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Starting TRT

Jakeb1991

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Hi all; I’m looking for some advice. I’m 28 and grossly overweight at 21 stone. I’ve had a set of symptoms for approximately the last ten year, including; weight gain, fatigue, mental cloudiness, aches, low mood, low libido, etc etc. This was before the excess weight too. I’ve tested my testosterone levels privately and they came back as free test - 01.08nmol /l, total test - 4.4 nmol / L and SHBG - 17.6nmol/ L. My gp won’t treat and has just advised buying viagra otc. I’m looking at treating the low levels myself with test Cypionante, but looking for further advice. Thinking about 75mg 1 x per week and then retesting after six weeks to see where the levels are. Can anyone advise whether anything else needs to be taken? In fact any advise is massively appreciated.

Many thanks,
Jake
 
Hi all; I’m looking for some advice. I’m 28 and grossly overweight at 21 stone. I’ve had a set of symptoms for approximately the last ten year, including; weight gain, fatigue, mental cloudiness, aches, low mood, low libido, etc etc. This was before the excess weight too. I’ve tested my testosterone levels privately and they came back as free test - 01.08nmol /l, total test - 4.4 nmol / L and SHBG - 17.6nmol/ L. My gp won’t treat and has just advised buying viagra otc. I’m looking at treating the low levels myself with test Cypionante, but looking for further advice. Thinking about 75mg 1 x per week and then retesting after six weeks to see where the levels are. Can anyone advise whether anything else needs to be taken? In fact any advise is massively appreciated.

Many thanks,
Jake

Hey Jake most of us here are gonna have a hard time understanding your labs or ranges bc tbh, the US ranges and the UK ranges are totally different.

But the mgs per mL is not different. What I will recommend to you from my years working with Endos, is that we found that the most successful dosage in our patients, was patients using 100mgs of either cyp or E, injected every 4th day. When tested, 7 days after the last injection, 90% of patients showed an 800-1200nanogram per decileter range. Not sure what that equates to for the UK, but here that is what is considered natural (240-1100). So for 90% of men in america injecting 100mgs E4d or even say 200mgs every 7th day seemed to put men in the higher range of the scale what is still considered natural.

We also know from studies that HCG at 900iu per week total keeps intracellular test levels in range. It was for this reason, we would prescribe, I would administer 500iu 2x per week, or you can do 300iu MWF and this keeps you at the top of the 'natural" range.

75 a week will not keep you at the top level. It very well might keep you at a mediocre level, but healthier level then you are at. Lets say it puts you at a 500n/dL in US ranges. That is half of the top of the natural scale here. Why would you want to be half, when you can safely be at the top and build muscle faster, lose bodyfat faster and also have a better libido, mood and energy.

Hope this info helps.
 
Hey Jake most of us here are gonna have a hard time understanding your labs or ranges bc tbh, the US ranges and the UK ranges are totally different.

But the mgs per mL is not different. What I will recommend to you from my years working with Endos, is that we found that the most successful dosage in our patients, was patients using 100mgs of either cyp or E, injected every 4th day. When tested, 7 days after the last injection, 90% of patients showed an 800-1200nanogram per decileter range. Not sure what that equates to for the UK, but here that is what is considered natural (240-1100). So for 90% of men in america injecting 100mgs E4d or even say 200mgs every 7th day seemed to put men in the higher range of the scale what is still considered natural.

We also know from studies that HCG at 900iu per week total keeps intracellular test levels in range. It was for this reason, we would prescribe, I would administer 500iu 2x per week, or you can do 300iu MWF and this keeps you at the top of the 'natural" range.

75 a week will not keep you at the top level. It very well might keep you at a mediocre level, but healthier level then you are at. Lets say it puts you at a 500n/dL in US ranges. That is half of the top of the natural scale here. Why would you want to be half, when you can safely be at the top and build muscle faster, lose bodyfat faster and also have a better libido, mood and energy.

Hope this info helps.


Wes your thoughts on all of the TRT regimens that do not include HCG? Personally mine doesn't and I've been trying to study up on it and I want to include it for a few months and see what that does for me. It seems like a piece of the puzzle that no one cares about.
 
Wes your thoughts on all of the TRT regimens that do not include HCG? Personally mine doesn't and I've been trying to study up on it and I want to include it for a few months and see what that does for me. It seems like a piece of the puzzle that no one cares about.

My experiences watching endos treat these patients is that all patients fared better on HCG then without it. Had better overall results, had no libido issues, or ejaculatory volume issues, had higher sperm counts and better moods.

I did HRT for at least a decade with no hcg and now I will not go without it, I do 500iu 2x per week.

Also I believe in using hcg at these dosages on cycle. I have seen that men who cycle even high dosages of steroids, recover faster during PCT because of the fact that they used HCG regularly while on cycle.

I have even seen HCG prescribed and successfully used as HRT replacement believe it or not. HCG and Clomid can be used instead of testosterone and you can still get mid to high readings with both (240-1100). I have one client who was and is all natural, never touched an AAS and he was a 300n/dL consistent. We put him on 25mgs clomid ED and now for several months he has tested out daily at 1100 n/dL. Nice right?
 
That works out to 126.8 ng/dl total test


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
My experiences watching endos treat these patients is that all patients fared better on HCG then without it. Had better overall results, had no libido issues, or ejaculatory volume issues, had higher sperm counts and better moods.

I did HRT for at least a decade with no hcg and now I will not go without it, I do 500iu 2x per week.

Also I believe in using hcg at these dosages on cycle. I have seen that men who cycle even high dosages of steroids, recover faster during PCT because of the fact that they used HCG regularly while on cycle.

I have even seen HCG prescribed and successfully used as HRT replacement believe it or not. HCG and Clomid can be used instead of testosterone and you can still get mid to high readings with both (240-1100). I have one client who was and is all natural, never touched an AAS and he was a 300n/dL consistent. We put him on 25mgs clomid ED and now for several months he has tested out daily at 1100 n/dL. Nice right?

Wes are there any affects on E2 with the use of HCG
 
Wes are there any affects on E2 with the use of HCG

Yes sir.

I saw patients with HCG only HRT with E elevations. Rarely was it necessary for them to use an AI. But with the patients using say 75mgs e4th d or 100mgs e4th day and the hcg, we did see a bit more aromatization and sometimes the Dr. would prescribe a low dose AI.

Funny you should ask bc I worked with several doctors who had no clue what they were doing and would prescribe men 75mgs of test every 3 weeks and 1mg of Arimidex per day along side that and maybe 5000iu of HCG 2x per week LOL.

One of the most mind blowing failures I saw was a Yale endo I worked with told me he refused to dose his patients with HCG bc he had no clue how to dose it LMAO.
Meanwhile various pubmed studies show that 900iu per week total was sufficient in a large population study.

It blows me away how uneducated and ignorant some of these so called "doctors" are. It's embarrassing.

Dr. Thomas O'Connor aka the metabolic doctor is one of the better Docs I worked with and he has a youtube channel if you search him out.
 
Yes sir.

I saw patients with HCG only HRT with E elevations. Rarely was it necessary for them to use an AI. But with the patients using say 75mgs e4th d or 100mgs e4th day and the hcg, we did see a bit more aromatization and sometimes the Dr. would prescribe a low dose AI.

Funny you should ask bc I worked with several doctors who had no clue what they were doing and would prescribe men 75mgs of test every 3 weeks and 1mg of Arimidex per day along side that and maybe 5000iu of HCG 2x per week LOL.

One of the most mind blowing failures I saw was a Yale endo I worked with told me he refused to dose his patients with HCG bc he had no clue how to dose it LMAO.
Meanwhile various pubmed studies show that 900iu per week total was sufficient in a large population study.

It blows me away how uneducated and ignorant some of these so called "doctors" are. It's embarrassing.

Dr. Thomas O'Connor aka the metabolic doctor is one of the better Docs I worked with and he has a youtube channel if you search him out.


My current TRT protocol and does not include HCG and I've really been looking into it with what seems like 50/50 fort it or against it.
 
My current TRT protocol and does not include HCG and I've really been looking into it with what seems like 50/50 fort it or against it.

For HRT purposes I will say this, all the experts, like the real deal sports management endos, are all for it.

But whatever works for you sir. Always appreciate conversating with you :)
 
Thank you for the replies Wes! I’m going to pick some up and give it a shot on blast and off. My doc will prescribe it but like you said in another post the pharmacies want stupid money for it. I get .5mg of adex twice a week so I have that if i need it. I’m on the border with needing an AI but I never turn down the script cause who doesn’t want pharma AI for pennies?

Regarding the clomid and HCG, I’ve followed a few cases where the patients felt like it lost effectiveness after a certain period of time. I’m not sure if this was back by bloods or not. Just thought it was interesting.
 
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For HRT purposes I will say this, all the experts, like the real deal sports management endos, are all for it.

But whatever works for you sir. Always appreciate conversating with you :)

Thanks for the feedback, it's quite obvious I need a new physician as my current one is not as knowledgeable as half the gentlemen on this forum and not open to my suggestions.
 
Hi all; I’m looking for some advice. I’m 28 and grossly overweight at 21 stone. I’ve had a set of symptoms for approximately the last ten year, including; weight gain, fatigue, mental cloudiness, aches, low mood, low libido, etc etc. This was before the excess weight too. I’ve tested my testosterone levels privately and they came back as free test - 01.08nmol /l, total test - 4.4 nmol / L and SHBG - 17.6nmol/ L. My gp won’t treat and has just advised buying viagra otc. I’m looking at treating the low levels myself with test Cypionante, but looking for further advice. Thinking about 75mg 1 x per week and then retesting after six weeks to see where the levels are. Can anyone advise whether anything else needs to be taken? In fact any advise is massively appreciated.

Many thanks,
Jake

Jake,

Barring a physical accident that affected your endocrine system, from 18 to 28 years old, you should not be having testosterone issues. It sounds like your diet has been horrible and your activity level, non existent.

In short, your testosterone should still be at mega levels at 28. So, let's get down to what causes low T in someone your age. Be honest here.

Are you now or in the past, been on prescription narcotics, or another pain killer for a number of years? Any other legal or illegal substances? Tell me about your diet, activity, etc.

I don't need your medical history, just wanting to discern what brought you to this point. Throwing Test on top of an already stressed system is not the best Idea. If you can answer the above questions, then we can get to where you need to be.
 
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