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ArgonCoagulator said:
It's not scientifically proven, but in bodybuilding circles it's common talk that Blacks and Italians tend to have good bodybuilding genetics. I think it's more to do with the bodybuilding phenotype being more common in those races, somewhat broad clavicles, narrow hips, short to medium height, aka Mesomorphic.
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A good example is Sly Stallone who is Italian and he looks good for his 70s. Get this, he is going to be in yet another Rambo film!
 
Vision said:
I knew you were going to post those hyperlinks and I said to you don't post anything related with the prostate, but sure enough you did.. because like I said these receptors are found throughout the body and if you want to attach yourself to receptors on the prostate to propel your statement that's fucking silly...
Furthermore nwhere does it express that there is more AR's in black males, no where does any of this support your initial statement..
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You knew what I posted before I posted it....man, you are psychic. Can you tell me what the stock market will do over the next year?

These studies did not find a difference in number of receptors, but they did find over and over That the AR's are different. AA men have shorter CAG repeat lengths. Shorter repeat lengths increase your response/sensitivity to testosterone. So technically it is not quantity, the difference is in quality. I'm going to run this by Lipschultz and see what he says. To simplify, this difference is similar to SHBG. Lower SHBG means you make more test available. Lower CAG repeat lengths are like lower SHBG.

You may not ike the fact taht mot studies are related to the prostate but do you really think there will be a study of bodybuilders taking massive amounts of illegal gear? That is a fast trak to losing your license. PhDs live in the academic world were political agendas are more important than science. I lived in this world for 20 years. A study of racial differences is the fast track for losing your career.

On the other hand, a study of prostate cancer in AA men IS Politically correct. That is why there are plenty of them. I could post 10 of them. Every one of them come to the same conlsions: There are substantial racial difference in AR's.

I like you...your smart. I don't want school you but the extant scientific literature does not support your claim. Personal attacks, like calling me Protard, dickhead or whatever means you have no intellectual ability or evidence to engage me on the scientific facts. You lose credibility this way.
 
I like you...your smart. I don't want school you but the extant scientific literature does not support your claim. Personal attacks, like calling me Protard, fucktard dickhead or whatever means you have no intellectual ability or evidence to engage me on the scientific facts. You lose credibility this way. This goes to Frank...he does not have the intellectual capacity to engage and understand the science, so the only thing he can do is call me fucktard. Frank said "you told this story 2 months ago." Duh, my client competed last week. He set a new world record of 650 lbs on the bench press. However, his goal is 700. He is going to compete again in September.

So now his response is calling me fucktard. What usually happens next is someone like me gets banned. However, people are watching. I am gettng a ton of PM's over this. Focus on the extant literature and evidence instead of personal attacks, people will respect you for doing so. If I get banned for disagreeing whit you getting a new IP and coming back is a very simple matter.

People are watching. Stick to the science.
 
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MindlessWork said:
A good example is Sly Stallone who is Italian and he looks good for his 70s. Get this, he is going to be in yet another Rambo film!
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The biggest and strongest bodybuilders are usually Northern European. The prettiest bodybuilders are black.
 
MindlessWork said:
A good example is Sly Stallone who is Italian and he looks good for his 70s. Get this, he is going to be in yet another Rambo film!
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Most Italians have African in there genes somewhere do to slave trade flowing through there.

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So, going back to the original post, somebody post up what they think is Milo's cycle. You can't do it from the information he provided.

A lot of debate in this thread about pro dosages based on absolutely nothing.
 
Procard said:
You knew what I posted before I posted it....man, you are psychic. Can you tell me what the stock market will do over the next year?

These studies did not find a difference in number of receptors, but they did find over and over That the AR's are different. AA men have shorter CAG repeat lengths. Shorter repeat lengths increase your response/sensitivity to testosterone. So technically it is not quantity, the difference is in quality. I'm going to run this by Lipschultz and see what he says. To simplify, this difference is similar to SHBG. Lower SHBG means you make more test available. Lower CAG repeat lengths are like lower SHBG.

You may not ike the fact taht mot studies are related to the prostate but do you really think there will be a study of bodybuilders taking massive amounts of illegal gear? That is a fast trak to losing your license. PhDs live in the academic world were political agendas are more important than science. I lived in this world for 20 years. A study of racial differences is the fast track for losing your career.

On the other hand, a study of prostate cancer in AA men IS Politically correct. That is why there are plenty of them. I could post 10 of them. Every one of them come to the same conlsions: There are substantial racial difference in AR's.

I like you...your smart. I don't want school you but the extant scientific literature does not support your claim. Personal attacks, like calling me Protard, dickhead or whatever means you have no intellectual ability or evidence to engage me on the scientific facts. You lose credibility this way.
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Yes I knew what you were going to post because if you read my post in post #108 I said don't post anything prostate related.. and you turned around and posted that exact content.. I seen you coming a mile away with this nonsense...
I highly doubt anyone is sending you private messages patting you on the back..
And like I stated prior I have seen these studies numerous times especially where they express shbg levels and so on, And in regards to the the AR expression they are simply emphasizing on the confrontational change in specific Target tissue.. skeletal tissue is not all one in the same..
You can sit here and regurgitate statements from these articles all you want because I know exactly which ones you're pulling the information from..
Like I said I see you coming a mile away..

Protard, you lost credibility a long time ago especially when you came back numerous times trying to support your findings with a black man's prostate, over and over again.. I called you out before you even did it..

Good day sir...
 
tren2k14 said:
Most Italians have African in there genes somewhere do to slave trade flowing through there.

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Most African Americans have European blood as well. Ever notice this: Take an average looking black person and an average looking white person and their kids are gorgeous.
 
Vision said:
Yes I knew what you were going to post because if you read my post in post #108 I said don't post anything prostate related.. and you turned around and posted that exact content.. I seen you coming a mile away with this nonsense...
I highly doubt anyone is sending you private messages patting you on the back..
And like I stated prior I have seen these studies numerous times especially where they express shbg levels and so on, And in regards to the the AR expression they are simply emphasizing on the confrontational change in specific Target tissue.. skeletal tissue is not all one in the same..
You can sit here and regurgitate statements from these articles all you want because I know exactly which ones you're pulling the information from..
Like I said I see you coming a mile away..

Protard, you lost credibility a long time ago especially when you came back numerous times trying to support your findings with a black man's prostate, over and over again.. I called you out before you even did it..

Good day sir...
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You need to improve your reading comprehension. I explained why the studies on prostate cancer are all we have when we are examining androgen receptors. They all find that CAG speed is dramatically different for AA' then European Americans. Also, you cannot tell me to reject a whole field of study. It is bad science. You should be better than that.

You have not provided one shred of evidence or peer reviewed studies to reject this claim. Do you even know what CAG repeat time is? Do you understand how AR CG is critical to androgen sensitivity? You did call me names again which only embarrasses you and undermines forum credibility.

Stick to the science. Show me some good studies that counter the massive amount of evidence we have that there are substantive differences in AR's.
 
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Ethnic Variation in Allele Distribution of the Androgen Receptor (AR) (CAG)[SUB]n[/SUB] Repeat rates: The androgen receptor (AR) is important in reproductive organ development, as well as tissue homeostasis of the pancreas, liver, and skeletal muscle in adulthood. The trinucleotide (CAG)[SUB]n[/SUB] repeat polymorphism in exon 1 of the AR gene is thought to regulate AR activity, with longer alleles conferring reduced receptor activity. Therefore, the evaluation of the allelic distribution of the AR (CAG)[SUB]n[/SUB] repeat in various ethnic groups is crucial in understanding the interindividual variability in AR activity. We evaluated ethnic variation of this AR polymorphism by genotyping individuals from the multiethnic Hyperglycemia and Adverse Pregnancy Outcome study cohort. We genotyped 4421 Caucasian mothers and 3365 offspring of European ancestry; 1494 Thai mothers and 1742 offspring; 1119 Afro-Caribbean mothers and 1142 offspring; and 780 Hispanic mothers and 770 offspring of Mexican ancestry from Bellflower, California. The distributions of (CAG)[SUB]n[/SUB] alleles among all 4 ethnic groups are significantly different (P < .0001). Pairwise tests confirmed significant differences between each pair of ethnicities tested (P < 10[SUP]−28[/SUP]). The relative AR (CAG)[SUB]n[/SUB] repeat length in the different groups was as follows: Afro-Caribbean (shortest repeat lengths and greatest predicted AR activity) < Caucasian < Hispanic < Thai (longest repeat length and lowest predicted AR activity). Significant interethnic differences in the allele frequencies of the AR exon 1 (CAG)[SUB]n[/SUB] polymorphism exist. Our results suggest that there may be potential ethnic differences in androgenic pathway activity and androgen sensitivity.


Source, Ackerman et al.

This study included women and men but the conclusion was the same.
 
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One very interesting finding was that Asian Americans have higher overall testosterone levels than back or whites, but they also have higher SHBG levels and thus they have no advantage in free test.
 
Procard said:
You need to improve your reading comprehension. I explained why the studies on prostate cancer are all we have when we are examining androgen receptors. They all find that CAG speed is dramatically different for AA' then European Americans. Also, you cannot tell me to reject a whole field of study. It is bad science. You should be better than that.

You have not provided one shred of evidence or peer reviewed studies to reject this claim. Do you even know what CAG repeat time is? Do you understand how AR CG is critical to androgen sensitivity? You did call me names again which only embarrasses you and undermines forum credibility.

Stick to the science. Show me some good studies that counter the massive amount of evidence we have that there are substantive differences in AR's.
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Do you even know what CAG repeat time is? And please don't pull the first thing that comes up on Google.. you are simply regurgitating information and asking the questions in which I already told you I have already read many times over.. now you're giving me a quiz?

I've been sticking to science this entire time.. ;)

Calling you Protard is name calling? I guess sarcastic banter get your feathers ruffled..

And I do agree to an extent that there is a lot of data that makes references in regards to different races and the effects on the prostate, but there is also a lot more data out there that doesn't involve the explanation and variations in prostate cancer incidences.. but yet you have failed to show anyting that illustrates a greater expression in the AR's with AAM outside of the prostate..
 
Vision said:
But of course you did..I suppose his subjective opinion could outweigh the clinical findings and research that supports that there is very little variation with androgen receptors and race.. what they have found is a greater presence of DHT in African American men, but at the same time they have found greater serum levels of testosterone in Asian men.. these are two different hormones, initiating different levels of activation at the AR sites "throughout the body".. I'm simply just asking you if you could better educate us, because I have never seen anywhere that supports a greater presence of AR's, but I have see numerous studies in articles supporting the presence of different androgens and metabolites alike..

do you have anything credible that can support this other than your word of a supposed conversation because that holds no weight.. I could tell you a thousand things that I've discussed with people,and what I heard on the left compared to the right contradicts one another..
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Procard said:
One very interesting finding was that Asian Americans have higher overall testosterone levels than back or whites, but they also have higher SHBG levels and thus they have no advantage in free test.
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we already went over that.. Next
 
Procard said:
The biggest and strongest bodybuilders are usually Northern European. The prettiest bodybuilders are black.
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How do you suppose these N. Euro guys overcome their slightly less efficient ARs? Do they overcome this by being so large in bone structure compared to Africans?
 
Procard said:
One very interesting finding was that Asian Americans have higher overall testosterone levels than back or whites, but they also have higher SHBG levels and thus they have no advantage in free test.
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Yeah Vision touched on that yesterday.

I wonder if Asian's test levels are higher to compensate for higher SHBG, or if their test levels being so high is what is causing higher SHBG...? All I know is they are the only people I've seen where politicians have a "courtroom brawl". Extremely aggressive people.
 
ArgonCoagulator said:
Yeah Vision touched on that yesterday.

I wonder if Asian's test levels are higher to compensate for higher SHBG, or if their test levels being so high is what is causing higher SHBG...? All I know is they are the only people I've seen where politicians have a "courtroom brawl". Extremely aggressive people.
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This is where things can get pretty tricky.. it's not a matter of the highest testosterone serum but rather how much of that is free in bioavailable.. Asians to my understanding from what all the literature, studies and articles suggest is that they have the lowest androgen sensitivity.. this could be a reason why they are smaller framed, not as much body hair as Western people and so on..but do keep in mind that within certain races you will have your differences between individuals as well.. a lot of these studies and data is gathered with the majority rather than individuals.. in regards to noticing that they show aggression inside of their politics which I have also noticed is I believe that's more of a cultural thing.. from what history has taught us and what is the obvious is that a lot of the Asian countries feel very disrespected when their owner is insulted.. because if you notice there is a lot of other diverse groups in the world that are clearly larger but at the same time show great restraint, because that is what they're social standards expect..that's just my observation if that makes any sense..
 
ArgonCoagulator said:
They have have alot of middle eastern genes too apparently. Italy is pretty much a mix of the surrounding countries, including N. Africa.
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Yea its actually sub sub-saharan african genes that are prominent in them especially if your from Sicily. My wife is and her family hates when I call them Africans. Of course I do it to piss them off not racist one bit but Italians don't like being called anything but Italian. Say something like that to them be prepared to fight for your life lol. Her family has ties with some um I'll just let you guess.

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ArgonCoagulator said:
Yeah Vision touched on that yesterday.

I wonder if Asian's test levels are higher to compensate for higher SHBG, or if their test levels being so high is what is causing higher SHBG...? All I know is they are the only people I've seen where politicians have a "courtroom brawl". Extremely aggressive people.
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Most Asians also score higher than Europeans on IQ tests. The original progenorator of this fact was nearly run out of the academy. In the university political agendas drive research funding more so than science. That is why you tend to only see AR studies related to prostate cancer. However, variation in AR receptors and CAG time is determined at a cellular level. That means that findings can be extrapolated to everything, not just the prostate.

In the academic world examining racial variations will destroy your career. The same goes for gender. The politically correct position is that there are no differences between race or gender. Cat scans show dramatically different brains between men and women.
 
Vision said:
Do you even know what CAG repeat time is? And please don't pull the first thing that comes up on Google.. you are simply regurgitating information and asking the questions in which I already told you I have already read many times over.. now you're giving me a quiz?

I've been sticking to science this entire time.. ;)

Calling you Protard is name calling? I guess sarcastic banter get your feathers ruffled..

And I do agree to an extent that there is a lot of data that makes references in regards to different races and the effects on the prostate, but there is also a lot more data out there that doesn't involve the explanation and variations in prostate cancer incidences.. but yet you have failed to show anyting that illustrates a greater expression in the AR's with AAM outside of the prostate..
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Did you even read what I wrote? Above I explained that CAG repeat time has a tremendous impact upon androgen sensitivity. Like SHBG, the lower the score the better the performance. Why do you keep refusing to unpack this finding. Your response to my question "did you even read what I wrote" was "did you even read what I wrote." Why do you insist on playing semantics instead of studying the evidence?
 
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tren2k14 said:
Yea its actually sub sub-saharan african genes that are prominent in them especially if your from Sicily. My wife is and her family hates when I call them Africans. Of course I do it to piss them off not racist one bit but Italians don't like being called anything but Italian. Say something like that to them be prepared to fight for your life lol. Her family has ties with some um I'll just let you guess.

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From my Palermo days ill tell you if you go and tell a southern italian that be prepared to get head butted or hit by a rock or something.


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Genetic differences in the androgen receptor itself contributesgreatly to its ability to respond to testosterone and otherandrogens. (WangQ, et al 1998, Robbins 2005) Shorter CAG equals more androgensensitivity

One of the most critical geneticdifferences found is called the CAG repeat polymorphism (ZitzmannM, Nieschlag 2003). The number and speed of CAGrepeats an individual has in his or her androgen receptor genedetermines how effective his or her androgen receptor is at bindingtestosterone; (PalazzoloI, Gliozzi A, et al., 2008 Zitzmann M, Gromoll J, et al)
Short CAG repeatshave the same symptoms of men with high testosterone levels,increased skeletal muscle mass, lower good cholesterol (HDL), andhave an earlier onset of prostate cancer. (Zitzmann 2003).
 
I love this thread. Every day since the day I posted it, I’ve sat back and laughed my ass off. I’m kicking myself for not starting it in the pit instead. I posted this well knowing what it was going to turn out to be
 
Sherk said:
I love this thread. Every day since the day I posted it, I’ve sat back and laughed my ass off. I’m kicking myself for not starting it in the pit instead. I posted this well knowing what it was going to turn out to be
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Move it so the fun can begin
 
Sherk,

Are you saying that you trolled? Bad Mod! And Vision.....you did not provide one shred of evidence to reject the facts and multiple studies that proved my point. Were it a boxing match it would have been stopped long ago. I posted many studies proving racial differences in AR's you did not post 1, all you could muster was to call me tool.
 
Anonim said:
From my Palermo days ill tell you if you go and tell a southern italian that be prepared to get head butted or hit by a rock or something.


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Oh I tell them everytime I see them lol.

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