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Electric Tankless Water Heaters...

GarlicChicken

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Get Shredded!
So I've been fighting with my old electric tank heater that feeds the two bathrooms in my house and I'm losing. Bottom element is toast and I can't get it out because it's rusted solid, the heater is 41 years old (literally!) and the elements haven't been changed for probably 10. Current tank is 52gal.

I'm looking at going to a tankless on demand one. This obviously has it's own complications, but I think it's money better spent putting in the electrical than just replacing the tank. I'm looking hardest at the EcoSmart ECO 27, which can output 3gpm @ 37° inlet temp and up to 6gpm with normal inlet water. This is a self modulating unit that adjusts inlet pressure to accommodate more output. This requires 112.5A, which means I have to run 00 copper to a sub panel, with 3 40A breakers to feed it. Obviously a nice chunk of change since 00 is over $1/' with an estimated 80' run, but not much more than just replacing the tank.

What are you guys thoughts on doing this? Any serious drawbacks if I put in a properly sized tankless? Let me know what you think guys. Much appreciated!
 
My water heater went out yesterday im looking at going tankless too. I have one element gone and keep having to hit the reset. I would replace the element but its got a little leak too.



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Im looking to go natural gas instead of electric.

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Tankless is the way to go but you may have times where water comes out cold until it heats and then goes cold when the hot water runs low. In some cases you might need more than one tankless unit to provide plenty of hot water. Regular water heaters generally should be replaced every 7-10 years.
 
Seasonal water temperature swings effect their performance as well. We have one in our RV and when we are in cold climates it’s tough to get the water over 80-90.


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Yeah my bottom element is toast and I can't get it out. I actually was able to lift the entire tank off the floor with a breaker bar and 1 1/2" socket lol. Tried replacing the thermostats but that didn't work, the element itself is toast.

I've read that gas can be a bit of a pain since you'd have to run a dedicated gas line to it, which is a lot more difficult than pulling electric and putting in the conduit and sub panel.
 
Tankless is the way to go but you may have times where water comes out cold until it heats and then goes cold when the hot water runs low. In some cases you might need more than one tankless unit to provide plenty of hot water. Regular water heaters generally should be replaced every 7-10 years.



Seasonal water temperature swings effect their performance as well. We have one in our RV and when we are in cold climates it’s tough to get the water over 80-90.


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These were the concerns I had. I *think* with the right size of heater, this can be overcome. This particular model produces a 50° change at 3gpm when water temps are 50°, which mine is usually above that. That would be about 100-110° water at full production.

I should only be pulling about 2gpm at max draw is my thought, between two low flow showers. Rarely will there be both going at the same time in my place.
 
Tankless would be the way i would go. You can add a circulator to have instant hot water. If i lived in states where it got really cold, i would do gas, as some powerlines go down during an ice storm.
 
I have not looked but do the gas need to be vented too?? Im thinking it might be easier for electric for me too like GC was saying.

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So I've been fighting with my old electric tank heater that feeds the two bathrooms in my house and I'm losing. Bottom element is toast and I can't get it out because it's rusted solid, the heater is 41 years old (literally!) and the elements haven't been changed for probably 10. Current tank is 52gal.

I'm looking at going to a tankless on demand one. This obviously has it's own complications, but I think it's money better spent putting in the electrical than just replacing the tank. I'm looking hardest at the EcoSmart ECO 27, which can output 3gpm @ 37° inlet temp and up to 6gpm with normal inlet water. This is a self modulating unit that adjusts inlet pressure to accommodate more output. This requires 112.5A, which means I have to run 00 copper to a sub panel, with 3 40A breakers to feed it. Obviously a nice chunk of change since 00 is over $1/' with an estimated 80' run, but not much more than just replacing the tank.

What are you guys thoughts on doing this? Any serious drawbacks if I put in a properly sized tankless? Let me know what you think guys. Much appreciated!
Who carries the echo smart your looking at?

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IML Gear Cream!
Who carries the echo smart your looking at?

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Amazon man. $430 for the ECO 27 model. It requires 3 40A inputs because it had three elements. It's the biggest one outside of the one that draws 150A! That's a ridiculous amount of amperage, I doubt I could even run a 150A heater without creating mini brownouts.

Just running the 112.5 amps is going to require me to pull a pair of 00 wires from my breaker to the closet it's in, installing the conduit and subpanel, and then splitting it to 3 40A breakers. It's gonna cost at least $160 just for the 00 cabling since it's over $1 per foot. Still only comes out to a total cost of about $700 to switch vs about $620 just to replace it with another crappy 50gal tank.

There's better ones out there, but these are the best I've found for the price by far. Lifetime warranty on electric components, elements, and exchanger. No labor included in warranty, but a monkey can take these apart and work on them
 
I have not looked but do the gas need to be vented too?? Im thinking it might be easier for electric for me too like GC was saying.

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I think so since there's a pilot light. Same as any other gas appliances I'd imagine
 
I figure no one would mind me posting this link. This is their website that has exact outputs of each model at different temps. I suggest testing your cold water temp before purchasing or doing any prep work so you get the right one.

https://www.ecosmartus.com
 
Steibel are supposed to be bad ass but they're really expensive considering they don't do much alone and beyond the EcoSmart ones. I suggest avoiding Rheem anything since every plumber I've talked to hates them, even the commercial ones suck from what I'm hearing
 
Amazon man. $430 for the ECO 27 model. It requires 3 40A inputs because it had three elements. It's the biggest one outside of the one that draws 150A! That's a ridiculous amount of amperage, I doubt I could even run a 150A heater without creating mini brownouts.

Just running the 112.5 amps is going to require me to pull a pair of 00 wires from my breaker to the closet it's in, installing the conduit and subpanel, and then splitting it to 3 40A breakers. It's gonna cost at least $160 just for the 00 cabling since it's over $1 per foot. Still only comes out to a total cost of about $700 to switch vs about $620 just to replace it with another crappy 50gal tank.

There's better ones out there, but these are the best I've found for the price by far. Lifetime warranty on electric components, elements, and exchanger. No labor included in warranty, but a monkey can take these apart and work on them

This is incorrect.
For 3 40A 240V circuits you would run 2 #8CU per circuit plus a ground. You can run 3 - 8/2w/g Romex cables and supply the circuits with 3 - 2pole 40A breakers.
 
Sounds like you done your research, I looked into it for my house when my water heater went out, but found I would need 2 units so went hack to a tank. Like mentioned they don't work well in cold climates or for big houses with long runs. Electric need lots of power, gas is better but needs to be vented.
 
I think I would need the eco 36 and damn 150 amps! If it actually pulls 150 amps when its in use thats crazy. I would like to know if thats continuous draw or on peak demand. If its less flow is it using less current draw? I think I will call them and ask a little more. Before i get one and tell the kids and wife they have to turn off everything in the house to use the hot water.

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This is incorrect.
For 3 40A 240V circuits you would run 2 #8CU per circuit plus a ground. You can run 3 - 8/2w/g Romex cables and supply the circuits with 3 - 2pole 40A breakers.
Why couldn't I just pull 2 #00 and ground to a subpanel and then break the separate circuits off there with the 3 2 pole 40A breakers? Instead of running 3 8/2 all the way from the main panel. It's all the way across the house from my main panel (of course).

Plus I don't have room in my main panel to put in any more breakers so I have to put in a sub panel one way or another.
 
Get Shredded!
Sounds like you done your research, I looked into it for my house when my water heater went out, but found I would need 2 units so went hack to a tank. Like mentioned they don't work well in cold climates or for big houses with long runs. Electric need lots of power, gas is better but needs to be vented.
Yeah I have two tanks in my house right now, one feeds the kitchen and the other one feeds the two bathrooms. I'm pretty sure I can use the 27kW model and have plenty of hot water. I'm not in a very cold climate, it might freeze over night a couple times a winter. I do have well water though, so I'm going to test the incoming water temperature when I get back home because I want to be sure
 
I think I would need the eco 36 and damn 150 amps! If it actually pulls 150 amps when its in use thats crazy. I would like to know if thats continuous draw or on peak demand. If its less flow is it using less current draw? I think I will call them and ask a little more. Before i get one and tell the kids and wife they have to turn off everything in the house to use the hot water.

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Yeah isn't that nuts? 150A is ridiculous. You'd need a third leg off the pole lol. I think the draw is at peak since these are adjustable temperature. I know they don't immediately draw full power either to prevent the power fluctuations like some of the cheaper ones cause. My dad has a cheap Rheem and it makes the lights flicker when it kicks on.

I'm pretty sure, depending on inlet temp, that less flow will draw less power since it takes less heat/energy to heat it to temp. These ones are self modulating, which I'm pretty sure makes them more efficient.
 
my recommendation is get a new tanked hot water heater, I have a tankless and I would not recommend one.
I've heard this from a few people now, but it seems it's mostly because the unit is undersized from the people I've actually talked to in person. I'm curious how many amps yours is and how much it's feeding simultaneously
 
So I've been fighting with my old electric tank heater that feeds the two bathrooms in my house and I'm losing. Bottom element is toast and I can't get it out because it's rusted solid, the heater is 41 years old (literally!) and the elements haven't been changed for probably 10. Current tank is 52gal.

I'm looking at going to a tankless on demand one. This obviously has it's own complications, but I think it's money better spent putting in the electrical than just replacing the tank. I'm looking hardest at the EcoSmart ECO 27, which can output 3gpm @ 37° inlet temp and up to 6gpm with normal inlet water. This is a self modulating unit that adjusts inlet pressure to accommodate more output. This requires 112.5A, which means I have to run 00 copper to a sub panel, with 3 40A breakers to feed it. Obviously a nice chunk of change since 00 is over $1/' with an estimated 80' run, but not much more than just replacing the tank.

What are you guys thoughts on doing this? Any serious drawbacks if I put in a properly sized tankless? Let me know what you think guys. Much appreciated!

Had tankless in the house put in a few years ago. Had to replace it a couple times in about a 5 year span and went back to a tank heater. Didn't like having to wait so long for hot water in the shower. I think it can affect dishwasher and laundry then too.
 
Why couldn't I just pull 2 #00 and ground to a subpanel and then break the separate circuits off there with the 3 2 pole 40A breakers? Instead of running 3 8/2 all the way from the main panel. It's all the way across the house from my main panel (of course).

Plus I don't have room in my main panel to put in any more breakers so I have to put in a sub panel one way or another.

You could do that, didn't see you were trying to put a sub panel in. (You are not using electrician lingo lol) However you would only need a 125A MLO panel with either 1/0AL or #1CU as feeders because you can take advantage of the residential derating.
 
You could do that, didn't see you were trying to put a sub panel in. (You are not using electrician lingo lol) However you would only need a 125A MLO panel with either 1/0AL or #1CU as feeders because you can take advantage of the residential derating.

Yeah I'm definitely not an electrician haha. I really appreciate the feedback! I don't know the lingo, I've just learned from talking to some family and what I know from datacenter power lol. I didn't think I could get 120A across 80-90' with #1Cu but that's good to know! Costs a lot less than the bigger stuff, coper is getting crazy expensive these days
 
Seasonal water temperature swings effect their performance as well. We have one in our RV and when we are in cold climates it’s tough to get the water over 80-90.


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Heated water hose helps. I work in the road and live out of my RV and you have to get heated in the winter time to keep from freezing but in your case it would be handy for the tankless any time temps got a little low. For a 25' one it's like 108 bucks
 
Yeah I'm definitely not an electrician haha. I really appreciate the feedback! I don't know the lingo, I've just learned from talking to some family and what I know from datacenter power lol. I didn't think I could get 120A across 80-90' with #1Cu but that's good to know! Costs a lot less than the bigger stuff, coper is getting crazy expensive these days

It would depend on the load and resistance of the wire but #1 has very low ohmic losses. In large residences (3500 sqft +) 80-90ft runs are pretty common.
 
It would depend on the load and resistance of the wire but #1 has very low ohmic losses. In large residences (3500 sqft +) 80-90ft runs are pretty common.
Thank you again for all the advice!

Wanted to give an update on this.

I got it installed and it's working great. Without flow restrictors (I've always taken these out of my shower heads) I can run 2 showers at the same time with about 109° water at the shower head. Just hot enough to take a shower. I'm putting flow restrictors back in so I can run both at once and still be able to run a sink. Not bad.

I installed a 27kW EcoSmart system and I run well water that's pretty cold for the region.

There's definitely some shortcomings, like you have to fill the tub a little slower for a bath, and there are temperature fluctuations when there's more demand. But all in all, I like it much better than the old tank. Looking forward to my next energy bill (that sounds weird) to see the difference in cost. It was installed exactly on the reset of the read date so I should be able to see what difference there is, and I'll keep everyone updated!
 
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