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ART Topic GH 5/7

Montego

Montego

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This week's topic will be GH.

How it's used, favorite protocols, different methods for different goals, how to combat sides, experience with doses, interactions with AAS.

You ask it, we'll adress it!
 
Short and sweet but I will say I have never seen guys with an expensive drug use such high doses that are a complete waste of gear and money.

I will get into this more later but I do not think people really think through that going from 2ius to 4ius is twice the amount....and how little extra effect that extra GH has in many cases. Sure, if you are single digit body fat and need to get those few extra pounds of fat off, but on a cut and starting at 20% body fat?

The majority of the time 10ius a week is plenty with the right amount of T4.

And using GH is no excuse for poor diet and expecting good results, trust me I tried :)
 
is this all GH including like fragments? or CJC. I would like to know if anyone used both and if framents of CJC is just as good as HGH?
 
heckler7 said:
is this all GH including like fragments? or CJC. I would like to know if anyone used both and if framents of CJC is just as good as HGH?
Click to expand...
Let's keep this one on straight gh.

We can have a topic on secretagogs and peptides in the future just mention in it the topic request thread. Or bring it up in the Q&A thread.

Trying to keep these streamline so I can sticky them for future reference.

Peptides could be a whole weeks worth of discussion on its own.
 
-best protocol for 'burning fat' ?

-best protocol for building muscle?

-best protocol for healing purposes?
 
How long should growth be ran ? Is there a length of time that one should run it before taking a break will I build a tolerance or see diminishing returns with it .

How is in the hell can people afford to run say 10 iu a day
 
I don't know a damn thing about GH so here goes nothing.

What is a good age to start for guys getting older? I'm in my early 30's and on TRT.

Are there studies linking it to cancer?

Minimum dosage for a guy looking to put on some size but stay lean? Yes, I know diet will play a big role here.

Oh... I see T4/T3 mentioned a lot.

I don't need it spoon fed to me here but if someone can provide good reading material I'll check it out.

thanks
 
I read some saying GH helps skin issues. I’m in my 40s and in the past 5 years notice my skin is going downhill faster than I would like. Does it really help with keeping your skin younger in appearance or BS? If it helps how and why? Are the effects permanent?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
In for info. I’m looking to start some in the next few months.
 
IML Gear Cream!
frank zazz said:
How long should growth be ran ? Is there a length of time that one should run it before taking a break will I build a tolerance or see diminishing returns with it .

How is in the hell can people afford to run say 10 iu a day
Click to expand...
I have been trying to answer this myself for about a year now.

I have seen my IGF levels drop on same batch of GH over time during long term continuous use.

Is it because there are such things as GH antibodies that build up? Never seen proof but I hear about it.

Is it because my liver has been stressed and IGF drops? Possibly

Low conversion of test to E2 can cause lower IGF levels.

Tren can lower IGF

I have been running GH since November after a three month break so that makes six straight months of GH as of now and I am about to take a month off.

As to guys that run 10ius a day....just not a smart thing to do.
 
Brutus said:
-best protocol for 'burning fat' ?
10ius a week with 50mcg each day for any amount of body fat down to 12% works for me, under 12% body fat 20ius a week with 100mcg T4 is good for 4-6 weeks then back to 10ius a week.
-best protocol for building muscle?
GH by itself is not good for building muscle but adding insulin with GH would be, I know nothing about that as I do not plan on doing that. Good question for Monte.
-best protocol for healing purposes?
I like 10ius a week, very noticeable difference with healing cuts and skin looks better, do not need more than that for general health.
Click to expand...
...
 
Nocode8511 said:
I don't know a damn thing about GH so here goes nothing.

What is a good age to start for guys getting older? I'm in my early 30's and on TRT.

Are there studies linking it to cancer?

Minimum dosage for a guy looking to put on some size but stay lean? Yes, I know diet will play a big role here.

Oh... I see T4/T3 mentioned a lot.

I don't need it spoon fed to me here but if someone can provide good reading material I'll check it out.

thanks
Click to expand...
To answer your question regarding T4 and T3 below is a link on the very subject.

Kind of long thread but bottom line it is best to supplement with T4 only when using GH.

http://www.anabolicsteroidforums.com/showthread.php/80229-Growth-Hormone-and-Thyroid-Supplementation

As to cancer risk, use GH at your discretion. I try not and advocate for something if you are not comfortable.
 
Skip Foursome said:
I have been trying to answer this myself for about a year now.

I have seen my IGF levels drop on same batch of GH over time during long term continuous use.

Is it because there are such things as GH antibodies that build up? Never seen proof but I hear about it.

Is it because my liver has been stressed and IGF drops? Possibly

Low conversion of test to E2 can cause lower IGF levels.

Tren can lower IGF

I have been running GH since November after a three month break so that makes six straight months of GH as of now and I am about to take a month off.

As to guys that run 10ius a day....just not a smart thing to do.
Click to expand...

I have read that Tren can actually raise igf levels.....

Also I have noticed my igf level drop off as well during cycle.... at both of those times I was on orals and my liver values were slightly elevated.... nothing crazy..... so I think you are dead right on that one..... just me guessing as well though

Here is an article about hgh antibodies, they are real

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15000864/

I would like to see what the vets are dosing their t4 at and how often.... bloods would help even better..... I’ve read a standard replacement dose is 100mcg per day for people who actually need the treatment.... most of us don’t.... I would think 100mcg a day would to much for us..... also what are the dangers to our thyroid from hgh uses and t4 use..... does it bounce back like our hpta.... in my experience so far my igf numbers as well as tsh numbers are always back to normal when I take post cycle bloods about 6-8 weeks after my pct.
 
Last edited:
Ryu7 said:
I have read that Tren can actually raise igf levels.....

Also I have noticed my igf level drop off as well during cycle.... at both of those times I was on orals and my liver values were slightly elevated.... nothing crazy..... so I think you are dead right on that one..... just me guessing as well though

Here is an article about hgh antibodies, they are real

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15000864/

I would like to see what the vets are dosing their t4 at and how often.... bloods would help even better..... I’ve read a standard replacement dose is 100mcg per day for people who actually need the treatment.... most of us don’t.... I would think 100mcg a day would to much for us..... also what are the dangers to our thyroid from hgh uses and t4 use..... does it bounce back like our hpta.... in my experience so far my igf numbers as well as tsh numbers are always back to normal when I take post cycle bloods about 6-8 weeks after my pct.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected.

IGF levels are higher on test and nandrolone but not as much on tren. Tren does raise IGF but just not nearly as much.

My simple dose of T4 is stated above and based on lab analysis.

10ius a week of GH=50mcg T4
20ius a week of GH=100mcg

When I run T4 my TSH has gone from baseline of 3.5 to just under 1.0 after four or more months.

Time off and TSH bounces right back. But I am keeping an eye on it.
 
frank zazz said:
How long should growth be ran ? Is there a length of time that one should run it before taking a break will I build a tolerance or see diminishing returns with it .

How is in the hell can people afford to run say 10 iu a day
Click to expand...
Skip Foursome said:
I have been trying to answer this myself for about a year now.

I have seen my IGF levels drop on same batch of GH over time during long term continuous use.

Is it because there are such things as GH antibodies that build up? Never seen proof but I hear about it.

Is it because my liver has been stressed and IGF drops? Possibly

Low conversion of test to E2 can cause lower IGF levels.

Tren can lower IGF

I have been running GH since November after a three month break so that makes six straight months of GH as of now and I am about to take a month off.

As to guys that run 10ius a day....just not a smart thing to do.
Click to expand...
Antibodies are real. I saw an article on this a few weeks ago that I'll try to dig up.

Personally I see igf start to drop around the 20 week mark. It's not a free fall just a slow steady drop.

I start to rotate in MK677 around 18 weeks in and drop the gh at that point. Being MK677 is a secretagog it doesn't seem to be susceptible to the same anti bodies as the exogenous gh. I'll run MK for 6 weeks, after that, it too will lose effectiveness. Then I'll go without for 2-4weeks before starting gh again.

Also, pharm gh doesn't seem to have the antibodies issue. However the amino acid is folded during production is the way its thought to effect differently then Chinese generics. It's just speculation but that's also in the article I read.

I haven't seen any data to support just lowering your dose will reduce the "antibodies". Seems that a full removal is needed.
 
Brutus said:
-best protocol for 'burning fat' ?

-best protocol for building muscle?

-best protocol for healing purposes?
Click to expand...
2-3 iu first thing in the morning followed by fasted cardio is my go to for "fat burning" if your diet is set up accordingly.

6+iu either pre workout or spread over 2-3 injection per day is common for muscle building. If you spread doses, first thing am, mid day and before bed are good times.

2-3iu whenever if you're trying to help an injury. It won't be night and day but, it will be quicker.
 
Bigtoe said:
I read some saying GH helps skin issues. I’m in my 40s and in the past 5 years notice my skin is going downhill faster than I would like. Does it really help with keeping your skin younger in appearance or BS? If it helps how and why? Are the effects permanent?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Yes gh absolutely helps with your skin. Both clarity and elasticity.

It does so by increasing igf which is what it does in all the other uses its applied too.

2iu every day would be a good dose for the anti aging properties.

If, you stop gh, eventually you will lose the tightness and clarity of the skin but it won't be quickly lost. Just a slow decline.
 
Nocode8511 said:
I don't know a damn thing about GH so here goes nothing.

What is a good age to start for guys getting older? I'm in my early 30's and on TRT.

Are there studies linking it to cancer?

Minimum dosage for a guy looking to put on some size but stay lean? Yes, I know diet will play a big role here.

Oh... I see T4/T3 mentioned a lot.

I don't need it spoon fed to me here but if someone can provide good reading material I'll check it out.

thanks
Click to expand...

Depending on your goals, I would say if you're just wanting anti aging effects, wait till your 40's. You should be at a decent number since you are on trt and the exogenous test will help with igf a bit.

Elevated igf levels, which can be caused by gh at higher doses, will speed up cancer growth. If you have a history of cancer in your family, stay away.

3iu min for the adding size and staying lean. At that dose, the gh itself won't do much in terms of lean tissue. You need to be in that 6-12iu range to see that and even 6iu is in the conservative side. At 3iu though, you will have an easier time keeping lean while you increase calories and have improved recovery to aid in building lean tissue.

T4 yes. T3 no.

GH will increase the turnover rate of T4 to t3. One way to check gh legitimacy is to have these panels done in blood work. Your T4 will be low and T3 will be high in most cases.

The supplementing of T3 is often used to increase energy when lethargy becomes an issue. This is right in thinking because if you're tired and T4 is low but T3 is high, it's thought that your t4 isn't there to convert and for whatever reason you need more T3. In fact, even though t4 itself is an inactive hormone and it's sole purpose is to convert to t3, the actual conversion process is what effects energy. Why? Nfi. But it is in fact the case.
 
Skip Foursome said:
I stand corrected.

IGF levels are higher on test and nandrolone but not as much on tren. Tren does raise IGF but just not nearly as much.

My simple dose of T4 is stated above and based on lab analysis.

10ius a week of GH=50mcg T4
20ius a week of GH=100mcg

When I run T4 my TSH has gone from baseline of 3.5 to just under 1.0 after four or more months.

Time off and TSH bounces right back. But I am keeping an eye on it.
Click to expand...

I would have to dig up my blood work from the past to get exact numbers.... but my tsh was always within the norm.... but towards the lower end, I’ve run up to 35 iu a week and had igf numbers at 450+. My tsh would o my slightly drop but my t4 would be low and t3 high.... but my t4 was never near zero.... maybe 10 points lower than baseline?? I would have to look it up.... maybe tommorow it’s late and my sleeping pill is kicking in for the Tren lol
 
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Ryu7 said:
I would have to dig up my blood work from the past to get exact numbers.... but my tsh was always within the norm.... but towards the lower end, I’ve run up to 35 iu a week and had igf numbers at 450+. My tsh would o my slightly drop but my t4 would be low and t3 high.... but my t4 was never near zero.... maybe 10 points lower than baseline?? I would have to look it up.... maybe tommorow it’s late and my sleeping pill is kicking in for the Tren lol
Click to expand...

Let me see what I can dig up. Looks like I need to put together a spreadsheet.
 
Montego1 said:
2-3 iu first thing in the morning followed by fasted cardio is my go to for "fat burning" if your diet is set up accordingly.

6+iu either pre workout or spread over 2-3 injection per day is common for muscle building. If you spread doses, first thing am, mid day and before bed are good times.

2-3iu whenever if you're trying to help an injury. It won't be night and day but, it will be quicker.
Click to expand...

-for the first 2 ,
do you recomend pinning subQ around bellybutton?
intraMuscular?

-for healing purposes, do you pin near the area you are trying to heal?
 
Brutus said:
-for the first 2 ,
do you recomend pinning subQ around bellybutton?
intraMuscular?

-for healing purposes, do you pin near the area you are trying to heal?
Click to expand...
Sub q around the love handles. It's long been thought that local gh shots help reduce fat in that area.... Dunno if it's true but, it's an easy place to pin.

Localized to the problem area yeah. I'm doing this myself and although there isn't a ton of research on this method, some studies do show faster healing in the area.
 
I just started 5iu a day with 50mcg T4 on the advice of my trainer. I got a baseline IGF-1 before I started and I will get another IGF-1 and serum test at 6 weeks. I suppose I could do another at 3-4 months to see if my levels drop. I got enough GH to run 5iu a day for over six months straight.

The only side effect I’ve noticed is that I started being hungrier almost immediately after I got on the GH. Anybody else experience this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
judgmentalist said:
I just started 5iu a day with 50mcg T4 on the advice of my trainer. I got a baseline IGF-1 before I started and I will get another IGF-1 and serum test at 6 weeks. I suppose I could do another at 3-4 months to see if my levels drop. I got enough GH to run 5iu a day for over six months straight.

The only side effect I’ve noticed is that I started being hungrier almost immediately after I got on the GH. Anybody else experience this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
It's pretty common to have a large appetite increase.
 
Montego1 said:
2-3 iu first thing in the morning followed by fasted cardio is my go to for "fat burning" if your diet is set up accordingly.

6+iu either pre workout or spread over 2-3 injection per day is common for muscle building. If you spread doses, first thing am, mid day and before bed are good times.

2-3iu whenever if you're trying to help an injury. It won't be night and day but, it will be quicker.
Click to expand...
You have had good experience building muscle with that dose?

I will be honest I have never ran that much GH but I thought the only way you can gain LBM with GH is using with insulin.
 
I believe intermittent use instead of ed use to be best, 3-5iu 3-5 days a week, so 10-20iu a week total. I like to dose preworkout. I also dose insulin at the same time, novolin R 10iu with the gh about an hour preworkout. I will take 2-4 weeks off occasionally, about every couple months.
 
I started doing mine IM after watching one of Dave's videos. It doesn't seem to make a difference but the idea of something sitting there waiting to disperse doesn't seem logical to me.
 
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