Anabolic Round Table Q&A

Montego · Apr 17, 2018

http://www.anabolicsteroidforums.com/showthread.php?t=80902

Weekly topic is up and ready for discussion!

Please continue to ask questions here while I sort out how to best catalog all the info!

Thanks!

ldog · Apr 17, 2018

2ml in upper glute area, side(love handles) or 3 inches either side of navel.

You can try and pin the ace subq.....I've never done it. Heavyiron mentioned that he tried subq Tren Ace....I would ask him for personal experience. Again, it's ideal for long esters and not a good idea for Prop or a base, I tried 1 time...never again.

Ryu7 said:
You pin 2ml sub-q at one time? What locations? So I can assume if I wanted to add some Tren ace on top of my Tren e without having to increase the volume going im..... I could just say.... pin 1/2ml in the ab maybe on workout days?

Milford King · Apr 17, 2018

Ldog - in your experience the short/no ester compounds sub-q are a no go because of PIP or what other sides? Also, what’s the purpose of sub q injections versus intramuscular? Is it that it keeps blood levels stable over long period of time and maybe allows user to save muscle from developing scar tissue over long term use? Updated : never mind bro I went back and re read your post. It’s all there, my bad brother

ldog · Apr 17, 2018

All good bro. Thanks

Milford King said:
Ldog - in your experience the short/no ester compounds sub-q are a no go because of PIP or what other sides? Also, what’s the purpose of sub q injections versus intramuscular? Is it that it keeps blood levels stable over long period of time and maybe allows user to save muscle from developing scar tissue over long term use? Updated : never mind bro I went back and re read your post. It’s all there, my bad brother

jerseydevil · Apr 17, 2018

Augustine5I said:
Here is a question....

WTF are macros. lol.

I mean, designing a diet around macros. I know a calorie isn't just a calorie and simply "dieting" won't get me where I want. I tried.

I am at 230 and probably 15% bf. At 5'11".

Never had abs and doubting it will ever happen for me. I know my diet isn't "spot on" so not going to bullshit.

Train 4 days a week. Usually jog 20 minutes for 2 miles after each. So doing some cardio.

For me? Getting down to 10% would be a success story.

Montego1 said:
I like this question but, need you to expand on what you wanna know......

Like Monte said, you need to be more specific in what you are asking.

BUT.... if the term 'macros', is not clear to you let me explain..... it's simply short for macronutrients, meaning protein, carbohydrates and fats. Protein has 4 calories per gram, carbohyrates has 4 calories per gram, and fats 9 calories per gram. Alcohol while not a nutrient has 7 calories per gram.

So to your question it depends on what you want..... there are volumes of books written on the subject. But for fun let's utilize macros if you want to try a keto style cut diet for example.

A keto diet is typically 65% fats, 30% protein, and 5% carbs. You need to decide target calories. Let's say 2200 kcals. The ideal daily macros per day would be 1,430 kcals of fat, 660 kcals of protein, and 110 kcals of carbs.

Another popular diet is the Zone Diet..... 40% carbs, 40% protein, 20% fats.

Over the years, a typical bodybuilding diet is 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fats.

What I have gained is all fats are not created equal. Saturated fats are no good. Keep saturated fats below 10%.

jerseydevil · Apr 18, 2018

Correction. I reread my post and realized my reference to the Zone Diet was in error. The macros for that diet are 40% carbs, 30% protein, and 30% fat... oops

Montego · Apr 18, 2018

jerseydevil said:
Correction. I reread my post and realized my reference to the Zone Diet was in error. The macros for that diet are 40% carbs, 30% protein, and 30% fat... oops

Fired

Oldschool · Apr 18, 2018

Good info from JD and to expand on the subject of macros:

Carbohydrates:
The glycemic index rates how fast a carb will raise insulin levels. Glycemic load indicates how much simple sugar is being taken into the blood stream. Both together give you a better picture than GI alone.

Protein.
The quality of protein is indicated by its bioligical value (BV) which simply means how complete it is in all the amino acids, especially the essential amino acids. The higher the BV the more efficient the body can use that protein.

Fats
Avoid fats that are solid at room temperature and concentrate unsaturated fats (oils). (Consider types of fats in protein sources, i.e. animal)

We can discuss these things in more detail including how to calculate body fat, resting metabolic rate and calorie needs. Right now Im very short on time.

Vision · Apr 18, 2018

I got one for everyone, timing of AI's..

Monte brought up a good protocol with his AI timing, 24hrs after injection of whatever compounds (Testosterone) due to metabolization and activation of armostase enzyme.. How does everyone else time their AI's? What works best for you..

Augustine5I · Apr 18, 2018

Montego1 said:
I like this question but, need you to expand on what you wanna know......

I bet @oldschool will slay this one.

Sorry to get back to you so late.

I know what macros are (carbs, fats, protein).

What I was wondering that for me, at 230 pounds and 15% bf...what macros and in what ratios should I be consuming to get down to a lower bodyfat (10%)?

I have heard all kinds of crazy stuff with "macro" diets.

Personally, I can't eat a ton of calories. If I go to like 3k a day I gain weight and not in a good way. So it has always been hard to understand how some members are eating 5K plus calories and not turn into a fatty.

Oldschool · Apr 18, 2018

Lets do the math:

DBW = LBW/ (1-DBF)
So you are currently 230 @15% and desire 10%BF

1. Calculate your current lean body weight.
230 - 34.5 (15% of 230) = 195.5lbs.

2. Calculate target weight with desired BF.
195.5 / 90 (100 - 10% = 90) = 175.95lbs.

So you need to loose 195.5 - 175.95 = 19.5 lbs.

Thats roughly 70000 kcals (@3500 kcals/lb fat)
So picking 500 kcals per day of calorie reduction it would take you 140 days or just over 3 months to get to your goal.
There's no magic to it... no magic ratios or secrets... just reduce your energy expenditure accordingly.

Hope that helped.

Montego · Apr 18, 2018

Augustine5I said:
Sorry to get back to you so late.

I know what macros are (carbs, fats, protein).

What I was wondering that for me, at 230 pounds and 15% bf...what macros and in what ratios should I be consuming to get down to a lower bodyfat (10%)?

I have heard all kinds of crazy stuff with "macro" diets.

Personally, I can't eat a ton of calories. If I go to like 3k a day I gain weight and not in a good way. So it has always been hard to understand how some members are eating 5K plus calories and not turn into a fatty.

Calories and macros are only part.

Timing of those things, imo, plays a bigger role then the types of things you eat to a certain degree.

Take myself for example.

I gain fat easily. Very easily. At the same time I can't do keto because it aggravates my colitis. I'm pretty sensitive to carbs though. Kinda fucked right? I thought so as well.

Where it all change was when I, started to adjust what I was eating at certain times to compensate for those types of food, taking into account my body type and how easily I gained fat and what my training and work schedule was like.

A typical day for me (when I started to progress the most) when I train is, zero carbs until intra /post. Those carbs are 80% quick and 20% slower. That total number was trial and error and actually changes very often. The break down is based on recovery. Fill up quick, then sustain for a bit.

On non training days, I don't have any carbs typically. This gives me a day to help reset insulin sensitivity some since I am so carb sensitive.

That's a basic idea of my nutrition. But that's MY nutrition.

Until you stick to a plan, really buckle down and track progress, try a different plan, track progress, make adjustments to those plans while sticking to them 100%, you'll never get your answer. Be that working with a coach or doing it on your own, it comes down to trial and error.

heavyiron · Apr 18, 2018

Montego1 said:
Calories and macros are only part.

Timing of those things, imo, plays a bigger role then the types of things you eat to a certain degree.

Take myself for example.

I gain fat easily. Very easily. At the same time I can't do keto because it aggravates my colitis. I'm pretty sensitive to carbs though. Kinda fucked right? I thought so as well.

Where it all change was when I, started to adjust what I was eating at certain times to compensate for those types of food, taking into account my body type and how easily I gained fat and what my training and work schedule was like.

A typical day for me (when I started to progress the most) when I train is, zero carbs until intra /post. Those carbs are 80% quick and 20% slower. That total number was trial and error and actually changes very often. The break down is based on recovery. Fill up quick, then sustain for a bit.

On non training days, I don't have any carbs typically. This gives me a day to help reset insulin sensitivity some since I am so carb sensitive.

That's a basic idea of my nutrition. But that's MY nutrition.

Until you stick to a plan, really buckle down and track progress, try a different plan, track progress, make adjustments to those plans while sticking to them 100%, you'll never get your answer. Be that working with a coach or doing it on your own, it comes down to trial and error.

Have you tired a load day with the carb backloading? I have played around with a load on Saturday then sunday keto as well as non training days keto then on training days do the backload immediately post training or intra.

My split is Mon, Tue, Thur, Sat so keto is Sun, Wed, Fri except I do a cheat Wed evening. This setup has basically transformed me in 90 days.

Montego · Apr 18, 2018

heavyiron said:
Have you tired a load day with the carb backloading? I have played around with a load on Saturday then sunday keto as well as non training days keto then on training days do the backload immediately post training or intra.

My split is Mon, Tue, Thur, Sat so keto is Sun, Wed, Fri except I do a cheat Wed evening. This setup has basically transformed me in 90 days.

I did try this actually.

I found I had to reduce my regular carbs post and intra to account for the load day.

Didn't work that well for myself.

ldog · Apr 18, 2018

This is another great question and I think that I may be an outlier in how I handles things.

I really don't like to use AI's if I can avoid it. I personally think that they can be more damaging to us than the actual AAS. Do I use them from time to time...yes but very little. I can control my E2 with Mast,Proviron or Primo. If I do take any AI...its always late afternoon because E2 is higher at night. I've crashed my E2 before with Proviron...no joke. Maybe I'm an anomaly but I really don't ever have E2 issues. I also use subq and IM at the same time and this also helps to manage my E2. I will also spread out my Test dose in three shots. Just my two cents.

Vision said:
I got one for everyone, timing of AI's..

Monte brought up a good protocol with his AI timing, 24hrs after injection of whatever compounds (Testosterone) due to metabolization and activation of armostase enzyme.. How does everyone else time their AI's? What works best for you..

TripleOvertime · Apr 18, 2018

ldog said:
This is another great question and I think that I may be an outlier in how I handles things.

I really don't like to use AI's if I can avoid it. I personally think that they can be more damaging to us than the actual AAS. Do I use them from time to time...yes but very little. I can control my E2 with Mast,Proviron or Primo. If I do take any AI...its always late afternoon because E2 is higher at night. I've crashed my E2 before with Proviron...no joke. Maybe I'm an anomaly but I really don't ever have E2 issues. I also use subq and IM at the same time and this also helps to manage my E2. I will also spread out my Test dose in three shots. Just my two cents.

Hey L, I noticed in the other thread your estradiol is at 10.3. Its that low and you are not using an AI? How do you feel when that low?

ldog · Apr 19, 2018

Yeah....I like it more around 20 to be honest. I feel good but can tell a difference in erection quality.

TripleOvertime said:
Hey L, I noticed in the other thread your estradiol is at 10.3. Its that low and you are not using an AI? How do you feel when that low?

thegame · Apr 19, 2018

Great thread and great peeps to help out, a huge thanks to Monte for setting this all up for us, now here is a quick question for you guys, for those that are DHB and NPP vets, I am wondering are either of these similar to Tren? the reason I ask is this, I have read that DHB is similar to Primo but a lot cheaper, it is my first time running either of these compounds, but lately I have been getting up in the morning with crazy sweats like Tren did to me last year and starting to get vascular like Tren did as well, my guess is that it is the DHB, but like I said everything I have read compared it to Primo and Primo did not do this to me, well anyways that is why I am asking it here.

Thanks guys, really liking this cycle but not sure if I like it better then last years Test, Primo, Tren run, but I am only 4 weeks in so who knows lol, last years took a while to really kick in as well.

need2lift · Apr 19, 2018

ldog said:
This is another great question and I think that I may be an outlier in how I handles things.

I really don't like to use AI's if I can avoid it. I personally think that they can be more damaging to us than the actual AAS. Do I use them from time to time...yes but very little. I can control my E2 with Mast,Proviron or Primo. If I do take any AI...its always late afternoon because E2 is higher at night. I've crashed my E2 before with Proviron...no joke. Maybe I'm an anomaly but I really don't ever have E2 issues. I also use subq and IM at the same time and this also helps to manage my E2. I will also spread out my Test dose in three shots. Just my two cents.

Can you elaborate on how you control your estrogen with those three compounds? When you crashed E2 using Proviron, was it due to a higher dose? I'm a fan of not using anything to control E2 but even at a cruise dose I need something or it creeps up a little high.

Montego · Apr 19, 2018

thegame said:
Great thread and great peeps to help out, a huge thanks to Monte for setting this all up for us, now here is a quick question for you guys, for those that are DHB and NPP vets, I am wondering are either of these similar to Tren? the reason I ask is this, I have read that DHB is similar to Primo but a lot cheaper, it is my first time running either of these compounds, but lately I have been getting up in the morning with crazy sweats like Tren did to me last year and starting to get vascular like Tren did as well, my guess is that it is the DHB, but like I said everything I have read compared it to Primo and Primo did not do this to me, well anyways that is why I am asking it here.

Thanks guys, really liking this cycle but not sure if I like it better then last years Test, Primo, Tren run, but I am only 4 weeks in so who knows lol, last years took a while to really kick in as well.

@REHH

Might be well suited to answer this

Vision · Apr 19, 2018

Not sure if I can ask a question or if it's for members, but here's a topic just for some active and thoughts..

TOPIC: What mainstream nutrition myths need to get debunked once and for all?

The Question: The internet,magazines and social media is full of regurgitated nonsense and some hoopla info on some new nutrition fad, and for whatever reason these just don't seem to go away for that matter, even after sport medicine and nutrition science rips it a new asshole they still stay in circulation, round and round and round they go...Like a fart with massive hang-time!

Let's hear your take on some nutrition myths, diets, fads that should be debunked once and for all!

Let's hear some of your feedback...

REHH · Apr 19, 2018

thegame said:
Great thread and great peeps to help out, a huge thanks to Monte for setting this all up for us, now here is a quick question for you guys, for those that are DHB and NPP vets, I am wondering are either of these similar to Tren? the reason I ask is this, I have read that DHB is similar to Primo but a lot cheaper, it is my first time running either of these compounds, but lately I have been getting up in the morning with crazy sweats like Tren did to me last year and starting to get vascular like Tren did as well, my guess is that it is the DHB, but like I said everything I have read compared it to Primo and Primo did not do this to me, well anyways that is why I am asking it here.

Thanks guys, really liking this cycle but not sure if I like it better then last years Test, Primo, Tren run, but I am only 4 weeks in so who knows lol, last years took a while to really kick in as well.

They're totally different compounds. DHB is considered a DHT class drug like primo, it's not a 19nor like NPP and Tren. DHB is known to cause night sweats similar to tren though. DHB does not aromatize and convert to estrogen similar to tren also. I have heard DHB compared to tren and primo, it shares some similarities with both but is different.

thegame · Apr 19, 2018

REHH said:
They're totally different compounds. DHB is considered a DHT class drug like primo, it's not a 19nor like NPP and Tren. DHB is known to cause night sweats similar to tren though. DHB does not aromatize and convert to estrogen similar to tren also. I have heard DHB compared to tren and primo, it shares some similarities with both but is different.

Thanks, so the sweats are normal then, like Tren it is not all the time, wish I knew what I could do at night to not have the sweats lol.

Thanks again

tren2k14 · Apr 19, 2018

thegame said:
Thanks, so the sweats are normal then, like Tren it is not all the time, wish I knew what I could do at night to not have the sweats lol.

Thanks again

How’s the carb intake around bed?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

thegame · Apr 19, 2018

tren2k14 said:
How’s the carb intake around bed?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

about an hour or so before bed I have 1 cup rice and green beans along with chicken breast, after workout I have 2 cups egg whites and pineapple(got this idea from bc123jm) those are the last things eaten at the end of the day.

TouaregV8 · Apr 19, 2018

Do any of our sponsors carry DHB? I just looked through several and couldn't find any.

Ironman2001 · Apr 19, 2018

TouaregV8 said:
Do any of our sponsors carry DHB? I just looked through several and couldn't find any.

Purple panda did. Haven’t checked their list in awhile though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

thegame · Apr 19, 2018

TouaregV8 said:
Do any of our sponsors carry DHB? I just looked through several and couldn't find any.

I couldn't find any, I got mine from tone.

Ryu7 · Apr 19, 2018

Got another question, assuming the proviron I have is bunk which it appears to be from the blood work...... I have some extra winny on hand..... never used this compound before. If I wanted similar effects on shbg like the proviron would provide what dosage would you recommend? From reason an article it appears .2mg per kg would be enough to lower serum levels by 50-60% or so which for me would be 16 mg a day or so. It’s the only benefit I would be looking to get from it. Here is the article
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2723028/

Vision · Apr 19, 2018

Ryu7 said:
Got another question, assuming the proviron I have is bunk which it appears to be from the blood work...... I have some extra winny on hand..... never used this compound before. If I wanted similar effects on shbg like the proviron would provide what dosage would you recommend? From reason an article it appears .2mg per kg would be enough to lower serum levels by 50-60% or so which for me would be 16 mg a day or so. It’s the only benefit I would be looking to get from it. Here is the article
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2723028/

There really isn't any cookie cutter dosage per say, it will depend on the person, I know for me winny at low dose drastically reduces estro and in fact almost amplifies the effect of test, in fact I begin to brake out even more as it seems to bind more aggressively.. I told people for years about winny and low estro levels and they laughed at me, oh well, their loss for being narrow minded, and kudos to you for thinking outside the box.. My kinda guy!

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