• 👋Hello, please SIGN-UP FOR A FREE account and become a member of our community!
    You will then be able to start threads, post comments and send messages to other members. Thanks!
  • 💪IronMag Labs® 30% Off Easter Sale👉www.ironmaglabs.com Coupon code: EASTER30🐰

Failure training

I do. I’m doing the DC 2 way split right now. The other style of training I’ll usually go back to is Blood and Guts style. I’m 36.
whats wrong with failure?
 
After I stopped going to failure I stopped getting injured and experiencing CNS burnout. My joints wouldn't be able to take it now, especially my knees. I was able to still go to failure when I was 36, but there's no way I could now.

I do. I’m doing the DC 2 way split right now. The other style of training I’ll usually go back to is Blood and Guts style. I’m 36.
whats wrong with failure?
 
I only go to failure on my heavy set. Like for squats right now I’d do:

135x10
225x10
315x10
405xfailure

I stop at 10 so I can kill my 405 set. And I dont stop on that set, but I only get around 6-8 reps depending how I’m feeling that day.

Failure on lighter sets kill my joints, too many reps. If I can get 15 reps its too light.

Edit:

Did not realize this was in the 40+ section, sorry guys, I’m only 30. But those are my 2 cents

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
On my good days I absolutely try to go to failure. Also I haven’t had a good workout partner in years.

It would be fucking awesome to go to failure every set every day…..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I do a ton of volume and max 1 body part a month..
It's about staying injury free while still growing..
At my age injuries are just 1 wrong rep away..And nobody wants that..
So..failure from high volume,Not heavy wieght..
 
Absolutely. Was doing 20+ reps on everything. But two weeks ago i switched to Doug Brignole training and i still go balls to the wall but im fuller and less sore
 
I still go to failure or close to but with lighter weight and more reps to help prevent injuries or aggravate preexisting injuries.
 
I still go to failure or close to but with lighter weight and more reps to help prevent injuries or aggravate preexisting injuries.
This. Guys have a misconception that failure training low reps go hand and hand. Dante has a dc protocol for older guys.
 
I don't recommend any of my older guys to go to failure on straight sets anymore usually.

There's just too much risk, especially when you've got a lot of wear on the tread.

I DO have them go to failure on certain exercises at certain points in the workout with different set types though. Cluster sets, musclesl rounds ect. This is usually after a "heavy" set or two that's taken a bit short of failure.

On that note though, not many people REALLY train to failure anyways. If you finished the rep JUST BARELY, that's still not failure.
 
IML Gear Cream!
I don't recommend any of my older guys to go to failure on straight sets anymore usually.

There's just too much risk, especially when you've got a lot of wear on the tread.

I DO have them go to failure on certain exercises at certain points in the workout with different set types though. Cluster sets, musclesl rounds ect. This is usually after a "heavy" set or two that's taken a bit short of failure.

On that note though, not many people REALLY train to failure anyways. If you finished the rep JUST BARELY, that's still not failure.

Great point! Failure is failure, not barely getting the rep.

I’m 52 and go to “just barely” my last set on each exercise, and sometimes more. I work one muscle per day 6 days a week. 60-70 minutes in the gym.

My problem is I want to go heavy all the time. I love it, addicted to it.. I can’t bring myself to do volume. I’m killing my joints/tendons and I know it but still blast away. I’ve now got a mean golfers elbow and jacked shoulder. I’m just stupid. Anyone else have this issue?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Great point! Failure is failure, not barely getting the rep.

I’m 52 and go to “just barely” my last set on each exercise, and sometimes more. I work one muscle per day 6 days a week. 60-70 minutes in the gym.

My problem is I want to go heavy all the time. I love it, addicted to it.. I can’t bring myself to do volume. I’m killing my joints/tendons and I know it but still blast away. I’ve now got a mean golfers elbow and jacked shoulder. I’m just stupid. Anyone else have this issue?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
you can keep the same effort and lower volume approach, just do higher reps. Heavy is relative. Switch to 15-20 or even 30 reps. You’ll still build the same amount of tissue and probably improve conditioning with it.
My top set is 20reps and my widow maker set is a brutal 40+
 
Here's Dante's post from Intense Muscle:

"For every bodybuilder post 34 years of age
I have been meaning to write this for awhile and I guess Ill just write a shortened version of what I was going to write. There just comes a time in a bodybuilders life that I (personally) feel he has to make provisions for safety and longevity concerning bodybuilding. You really dont see tears and ruptures pre 28-30 years of age in advanced bodybuilders (unless dealt a bad hand of luck).....but you do see a plethora of tears in advanced bodybuilders in their mid to late 30's and 40's and onward.
There really comes a time where you have to start getting cautious about these things and I believe that time should come (moreso depending on when you started lifting) roughly about 34 years of age.
Alot of my ideas that are out there publically are built around trying to get beginning and intermediate bodybuilders up to advanced size as quickly as possible and most of those guys are 18-30 but I do know I have alot of post 30 years of age bbers following the gameplan also.
The worst thing I could think of a 40 year old bodybuilder doing is trying to beat weights he used when he was 28 in a low rep range. I really feel it is not a matter of IF you tear a bicep or a pec or tricep but WHEN. Want a one way ticket to a torn bicep? Be 44 years old trying to curl 225 for 4 reps. Torn tricep? Be 42 years old trying to do 225 for 6 heavy reps in the lying tricep extension.
I guess what Im trying to relay is I would like to see anyone who is post 34 years of age (doing my methods) to move rep ranges northward. At 40 years of age the very very very lowest first part of the rest pause rep range should probably be 10 reps and that again is the very lowest .......so I would probably be looking for something along the lines of a 15-30 rest pause for people post 34 years old. In a heavy barbell curl that could be 10+3+2 hypothetically. In a lying tricep extension that could be 12+6+4=22rp.
In fact (quickly thinking here) the only exercise I could feasibly see you doing anything under 10 reps with (either straight or at the first rest pause mark) as an older bodybuilder would probably be overgrip deadlift variations where you could probably get away with anything above 6 reps still.......maybe first set 9-10 and second set 6-7 could be a gameplan.
You can look at the rash of tears in the pro bodybuilding ranks with the older 35 and above bodybuilders and see that some kind of precautionary measures have to be taken here......it was very sad to see Chris Cormier this year with a torn tricep as "in my eyes" he has had the prototypical perfect blend of size and shape in the pro ranks for many years and now.......thats pretty much done with that scarlet letter of a tricep.
There is no downside to tweaking your training this way, its not a "throwing in the towel" kind of syndrome.....its just a realization of aging and the caution that must go with it. If your doing an incline press for 11+5+2 with shitheavy weight and dont think you will be gaining muscle mass.....then your misinformed. Its about not taking chances whereas you could get away with those same chances when you were in your 20's with a heavy set of 5 reps.
 
Here's Dante's post from Intense Muscle:

"For every bodybuilder post 34 years of age
I have been meaning to write this for awhile and I guess Ill just write a shortened version of what I was going to write. There just comes a time in a bodybuilders life that I (personally) feel he has to make provisions for safety and longevity concerning bodybuilding. You really dont see tears and ruptures pre 28-30 years of age in advanced bodybuilders (unless dealt a bad hand of luck).....but you do see a plethora of tears in advanced bodybuilders in their mid to late 30's and 40's and onward.
There really comes a time where you have to start getting cautious about these things and I believe that time should come (moreso depending on when you started lifting) roughly about 34 years of age.
Alot of my ideas that are out there publically are built around trying to get beginning and intermediate bodybuilders up to advanced size as quickly as possible and most of those guys are 18-30 but I do know I have alot of post 30 years of age bbers following the gameplan also.
The worst thing I could think of a 40 year old bodybuilder doing is trying to beat weights he used when he was 28 in a low rep range. I really feel it is not a matter of IF you tear a bicep or a pec or tricep but WHEN. Want a one way ticket to a torn bicep? Be 44 years old trying to curl 225 for 4 reps. Torn tricep? Be 42 years old trying to do 225 for 6 heavy reps in the lying tricep extension.
I guess what Im trying to relay is I would like to see anyone who is post 34 years of age (doing my methods) to move rep ranges northward. At 40 years of age the very very very lowest first part of the rest pause rep range should probably be 10 reps and that again is the very lowest .......so I would probably be looking for something along the lines of a 15-30 rest pause for people post 34 years old. In a heavy barbell curl that could be 10+3+2 hypothetically. In a lying tricep extension that could be 12+6+4=22rp.
In fact (quickly thinking here) the only exercise I could feasibly see you doing anything under 10 reps with (either straight or at the first rest pause mark) as an older bodybuilder would probably be overgrip deadlift variations where you could probably get away with anything above 6 reps still.......maybe first set 9-10 and second set 6-7 could be a gameplan.
You can look at the rash of tears in the pro bodybuilding ranks with the older 35 and above bodybuilders and see that some kind of precautionary measures have to be taken here......it was very sad to see Chris Cormier this year with a torn tricep as "in my eyes" he has had the prototypical perfect blend of size and shape in the pro ranks for many years and now.......thats pretty much done with that scarlet letter of a tricep.
There is no downside to tweaking your training this way, its not a "throwing in the towel" kind of syndrome.....its just a realization of aging and the caution that must go with it. If your doing an incline press for 11+5+2 with shitheavy weight and dont think you will be gaining muscle mass.....then your misinformed. Its about not taking chances whereas you could get away with those same chances when you were in your 20's with a heavy set of 5 reps.
Rest pause sets of 15+ reps are not equal to straight sets of 15+ Reps.

I would completely disagree that sets of 20-30 reps, if done in "normal" fashion promote growth in the same way that sets done in the 6-12 rep range do.

If you mean rest pause sets or cluster sets, yeah. But, even those sets aren't really high rep. They're simply low rep sets with short test periods.

Legs can be an exception.
 
Last edited:
Until i just switched up training to something new everything was minimum 20 reps if not more to goddamn near failure. You're still going to grow either way. No sense being in constant pain. I still bench heavy cause i enjoy it when i feel like it. If you're not competing in Powerlifting or whatever who cares about heavy heavy.
Whoever said golfers elbow... that's an easy fix btw.
 
Rest pause sets of 15+ reps are not equal to straight sets of 15+ Reps.

I would completely disagree that sets of 20-30 reps, if done in "normal" fashion promote growth in the same way that sets done in the 6-12 rep range do.

If you mean rest pause sets or cluster sets, yeah. But, even those sets aren't really high rep. They're simply low rep sets with short test periods.

Legs can be an exception.
Ive never seen any evidence that higher rep ranges produce less growth. There’s plenty of studies that show up until 30 reps you can get the same hypertrophic adaptation if the effort is there.
 
Brad Schoenfeld has a lot of research out there that supports the 6-12 rep range is superior for growing tissue but, there are caviats such as volume, load, rest periods, nutrition, set types, metabolic stress and so on which would apply to either approach.

The best evidence though is the tens of thousands of bodybuilders who have grown tissue this way.

Can't say the same for higher rep sets. Legs excluded.
 
Until i just switched up training to something new everything was minimum 20 reps if not more to goddamn near failure. You're still going to grow either way. No sense being in constant pain. I still bench heavy cause i enjoy it when i feel like it. If you're not competing in Powerlifting or whatever who cares about heavy heavy.
Whoever said golfers elbow... that's an easy fix btw.

Ah.... what’s the fix for golfers elbow?! I’ve tried so many things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Brad Schoenfeld has a lot of research out there that supports the 6-12 rep range is superior for growing tissue but, there are caviats such as volume, load, rest periods, nutrition, set types, metabolic stress and so on which would apply to either approach.

The best evidence though is the tens of thousands of bodybuilders who have grown tissue this way.

Can't say the same for higher rep sets. Legs excluded.
What rep ranges do you recommend older guys use? Is it 10-12 for upper body?
 
Brad Schoenfeld has a lot of research out there that supports the 6-12 rep range is superior for growing tissue but, there are caviats such as volume, load, rest periods, nutrition, set types, metabolic stress and so on which would apply to either approach.

The best evidence though is the tens of thousands of bodybuilders who have grown tissue this way.

Can't say the same for higher rep sets. Legs excluded.
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/hypertrophy-range-fact-fiction/

Just read this it’s good read. Not saying you’re wrong, but I think 15 reps is a pretty safe area.
 
Get Shredded!
What rep ranges do you recommend older guys use? Is it 10-12 for upper body?

If you're on gear and train intense and eat enough then any rep range will work.
 
Ah.... what’s the fix for golfers elbow?! I’ve tried so many things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shoot me a pm bro. I'll explain. Its a fix for golfers elbow, tennis elbow, rear elbow tri tendon issues, bicep tendon, brachioradialis ect
 
If you're on gear and train intense and eat enough then any rep range will work.
I don’t think gear really changes it that much. Recovery wise yes, but it doesn’t make any rep range more effective.if you train with enough effort progressively and eat enough that the rep range doesn’t matter all that much. If a guy goes from benching 135 to 400 then he will be bigger regardless of rep range. Now I’d argue the guy who could squat 400 for 15-20 will have bigger legs than if he was only able to do it for 6-10. The same goes for any movement
I agree with you I just don’t think it matters if you’re on gear on not
 
Last edited:
I don’t think gear really changes it that much. Recovery wise yes, but it doesn’t make any rep range more effective.if you train with enough effort progressively and eat enough that the rep range doesn’t matter all that much. If a guy goes from benching 135 to 400 then he will be bigger regardless of rep range. Now I’d argue the guy who could squat 400 for 15-20 will have bigger legs than if he was only able to do it for 6-10. The same goes for any movement
I agree with you I just don’t think it matters if you’re on gear on not

What i mean is more like, the natty kid in the gym doing 20, 30, 50 reps on various things versus.... the geared guy is just doing aerobics after a point.
I used to do crazy high sets for legs, 50, 100 reps ect on the sled. There was a young kid always up my ass about it and i told him don't do what i do it won't work the same for you. He did it anyways... of course... hit me a month later and told me his legs weren't growing and looked like they had gotten slightly smaller.
Just meaning with lots of things geared guys can get away with more things natty guys can't.
 
What rep ranges do you recommend older guys use? Is it 10-12 for upper body?
It varies and covers multiple rep ranges.

Pigeon holing yourself into a certain mindset, especially when it comes to bodybuilding, isn't very productive.

I do have most every guy perform the Majority of their work in the 8-12 range with cluster, back off sets, muscle rounds and pump sets added in depending on the goal for that session.

All rep ranges can be beneficial, IF, they're used at the correct points
 
It varies and covers multiple rep ranges.

Pigeon holing yourself into a certain mindset, especially when it comes to bodybuilding, isn't very productive.

I do have most every guy perform the Majority of their work in the 8-12 range with cluster, back off sets, muscle rounds and pump sets added in depending on the goal for that session.

All rep ranges can be beneficial, IF, they're used at the correct points
I appreciate the answer and letting me pick your brain. If I remember correctly you’re a lower volume guy right?
 
I don’t think gear really changes it that much. Recovery wise yes, but it doesn’t make any rep range more effective.if you train with enough effort progressively and eat enough that the rep range doesn’t matter all that much. If a guy goes from benching 135 to 400 then he will be bigger regardless of rep range. Now I’d argue the guy who could squat 400 for 15-20 will have bigger legs than if he was only able to do it for 6-10. The same goes for any movement
I agree with you I just don’t think it matters if you’re on gear on not

I don't know if I quite agree with that, because personally once I work up to a certain weight (on compound lifts or even some isos) for 6-8 reps, I don't really see any additional growth by getting the reps any higher to say 10-12. If anything I almost feel like I lose size with higher reps just burning up glycogen and fluid. I suppose it depends on your fiber type, as myself have shitty endurance in nearly everything I do and have never responded well to higher reps, drop sets or extended sets, etc.
 
Last edited:
I don't know if I quite agree with that, because personally once I work up to a certain weight (on compound lifts or even some isos) for 6-8 reps, I don't really see any additional growth by getting the reps any higher to say 10-12. If anything I almost feel like I lose size with higher reps just burning up glycogen and fluid. I suppose it depends on your fiber type, as myself have shitty endurance in nearly everything I do and have never responded well to higher reps, drop sets or extended sets, etc.

so you don’t think a guy who can bench say 300 for 20 reps would have a bigger chest than a guy who could only do it for 6-10?
 
On heavy compound movements I'm very prone to preexisting injuries on the last few reps where I struggle. Squats and leg press I have to leave 3-5 reps in the tank but with something like leg extensions I can go to failure no problem. Same thing with any overhead pressing, have to leave some reps on the table but with lateral raises can go to failure. I have degenerative arthritis and collapsed disks in my neck and low back with nerve impingement. Also have a pec that is tearing off my sternum on one side similar to Scott Steiner. Have other issues too. Really had to back off my training and PED use in the last couple years.
 
Back
Top