Prepping For IFBB Pro Show With IronLion

REHH · May 10, 2019

I took this pic today while we were training. My buddy getting ready for his 2nd pro bodybuilding show. About 8 weeks out.

Using Orangetop Puretropins and injectables made with Ironlion raws, you can see the results.

Also he just signed his first long term legit contract with a company that is paying him a steady income for his endorsement as a Pro Bodybuilder.

lifter916 · May 10, 2019

REHH said:
I took this pic today while we were training. My buddy getting ready for his 2nd open pro show. About 8 weeks out.

Using Orangetops Puretropins and injectables made with Ironlion raws, you can see the results.

Also he just signed his first long term legit contract with a company that is paying him a steady income for his endorsement as a Pro Bodybuilder.

.. what is his height and weight? Looks really good

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malfeasance · May 10, 2019

REHH · May 10, 2019

lifter916 said:
.. what is his height and weight? Looks really good

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5'9" 265 at start of prep
Currently 235
Stage weight 212(212 division)

malfeasance said:
iu?

4( 2 am, 2 pm)

lifter916 · May 10, 2019

REHH said:
5'9" 265 at start of prep
Currently 235
Stage weight 212(212 division)

4( 2 am, 2 pm)

Sorry for the newb question..but i don't know shit about contests..is that typical for a competitor to drop 50lbs too show date from start of prep? I'm guessing alot of water, correct?

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REHH · May 10, 2019

lifter916 said:
Sorry for the newb question..but i don't know shit about contests..is that typical for a competitor to drop 50lbs too show date from start of prep? I'm guessing alot of water, correct?

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Yes not unusual to drop 50lbs in a 12-16 week prep, I'd say 30-60lbs about average. And yes probably about half water or close to it. He might loose a little muscle too, he could compete in the open division if he wanted to push things a little further. He's still using typical recommend dosages on everything, many guys here on this forum using more than him. He also goes off everything 8-10 weeks 2-3× a year. Most guys have to push a lot more drugs to get to his level...and then there are those like me who could push tons of drugs and still not get there....lol; just shows how important genetics are to get to that level.

frank zazz · May 10, 2019

Good for him for the contract and some money will he start to increase his dosages now ?

Procard · May 11, 2019

REHH said:
Yes not unusual to drop 50lbs in a 12-16 week prep, I'd say 30-60lbs about average. And yes probably about half water or close to it. He might loose a little muscle too, he could compete in the open division if he wanted to push things a little further. He's still using typical recommend dosages on everything, many guys here on this forum using more than him. He also goes off everything 8-10 weeks 2-3× a year. Most guys have to push a lot more drugs to get to his level...and then there are those like me who could push tons of drugs and still not get there....lol; just shows how important genetics are to get to that level.

What he does in terms of drugs is old school. I know one guy who dieted from 310 to 275 but not much more than that. I try and stay around 220 at 7% body fat off season. I was on stage at 4-5% and 211lbs. The difference is , and this is not just me this was the way everyone trained 30 years ago, we would not do large cycles in the off season, only for contest prep.

What would change in terms of prep is we ratchet up the cardio and increase drug intake. That is why they would eat more during contest prep than they did in the off season.

This guy is making a huge mistake. Diet to where you look best, do not shoot for a number. There is no way he would look good at 212.

And yes, he needs to get on a proper cycle. Everyone he competes against does. So do guys at the local and regional level. The 275 lb guy who beat me became a client. He runs a 2 gras of test base. Your guy needs to be on a minimum of 1500 test (week) 700 tren ace, a gram Mast, at least 1000 mgs/week. Anavar 100 mgs daily. Other orals ill be added as his prep progresses. His total needs to be at least 3 gams a week, plus as much GH as he can afford.

That is way, way less than most IFBB pros are running...less than half.

Procard · May 11, 2019

If you have to lose 50 lbs, even counting the 10 lbs of water you should drop in the last 2 days (diuretics) you were simply too fat when you started.

REHH · May 11, 2019

frank zazz said:
Good for him for the contract and some money will he start to increase his dosages now ?

Yeah probably go to open next year. I posted before about him being held back due to financial reasons. His current coach wanted him to do 212 again, then move up.

malfeasance · May 11, 2019

Open class at 5'9" - he is going to need a lot more bodyweight on stage, like 20 pounds or more, 30 if he wants to really make it.

HFO3 · May 11, 2019

Those shoulders are fricken mean looking

would love to see more photos as he progresses. subbed. Finally a bodybuilding thread on ASF! Lol

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Procard · May 11, 2019

Let me know if I can be of help. I know I can be testy at times, but the truth is I have been helped a great deal by this forum and have no problem giving back.

I know you said that your athlete has a coach...I don't want to step on any toes, but it is common (at this level) for an athlete to have 2 coaches. For example, a world record holding powerlifter/bodybuilder/martial artists has coach A for his weight/physical training. He also has coach B who runs his drug program.

The athlete will get together with his coaches, especially coach B, who will fully examine his goals and needs. Coach B will then custom design a program to fit the athletes needs, from gear to diuretics. Hypothetically, if I were coach B I would then order everything the athlete needs. I would then custom blend his steroid and other PED program.

Hypothetically, if any of my athletes have any problem, I drop everything and take care of them. For example (again hypothetical...I would never actually break any laws) one of my guys who is a professional combat athlete was having issues that could have either been estro or prolactin related. As I am sure you all know, this sort of problem is serious, once you get gyno an AI or SERM is no help, you need surgery. Therefore I raced out to my (hypothetical) client to have a one on one talk and try and figure out what is wrong. I also (again, hypo, LOL) personally delivered some A Dex and Nolva to ensure we head off the gyno problem before it gets out of hand.

If I can be of any help, please let me know. His raws will (hypo) come from Private Raws. Bodybuilders usually don't have much money and that fact can be worked around if they perform well.

Procard · May 11, 2019

Coach B will also run his diuretic program. There is a science based formula that must be followed. Also, I like to run a trial diuretic program at least a month out to see how the athlete responds. We don't want any issues the last few days of prep. I am much more conservative than most others regarding diuretics.

Edit: There is no way in Hell your should your guy be coming down to 212. That is absolutely nuts. I would have your guy completely shredded at around 230 or heavier.

Procard · May 11, 2019

Oops, I am sorry. It sounds like he is a sponsored athlete for Ironline. My apologies if it seems like I was trying to steal their business. I am sure your guy is in good hands. Nonetheless, I am still here if he or you need any help.

malfeasance · May 11, 2019

REHH said:
5'9" 265 at start of prep
Currently 235
Stage weight 212(212 division)

4( 2 am, 2 pm)

I feel sad

that he is cutting muscle at this point to get down to 212. It's hard to tell with a tank top on, but he looks close to being ready to step on stage now.

How long has he been on growth hormone now, and what is his impression of what it is doing for him differently? If I recall correctly, this is his first time with hgh?

REHH · May 11, 2019

Procard said:
Coach B will also run his diuretic program. There is a science based formula that must be followed. Also, I like to run a trial diuretic program at least a month out to see how the athlete responds. We don't want any issues the last few days of prep. I am much more conservative than most others regarding diuretics.

Edit: There is no way in Hell your should your guy be coming down to 212. That is absolutely nuts. I would have your guy completely shredded at around 230 or heavier.

I think he's at a place where he's a little too small for open but too big for 212. It's a tough call, we've had this conversation several times. Other people; coaches and IFBB pros are split on this too. He's far improved from the pro show he did last year where he beat half the guys, more lean mass, more muscle maturity and density. I think he could be looking at a top 5 finish for this show.

Procard · May 11, 2019

As has been noted by others, this athlete needs to run much larger doses. There is a poster on another board called BFG who is privy to quite a few programs run by top 10 guys at the Olympia. These programs will blow your mind with the amounts of gear.

Here is what your typical regional level NPC competitor runs at 16 weeks out: 1500 long estered test, 600 deca, 500 mast (increase to 700 as contests gets closer). Start at 400 tren e (long ester) as contest gets closer increase to 700 tren ace. Start on 100 mgs/day of anavar. Most pro's take double that....Dorian ran 250 a day. 12 weeks out add A Drol, 100 mgs on training days. When you are this far out D bol and similar orals are fine. As you get closer to your contest (3-4 weeks out) add Winstrol, 100 mgs a day. 2.5 weeks out add Halotestin. at 3-4 weeks out swap the test e for tet p or test ace.

Most pros are usn A Drol to fill out the last few days. I do not have knowledge of how this work (they also are running diuretics and plasma expanders). I just use Halo, winstrol, and anavar to fill out.

If you can afford it, take at least 5 iu's of pharm GH a day. If you find a good Chinese generic make it 8 iu's a day. If you have the money, take more.

At 6 weeks out you should be pretty lean. Run a trial diuretic run to see how your body responds. There are 3 types of diuretics and they must be taken in very strict and science informed manner. There is a formula of ratio's of Aldosterone blockers, Thiazides, and lasixs. The tral run ill inform us as to how your body responds. Adjust accordingly.

Do not touch diuretics, especially Lasix unless you really know what you are doing.

I would have your guy run 500 test and 300 Deca in the offseason. That will be his cruise.

Jswole220 · May 11, 2019

Procard said:
As has been noted by others, this athlete needs to run much larger doses. There is a poster on another board called BFG who is privy to quite a few programs run by top 10 guys at the Olympia. These programs will blow your mind with the amounts of gear.

Here is what your typical regional level NPC competitor runs at 16 weeks out: 1500 long estered test, 600 deca, 500 mast (increase to 700 as contests gets closer). Start at 400 tren e (long ester) as contest gets closer increase to 700 tren ace. Start on 100 mgs/day of anavar. Most pro's take double that....Dorian ran 250 a day. 12 weeks out add A Drol, 100 mgs on training days. When you are this far out D bol and similar orals are fine. As you get closer to your contest (3-4 weeks out) add Winstrol, 100 mgs a day. 2.5 weeks out add Halotestin. at 3-4 weeks out swap the test e for tet p or test ace.

Most pros are usn A Drol to fill out the last few days. I do not have knowledge of how this work (they also are running diuretics and plasma expanders). I just use Halo, winstrol, and anavar to fill out.

If you can afford it, take at least 5 iu's of pharm GH a day. If you find a good Chinese generic make it 8 iu's a day. If you have the money, take more.

At 6 weeks out you should be pretty lean. Run a trial diuretic run to see how your body responds. There are 3 types of diuretics and they must be taken in very strict and science informed manner. There is a formula of ratio's of Aldosterone blockers, Thiazides, and lasixs. The tral run ill inform us as to how your body responds. Adjust accordingly.

Do not touch diuretics, especially Lasix unless you really know what you are doing.

I would have your guy run 500 test and 300 Deca in the offseason. That will be his cruise.

I agree with what your saying as far as upping the doses but at the same time it’s not a one size fits all formal and what works for one man will not necessarily work for the next. If he’s trying to drop weight then why would he run all that gear? Now the off-season that’s a different story up the doses and increase the macros and see how much mass can be added to consider making some noise in open. If the man can add significant muscle mass in the off season then I would even consider taking a year off from competition and really trying to add as much mass as possible to possible be a legit threat. If he can accomplish the physique he has with the doses he has been running then he obviously has the genetics, diet, and training part down

REHH · May 11, 2019

malfeasance said:
I feel sad that he is cutting muscle at this point to get down to 212. It's hard to tell with a tank top on, but he looks close to being ready to step on stage now.

How long has he been on growth hormone now, and what is his impression of what it is doing for him differently? If I recall correctly, this is his first time with hgh?

Not long at all he's only on his second kit for this cycle, and has only ran 4 kits ever, the one he's on now makes his 4th. He ran two kits last year before his show.

Procard · May 11, 2019

REHH said:
I think he's at a place where he's a little too small for open but too big for 212. It's a tough call, we've had this conversation several times. Other people; coaches and IFBB pros are split on this too. He's far improved from the pro show he did last year where he beat half the guys, more lean mass, more muscle maturity and density. I think he could be looking at a top 5 finish for this show.

I am no longer in the loop. Over the last few years I have only worked with a very few IFBB pros. In the 90's, I knew everything. After the Olympia the Pros would do the Euro tour together Everyone knew what everyone else was doing. Dorian was not touring, but I was told that he ran tons of GH and 750 mgs of sustenon...a day. They took tons of gear, but insulin use was mh much lower.

The difference in todays' guy is they don't train as hard and they compensate with insulin. The old guys looked much more dense and grainy.

One thing I learned is to never shoot for a weight, just go where you look best.

However, running a more aggressive diuretic program might do the trick. Today, I only run diuretics for 4 days, but the program I was given was supposedly what all the pros out of S cal ran. I ran it once 25 years ago and won the show. It started 8 days out with an Aldosterone blocker. I titrated up, monitered my progress and introduced a Thiazide. Again, I titrated up. I did not touch and Lasix until the day of the show. I wanted to make the 198 class (3.% b fat) but was heavier. I lost 13 lbs of water in those last 2 days and easily made weight.

Your guy is 235 now. f he has been off gearand is not very fat then his weight should stay stable or only gop down a bit.

Lets say he is 1 week out, 225 and shredded. If he runs his diuretics right he has a good chance of making 212.

This guy has extremely virgin receptors. Put him on the gear combo I posted and he will grow like a weed. He will get stronger and more muscular. As the comp gets closer he will probably be more than 225 very lean.

Procard · May 11, 2019

Jswole220 said:
I agree with what your saying as far as upping the doses but at the same time it’s not a one size fits all formal and what works for one man will not necessarily work for the next. If he’s trying to drop weight then why would he run all that gear? Now the off-season that’s a different story up the doses and increase the macros and see how much mass can be added to consider making some noise in open. If the man can add significant muscle mass in the off season then I would even consider taking a year off from competition and really trying to add as much mass as possible to possible be a legit threat. If he can accomplish the physique he has with the doses he has been running then he obviously has the genetics, diet, and training part down

If he cuts his steroid use and drops weight he will not be competitive at all. The program you outline is for a guy who wants to look good on the beach, not an IFBB pro. He can't bank on genetics because everyone on stage with him already won the genetic lottery. I recommended 3 grams of gear/week for this guy. Most pros take 2-3 times that much.

If he is not willing to do that, I recommend that he not compete.

The last pro I worked with ran a pretty conservative cycle with no GH. He also wanted to take a vacation with his family 3 weeks before his show. I told him I could no longer work with him. He did not do well.

REHH · May 11, 2019

I think what we're looking at currently is about half what you stated.

Test E 700wk, converting to prop soon.
Tren A 350wk
Mast P 350wk, soon upping to 500-600
Anadrol 50mg per day
4iu hgh per day
1mg arimidex 2x week

things will be changing as it moves closer.

Procard · May 11, 2019

REHH said:
I think what we're looking at currently is about half what you stated.

Test E 600-700wk, converting to prop soon.
Tren A 350wk
Mast P 350wk, soon upping to 500-600
Anadrol 50mg per day
4iu hgh per day
1mg arimidex 2x week

This is close currently but things will be changing as it moves closer.

Hey, I wish him the best. I bet he is a wonderful father and husband. However, if that is all he is doing, I strongly recommend he not compete. Remember....what I laid out is what regional level amateurs are taking not IFBB pros. This sport is for people who are mentally questionable, like me.

REHH · May 11, 2019

Procard said:
Hey, I wish him the best. I bet he is a wonderful father and husband. However, if that is all he is doing, I strongly recommend he not compete. Remember....what I laid out is what regional level amateurs are taking not IFBB pros. This sport is for people who are mentally questionable, like me.

Lol. I look at it the opposite of you, he was able to get this far running very little drugs so he has a lot of room to grow if he wanted to push it to the next level.

Ronnie Coleman made it to the pro level without running any drugs at all.

Procard · May 11, 2019

REHH said:
Lol. I look at it the opposite of you, he was able to get this far running very little drugs so he has a lot of room to grow if he wanted to push it to the next level.

Ronnie Coleman made it to the pro level without running any drugs at all.

The Ronnie that got his procard is not the same athlete as the one that won the Olympias. Ronnie had great genetics, and an excellent work ethic. I am not privy to his cycles but he was sure doing a ton. His body transformed itself. It did not happen because of his barbeque sauce. If he had used more earlier in is career he could have won his Olympias sooner and gotten out before he really hurt himself. I respect him tremendously but he should have switched over to a higher rep program as he got older. Maybe the pressures of competing are what pushed him to never train lighter weights.

Ironically, big power body builders who train heavy for a long time respond really well to higher rep training, I have seen them actually look bigger because the muscle is more inflated, but that is another topic.

I think that Ronnie proves my point about the role of drugs in the sport. Your pro should stick with the advice of his handlers. I am just reporting what I know about local and regional shows.

malfeasance · May 12, 2019

HFO3 said:
Finally a bodybuilding thread on ASF!

We'll see if it turns into a thread, rather than a post.

Also, check your PMs.

malfeasance · May 12, 2019

REHH said:
things will be changing as it moves closer.

I hope that includes increasing the Tren while lowering the test.

malfeasance · May 12, 2019

REHH said:
Ronnie Coleman made it to the pro level without running any drugs at all.

Ah, geez, REHH, please don't spout that bullshit here! :roflmao:

You aren't talking to 14 year olds at the gym over summer break hoping to bulk up for football in the fall. :jerkit:

malfeasance · May 12, 2019

REHH said:
Lol. I look at it the opposite of you, he was able to get this far running very little drugs so he has a lot of room to grow if he wanted to push it to the next level.

I am hopeful we see the results of upping the dosages one day, but I agree with you it would not make much sense to do so now to compete in 212 when he is already so far over the target weight and already lean.

Prepping For IFBB Pro Show With IronLion

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