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IFBB pros and gear

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Let's step away from this entire topic and look at it from afar.. after we gather all of the data and information that everyone contributed it's beyond fair to say that there is no gold standard or secret.. just take a look around at the environment we are in, there is a very very likely chancethat many of us personally know or have had discussions with some who's who's regardless of their ranking but rather their achievements.. based on that alone it's fair to assess that dosages simply come in a variety.. and with all the PEDS that we have readily available, you can rest assure that a lot of them have no purpose for some of these pros, in fact don't be surprised to learn that many haven't used everything under the sun.. there is an old school local brutha around our way that no longer competes, he competed nationally and all this man ever does is test and EQ.. even till this very day.. I've mentioned some other compounds to him and his exact words were "the f*** is that?".. he's in his 50s and he's not too shabby.. he has a waistline like Brian buckhanan.. this man is seriously stuck in his way and he will not flex or bend for anything.. I'm sure if he talked a more aggressive approach he would have had greater accomplishments but the fact is he did just fine with what he had, and he's achieved many things that many of us will never even touch in a lifetime..
 
Vision said:
I will agree that there is some pros that don't use excessive amounts that people would think..when people say it's a much bigger world out there in reality the world is a lot smaller than people think.. people think everything is a conspiracy out there and there's all these big fucking secrets, the reality is people like to talk..
I'm sure a lot of us can talk about experiences with whom we met, who we know or who we know of.. I can say from my experience I've heard some guys responding the moderate dosages, at the same time other guys using insane amount of gear and some of the compounds you wouldn't even think that they would touch but they do..

I will name the top three compounds that I know off hand that are used with some crazy dosages by a lot of the pros..

Bold
Slin
Hgh
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These 3 specifically bc the food aspect of it I'm assuming?

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If you're buying 5cc drums, you're on the next level.

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CompoundLifts31 said:
These 3 specifically bc the food aspect of it I'm assuming?

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Nutrition partitioning, Gene and molecular expression and cellular biosynthesis, plus their abilities to translocate nutrients while evoking multiple party synergy with protein synthesis, insulin and igf levels, the list is endless - with the internal framework regarding muscle binding satellite nuclei into muscle cells, yielding growth of the myofibril ultimately displaying stronger, larger, more dense and mature muscle.. I'm talking about bonafide Alpha tissue!

These guys aren't playing around with superdrol, or esterless pre workouts and so on.. they are saving the volume and intake with AAS for a better investment..
 
Vision said:
Nutrition partitioning, Gene and molecular expression and cellular biosynthesis, plus their abilities to translocate nutrients while evoking multiple party synergy with protein synthesis, insulin and igf levels, the list is endless - with the internal framework regarding muscle binding satellite nuclei into muscle cells, yielding growth of the myofibril ultimately displaying stronger, larger, more dense and mature muscle.. I'm talking about bonafide Alpha tissue!

These guys aren't playing around with superdrol, or esterless pre workouts and so on.. they are saving the volume and intake with AAS for a better investment..
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I can understand EQ ran high because I it's so mild on sides. I'm on 600mg and it feels no different than being on TRT test mood/wellbeing wise. My dick works and I'm not growing bitch tits. I take a sip of aromasin once or twice a week and I'm gucci.
 
Vision said:
I have a bag of 10's.. they're fucking huge.. ordered them by mistake.. I'll take a pic later with a slin and a 3mL near it..LOL
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I have a bag of 60ml syringes......that's what all the pros use.
 
Skip Foursome said:
I had 60ml syringes at work, they were for injecting epoxy. When I first saw them my thought was these are for horse AAS?
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according to a tard. he heard from a guy on the internet that they heard that others use them for their daily injections.

I love hearsay
 
Skip Foursome said:
I had 60ml syringes at work, they were for injecting epoxy. When I first saw them my thought was these are for horse AAS?
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Protard is smirking while thinking "amateurs"..
He chews on ampules like their trail mix..
 
Great read bro! I can speak from personal experience that gear only enhances. I’ve used twice the gear in my 20’s and didn’t receive half the gains I get on a good diet on just a 250mg try dose. It’s not the gear... it’s their hard work, genetics and discipline.

I cringe every time someone asks me “what steroid will help me lose weight or put mass on”

I’m so tired of regurgitating the same explanation that I literally just give them a link now. But.. not everyone is willing to hear it. They still think there’s a magic drug that will do the work for them. Cause they’ve seen someone who TOLD them “this is what I took” not knowing ANYthing of their diet or routines. So... there’s that **


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ArgonCoagulator said:
Another ex- pro says 1.5g test as a base is a minimum for Natl or pro level he says "unless you're a genetic freak".
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Correct, 1.5 grams is standard....for local shows. African Americans can get away with less, but the Northern European guys take way, way more. I don't like saying this but black guys have more androgen receptors.

Also, they tend to not be crazy.
 
Vision said:
Protard is smirking while thinking "amateurs"..
He chews on ampules like their trail mix..
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LOL....God bless you. We need to start sticking together.

Lets step back and view things objectively for a moment. Our laws and cultural attitudes are completely fucked up. Yes, the amounts in competitive bodybuilding are insane, but so are our laws. Having said that Moderate usage will actually make you healthier. TRT and HRT will make you healthier.

Nonetheless, our legal system will put you away for a long time if you are busted. I mean come on guys.....Tone is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet, but he is looking at some serous time. He is getting a longer sentence than a rapist.

We need to stop fighting among ourselves because we are not the enemy. Stupidity is the enemy.
 
Procard said:
Correct, 1.5 grams is standard....for local shows. African Americans can get away with less, but the Northern European guys take way, way more. I don't like saying this but black guys have more androgen receptors.

Also, they tend to not be crazy.
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Ok so how does a white guy with less androgen receptors benefit from using more gear? I would think that would limit the amount he can effectively use and grow on. How does adding more mgs make up for less receptors?

I would think if anything the black guy would benefit more from higher does since he has more receptors to actually make use of the extra gear in his system.
 
Procard said:
Correct, 1.5 grams is standard....for local shows. African Americans can get away with less, but the Northern European guys take way, way more. I don't like saying this but black guys have more androgen receptors.

Also, they tend to not be crazy.
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Do you have any clinical data to support your information? because this topic has been brought up many times throughout numerous communities throughout the years regarding ARs and race.. and I hate to break it to you buddy but you do realize that AR's are found throughout the body on many many tissues and organs and just because it's a androgen receptor does not mean its role and responsibilities will immediately transcribed to muscle growth and density.. and please don't pull up some study with 50 year old men, because a lot of those articles are referring to prostate cancer and high DHT levels..

You do understand that there is no significant difference between races with serum levels? One race does not get a different standard protocol with hormonal replacement therapy.. it has been proven for the medical community's and cited numerous times that the response with androgens is insignificant with races regarding muscle mass and skeletal tissue.. and none of these were evaluated with AAS and supraphysiological dosages, so anything you were stating or suggesting is merely speculation..
 
ArgonCoagulator said:
Ok so how does a white guy with less androgen receptors benefit from using more gear? I would think that would limit the amount he can effectively use and grow on. How does adding more mgs make up for less receptors?

I would think if anything the black guy would benefit more from higher does since he has more receptors to actually make use of the extra gear in his system.
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Good point but it flew way over Protard's head :)
 
MindlessWork said:
Good point but it flew way over Protard's head :)
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As we already know androgens always upregulate under the presence of more androgens.. this includes all sorts of tissue throughout the body that receptors can be found on.. there is good and there is bad trade-offs..
 
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Vision said:
Do you have any clinical data to support your information? because this topic has been brought up many times throughout numerous communities throughout the years regarding ARs and race.. and I hate to break it to you buddy but you do realize that AR's are found throughout the body on many many tissues and organs and just because it's a androgen receptor does not mean its role and responsibilities will immediately transcribed to muscle growth and density.. and please don't pull up some study with 50 year old men, because a lot of those articles are referring to prostate cancer and high DHT levels..

You do understand that there is no significant difference between races with serum levels? One race does not get a different standard protocol with hormonal replacement therapy.. it has been proven for the medical community's and cited numerous times that the response with androgens is insignificant with races regarding muscle mass and skeletal tissue.. and none of these were evaluated with AAS and supraphysiological dosages, so anything you were stating or suggesting is merely speculation..
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I had this convo with Dr Larry Lipschultz. He is one of the top trt docs in the country. He said that black guys have more androgen receptors.
 
Procard said:
I had this convo with Dr Larry Lipschultz. He is one of the top trt docs in the country. He said that black guys have more androgen receptors.
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But of course you did..I suppose his subjective opinion could outweigh the clinical findings and research that supports that there is very little variation with androgen receptors and race.. what they have found is a greater presence of DHT in African American men, but at the same time they have found greater serum levels of testosterone in Asian men.. these are two different hormones, initiating different levels of activation at the AR sites "throughout the body".. I'm simply just asking you if you could better educate us, because I have never seen anywhere that supports a greater presence of AR's, but I have see numerous studies in articles supporting the presence of different androgens and metabolites alike..

do you have anything credible that can support this other than your word of a supposed conversation because that holds no weight.. I could tell you a thousand things that I've discussed with people,and what I heard on the left compared to the right contradicts one another..
 
Interesting. I've never read that Asians had higher levels, maybe that's why we're horny mofos who typically can be very strong for our smaller frames (I'm half Korean) and hot tempered.
 
ArgonCoagulator said:
Interesting. I've never read that Asians had higher levels, maybe that's why we're horny mofos who typically can be very strong for our smaller frames (I'm half Korean) and hot tempered.
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It gets pretty complex man the serum levels are pretty high but that's entirely different in regards to actual free test levels.. I believe from what I've read the Asians have a higher shbg if I'm not mistaken which will have a lower free test level.. but at the same time that can be beneficial because there's not a lot of androgen activity that's overly aggressive, maybe why a lot of Asians do not have certain diseases and disorders that the westerns have and they actually have a longer life spand.. the muscle density and is structurally smaller..I'll find the article in regards to it because I'm probably regurgitating some information that I have misconstrued.. and I would hate to falsely represent some information did I read before misleading you..
To my understanding black men have a higher testosterone level at an early age especially with children but it tampers down in balances out as they get older and more mature..but the conversion of testosterone into DHT is more aggressive compared to Asians and whites and Hispanics.. this could be a reason why the fat ratio is far different compared to white man.. but at the same time inside of each race you will have your variations of individuals that also possess different genetic traits with greater or lesser muscle volume.. but statistically proven black men have the appearance of larger skeletal muscle because of the presence of more DHT but that comes at a great cost and health risks which they are uncertain on but they're confident it's what causes a lot of prostate issues 4
For black men..
 
Vision said:
It gets pretty complex man the serum levels are pretty high but that's entirely different in regards to actual free test levels.. I believe from what I've read the Asians have a higher shbg if I'm not mistaken which will have a lower free test level.. but at the same time that can be beneficial because there's not a lot of androgen activity that's overly aggressive, maybe why a lot of Asians do not have certain diseases and disorders that the westerns have and they actually have a longer life spand.. the muscle density and is structurally smaller..I'll find the article in regards to it because I'm probably regurgitating some information that I have misconstrued.. and I would hate to falsely represent some information did I read before misleading you..
To my understanding black men have a higher testosterone level at an early age especially with children but it tampers down in balances out as they get older and more mature..but the conversion of testosterone into DHT is more aggressive compared to Asians and whites and Hispanics.. this could be a reason why the fat ratio is far different compared to white man.. but at the same time inside of each race you will have your variations of individuals that also possess different genetic traits with greater or lesser muscle volume.. but statistically proven black men have the appearance of larger skeletal muscle because of the presence of more DHT but that comes at a great cost and health risks which they are uncertain on but they're confident it's what causes a lot of prostate issues 4
For black men..
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Do you think alot of these characteristics are tied in with the Actn-3 Gene? Alot of black ppl have this gene, some whites do and some Asians (but fewer % do).

My black step brother lost his virginity long before puberty at age 8 or so, Flex Wheeler knocked up a girl when was 12, so I can see the early onset of DHT there. Alot of Asians are puffy and soft but a few are bulky or are thin/ripped almost like a black guy (myself included, well, before I bulked up to 190). There are several genes at play that keep black people lean and I don't know if this is solely due to hormone ratios or if it's just the genes themselves influencing fat storage and muscle performance and unfortunately diabetes, heart disease and other chronic health conditions as well. (actn-3).
 
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ArgonCoagulator said:
Do you think alot of these characteristics are tied in with the Actn-3 Gene? Alot of black ppl have this gene, some whites do and some Asians (but fewer % do).

My black step brother lost his virginity long before puberty at age 8 or so, Flex Wheeler knocked up a girl when was 12, so I can see the early onset of DHT there. Alot of Asians are puffy and soft but a few are bulky or are thin/ripped almost like a black guy (myself included, well, before I bulked up to 190). There are several genes at play that keep black people lean and I don't know if this is solely due to hormone ratios or if it's just the genes themselves influencing fat storage and muscle performance and unfortunately diabetes, heart disease and other chronic health conditions as well. (actn-3).
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Yes I believe this is what they have advocated and suggested inside of a lot of these reports.. like I said the rabbit hole gets very deep..people have to read it and re-read it and if they have a difficult time comprehending just simply do some research on that research to find a better understanding.. but the end result is people will find that there really is not a huge significance or overwhelming difference between races..
 
Lipshultz is world famous. He has zillions of publications. However that does not automatically mean he is right. I generally am uncomfortable with any thing that might contribute to racism. However, my interest is piqued. I am going to see if I can find some good peer reviewed articles.


Vision said:
But of course you did..I suppose his subjective opinion could outweigh the clinical findings and research that supports that there is very little variation with androgen receptors and race.. what they have found is a greater presence of DHT in African American men, but at the same time they have found greater serum levels of testosterone in Asian men.. these are two different hormones, initiating different levels of activation at the AR sites "throughout the body".. I'm simply just asking you if you could better educate us, because I have never seen anywhere that supports a greater presence of AR's, but I have see numerous studies in articles supporting the presence of different androgens and metabolites alike..

do you have anything credible that can support this other than your word of a supposed conversation because that holds no weight.. I could tell you a thousand things that I've discussed with people,and what I heard on the left compared to the right contradicts one another..
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It's not scientifically proven, but in bodybuilding circles it's common talk that Blacks and Italians tend to have good bodybuilding genetics. I think it's more to do with the bodybuilding phenotype being more common in those races, somewhat broad clavicles, narrow hips, short to medium height, aka Mesomorphic.
 
Procard said:
Here are a couple studies that found race related differences in androgen receptors: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2608588/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3833274/ Also, AA have shorter CAG repeat length. A short CAG means you're more sensitive to testosterone. Its bedtime, but I am sure I could find more studies that make the same conclusions.
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I knew you were going to post those hyperlinks and I said to you don't post anything related with the prostate, but sure enough you did.. because like I said these receptors are found throughout the body and if you want to attach yourself to receptors on the prostate to propel your statement that's fucking silly...
Furthermore nwhere does it express that there is more AR's in black males, no where does any of this support your initial statement..
 
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