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Depression and lethargy on cycle

Swolewelder

Swolewelder

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Anyone ever had bad depression and lethargy on cycle? I’m cuttently running TPP/NPP/MastP 500mg each PW along with 50mg Proviron and 100mg anavar per day. I’ve cut back on my aromasin because I’m worried it’s estrogen related. Haven’t been able to get bloods done because of my work schedule but I’m planning on it ASAP. I’ve just not been myself lately... no drive or motivation to work out or even eat properly... anyone had this happen before?
 
When I ran npp I got wicked depressed.

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When people experience this during a cycle a lot of times it could be related to adrenal fatigue..
Also, there could be an in balance with the serotonin and dopamine levels, it doesn't necessarily mean dopamine levels could be low but rather dopamine receptors are non-responsive, downregulated so to speak.. everything stated above is merely speculation without blood work or knowing your history..

In the meantime you can incorporate DHEA (this may help with adrenal fatigue symptoms)..5-HTP (this can improve neuro secretions and improve your sense of well-being)..

In the meantime try to cut back on any caffeine, pre-workout or other major stimulants because this can down-regulate your dopamine receptors..
Take a few days off from the gym if need be and just unplug,during that time don't have any stimulants or anything and just give your body some adequate rest along with nutrients.. a system restart so to speak!

If the symptoms persist I would make it a priority to get blood work and also talk to your physician and maybe possibly go on some low dose antidepressant (Wellbutrin is a great drug with improving that feel good feeling along with sustained energy like effects).. it's not an overly aggressive drug that will put you on cloud nine at the same time affecting you sexually.. very low to moderate dosages can go a long way..
 
Vision said:
When people experience this during a cycle a lot of times it could be related to adrenal fatigue..
Also, there could be an in balance with the serotonin and dopamine levels, it doesn't necessarily mean dopamine levels could be low but rather dopamine receptors are non-responsive, downregulated so to speak.. everything stated above is merely speculation without blood work or knowing your history..

In the meantime you can incorporate DHEA (this may help with adrenal fatigue symptoms)..5-HTP (this can improve neuro secretions and improve your sense of well-being)..

In the meantime try to cut back on any caffeine, pre-workout or other major stimulants because this can down-regulate your dopamine receptors..
Take a few days off from the gym if need be and just unplug,during that time don't have any stimulants or anything and just give your body some adequate rest along with nutrients.. a system restart so to speak!

If the symptoms persist I would make it a priority to get blood work and also talk to your physician and maybe possibly go on some low dose antidepressant (Wellbutrin is a great drug with improving that feel good feeling along with sustained energy like effects).. it's not an overly aggressive drug that will put you on cloud nine at the same time affecting you sexually.. very low to moderate dosages can go a long way..
Click to expand...

Exactly. Great info here
 
Vision said:
When people experience this during a cycle a lot of times it could be related to adrenal fatigue..
Also, there could be an in balance with the serotonin and dopamine levels, it doesn't necessarily mean dopamine levels could be low but rather dopamine receptors are non-responsive, downregulated so to speak.. everything stated above is merely speculation without blood work or knowing your history..

In the meantime you can incorporate DHEA (this may help with adrenal fatigue symptoms)..5-HTP (this can improve neuro secretions and improve your sense of well-being)..

In the meantime try to cut back on any caffeine, pre-workout or other major stimulants because this can down-regulate your dopamine receptors..
Take a few days off from the gym if need be and just unplug,during that time don't have any stimulants or anything and just give your body some adequate rest along with nutrients.. a system restart so to speak!

If the symptoms persist I would make it a priority to get blood work and also talk to your physician and maybe possibly go on some low dose antidepressant (Wellbutrin is a great drug with improving that feel good feeling along with sustained energy like effects).. it's not an overly aggressive drug that will put you on cloud nine at the same time affecting you sexually.. very low to moderate dosages can go a long way..
Click to expand...
I agree with almost all of this but depending on the person and personality, be careful of anti-depressants. I was prescribed Wellbutrin to help with my OCD and became suicidal within a couple of weeks. As soon as I recognized this side effect I stopped the Wellbutrin immediately and felt no suicidal tendencies within about a week. I will never take an anti-depressant again. YMMV, however just be aware of your moods and thoughts and proceed cautiously. I hope you get it figured out, the 5-htp and DHEA are both very good recommendations.

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socalmk6gti said:
I agree with almost all of this but depending on the person and personality, be careful of anti-depressants. I was prescribed Wellbutrin to help with my OCD and became suicidal within a couple of weeks. As soon as I recognized this side effect I stopped the Wellbutrin immediately and felt no suicidal tendencies within about a week. I will never take an anti-depressant again. YMMV, however just be aware of your moods and thoughts and proceed cautiously. I hope you get it figured out, the 5-htp and DHEA are both very good recommendations.

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Me to bro antidepressants made it so i literally just didn't give a fuck at all even abkut being alive.

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socalmk6gti said:
I agree with almost all of this but depending on the person and personality, be careful of anti-depressants. I was prescribed Wellbutrin to help with my OCD and became suicidal within a couple of weeks. As soon as I recognized this side effect I stopped the Wellbutrin immediately and felt no suicidal tendencies within about a week. I will never take an anti-depressant again. YMMV, however just be aware of your moods and thoughts and proceed cautiously. I hope you get it figured out, the 5-htp and DHEA are both very good recommendations.

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Click to expand...

I'm very much against antidepressants but at the same time that makes me a hypocrite because I have Incorporated them in my life when need be.. me personally I'm an advocate with exhausting all resources possible before using antidepressants, antidepressants are pushed down people's throats to frivolously but at the same time some people do in fact need them..
That's why I gave the suggestion to speak with his physician and "possibly" consider Wellbutrin.. that's why I made the recommendation of low dosage,because a lot of people will have different interactions and I'm a firm believer that with antidepressants less can be more.. a lot of specialists are pill pushers and people are over-medicated.. these drugs can be an added bonus or like in your instance an unforeseen potential hazard..

When considering these drugs low dosage is the way to go this way people can better assess and gauge how they feel..

my feelings are so mixed with these drugs because of my experiences good and bad.. they have killed people and at the same time save the lives, go figure!
 
2.6 grams per week of 5 different hormones?

Maybe it's me but I could not hang. Your endocrine system can handle only so much.

Let me qualify, my endocrine system cannot handle that much. I've tried it, I call it hormone sickness.

Drop a few and lower the dose. I bet you will feel way better. All that is not worth it in my experience.

Your results may vary......:)
 
Time for TRT for a few months bro. I agree with skip.
 
I agree with skip too. That's a lot of gear to be taking each week. I'm willing to bet though, like another poster suggested, that it's the NPP causing your issue. When I was still using it, I tolerated tren fairly well, but anything over about 300mg/wk of NPP gives me really bad anxiety, which I found odd. It took me awhile to figure out what was causing it. I've heard from others it caused depression, and even panic attacks. I would eliminate the NPP first to see if it's the culprit.
 
IML Gear Cream!
Vision said:
I'm very much against antidepressants but at the same time that makes me a hypocrite because I have Incorporated them in my life when need be.. me personally I'm an advocate with exhausting all resources possible before using antidepressants, antidepressants are pushed down people's throats to frivolously but at the same time some people do in fact need them..
That's why I gave the suggestion to speak with his physician and "possibly" consider Wellbutrin.. that's why I made the recommendation of low dosage,because a lot of people will have different interactions and I'm a firm believer that with antidepressants less can be more.. a lot of specialists are pill pushers and people are over-medicated.. these drugs can be an added bonus or like in your instance an unforeseen potential hazard..

When considering these drugs low dosage is the way to go this way people can better assess and gauge how they feel..

my feelings are so mixed with these drugs because of my experiences good and bad.. they have killed people and at the same time save the lives, go figure!
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I've always loved your posts, this one however earns extra respect from me. Thank you for always dropping knowledge bombs and providing proper guidance for us old and new to the forums.

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I'm running the same brand and blend you are.. however, I'm running 1cc m/w/f .. as well as test e @ 500mg/wk... The totals come out to 800mg test / 300mg npp/ 300mg mast per week.. to me its my biggest cycle yet... I feel great tho..good energy/ mood is up..no depression or lethargy at all... Maybe it's because I'm running a higher ratio of test than the other compounds and/or I'm running less npp.. I'm not sure..but honestly I feel great..in 4th week of cycle btw... Hopefully you get dialed in and can alleviate your issues..were all a bit different in how we respond to AAS..good luck dude

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Thats a lot of gear, Some guys get lethargy from too much orals so you may want to dial that back a bit and see how you feel 150mg daily of orals would be a no go for me.

Does your piss look like tea?
 
heavyiron said:
Thats a lot of gear, Some guys get lethargy from too much orals so you may want to dial that back a bit and see how you feel 150mg daily of orals would be a no go for me.

Does your piss look like tea?
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Yeah me too...I'd drop the orals too.

The NPP could be the problem too
 
The paradox with 3 of the 4 hormones mentioned (test,mast and proviron) they are essentially the most favored when it concerns that "feel good effect" that we look for when running compounds, now at this moment each one contradicts what you're attempting to achieve (feel good and grow)..Therefore like mentioned in post #3, I'm leaning heavily on cortisol for a good reason!

Let's look at your supra-physiological dosages of Testosterone (which has 3 mechanisms of action,1-testosterone, 2-conversion to estro, 3-conversion to DHT) and your other compounds like mast/proviron..Basically, your reaction with these compounds/hormones by way of exogenous sources along with their aggressiveness as a potent hormone (DHT) and interplay's with E2 (by was of test conversion) all these can significantly decrease the corticosterone and ACTH response through its pathways, by initiating a response via the hypothalamus..

I'll include a study that explains more on how Dihydrotestosterone and it's derivative can potentially display some cross-reactivity that will disrupted corticolsteroids which may possess blocking properties of cortisol..In a nut shell, DHT's could possibly act somewhat as a cortisol "blocker" in sensitive users..End result, adrenal fatigue like symptoms!

Just my take, I'm no specialist..I'm just looking at things from a different approach, it may not be the most popular belief, but it's a start for answers.. Anyone else?:thinking:
_________________________

J Neurosci. 2006 Feb 1;26(5):1448-56.
The androgen 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone and its metabolite 5alpha-androstan-3beta, 17beta-diol inhibit the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal response to stress by acting through estrogen receptor beta-expressing neurons in the hypothalamus.

Lund TD1, Hinds LR, Handa RJ.
Author information

Abstract

Estrogen receptor beta (ERbeta) and androgen receptor (AR) are found in high levels within populations of neurons in the hypothalamus. To determine whether AR or ERbeta plays a role in regulating hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis function by direct action on these neurons, we examined the effects of central implants of 17beta-estradiol (E2), 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the DHT metabolite 5alpha-androstan-3beta, 17beta-diol (3beta-diol), and several ER subtype-selective agonists on the corticosterone and adrenocorticotropin (ACTH) response to immobilization stress. In addition, activation of neurons in the paraventricular nucleus (PVN) was monitored by examining c-fos mRNA expression. Pellets containing these compounds were stereotaxically implanted near the PVN of gonadectomized male rats. Seven days later, animals were killed directly from their home cage (nonstressed) or were restrained for 30 min (stressed) before they were killed. Compared with controls, E2 and the ERalpha-selective agonists moxestrol and propyl-pyrazole-triol significantly increased the stress induced release of corticosterone and ACTH. In contrast, central administration of DHT, 3beta-diol, and the ERbeta-selective compound diarylpropionitrile significantly decreased the corticosterone and ACTH response to immobilization. Cotreatment with the ER antagonist tamoxifen completely blocked the effects of 3beta-diol and partially blocked the effect of DHT, whereas the AR antagonist flutamide had no effect. Moreover, DHT, 3beta-diol, and diarylpropionitrile treatment significantly decreased restraint-induced c-fos mRNA expression in the PVN. Together, these studies indicate that the inhibitory effects of DHT on HPA axis activity may be in part mediated via its conversion to 3beta-diol and subsequent binding to ERbeta.
 
This whole adrenal fatigue potential with AAS use has me a bit perplexed. Why? Because I recently read that it's solved by the use of cortisol, but as many of you know, the inhibition of excessive cortisol is supposed to be one of the mechanisms that allows AAS compounds to aid in muscle building/muscle retention. Obviously too much cortisol prevents muscle building/muscle repair. So if cortisol inhibition can cause lethargy/fatigue during an AAS cycle, then how can we possibly hope to find and maintain a cortisol level sweet spot??? And that doesn't even touch the topic of possibly having to get a physician's cooperation for cortisol administration, since most docs might just tell you to ease up on your workout intensity or frequency, and that would be the end of the conversation.

I guess the DHEA that Vision made mention of might be the only possible remedy for many of us during a gear blast, ( aside from backing off on a heavy gear dosage of course).
 
You eat any red meat? Yes? Ok you are not b12 deficient
 
hj2 said:
You eat any red meat? Yes? Ok you are not b12 deficient
Click to expand...
Some individuals lack the enzyme in their stomach to synthesize or absorb vitamin B-12, ( I think it's called the intrinsic factor) and they become anemic as a result, (too many white blood cells and not enough red ones) but I believe that is a very low percentage of the general population which has that condition
 
Tall Deck said:
Some individuals lack the enzyme in their stomach to synthesize or absorb vitamin B-12, ( I think it's called the intrinsic factor) and they become anemic as a result, (too many white blood cells and not enough red ones) but I believe that is a very low percentage of the general population which has that condition
Click to expand...

This and something also people need to consider and it's very misunderstood and not widely talked about is the fact that some vitamins and minerals can actually cancel out other ones.. the number one contributor worldwide The people's health and well-being is seriously diet.. and some people lack certain enzymes and some people have other health-related issues unbeknownst to them all the while eating clean and healthy while getting diminishing returns..
 
Lot of good info in here guys sorry I don’t have time to respond to everyone but I agree that it is too much gear... I’m going to drop the dosage down by half for a few weeks and see how it goes. This has been counter productive for me at this point because I’m not accomplishing ANYTHING, so if anything I’m wasting perfectly good drugs hahah. But seriously thanks for the input guys, a lot of knowledgeable, straightforward responses
 
If I were you on a 8 week cycle, I would use:

Test P-600mg per week
Mast P-300mg per week
Anavar-50mg per day

Aromasin as needed. Use daily dosing schedule and do not skip days.

That is a feel good combination and most anyone would get very good results.
 
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