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Suffering Is Not A Justification (M Knowles explains how suicide is not justifiable)

Vision

Vision

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Michael Knowles explains how suicide is not justifiable, even in the highest form of suffering.

What's your take on this topic? Your thoughts...........:hmm:
(Lets leave out terminally ill and keep this narrow with just mental health)

 
As a therapist once told me... suicide is irrational thought.

And you have to consider the person thinking this kind of stuff as "temporarily insane."

Made sense to me then and now.
 
Augustine5I said:
As a therapist once told me... suicide is irrational thought.

And you have to consider the person thinking this kind of stuff as "temporarily insane."

Made sense to me then and now.
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exactly.. it goes against our moral compass, thus the reason people try to stop others, and why we try to save lives, in fact willing to die for others just so they can live.. Its something that is programmed in our minds since the very beginning of time..
Most people that have survived after an attempt always say they regretted it instantaneously, thats because it goes against are mental programming to survive..
 
Vision said:
exactly.. it goes against our moral compass, thus the reason people try to stop others, and why we try to save lives, in fact willing to die for others just so they can live.. Its something that is programmed in our minds since the very beginning of time..
Most people that have survived after an attempt always say they regretted it instantaneously, thats because it goes against are mental programming to survive..
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Always thought, the moment someone steps off that chair to hang themselves, what goes thru their mind? Are they like, wtf did I just do or what?

Suppose thats why you step off or push the chair away so that you can't save yourself.
 
Augustine5I said:
Always thought, the moment someone steps off that chair to hang themselves, what goes thru their mind? Are they like, wtf did I just do or what?

Suppose thats why you step off or push the chair away so that you can't save yourself.
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yup.. and thats why some people lay into a rope rather than hung, so they can lift off if they back out at the last moment
 
Vision said:
yup.. and thats why some people lay into a rope rather than hung, so they can lift off if they back out at the last moment
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Yea like Robin Williams did he hung himself from a door knob by simply sitting down. If he had changed his mind he could have simply gotten up to his knees and saved himself, but he must have really wanted out. Suicide is just fucked up to me anyways it goes against the basic desire to live that's why I feel like it's gotta be this serious mental fucking state one reaches where suicide actually makes rationale sense to them. They cant see any other solution to the problem, or the pain, and death is the only way there are no other choices. I don't know I've had some dark moments before where the world was pretty black but that option was never on the table. I did however once tell a cop that had stopped me that he wasn't arresting me. I was getting out of the car and I was gonna run in the other direction and if he wanted to stop me he'd have to shoot me in the back. Fucking worked because he freaked out and said whoa whoa nobody's shooting anyone how about u just step outta the car but you're not under arrest..that's as close as I've come to suicide and it's a good thing he wasn't a young cowboy cuz I know I was serious that day life sucked at that particular moment in time
 
Abombs said:
Yea like Robin Williams did he hung himself from a door knob by simply sitting down. If he had changed his mind he could have simply gotten up to his knees and saved himself, but he must have really wanted out. Suicide is just fucked up to me anyways it goes against the basic desire to live that's why I feel like it's gotta be this serious mental fucking state one reaches where suicide actually makes rationale sense to them. They cant see any other solution to the problem, or the pain, and death is the only way there are no other choices. I don't know I've had some dark moments before where the world was pretty black but that option was never on the table. I did however once tell a cop that had stopped me that he wasn't arresting me. I was getting out of the car and I was gonna run in the other direction and if he wanted to stop me he'd have to shoot me in the back. Fucking worked because he freaked out and said whoa whoa nobody's shooting anyone how about u just step outta the car but you're not under arrest..that's as close as I've come to suicide and it's a good thing he wasn't a young cowboy cuz I know I was serious that day life sucked at that particular moment in time
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I was devistated by that... I was rocked.. of all people.. I recall sitting on my coffee table watching TV in tears, I was a huge fan of him, he reminded my of my father.. it was awful..

BTW. I got your message, I'll reply to it seen as I get settled in my brutha!!!!!!!!
 
Vision said:
I was devistated by that... I was rocked.. of all people.. I recall sitting on my coffee table watching TV in tears, I was a huge fan of him, he reminded my of my father.. it was awful..

BTW. I got your message, I'll reply to it seen as I get settled in my brutha!!!!!!!!
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Thanks bro....Yea he was so talented and funny but I've read all about his troubles and his tormented mind and drug use just a sad ending. People who commit suicide don't realize the pain they leave behind they really don't. The ones that cared about them are always left asking questions they are never going to get answered...sucks
 
Abombs said:
Thanks bro....Yea he was so talented and funny but I've read all about his troubles and his tormented mind and drug use just a sad ending. People who commit suicide don't realize the pain they leave behind they really don't. The ones that cared about them are always left asking questions they are never going to get answered...sucks
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Bro I'm man enough to admit it that I was crying and I was very upset for a couple days.. I absolutely loved his work.. even as an adult I loved him in the movie Hook.. he just played every role so well and he had a way to captivate the audience.. he literally reminded me of my father the way he moved the way his body was built and the way he walked and talked. But my father was not funny like him haha.
 
IML Gear Cream!
You have to realize, a lot of people are mentally ill, just like a lot of people are physically ill. Sometimes it's through their own fault, others times it's not. Either way, their "brain is sick" just like if someone was physically sick. I'm just saying there is no easy answer.
 
Should have just called this the "Holier-than-thou" thread since its a place for you all the decide who is moral and who isn't and who is sick and who isnt just because someone came up with those guidelines you all think those are the standards by which all must live by. Peoples' actions that have no direct impact on you shouldn't be judged by you. I can say you are sick and immoral and insane for driving 60 mph in a 55 zone since its obvious that limit was set for the good of society yet your sickness and broken moral compass is directly putting others people lives at risk also speeding leads to more accidents causing industry-wide insurance rates to rise even for those that have never had accidents or moving violations. Now your sickness and lack of morals has a direct impact on me. Yet when others choose to end their own life for whatever reason you are going to sit there and preach your gibberish.
 
dale said:
Should have just called this the "Holier-than-thou" thread since its a place for you all the decide who is moral and who isn't and who is sick and who isnt just because someone came up with those guidelines you all think those are the standards by which all must live by. Peoples' actions that have no direct impact on you shouldn't be judged by you. I can say you are sick and immoral and insane for driving 60 mph in a 55 zone since its obvious that limit was set for the good of society yet your sickness and broken moral compass is directly putting others people lives at risk also speeding leads to more accidents causing industry-wide insurance rates to rise even for those that have never had accidents or moving violations. Now your sickness and lack of morals has a direct impact on me. Yet when others choose to end their own life for whatever reason you are going to sit there and preach your gibberish.
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You're entitled to your own opinion, but your actually the one passing judgement claiming that any of us consider ourselves hollier than thou.. You really seem to have a good assessment of people's characters based on just a simple topic.. but, you're entitled to think and feel the way you wish!
 
Until we walk a mile in their shoes.
 
Some of the greatest battles are being fought in the minds of men....I remember I was at that point some years ago and didn't know why, all my life storms, frustration and aggression until I started Trt and then it all went away and I have many friends who were the same. That's why I think mental illness is over blown and hormones for many people are the problem, but i guess there is more money to be made through pills than by actually fixing the problem. I honestly feel that if I had figured this out earlier I would have saved my marriage
 
dale said:
Should have just called this the "Holier-than-thou" thread since its a place for you all the decide who is moral and who isn't and who is sick and who isnt just because someone came up with those guidelines you all think those are the standards by which all must live by. Peoples' actions that have no direct impact on you shouldn't be judged by you. I can say you are sick and immoral and insane for driving 60 mph in a 55 zone since its obvious that limit was set for the good of society yet your sickness and broken moral compass is directly putting others people lives at risk also speeding leads to more accidents causing industry-wide insurance rates to rise even for those that have never had accidents or moving violations. Now your sickness and lack of morals has a direct impact on me. Yet when others choose to end their own life for whatever reason you are going to sit there and preach your gibberish.
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Speaking of gibberish
 
The way I see it...


aint much sense in dying. The name of the game is surviving!

Ya gotta have the perseverance to get through the shit. That’s what it means to be human. Ya gotta find meaning and you gotta at least try to make tomorrow something better than today.

suicide does go against the grain, I’ve never heard someone say “man, my life is complete now might as well blow my brains out”!

With that being said, life can be cruel and unfair. I know if I lost my world, I’d be struggling to push forward. Wouldn’t care too much about seeing the sunrise.

But as far as physician assisted suicide, with as much as the free world let’s happen, we’d be hypocrites to deny anybody that ‘right’.
 
I understand whay people take their own life, you have to very strong mentally, NOT to when your that low and cant see another way. Thats something many dont realise, those who want to take their own life, but actually dont how strong you have to be. A couple of years ago before my twins were born, I wanted to, wrote a letter at 1am sleeping next to my pregnant wife, saying good bye to her and the girls yet to be born. Decided I would end it on my bike, and while I never did I lived very free for a few days not caring how fast I was going or if I was going to crash. I finalyl went to see a psychatrist, and he didnt judge me and gave me some great useful techniques to deal with high stress situations when you cant see any light. To this day my wife and girls dont know how close I came. I udnerstand why you would, if you dont you are stronger than you think.
 
Stress is a mother fucker. It’ll kill you just as much as the next thing.


Learn to enjoy being alive , there is stuff you can do as a human being that makes
it so
 
butchsandance77 said:
I understand whay people take their own life, you have to very strong mentally, NOT to when your that low and cant see another way. Thats something many dont realise, those who want to take their own life, but actually dont how strong you have to be. A couple of years ago before my twins were born, I wanted to, wrote a letter at 1am sleeping next to my pregnant wife, saying good bye to her and the girls yet to be born. Decided I would end it on my bike, and while I never did I lived very free for a few days not caring how fast I was going or if I was going to crash. I finalyl went to see a psychatrist, and he didnt judge me and gave me some great useful techniques to deal with high stress situations when you cant see any light. To this day my wife and girls dont know how close I came. I udnerstand why you would, if you dont you are stronger than you think.
Click to expand...

What are the techniques?


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Augustine5I said:
What are the techniques?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

One of them was to imagine Im in a massive warehouse, just me, nothing else in it, now how small I am in this warehouse, all the warehouse around me, what this does, and it can take some practice but works for me, is ground me in the here and now, and gives me some clarity to think straight and level.

Another, sit on a chair, hands on your knees, eyes closed, and think about pushing your heels into the floor, concentrate on your heels into the floor, again this grounds you.

Both work for me, if either can help to give you a moment to think clearly and make a good decision it works.

I saw a sports psychiatrist for awhile, not for sport but for the issues raised, it just helped he understand my mentality of being an thlete.
 
butchsandance77 said:
One of them was to imagine Im in a massive warehouse, just me, nothing else in it, now how small I am in this warehouse, all the warehouse around me, what this does, and it can take some practice but works for me, is ground me in the here and now, and gives me some clarity to think straight and level.

Another, sit on a chair, hands on your knees, eyes closed, and think about pushing your heels into the floor, concentrate on your heels into the floor, again this grounds you.

Both work for me, if either can help to give you a moment to think clearly and make a good decision it works.

I saw a sports psychiatrist for awhile, not for sport but for the issues raised, it just helped he understand my mentality of being an thlete.
Click to expand...

These are actually great techniques and I was also personally instructed to do the warehouse perspective, during my therapeutic treatment they actually offered scented oils.. they suggested that I used orange.. I would be lying if I told you why but I think I remember them saying that the citrus smell because something with neuro activity while attempting to meditate..

The seated chair method sounds pretty interesting.. I'm going to try that one..
Do you keep your posture straight and look forward? All the while pressing your heels to the floor? Do you press and hold and release, or do you keep a steady consistent pressure?
 
Vision said:
The seated chair method sounds pretty interesting.. I'm going to try that one..
Do you keep your posture straight and look forward? All the while pressing your heels to the floor? Do you press and hold and release, or do you keep a steady consistent pressure?
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Yes, posture nice and straight, legs at 45deg, I keep a steady pressure, I know you can hold and release and repeat as well, I found holding it worked best for me.

Another one to help me sleep, is to think about a blank piece of paper. Just the paper, white, nothing else, because it is blank, it also helps to free my mind from thought while your actually thinking about something, and can put me to sleep very quickly.
 
heckler7 said:
unless its Allah's will to do so
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Allah doesn't want you to kill yourself. He has war, crime and deadly diseases to do it.

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Rajput said:
Allah doesn't want you to kill yourself. He has war, crime and deadly diseases to do it.

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I was referring to martyrdom, isnt that the new thing all the kids are doing these days.
 
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heckler7 said:
I was referring to martyrdom, isnt that the new thing all the kids are doing these days.
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Thats sort of when you try to kill someone but get shot in the face instead.

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Yeah, I was once engaged to this chick that was so super cool and were one together, if that makes any sense to you. But, she ended up doing herself in. That was about 20 years ago and I still miss her dearly. I'm currently married and have some awesome kids; however, when my ex died, I have always felt like there is a part of me missing, even still today.
Abombs said:
Thanks bro....Yea he was so talented and funny but I've read all about his troubles and his tormented mind and drug use just a sad ending. People who commit suicide don't realize the pain they leave behind they really don't. The ones that cared about them are always left asking questions they are never going to get answered...sucks
Click to expand...
 
Vision said:
...your actually the one passing judgement claiming that any of us consider ourselves hollier than thou...
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Edit: I will acquiesce only because I am not certain you support the open post or are just opening a discussion and I just don;t have time to follow the thread which is why i try to avoid posting to begin with. Nothing wrong with opinions though i get triggered when people either pass judgement on or tell others how to live their lives which has no direct impact on them.
 
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As someone who dealt with their ex stealing their gun and threatening to kill themselves. Blowing red lights and searching ever side street and alleyway while on the phone with PD trying to find them.

Several years of having to be the one to keep them moving forward. Scheduling doctor visits, forcing them to wake up and take meds so that they dont wind up missing dosages (because they would sleep for 20+ hours at a time and miss their meds).

Seeing the emotional pain, the anguish, trying to do everything to hold that person together.


My take on suicide is its selfish as fuck.


But unless you have physically been there to see someone who is truly suicidal and not "I'm sad I am going to kill myself because I'm stupid and just want attention". Unless you have watched it and lived it with them and seen the hurt and the suffering that they deal with. I dont think you can really ever sit there and judge someone for doing it.

Depending on the circumstances, as gruesome and as cold hearted as it may seem, it's more selfish to fight them tooth and nail to keep them around
 
A lot of good stuff in this thread...

Exception is the dumb illiterate comment made by a nigger.


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