Sex assault charge dropped against actor Kevin Spacey

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemalt View Post
    His career came to a grinding halt.

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000228/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

    He beat this case but there were many other accusers. I dunno if it justifies ruining the guy but he sounds dangerous to the pretty young boys on the set.
    Sure makes sense, but now that its over he will be fine, he is one of the best actors in Hollywood.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold View Post
    Sure makes sense, but now that its over he will be fine, he is one of the best actors in Hollywood.
    I hope yer right.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemalt View Post
    Are we talking about the hotel room incident w/ the two chick comediennes? Where he announced what he was going to do (jack off), removed his clothing (slowly... the dude is not young, athletic, nor even remotely fit) and proceeded to follow through, at no time coercing, threatening, or imprisoning the two women who nonetheless sat on his bed holding each other and screaming?

    That's the sort of fainting-couch "feminism" that embarrasses most women I know, and hurts the cause of gender equality.

    We might think he's a creepy kink but then we're just kink shaming at this point. I've known many women with crazy kinks including an appetite for group sex, and we know from studies that the majority (60%+) of women have rape fantasies (tho many never tell their partners), so this isn't a productive path to go down unless we're trying to put EVERYONE back in some 50's puritanical cage.

    If you're talking about another incident, then I dunno. I only read about that one event.

    Look you're just strawmanning me about kink shaming him. He didnt go hire a prostitute, some dating website, pick up a chick at the club/bar, ect. He asked people that were not his equals and that was for a reason.

    It has nothing to do with feminism, and more to do with the fact with his status and power in context. Again, I'm not saying he should be lumped in with rapists but to put woman in that position is just down right wrong. I would feel the same way if a woman was taking advantage of her status in this way as well. This is basic power dynamics 101. Especially when it's such a cut throat industry.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staynattybruh View Post
    Look you're just strawmanning me about kink shaming him. He didnt go hire a prostitute, some dating website, pick up a chick at the club/bar, ect. He asked people that were not his equals and that was for a reason.

    It has nothing to do with feminism, and more to do with the fact with his status and power in context. Again, I'm not saying he should be lumped in with rapists but to put woman in that position is just down right wrong. I would feel the same way if a woman was taking advantage of her status in this way as well. This is basic power dynamics 101. Especially when it's such a cut throat industry.

    The problem I have with the "power dynamics" angle is that he had no real power over the women beyond his fame. Where do you draw the lines? If fame by itself is power, does that make any sexual advance by any rock star or movie star on a non-star a crime? It's an absurdly slippery slope imo.

    I read the whole account of Louis CK's "crime" and just got disgusted with the women. And I've never seen Louis CK in anything so I previously didn't give a shit. But... those women could've said "no" right when he said OUT LOUD that he was going to undress and jack off in front of them, or simply LEFT THE ROOM, or done those things at any point in the next 5-10 minutes. And didn't. Because they were cowed by his power? His potential to give them jobs? His liking them or not? Or because they were hyper-fragile infantile females unable to make their own choices? Blah. We'll need an ocean of morality police clogging up all the bars and clubs and maybe even hotel rooms in this country to prevent "power-imbalanced" flirting if we keep going this route.

    You say it's nothing to do with feminism and would equally apply if a woman did the same. So, imagine the whole scene with genders reversed. It's a famous comedienne doing a get-naked-and-masturbate act, unexpected but pre-announced, in front of two young male starlets on the bed, and the males start screaming and hugging each other in "terror". But they never stay, "No, stop, you atrocious woman you!" nor leave until a long while later. You'd advocate that the comedienne be outcast from the industry as Louis CK was? Hm.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemalt View Post
    The problem I have with the "power dynamics" angle is that he had no real power over the women beyond his fame. Where do you draw the lines? If fame by itself is power, does that make any sexual advance by any rock star or movie star on a non-star a crime? It's an absurdly slippery slope imo.

    I read the whole account of Louis CK's "crime" and just got disgusted with the women. And I've never seen Louis CK in anything so I previously didn't give a shit. But... those women could've said "no" right when he said OUT LOUD that he was going to undress and jack off in front of them, or simply LEFT THE ROOM, or done those things at any point in the next 5-10 minutes. And didn't. Because they were cowed by his power? His potential to give them jobs? His liking them or not? Or because they were hyper-fragile infantile females unable to make their own choices? Blah. We'll need an ocean of morality police clogging up all the bars and clubs and maybe even hotel rooms in this country to prevent "power-imbalanced" flirting if we keep going this route.

    You say it's nothing to do with feminism and would equally apply if a woman did the same. So, imagine the whole scene with genders reversed. It's a famous comedienne doing a get-naked-and-masturbate act, unexpected but pre-announced, in front of two young male starlets on the bed, and the males start screaming and hugging each other in "terror". But they never stay, "No, stop, you atrocious woman you!" nor leave until a long while later. You'd advocate that the comedienne be outcast from the industry as Louis CK was? Hm.
    Huh? You realize these woman worked in the same business as him right? So it's not just about "fame". His "sexual advance", in a hotel room, to his inferiors, and in person, all this was obviously done in this way for a inclination to put pressure on the people involved.

    To address your second paragraph you should read into sexual assault victim physcology cases because YOU may THINK you can make the clear decision of what you want but the mind doesnt always work that way. Flight or fight. I'm not trying to insult you but it's just so clear to me that you are taking some ideological stance because of the over reaction of the metoo movement and a few cases where woman are playing victim when they're not.

    Third paragraph, again your totally strawmaning me. The woman did not act like the men in your terrible analogy of a situation. Plus, man do have an advantage in this situation by being stronger and bigger, so their response will be easier to formulate in the right direction. And let's say this did happen.. FUCK YES that woman should have repercussions in that situation.

    Seriously just imagine being a 5ft female 120lbs, while a 6 foot 200lbs grown man starts doing this. How the hell docthey know what would happen if they said no? You're apparently so trusting of the guy in this situation when, who is the gender to most likely get raped here? Yeah.

    And if you put words in my mouth one more damn time, I'm not going to continue this conversations because you dont care about what's right you care about arguing against political agendas. I never said louis should not ever perform again ect. He did what I think was perfectly right for him to do and I'm in the side that at some point there needs to be forgiveness especially considering his remorse and sincere apology. Not to mention he stopped doing his career for while for it too.

    So if we continue this conversation please talk to me like I'm a critical and intelligent person, sure with biases like everyone, but trys to recognize that like everyone should, to make the right decisions.

  6. #21
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    I think you're over-reacting, but hey maybe I'm missing something. Still listening. What you're calling "strawmanning" is a legit concern, but look at my quote two posts ago:

    "We might think he's a creepy kink but then we're just kink shaming at this point."

    Then you took that as a personal strawman attack, as if I'd said "You might think... then you're just..." But I didn't say that. I'm talking about all of us. Be careful about taking everything personally.

    A HUGE part of the condemnation of Louis was his kink -- masturbating in front of chicks. Just look at the media stories. Take out the kink and the story disappears. What if he'd said, instead, "Hey girls let's get naked and have sex!" and then began taking off his clothes? Still a story? Would those delicate women still say nothing and just hug each other screaming? Or more reasonably say "Fuck off!" and just leave the hotel room, like normal people? It's a hypothetical sure but an important one. And no I'm not strawmanning anyone, it's a legit question. If the kink is irrelevant to you then this hypothetical situation should have you equally incensed at Louis, no? ANY sort of sexual come-on is an offense... simply because they're "inferiors" in the comedy business?

    I think that's radically over-protective. And that could be the core of our disagreement.

    Funny thing is, I spent most of my life being one of those uber-woke hyper-feminist dudes (not that that's you) who agreed with everything you've written here in this thread. It's a belief system that leads to: "We have to see women in a victim role always, and men are always at fault." I was raised that way and it kinda fucked me up. I still believe gender equality is absolutely the answer but about ten years ago I woke up out of that "woke" delusion and see now that women need to step up to the same responsibilities as men. Period. Otherwise they'll never have equality. You can't always be a victim and also be equal. And many women really work that victim angle for manipulative purposes (just ask em, they'll often fess up about it). Real victimization exists, sure, and needs to be stamped out, but every situation has to be evaluated on its merits.


    I'd be interested in your opinion of the Aziz Ansari scandal as well. Is it basically the same? Or if not, why?

    https://quillette.com/2019/02/28/the...nsari-paradox/

  7. #22
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    True story ...

    i was accused of rape after having consensual sober sex with an adult woman after her boyfriend found out she was a cheater and I wouldn’t date her..

    luckily I saved emails.

    a lot of women are insecure enough to believe they have no ‘power’. It’s bullshit. CK Louis is a weirdo for sure but those bitches weren’t tied up... ya got feet, use them.

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