your genetics. It will make you a beast for you. Pro bodybuilders are the guys with the best genetics. If you have poor genetics then you wont ever get to that level but you can be a beast compared to yourself and your personal genetics. You just have to decide when the side effects outweighs the benefits.

 

[malfeasance]

Pros also aren't pros because of their cycles.

If that were the case half the forum would be at the Olympia.

Some just don't get it.

Love the new avatar!

 

[Adrenolin]

ok, i'll bite. what do u mean bound and how do u unbind it? lol Seriously, what's the best way to up your free test?

Most any dht based steroids... not just mast and proviron. Superdrol (methylated masteron), primo, oral turinabol, equipoise, etc can all free up testosterone by binding shbg.

I prefer no more than 700mg testosterone with 800-gram of primo or masteron.

 

[Anopolo21]

ok, i'll bite. what do u mean bound and how do u unbind it? lol Seriously, what's the best way to up your free test?

Short acting testosterone esters like prop, or test ace increase your free test levels more then slow acting esters like cyp. Got that info from WesleyInman, when I was looking to burn fat and build muscle on a high test only cycle. So I ran 400 mg of Cyp, and 350mg of test prop. Ran it for 6 weeks before prop ran out. And, Yes I definitely made progress with that combo. Noticed it more then just running 500mg of test cyp weekly for sure. Now when I run 200mg of test cyp weekly vs 500mg of cyp weekly I don't see much difference.

 

[Jswole220]

If your doing things half assed and don’t change anything but the dose of your drugs you won’t see much of a difference. If your eating the way you should as well as training and sleeping then a gram will be superior to 500mg and anyone who has actually tried it themselves will tell you that.

if you want to free up more test which theirs no reason anyone shouldn’t proviron and masteron are king however any dht will free up test. It’s just not feasible to run Winstrol or Superdrol for 12-16 weeks like it is with proviron and mast.

also never compare drug doses for animals to humans. That’s just being ignorant. Theirs a reason race horses only need doses of equipoise at 25-100mg and athletes run it at a gram or higher. The same goes for trenbolone. However I do agree with running the lowest effective dose. I was once the guy who ran grams of gear and swore the results were better. I was ignorant and inexperienced at the time I was doing that and didn’t realize that cutting my doses in half or more was not only healthier but the results were not much different with a lot less sides. Just remember because your bloods are good or you don’t see any current problems when running ridiculous doses doesn’t mean your not doing long term permanent damage to yourself. While blood work is a good indicator and one of our better options to gauge health it won’t tell you everything. You could have a scared fatty liver with an extremely enlarged heart and pull good bloods. The best corse of action is to always keep your long term health as your number one priority and then bodybuilding and everything else with it after that. Just be mindful of what your doing. Don’t ignore the advice you don’t wanna hear but listen to the advice from the meat head at the gym you like.

 

[Jswole220]

Short acting testosterone esters like prop, or test ace increase your free test levels more then slow acting esters like cyp. Got that info from WesleyInman, when I was looking to burn fat and build muscle on a high test only cycle. So I ran 400 mg of Cyp, and 350mg of test prop. Ran it for 6 weeks before prop ran out. And, Yes I definitely made progress with that combo. Noticed it more then just running 500mg of test cyp weekly for sure. Now when I run 200mg of test cyp weekly vs 500mg of cyp weekly I don't see much difference.

more than likely you didn’t yield better results because you ran short esters that someone claimed would lower shbg and free up more testosterone they were better because you were running 750mg instead of 200mg-500mg and you trained with a purpose. I’m not an expert by any means but to my knowledge it’s just bro science that short ester testosterone doesn’t bind to shbg like longer esters do. It’s kinda like the guys who say you won’t convert as much estrogen while running short esters of testosterone. While it may be somewhat true in a sense, when looking at blood work the difference is very slim to none. Out of curiosity did you pull bloods on your free test while running that cycle and compare it to bloods from longer esters?

 

[Vision]

I know i've seen alot of u guys post that u get just as much bang for your buck doing 500 mg of test as u do doing a gram. Is that the general consensus? And i've seen alot of u post that u stay away from orals altogether. I' m not sure I've ever stuck to 500 w/o cheating here or there so....... And, it's been a long time since I've done a test only cycle.(no orals) what is your experience? It's only been a couple of weeks since I quit the t-bol and dropped the test-so far, so good.

I have had probably some of the best cycles on testosterone only, doing those time frames it was all I could get, I made the best of it and I believe I can honestly say they were probably the best cycles I ran , hands down.
everything was easy to gauge, I felt like an absolute bulldozer and I just felt great.. my dosages would range between 500 or a 1000.. at 1000 with test only I felt like an absolute beast. I did not have an AI but I did have tamoxifen. and that was one of the few times that I did not have a serious acne breakout go figure.

 

[TrenTrain]

Most any dht based steroids... not just mast and proviron. Superdrol (methylated masteron), primo, oral turinabol, equipoise, etc can all free up testosterone by binding shbg.

I prefer no more than 700mg testosterone with 800-gram of primo or masteron.

Just to clarify real quick. Equipoise is not a DHT derivative. It’s a testosterone derivative.

 

[Adrenolin]

Just to clarify real quick. Equipoise is not a DHT derivative. It’s a testosterone derivative.

Ya that's my mistake. Appreciate the correction