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ART Topic of the Week - Lessons Learned

IML Gear Cream!
CompoundLifts31 said:
How about say if someone is taking 250mgs test/ 1000mgs eq? I know Eq is a modified version of test and only half as androgenic. Would you recommend an AI then? Maybe .5 Anastrozole 2x pw?

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Yeah eq doesn't aromitase nearly as much as test so it'll be negligible really. You'll probably be just fine.
 
Swolewelder said:
Bro this is blowing my mind right now. So I’m running 12.5mg aromasin EOD while on 600mg of test C a week and y’all are saying that I shouldn’t be running an AI? This goes against everything I thought I understood lol why not run a low dose AI to prevent possible sides before they occur??
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Didnt you post a thread about gyno surgery?

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Reading..
 
Skinnyguy180 said:
Didnt you post a thread about gyno surgery?

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Reading..
Click to expand...
Yes I did, I have some existing pubertal gyno from when I was younger, that’s why I always assumed I would DEFINITELY need to run an AI.
 
Seems most vets commenting here agree about overuse of Ai's..

Hope this question below is ok to ask here., if not will a mod please delete.

To the Vets :
Seems the consensus is that Ai's are overused.,
How do you guys feel about gear.?
Is gear itself overused.? If so., any stories or info to share about the "lessons learned" from overuse of gear.?

I know many xfactor's come into play but this is just in general..??
 
Swolewelder said:
Yes I did, I have some existing pubertal gyno from when I was younger, that’s why I always assumed I would DEFINITELY need to run an AI.
Click to expand...

Im not supposed to be giving advice in this thread but would not assume every piece of advice applies to you. everyone is different some people get gyno easily. some people don't have to worry about it. some people lose all there hair quickly some don't have to worry about it. Some get acne every where some don't have to sorry about it. You need to look at your situation as an individual and evaluate how to proceed.
 
Skinnyguy180 said:
Im not supposed to be giving advice in this thread but would not assume every piece of advice applies to you. everyone is different some people get gyno easily. some people don't have to worry about it. some people lose all there hair quickly some don't have to worry about it. Some get acne every where some don't have to sorry about it. You need to look at your situation as an individual and evaluate how to proceed.
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I see what you are saying. it is very true that some are luckier in the aromatization category than others, I guess I just got fucked lmao
 
Cool info. Surprised by the overuse of AI's in the thread.

Question,... I run as little AI as possible on cycle but this past cycle I had itchy/puffy nips for the first time. Would you guys recommend nolva over more AI?
 
Swolewelder said:
Bro this is blowing my mind right now. So I’m running 12.5mg aromasin EOD while on 600mg of test C a week and y’all are saying that I shouldn’t be running an AI? This goes against everything I thought I understood lol why not run a low dose AI to prevent possible sides before they occur??
Click to expand...

Keep doing what you are doing.

Tren and TV8 are correct of course, bodybuilders have run higher estrogen and benefit from it.

I used to let mine get up to the 50s and 60s and had great results.

But more recently I have read about the prostate having estrogen receptors and the linkage of prostate enlargement and cancer associated with it.

Now I keep my estrogen in the mid 20s if I can, and still get good results.

But that's me, I'm no bodybuilder.
 
If you don’t truly understand nutrition (no shame in admitting that), pay somebody who does. Best money you can spend. Take in and learn from what they teach you.
 
Nocode8511 said:
Question,... I run as little AI as possible on cycle but this past cycle I had itchy/puffy nips for the first time. Would you guys recommend nolva over more AI?
Click to expand...

What I have done in the past if I am already on an AI and gyno symptoms still appear is to add in nolvadex at 20mg/day for the first week, and then 10mg/day until the symptoms disappear. I do not increase my AI dose as some others would suggest. This is assuming that my estradiol is within my preferred range (upper 50s to upper 70s). If my e2 had skyrocketed to 150 then obviously I would adjust my AI dose to bring that down. Bloodwork, bloodwork, bloodwork.

I have also used nolvadex in this manner with no AI.
 
Get Shredded!
TouaregV8 said:
Overtraining in my teens. Lee Haney said it best, "stimulate, don't annihilate." I've trained each muscle group 1x per week since my early 20s.
It's more about nutrition and less about gear.
You shouldn't run 2 19-nors simultaneously. Bullshit.
Even though tren already said it, it must be stated again...AIs are the #1 abused compound.
Protein shakes are no replacement for whole foods. Bullshit. I drink 1-2 everyday, but I also make sure I hit my macros everyday as well.
Squats are your friend.
And based on my most recent thread in the Pit, I learned that I'm a creepy old man.
Click to expand...

i agree with this . If your protein shake has all your nutrients, then I see no problem having them more frequently through the day. It’s all about getting your Marcos in and eating clean.
 
The problem with protein shakes is that they rarely contain what the label says. So you, say, "It's all about getting your macros," but in reality you are not. You might be getting half or less of the protein you think you are getting, and that's even if you can digest that crap or sit there bloated and farting all evening until your wife wants to leave the bedroom.

Supplement manufacturers are by and large scam artists who use bullshit marketing to separate you from your hard earned dollars. Even those that are not get their raw materials from the same place as those who are.

8 ounces of chicken breast, or hamburger, or turkey, or bison, or salmon, or eggs! - you know what you are getting. Protein powder - you really do not know what you are getting. You are getting somebody's cheap powder, mixed with chemicals that fake a palatable taste, that managed to show a certain nitrogen content score on FDA testing. Nitrogen, not protein.

This is a 7 billion dollar business based on scam marketing to consumers.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmo...ck-protein-ripping-off-athletes/#ed4597777293 Note they do not even deny it. Instead they claim that they meet the FDA rules, that is, they pass the nitrogen test and get to label their product with a complete lie about the protein content.

Do not include the "60 grams of protein" from your lying, scam artist shake label in your macros. If you do, you are just lying to yourself.
 
Not so much lesson learned but what I have learned from experience and from others. I guess it would be lessons learned, more like experienced over time. I always subscribed to the idea of networking with those that are smarter and more educated or experienced on what you are learning.


GENETICS
I have seen Heavy say it, a coach I used worked with pros says it and guys that compete all know it, genetics, genetic, genetics.

Your genetics will only take you so far. Taking a bunch of drugs and over training will not change that.

I see so many guys here that run a fuck ton of AAS and GH thinking that will get them monster status, but honestly it is just a quicker trip to being six feet underground.

In many conversations with guys in the industry and with few exceptions, pros use less AAS then 90% of the guys here.

And I guess this goes with genetics......age. Father time is a bitch, time to accept that and realize your limitations. I have no problem with it. By training smart, using mild to moderate doses of drugs and having a meal plan that works I have achieved a lot over time.


AAS
As I stated AAS will only take you as far as your genetics will allow you. Lately I have seen guys with no business running 5, 10 and even 15ius a day of GH and are nowhere near where they need to be to even justify more than 2-3ius a day.


DIET
This is where the rubber hits the road and I admit struggled with in the beginning. If you are not measuring to the ounce and even better, to the gram what you are eating 5-6 times a day you are wasting money on drugs and time training in the gym.

Rather than spend $300 a month on AAS and GH, get diet figured out first, hire a coach for $100-$150 a month. My best cut was under advice of a coach and it was on a cruise dose of test, that's it. All about diet and training effectively is what got me down to an estimated 8% body fat, not drugs.


TRAINING
Guys over Training, under training and training incorrectly are very common.............and sometimes that goes for me too.

It is easy to go through the motions like a zombie. I see it all the time, guys on their phones, taking long breaks between sets, using same routines for more than 6-8 weeks, training chest 3 days a week (why do guys train chest three times a week?) guys never training legs and so on.

I will preface this by saying I am 60 so very important to me at this time in life.......my experience is that I can get better results from (and less injuries) by training higher volume with less weight and more time under tension compared to higher weight, lower volume with less time under tension. I think it is very important as we get older you understand you are not giving up anything building LBM by going higher volume using lower weight with more time under tension.


BLOOD CHEMISTRY
Obviously you need to do this at least twice a year, I do this four times a year. I have had so many surprises from doing this and I cannot count how many times I have tweaked the drugs I use to get better health markers. I even scrathed some drugs off my list, they are not a healthy choice for me.

I will also add that lab analysis is only a snap shot of your blood chemistry, it is not indicative of the last three months.

Most notably I have seen cholesterol and liver values move up and down within a few weeks by as much as double on some numbers.


ADVICE FROM OTHERS
This is dangerous from what I have seen here lately. Not going to call anyone out, just saying I have seen some horrible advice on this board lately. Guys that have no experience and have no business giving other guys without experience advice.

Be careful with this. If you have done home work and still not sure about a topic, start a thread or ask a Mod or other respected community member for advice.

Typically but not always guys with low posts are potentially a risk to take advice from. The new members that act like know it all are typically run off within a few months and for a good reason.

- - - Updated - - -

roscoe221 said:
If you don’t truly understand nutrition (no shame in admitting that), pay somebody who does. Best money you can spend. Take in and learn from what they teach you.
Click to expand...
Agreed 100%
 
Well said Skip.
Xxxooo


Skip Foursome said:
Not so much lesson learned but what I have learned from experience and from others. I guess it would be lessons learned, more like experienced over time. I always subscribed to the idea of networking with those that are smarter and more educated or experienced on what you are learning.


GENETICS
I have seen Heavy say it, a coach I used worked with pros says it and guys that compete all know it, genetics, genetic, genetics.

Your genetics will only take you so far. Taking a bunch of drugs and over training will not change that.

I see so many guys here that run a fuck ton of AAS and GH thinking that will get them monster status, but honestly it is just a quicker trip to being six feet underground.

In many conversations with guys in the industry and with few exceptions, pros use less AAS then 90% of the guys here.

And I guess this goes with genetics......age. Father time is a bitch, time to accept that and realize your limitations. I have no problem with it. By training smart, using mild to moderate doses of drugs and having a meal plan that works I have achieved a lot over time.


AAS
As I stated AAS will only take you as far as your genetics will allow you. Lately I have seen guys with no business running 5, 10 and even 15ius a day of GH and are nowhere near where they need to be to even justify more than 2-3ius a day.


DIET
This is where the rubber hits the road and I admit struggled with in the beginning. If you are not measuring to the ounce and even better, to the gram what you are eating 5-6 times a day you are wasting money on drugs and time training in the gym.

Rather than spend $300 a month on AAS and GH, get diet figured out first, hire a coach for $100-$150 a month. My best cut was under advice of a coach and it was on a cruise dose of test, that's it. All about diet and training effectively is what got me down to an estimated 8% body fat, not drugs.


TRAINING
Guys over Training, under training and training incorrectly are very common.............and sometimes that goes for me too.

It is easy to go through the motions like a zombie. I see it all the time, guys on their phones, taking long breaks between sets, using same routines for more than 6-8 weeks, training chest 3 days a week (why do guys train chest three times a week?) guys never training legs and so on.

I will preface this by saying I am 60 so very important to me at this time in life.......my experience is that I can get better results from (and less injuries) by training higher volume with less weight and more time under tension compared to higher weight, lower volume with less time under tension. I think it is very important as we get older you understand you are not giving up anything building LBM by going higher volume using lower weight with more time under tension.


BLOOD CHEMISTRY
Obviously you need to do this at least twice a year, I do this four times a year. I have had so many surprises from doing this and I cannot count how many times I have tweaked the drugs I use to get better health markers. I even scrathed some drugs off my list, they are not a healthy choice for me.

I will also add that lab analysis is only a snap shot of your blood chemistry, it is not indicative of the last three months.

Most notably I have seen cholesterol and liver values move up and down within a few weeks by as much as double on some numbers.


ADVICE FROM OTHERS
This is dangerous from what I have seen here lately. Not going to call anyone out, just saying I have seen some horrible advice on this board lately. Guys that have no experience and have no business giving other guys without experience advice.

Be careful with this. If you have done home work and still not sure about a topic, start a thread or ask a Mod or other respected community member for advice.

Typically but not always guys with low posts are potentially a risk to take advice from. The new members that act like know it all are typically run off within a few months and for a good reason.

- - - Updated - - -


Agreed 100%
Click to expand...
 
malfeasance said:
The problem with protein shakes is that they rarely contain what the label says. So you, say, "It's all about getting your macros," but in reality you are not. You might be getting half or less of the protein you think you are getting, and that's even if you can digest that crap or sit there bloated and farting all evening until your wife wants to leave the bedroom.

Supplement manufacturers are by and large scam artists who use bullshit marketing to separate you from your hard earned dollars. Even those that are not get their raw materials from the same place as those who are.

8 ounces of chicken breast, or hamburger, or turkey, or bison, or salmon, or eggs! - you know what you are getting. Protein powder - you really do not know what you are getting. You are getting somebody's cheap powder, mixed with chemicals that fake a palatable taste, that managed to show a certain nitrogen content score on FDA testing. Nitrogen, not protein.

This is a 7 billion dollar business based on scam marketing to consumers.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmo...ck-protein-ripping-off-athletes/#ed4597777293 Note they do not even deny it. Instead they claim that they meet the FDA rules, that is, they pass the nitrogen test and get to label their product with a complete lie about the protein content.

Do not include the "60 grams of protein" from your lying, scam artist shake label in your macros. If you do, you are just lying to yourself.
Click to expand...

yikes. I don’t disagree with what you are saying at all. If anything I definitely agree. I’m a vegan and there isn’t any protein options that taste good at all.
Plant protein powder however is proven to be easy on the stomach and carry benefits. Now , I always do major research and only get the cream of the crop high qualty ones. I am living proof that whatever I’m drinking has what I need because I’ve gotten amazthings by results. I can’t speak on most of the industry or whey protein, but yeah... depends on what brand you use. And in my opinion before I was vegan, any whey protein I had caused stomach issues like crazy. It was usually garbage like you stated.
The same goes with actual food, when I wasn’t a vegan , I wouldn’t just buy chicken ... I’d do my research and get the better quality.
 
Chrisptrt said:
yikes. I don’t disagree with what you are saying at all. If anything I definitely agree. I’m a vegan and there isn’t any protein options that taste good at all.
Plant protein powder however is proven to be easy on the stomach and carry benefits. Now , I always do major research and only get the cream of the crop high qualty ones. I am living proof that whatever I’m drinking has what I need because I’ve gotten amazthings by results. I can’t speak on most of the industry or whey protein, but yeah... depends on what brand you use. And in my opinion before I was vegan, any whey protein I had caused stomach issues like crazy. It was usually garbage like you stated.
The same goes with actual food, when I wasn’t a vegan , I wouldn’t just buy chicken ... I’d do my research and get the better quality.
Click to expand...

I agree with Malfeasance also. Most of the supplement industry is a joke making outrageous claims that are backed by nothing. They can say whatever they want on the labels and there's no one to hold them accountable for it. I do believe that there are some good companies out there that incorporate the ingredients as they are indicated on the label, and I say that based on my results that I have been using supplements, proteins, etc., from reputable and trusted companies.

********** Labs has been one of these companies that doesn't include the ingredients in their products that they say they do. John Meadows blew the whistle on them a couple years ago and ended up parting ways with them because he didn't want to be associated with their brand. He went off on his own and started his own company, Granite Supplements.
 
Chrisptrt said:
yikes. I don’t disagree with what you are saying at all. If anything I definitely agree. I’m a vegan and there isn’t any protein options that taste good at all.
Plant protein powder however is proven to be easy on the stomach and carry benefits. Now , I always do major research and only get the cream of the crop high qualty ones. I am living proof that whatever I’m drinking has what I need because I’ve gotten amazthings by results. I can’t speak on most of the industry or whey protein, but yeah... depends on what brand you use. And in my opinion before I was vegan, any whey protein I had caused stomach issues like crazy. It was usually garbage like you stated.
The same goes with actual food, when I wasn’t a vegan , I wouldn’t just buy chicken ... I’d do my research and get the better quality.
Click to expand...

If you are a vegan and getting results then I would say you have already put in the work of researching what works, because that is a much tougher road to follow. It can be done, but not half assed.

You should post some threads in the Diet and Nutrition subform about the basics of putting together sufficient protein on a vegan diet. There aren't too many others here (anybody?) who could provide that sort of useful reference information.
 
TouaregV8 said:
********** Labs has been one of these companies that doesn't include the ingredients in their products that they say they do.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that, guys. I wasn't thinking. Thank you for the edit.
 
IML Gear Cream!
malfeasance said:
If you are a vegan and getting results then I would say you have already put in the work of researching what works, because that is a much tougher road to follow. It can be done, but not half assed.

You should post some threads in the Diet and Nutrition subform about the basics of putting together sufficient protein on a vegan diet. There aren't too many others here (anybody?) who could provide that sort of useful reference information.
Click to expand...

ill take that as a compliment hah. And I would be honored . I know it’s kind of taboo to be vegan in the fitness world but I’m doing my best.
 
Chrisptrt said:
ill take that as a compliment hah. And I would be honored . I know it’s kind of taboo to be vegan in the fitness world but I’m doing my best.
Click to expand...

To be honest its kinda cool. You keep up on your fats, b12, etc?

also i was listening to a podcast that explained that mollusks have no central nervous system, feel no pain, and are basically lesser being than plants. Have you considered using them as its still ethical? They are abundant with b12 (2 servings a week cover your b12 requirements) are loaded with protein and minerals.
 
velociraptor44 said:
To be honest its kinda cool. You keep up on your fats, b12, etc?

also i was listening to a podcast that explained that mollusks have no central nervous system, feel no pain, and are basically lesser being than plants. Have you considered using them as its still ethical? They are abundant with b12 (2 servings a week cover your b12 requirements) are loaded with protein and minerals.
Click to expand...

very interesting.
 
velociraptor44 said:
To be honest its kinda cool. You keep up on your fats, b12, etc?

also i was listening to a podcast that explained that mollusks have no central nervous system, feel no pain, and are basically lesser being than plants. Have you considered using them as its still ethical? They are abundant with b12 (2 servings a week cover your b12 requirements) are loaded with protein and minerals.
Click to expand...
"Clams have feelings too"
 
For me the greatest lesson learned is the value of education.
Im not talking about reading blog posts or opinions, which I am not downplaying, but true programmed and directed education.
Without it you are just following the crowd, and hopefully not learning bad habits along the way.
Even basic knowledge of anatomy and physiology, nutrition, exercise selection and form just to name a few, can significantly increase your chances of reaching your goals, whatever they are.

So much of what I call broscience (or maybe a better term is bullshit) exists in these forums.
So called "steroid experts" always make me cringe. Giving advice based on nothing more than what they have read... to obviously other ignorant people... the bottom line is using steroids is a crap shoot, a gamble.... especially at high doses... use at your own risk.
Same goes for nutrition advice... but the health consequences aren't as bad.

To answer Montes other question: the greatest life lesson this hobby has taught me is the power of goal setting (with the possible exception of health)
The skill of learning to make a plan, stick to it and complete it is a foundation for success in anything you do in life.



Ok,
 
One of the biggest things that I have learned in all of my travels is that this is truly not a one-size-fits-all way of life.. it's easy to watch one of your peers incorporate something in his diet or his routine and you say to yourself that looks interesting maybe I should try that, and ultimately it doesn't work out for you. It just goes to redefine that the truth of the matter is that everything is personalized in this way of life.. that's another reason why I prefer to train alone because even my sessions are entirely different with movements and intensity.. working out with a partner just slows me down regardless of what stations we're doing even if we're working alternate stations..

I learned more and more that we are truly by ourselves in this journey, we can take the suggestions and read the experience and all of the vast knowledge handed down by those that have paved the way or who have simply just been there and done that, But ultimately we need to pick and decipher what is best for us and employ that for our own selfish reasons...

Even going out with the brothers after a good session in the gym they want to go to a particular food joint and I'm just not feeling it.. I've never been a sheep and I always dance to the beat of my own drum..

I just wish I could go back to my earlier years and use the same mentality, because many times I did what the guy to the right or to the left was doing because they said so.. now I know what's best for me.. it took an awful lot of time, and I'm still fucking learning..

One thing I can say for certain is I'm glad now that I possess the ability to open my goddamn ears and use both ears that God gave me, and use less of that one mouth that God has given me. Two Is Better Than One..
 
malfeasance said:
If you are a vegan and getting results then I would say you have already put in the work of researching what works, because that is a much tougher road to follow. It can be done, but not half assed.

You should post some threads in the Diet and Nutrition subform about the basics of putting together sufficient protein on a vegan diet. There aren't too many others here (anybody?) who could provide that sort of useful reference information.
Click to expand...
That would be great if you have the time to post some vegan foods and plant protein that is good.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
Bump

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Dac2007 said:
That would be great if you have the time to post some vegan foods and plant protein that is good.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Would be my honor brothers , however I can help vegans in this lifestyle .
 
velociraptor44 said:
To be honest its kinda cool. You keep up on your fats, b12, etc?

also i was listening to a podcast that explained that mollusks have no central nervous system, feel no pain, and are basically lesser being than plants. Have you considered using them as its still ethical? They are abundant with b12 (2 servings a week cover your b12 requirements) are loaded with protein and minerals.
Click to expand...

Nutritional yeast has around 400% b12 in each serving and have absolutely no animal substances at all. :)
 
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