• 👋Hello, please SIGN-UP FOR A FREE account and become a member of our community!
    You will then be able to start threads, post comments and send messages to other members. Thanks!
  • 💪Check Out IronMag Labs Andro Hard® - Powered by R-Andro & Epi-Andro! 💊
  • 👉Check Out Platinum Pharms🌽Corn Hole Sale!🌽

Anabolic Round Table Q&A

IML Gear Cream!
I like var @ 40mg 45 minutes prior to workout and 20mg 8 hrs later. As you know, there are a variety of quality in the UGL world. For example, DQ var was spot on at 40mg while others would need 80mg-100mg. I love Var preworkout...it's makes a big difference in strength during my workouts. I would experiment with different dose timing but definitely try in preworkout. The key is to keep the hormone active in your system. I would also take it with coffee as it increases its potency....in my opinion.
L


Hey Guys I am coming up on running my oral(Anavar) it will be my first time using it, they are 50mg tabs, my question is this, what is a good starting dose? and do you split it throughout the day or take all at once? I have been using google for the last half hour and this looks to be a totally split question, been reading take in AM, then other 1 hour before workout, then the other half says fuckit take all 1 hour before workout and on non workout days all in AM, so fucking confusing lol.

Thanks for any help on this

*edit, by the way currently taking Test C(450mg per week) DHB(450mg per week) NPP(450mg per week) split into 3 pins M/W/F.
 
Thanks ldog, but I workout after work, then bed is approx. 3 hours after I get home, it is Monster var so I hope it is correct dose lol.

I like var @ 40mg 45 minutes prior to workout and 20mg 8 hrs later. As you know, there are a variety of quality in the UGL world. For example, DQ var was spot on at 40mg while others would need 80mg-100mg. I love Var preworkout...it's makes a big difference in strength during my workouts. I would experiment with different dose timing but definitely try in preworkout. The key is to keep the hormone active in your system. I would also take it with coffee as it increases its potency....in my opinion.
L
 
Take a dose when you first wake up and then the rest preworkout(45 Minutes). Is that doable?

Thanks ldog, but I workout after work, then bed is approx. 3 hours after I get home, it is Monster var so I hope it is correct dose lol.
 
Take a dose when you first wake up and then the rest preworkout(45 Minutes). Is that doable?

Yep that is, so you are a fan of splitting.
 
I like var @ 40mg 45 minutes prior to workout and 20mg 8 hrs later. As you know, there are a variety of quality in the UGL world. For example, DQ var was spot on at 40mg while others would need 80mg-100mg. I love Var preworkout...it's makes a big difference in strength during my workouts. I would experiment with different dose timing but definitely try in preworkout. The key is to keep the hormone active in your system. I would also take it with coffee as it increases its potency....in my opinion.
L
I've seen that coffee can in fact reduce the effects/absorption of medications, and some medications can increase the effects of coffee, meaning the medications make the caffeine more active, rather than the coffee activating the bioavailability of the drugs..Example, when my wife takes her T4 (levothyroidoxine) shes is instructed NOT to take the drug with coffee as it will suppress it's absorption, but later, the drug can increase the effects of the coffee once its activated within the system and its cellular groups..

If anything, take Grapefruit juice with the orals.. I don't recommend it as it can be rather toxic, but a little bit may be "ok" to get some more activation..I wouldn't suggest this as a daily protocol!

Increase potency oral steroids ( grapefruit juice increase the bioavailability )

Visions addition to a cheap and cost effect method to help increase the potency and bioavailability of oral steroids.

For sometime now I've known about this practice,and heard amazing results from people utilizing this protocol, with exceptional results.. I to have used this method and seen/felt pronounced effects with the oral I was taking..
This method is also commonly used in the manufacturing process of some pro-hormones, with grapefruit exact added to the binders/fillers!

Grapefruit extract or juice also has a this pronounced effect with medications and YES including steroids!

Grapefruit juice will increase the potency of most oral drugs including steroids here is the article and a blind study

Study-

Ceska Gynekol. 2003 Mar;68(2):117-21.
[Does grapefruit juice increase the bioavailability of orally administered sex steroids?].

[Article in Czech]
Fingerov? H, Oborn? I, Petrov? P, Bud?kov? M, Jezd?nsk? J.
Source

Klinika porodnictv? a gynekologie LF UP v Olomouci.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

To verify if and to which extent the interaction with grapefruit juice can increase bioavailability of orally administered sexual steroids.
DESIGN:

Pilot pharmacokinetics study.
SETTING:

Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology and Institute of Pharmacology, Medical Faculty, Palack? University, Olomouc; Department of Nuclear Medicine, University Hospital, Olomouc.
METHODS:

2 mg of estradiol valerate and 100 mg of micronized progesterone were given to eight healthy postmenopausal volunteers. Blood samples were collected at time 0, 2, 3, 5 and 24 hours after tablets application. The same trial was repeated a week later but tablets were swallowed with 200 ml of grapefruit juice. Serum levels of estradiol and progesterone were measured by RIA. Results were statistically evaluated using the Wilcoxon's nonparametric paired test.
RESULTS:

Though grapefruit juice on average slightly increased serum levels of estradiol (E2) and progesterone, this increase reached statistical significance only for the E2 level 24 hours after application of tablets. The mean area under curve (AUC) of estradiol rose significantly to 117%. The even greater increase in the mean AUC of progesterone (to 125%) was not statistically significant because of marked individual variability of response.
CONCLUSIONS:

Our results suggest that grapefruit juice may increase bioavailability of orally administered estradiol and progesterone. The response varies markedly between individuals. This observation may be of some importance also for users of OC and HRT.


PMID: 12749182 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

__________________________________________________
Article-

James Maskalyk
Editorial Fellow, CMAJ

Grapefruit juice interacts with a number of medications. This unusual discovery was made serendipitously in 1989 during an experiment designed to test the effect of ethanol on a calcium-channel blocker.1 The observed response was later determined to be due to the grapefruit juice delivery vehicle rather than the alcohol. In the past decade, the list of drug interactions with grapefruit juice has expanded to include several classes of medication, precipitating a recent advisory from Health Canada.2

The interaction: As little as 250 mL of grapefruit juice can change the metabolism of some drugs.3 This drug?food interaction occurs because of a common pathway involving a specific isoform of cytochrome P450 ? CYP3A4 ? present in both the liver and the intestinal wall. Studies suggest that grapefruit juice exerts its effect primarily at the level of the intestine.4

After ingestion, a substrate contained in the grapefruit binds to the intestinal isoenzyme, impairing first-pass metabolism directly and causing a sustained decrease in CYP3A4 protein expression.5 Within 4 hours of ingestion, a reduction in the effective CYP3A4 concentration occurs, with effects lasting up to 24 hours.6 The net result is inhibition of drug metabolism in the intestine and increased oral bioavailability. Because of the prolonged response, separating the intake of the drug and the juice does not prevent interference.

Individuals express CYP3A4 in different proportions, those with the highest intestinal concentration being most susceptible to grapefruit juice?drug interactions.5 An effect is seen with the whole fruit as well as its juice, so caution should be exercised with both.7 The precise chemical compound in grapefruit that causes the interaction has not been identified. There is no similar reaction with orange juice, although there is some suspicion that "sour oranges" such as the Seville variety, may have some effect.8 A recent study, however, that tested the known interference of grapefruit juice with cyclosporine showed no similar effect with Seville oranges.9

There is some interest in the potential therapeutic benefit of adding grapefruit juice to a drug regimen to increase oral bioavailability.3 The limitation is the individual variation in patient response. However, if the chemical that causes grapefruit's CYP3A4 inhibition is elucidated, there may be an opportunity to modulate that pathway in a controlled fashion.

What to do: Much of the data obtained on grapefruit juice?drug interactions involved measuring serum drug concentrations in small numbers of healthy volunteers. Because of the limited data and only occasional case reports,10 it is difficult to quantify the clinical significance for individual patients. One may assume that the interaction occurs primarily with oral medicines, and only with those that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, with the consequence being increased oral bioavailability, higher serum drug concentrations and associated adverse effects.

Physicians should review medication lists often, with the goal of warning patients about adverse interactions. A list of medicines with which patients should not consume grapefruit is provided in Table 1.3,11,12 In the case of several medications that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, but for which a clinical effect has not been elucidated or is theoretical, patients should be advised to consume grapefruit cautiously and be monitored for toxicity..

__________________________________________________ ______________________

Grapefruit juice?drug interactions

The novel finding that grapefruit juice can markedly augment oral drug bioavailability was based on an unexpected observation from an interaction study between the dihydropyridine calcium channel antagonist, felodipine, and ethanol in which grapefruit juice was used to mask the taste of the ethanol. Subsequent investigations showed that grapefruit juice acted by reducing presystemic felodipine metabolism through selective post-translational down regulation of cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4) expression in the intestinal wall. Since the duration of effect of grapefruit juice can last 24 h, repeated juice consumption can result in a cumulative increase in felodipine AUC and Cmax. The high variability of the magnitude of effect among individuals appeared dependent upon inherent differences in enteric CYP3A4 protein expression such that individuals with highest baseline CYP3A4 had the highest proportional increase. At least 20 other drugs have been assessed for an interaction with grapefruit juice. Medications with innately low oral bioavailability because of substantial presystemic metabolism mediated by CYP3A4 appear affected by grapefruit juice. Clinically relevant interactions seem likely for most dihydropyridines, terfenadine, saquinavir, cyclosporin, midazolam, triazolam and verapamil and may also occur with lovastatin, cisapride and astemizole. The importance of the interaction appears to be influenced by individual patient susceptibility, type and amount of grapefruit juice and administration-related factors. Although in vitro findings support the flavonoid, naringin, or the furanocoumarin, 6′,7′-dihydroxybergamottin, as being active ingredients, a recent investigation indicated that neither of these substances made a major contribution to grapefruit juice-drug interactions in humans.

Introduction

The opportunity for a food-drug interaction is an everyday occurrence. The interaction can be particularly important when total drug absorption is altered. Recently, a chance observation led to the finding that grapefruit juice can markedly increase the oral bioavailability of a number of medications [1]. This article retraces discovery of this novel interaction and reviews the mechanism of action, summaries both studied and predicted medications for an interaction, discusses possible active ingredient(s) in the juice and considers clinical implications


Discovery

Originally, a study was designed to test for an interaction between ethanol and the dihydropyridine calcium channel antagonist, felodipine [2], an analogue of nifedipine. Grapefruit juice was chosen to mask the taste of the ethanol following an assessment of every juice in a home refrigerator one Saturday evening. White grapefruit juice, particularly double-strength juice (single dilution of frozen concentrate), was the most effective. The combination of a non-intoxicating dose of ethanol and felodipine resulted in lower standing blood pressure and a high frequency of orthostatic hypotension compared with felodipine alone in patients with untreated borderline hypertension [2]. Although plasma felodipine concentrations were not different between treatments, they were several-fold higher than observed in other pharmacokinetic investigations with the same dose of drug. A systematic examination for obvious possible causes, such as incorrect dose or drug assay problems, did not resolve this discrepancy and eventually resulted in a pilot project in a single volunteer to judge the role of the juice. Plasma felodipine concentrations were more than five-fold greater with grapefruit juice compared with water .
bcp0046-0101-f1.jpg


Figure 1
Plasma felodipine concentration-time profile from the pilot study in which the effect of grapefruit juice was evaluated in one of the authors (DGB). Felodipine 5 mg regular tablet was administered with 350 ml double-strength grapefruit juice .

Mechanism

Felodipine disposition and metabolism

Felodipine has been the most extensively studied probe for grapefruit juice?drug interactions. Normally, felodipine is completely absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract following oral administration [3]. However, it undergoes high presystemic (first-pass) metabolism resulting in low absolute bioavailability averaging 15% [3] but ranging from 4% to 36% among individuals [4]. Both the gut wall and the liver appear responsible for presystemic felodipine elimination.
bcp0046-0101-f2.jpg


Figure 2
Sequential presystemic felodipine metabolism by CYP3A4 in apical enterocytes of the small bowel (A) and the hepatocytes of the liver (B) in the absence and presence of grapefruit juice. The percent of unmetabolized felodipine is presented before and after ...


Felodipine has a single primary metabolite, dehydrofelodipine [6], generated by cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4; Figure 3) [7]. Dehydrofelodipine is inactive and oxidized by two secondary pathways. The major secondary metabolite, M3, is also produced by CYP3A4 [8]. Apical enterocytes of the small bowel and hepatocytes of the liver both contain CYP3A4 [9, 10]. The content of CYP3A4 in both tissues ranges at least 10-fold among individuals and appears to be regulated independently of the other [11].
bcp0046-0101-f3.jpg

Pathways of felodipine metabolism.


Grapefruit juice effects

The first report of this interaction revealed that grapefruit juice, but not orange juice, tripled mean plasma felodipine area under the curve (AUC) compared to water in borderline hypertensive patients [12]. Blood pressure reduction, heart rate increase and frequency of vasodilatation-related adverse events were also greater. Grapefruit juice markedly elevated plasma peak felodipine concentration (Cmax
thinsp.gif
) but did not alter systemic felodipine elimination half-life (t1/2
thinsp.gif
) [12]. Since grapefruit juice did not change intravenous felodipine pharmacokinetics [5], it indicates that the interaction with grapefruit juice resulted from inhibition of presystemic drug metabolism.

Grapefruit juice reduced dehydrofelodipine/felodipine AUC ratio and increased absolute dehydrofelodipine AUC [1, 12]. The decrease in the AUC ratio was compatible with inhibition of the primary metabolic pathway. The absolute increase in dehydrofelodipine AUC indicated that a subsequent metabolic pathway might also be inhibited and this was supported by measurements showing that the M3 metabolite AUC was reduced [8]. Thus, grapefruit juice appeared to inhibit CYP3A4, an important isozyme of cytochrome P450 since it oxidizes a broad range of drugs and xenobiotics [13], with predominant and perhaps exclusive action on presystemic drug elimination.
Recently, the effect of grapefruit juice on drug metabolizing enzymes of the small bowel and liver was reported in an in vivoinvestigation in humans [14]. Grapefruit juice consumption for 5 days caused a mean 62% reduction of small bowel enterocyte CYP3A4 and CYP3A5 protein content associated with a greater than 3- and 5-fold increase in felodipine AUC andCmax, respectively. In contrast, liver CYP3A4 activity, as measured by the erythromycin breath test, and colon CYP3A5 protein content were not altered. Also, intestinal CYP2D6 and CYP1A1 protein content were not affected. Although these changes were measured after 5 days of grapefruit juice, preliminary data also showed that small bowel CYP3A4 can be markedly reduced 4 h after a single glass of juice. Consequently, it was concluded that grapefruit juice acted by selectively inhibiting CYP3A isozymes of the small bowel to cause greater felodipine oral bioavailability.
Decreased expression of CYP3A isoforms by grapefruit juice implied that the interaction was not simple competition for substrate metabolism. Since small bowel CYP3A4 mRNA was not changed [14], grapefruit juice likely decreased CYP3A4 protein content by a post-transcriptional mechanism, possibly involving accelerated CYP3A4 degradation through mechanism-based enzyme inhibition. Thus, the return of CYP3A4 activity would require de novo enzyme synthesis which could result in prolonged effect of grapefruit juice.
The duration of activity of grapefruit juice has been studied. In one study, consumption of a single glass (200 ml) of juice at various time intervals before felodipine showed that the extent of increase in felodipine AUC and Cmax was maximal between simultaneous and 4 h previous juice administration with drug [15]. Then, the magnitude of the interaction declined slowly with increasing time interval between grapefruit juice and felodipine administration. The half-life of effect of grapefruit juice was estimated at 12 h. Higher felodipine Cmax was still evident when grapefruit juice was consumed 24 h before felodipine. In another investigation, the effect of routine grapefruit juice consumption was evaluated [14]. One glass (250 ml) of grapefruit juice augmented mean felodipine AUC and Cmax to 267% and 345%, respectively, of that compared with water. Grapefruit juice three times daily with meals for 5 days further increased felodipine AUC and Cmax to 345% and 538% of that compared with water showing a cumulative effect of the juice.
The magnitude of the interaction was highly variable among individuals ranging from no change to six-fold greater plasma felodipine AUC and Cmax with grapefruit juice compared with water under single dose conditions [1, 8, 14, 16]. However, it was reproducible within individuals following repeat testing and thus, dependent on factors inherent to the individual [16]. Grapefruit juice reduced small bowel CYP3A4 content contingent upon pretreatment levels [14]. Individuals with the highest small bowel CYP3A4 content before grapefruit juice had the largest reduction in CYP3A4 and highest increase in felodipineCmax with grapefruit juice. Consequently, individual disparity in the magnitude of interaction with grapefruit juice appears at least partially explained by innate differences in baseline small bowel CYP3A4 protein content.

- - - Updated - - -

Conclusions

A single glass of grapefruit juice has the potential to augment the oral bioavailability and to enhance the beneficial or adverse effects of a broad range of medications, even by juice consumed hours beforehand. Grapefruit juice acts by inhibiting presystemic drug metabolism mediated by CYP3A isoforms in the small bowel. The interaction appears particularly relevant for medications with at least a doubling of plasma drug concentration or with a steep concentration-response relationship or a narrow therapeutic index. Patients that appear particularly susceptible have high small bowel CYP3A4 content, hepatic insufficiency or a pre-existing medical condition which predisposes to enhanced, excessive or abnormal drug effects. Since grocers do not take a drug history, physicians, pharmacists and other health professionals should educate patients about consumption of grapefruit juice with medications.
Isolation of the active ingredient(s) may lead to identification of other foods producing this interaction or to its incorporation into pharmaceutical formulations. Further research is required to understand the interaction better during routine grapefruit juice consumption, at amounts considered safe for administration with drugs and with different patient populations. Nevertheless, the serendipitous observation of increased plasma felodipine concentrations by grapefruit juice has provided fundamental new knowledge to improve pharmacotherapy and to stimulate research.
 
Yes if need be but I don't really like it. I personally don't like high mg orals...just not convenient.y suggestion would be to reach out to Triple Overtime and get his opinion on their Var. I trust his input. The key is to get as much power as you can from the smallest dose...I'm not an advocate for high dose AAS.


Yep that is, so you are a fan of splitting.
 
There is definitely truth to the grapefruit Juice. I did read a study on caffeine and Var and its ability to increase Var's effectiveness. I've tried this many many times and it did seem to be valid....in my experience.


Yep that is, so you are a fan of splitting.

I've seen that coffee can in fact reduce the effects/absorption of medications, and some medications can increase the effects of coffee, meaning the medications make the caffeine more active, rather than the coffee activating the bioavailability of the drugs..Example, when my wife takes her T4 (levothyroidoxine) shes is instructed NOT to take the drug with coffee as it will suppress it's absorption, but later, the drug can increase the effects of the coffee once its activated within the system and its cellular groups..

If anything, take Grapefruit juice with the orals.. I don't recommend it as it can be rather toxic, but a little bit may be "ok" to get some more activation..I wouldn't suggest this as a daily protocol!

Increase potency oral steroids ( grapefruit juice increase the bioavailability )

Visions addition to a cheap and cost effect method to help increase the potency and bioavailability of oral steroids.

For sometime now I've known about this practice,and heard amazing results from people utilizing this protocol, with exceptional results.. I to have used this method and seen/felt pronounced effects with the oral I was taking..
This method is also commonly used in the manufacturing process of some pro-hormones, with grapefruit exact added to the binders/fillers!

Grapefruit extract or juice also has a this pronounced effect with medications and YES including steroids!

Grapefruit juice will increase the potency of most oral drugs including steroids here is the article and a blind study

Study-

Ceska Gynekol. 2003 Mar;68(2):117-21.
[Does grapefruit juice increase the bioavailability of orally administered sex steroids?].

[Article in Czech]
Fingerov? H, Oborn? I, Petrov? P, Bud?kov? M, Jezd?nsk? J.
Source

Klinika porodnictv? a gynekologie LF UP v Olomouci.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

To verify if and to which extent the interaction with grapefruit juice can increase bioavailability of orally administered sexual steroids.
DESIGN:

Pilot pharmacokinetics study.
SETTING:

Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology and Institute of Pharmacology, Medical Faculty, Palack? University, Olomouc; Department of Nuclear Medicine, University Hospital, Olomouc.
METHODS:

2 mg of estradiol valerate and 100 mg of micronized progesterone were given to eight healthy postmenopausal volunteers. Blood samples were collected at time 0, 2, 3, 5 and 24 hours after tablets application. The same trial was repeated a week later but tablets were swallowed with 200 ml of grapefruit juice. Serum levels of estradiol and progesterone were measured by RIA. Results were statistically evaluated using the Wilcoxon's nonparametric paired test.
RESULTS:

Though grapefruit juice on average slightly increased serum levels of estradiol (E2) and progesterone, this increase reached statistical significance only for the E2 level 24 hours after application of tablets. The mean area under curve (AUC) of estradiol rose significantly to 117%. The even greater increase in the mean AUC of progesterone (to 125%) was not statistically significant because of marked individual variability of response.
CONCLUSIONS:

Our results suggest that grapefruit juice may increase bioavailability of orally administered estradiol and progesterone. The response varies markedly between individuals. This observation may be of some importance also for users of OC and HRT.


PMID: 12749182 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

__________________________________________________
Article-

James Maskalyk
Editorial Fellow, CMAJ

Grapefruit juice interacts with a number of medications. This unusual discovery was made serendipitously in 1989 during an experiment designed to test the effect of ethanol on a calcium-channel blocker.1 The observed response was later determined to be due to the grapefruit juice delivery vehicle rather than the alcohol. In the past decade, the list of drug interactions with grapefruit juice has expanded to include several classes of medication, precipitating a recent advisory from Health Canada.2

The interaction: As little as 250 mL of grapefruit juice can change the metabolism of some drugs.3 This drug?food interaction occurs because of a common pathway involving a specific isoform of cytochrome P450 ? CYP3A4 ? present in both the liver and the intestinal wall. Studies suggest that grapefruit juice exerts its effect primarily at the level of the intestine.4

After ingestion, a substrate contained in the grapefruit binds to the intestinal isoenzyme, impairing first-pass metabolism directly and causing a sustained decrease in CYP3A4 protein expression.5 Within 4 hours of ingestion, a reduction in the effective CYP3A4 concentration occurs, with effects lasting up to 24 hours.6 The net result is inhibition of drug metabolism in the intestine and increased oral bioavailability. Because of the prolonged response, separating the intake of the drug and the juice does not prevent interference.

Individuals express CYP3A4 in different proportions, those with the highest intestinal concentration being most susceptible to grapefruit juice?drug interactions.5 An effect is seen with the whole fruit as well as its juice, so caution should be exercised with both.7 The precise chemical compound in grapefruit that causes the interaction has not been identified. There is no similar reaction with orange juice, although there is some suspicion that "sour oranges" such as the Seville variety, may have some effect.8 A recent study, however, that tested the known interference of grapefruit juice with cyclosporine showed no similar effect with Seville oranges.9

There is some interest in the potential therapeutic benefit of adding grapefruit juice to a drug regimen to increase oral bioavailability.3 The limitation is the individual variation in patient response. However, if the chemical that causes grapefruit's CYP3A4 inhibition is elucidated, there may be an opportunity to modulate that pathway in a controlled fashion.

What to do: Much of the data obtained on grapefruit juice?drug interactions involved measuring serum drug concentrations in small numbers of healthy volunteers. Because of the limited data and only occasional case reports,10 it is difficult to quantify the clinical significance for individual patients. One may assume that the interaction occurs primarily with oral medicines, and only with those that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, with the consequence being increased oral bioavailability, higher serum drug concentrations and associated adverse effects.

Physicians should review medication lists often, with the goal of warning patients about adverse interactions. A list of medicines with which patients should not consume grapefruit is provided in Table 1.3,11,12 In the case of several medications that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, but for which a clinical effect has not been elucidated or is theoretical, patients should be advised to consume grapefruit cautiously and be monitored for toxicity..

__________________________________________________ ______________________

Grapefruit juice?drug interactions

The novel finding that grapefruit juice can markedly augment oral drug bioavailability was based on an unexpected observation from an interaction study between the dihydropyridine calcium channel antagonist, felodipine, and ethanol in which grapefruit juice was used to mask the taste of the ethanol. Subsequent investigations showed that grapefruit juice acted by reducing presystemic felodipine metabolism through selective post-translational down regulation of cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4) expression in the intestinal wall. Since the duration of effect of grapefruit juice can last 24 h, repeated juice consumption can result in a cumulative increase in felodipine AUC and Cmax. The high variability of the magnitude of effect among individuals appeared dependent upon inherent differences in enteric CYP3A4 protein expression such that individuals with highest baseline CYP3A4 had the highest proportional increase. At least 20 other drugs have been assessed for an interaction with grapefruit juice. Medications with innately low oral bioavailability because of substantial presystemic metabolism mediated by CYP3A4 appear affected by grapefruit juice. Clinically relevant interactions seem likely for most dihydropyridines, terfenadine, saquinavir, cyclosporin, midazolam, triazolam and verapamil and may also occur with lovastatin, cisapride and astemizole. The importance of the interaction appears to be influenced by individual patient susceptibility, type and amount of grapefruit juice and administration-related factors. Although in vitro findings support the flavonoid, naringin, or the furanocoumarin, 6′,7′-dihydroxybergamottin, as being active ingredients, a recent investigation indicated that neither of these substances made a major contribution to grapefruit juice-drug interactions in humans.

Introduction

The opportunity for a food-drug interaction is an everyday occurrence. The interaction can be particularly important when total drug absorption is altered. Recently, a chance observation led to the finding that grapefruit juice can markedly increase the oral bioavailability of a number of medications [1]. This article retraces discovery of this novel interaction and reviews the mechanism of action, summaries both studied and predicted medications for an interaction, discusses possible active ingredient(s) in the juice and considers clinical implications


Discovery

Originally, a study was designed to test for an interaction between ethanol and the dihydropyridine calcium channel antagonist, felodipine [2], an analogue of nifedipine. Grapefruit juice was chosen to mask the taste of the ethanol following an assessment of every juice in a home refrigerator one Saturday evening. White grapefruit juice, particularly double-strength juice (single dilution of frozen concentrate), was the most effective. The combination of a non-intoxicating dose of ethanol and felodipine resulted in lower standing blood pressure and a high frequency of orthostatic hypotension compared with felodipine alone in patients with untreated borderline hypertension [2]. Although plasma felodipine concentrations were not different between treatments, they were several-fold higher than observed in other pharmacokinetic investigations with the same dose of drug. A systematic examination for obvious possible causes, such as incorrect dose or drug assay problems, did not resolve this discrepancy and eventually resulted in a pilot project in a single volunteer to judge the role of the juice. Plasma felodipine concentrations were more than five-fold greater with grapefruit juice compared with water .
bcp0046-0101-f1.jpg


Figure 1
Plasma felodipine concentration-time profile from the pilot study in which the effect of grapefruit juice was evaluated in one of the authors (DGB). Felodipine 5 mg regular tablet was administered with 350 ml double-strength grapefruit juice .

Mechanism

Felodipine disposition and metabolism

Felodipine has been the most extensively studied probe for grapefruit juice?drug interactions. Normally, felodipine is completely absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract following oral administration [3]. However, it undergoes high presystemic (first-pass) metabolism resulting in low absolute bioavailability averaging 15% [3] but ranging from 4% to 36% among individuals [4]. Both the gut wall and the liver appear responsible for presystemic felodipine elimination.
bcp0046-0101-f2.jpg


Figure 2
Sequential presystemic felodipine metabolism by CYP3A4 in apical enterocytes of the small bowel (A) and the hepatocytes of the liver (B) in the absence and presence of grapefruit juice. The percent of unmetabolized felodipine is presented before and after ...


Felodipine has a single primary metabolite, dehydrofelodipine [6], generated by cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4; Figure 3) [7]. Dehydrofelodipine is inactive and oxidized by two secondary pathways. The major secondary metabolite, M3, is also produced by CYP3A4 [8]. Apical enterocytes of the small bowel and hepatocytes of the liver both contain CYP3A4 [9, 10]. The content of CYP3A4 in both tissues ranges at least 10-fold among individuals and appears to be regulated independently of the other [11].
bcp0046-0101-f3.jpg

Pathways of felodipine metabolism.


Grapefruit juice effects

The first report of this interaction revealed that grapefruit juice, but not orange juice, tripled mean plasma felodipine area under the curve (AUC) compared to water in borderline hypertensive patients [12]. Blood pressure reduction, heart rate increase and frequency of vasodilatation-related adverse events were also greater. Grapefruit juice markedly elevated plasma peak felodipine concentration (Cmax
thinsp.gif
) but did not alter systemic felodipine elimination half-life (t1/2
thinsp.gif
) [12]. Since grapefruit juice did not change intravenous felodipine pharmacokinetics [5], it indicates that the interaction with grapefruit juice resulted from inhibition of presystemic drug metabolism.

Grapefruit juice reduced dehydrofelodipine/felodipine AUC ratio and increased absolute dehydrofelodipine AUC [1, 12]. The decrease in the AUC ratio was compatible with inhibition of the primary metabolic pathway. The absolute increase in dehydrofelodipine AUC indicated that a subsequent metabolic pathway might also be inhibited and this was supported by measurements showing that the M3 metabolite AUC was reduced [8]. Thus, grapefruit juice appeared to inhibit CYP3A4, an important isozyme of cytochrome P450 since it oxidizes a broad range of drugs and xenobiotics [13], with predominant and perhaps exclusive action on presystemic drug elimination.
Recently, the effect of grapefruit juice on drug metabolizing enzymes of the small bowel and liver was reported in an in vivoinvestigation in humans [14]. Grapefruit juice consumption for 5 days caused a mean 62% reduction of small bowel enterocyte CYP3A4 and CYP3A5 protein content associated with a greater than 3- and 5-fold increase in felodipine AUC andCmax, respectively. In contrast, liver CYP3A4 activity, as measured by the erythromycin breath test, and colon CYP3A5 protein content were not altered. Also, intestinal CYP2D6 and CYP1A1 protein content were not affected. Although these changes were measured after 5 days of grapefruit juice, preliminary data also showed that small bowel CYP3A4 can be markedly reduced 4 h after a single glass of juice. Consequently, it was concluded that grapefruit juice acted by selectively inhibiting CYP3A isozymes of the small bowel to cause greater felodipine oral bioavailability.
Decreased expression of CYP3A isoforms by grapefruit juice implied that the interaction was not simple competition for substrate metabolism. Since small bowel CYP3A4 mRNA was not changed [14], grapefruit juice likely decreased CYP3A4 protein content by a post-transcriptional mechanism, possibly involving accelerated CYP3A4 degradation through mechanism-based enzyme inhibition. Thus, the return of CYP3A4 activity would require de novo enzyme synthesis which could result in prolonged effect of grapefruit juice.
The duration of activity of grapefruit juice has been studied. In one study, consumption of a single glass (200 ml) of juice at various time intervals before felodipine showed that the extent of increase in felodipine AUC and Cmax was maximal between simultaneous and 4 h previous juice administration with drug [15]. Then, the magnitude of the interaction declined slowly with increasing time interval between grapefruit juice and felodipine administration. The half-life of effect of grapefruit juice was estimated at 12 h. Higher felodipine Cmax was still evident when grapefruit juice was consumed 24 h before felodipine. In another investigation, the effect of routine grapefruit juice consumption was evaluated [14]. One glass (250 ml) of grapefruit juice augmented mean felodipine AUC and Cmax to 267% and 345%, respectively, of that compared with water. Grapefruit juice three times daily with meals for 5 days further increased felodipine AUC and Cmax to 345% and 538% of that compared with water showing a cumulative effect of the juice.
The magnitude of the interaction was highly variable among individuals ranging from no change to six-fold greater plasma felodipine AUC and Cmax with grapefruit juice compared with water under single dose conditions [1, 8, 14, 16]. However, it was reproducible within individuals following repeat testing and thus, dependent on factors inherent to the individual [16]. Grapefruit juice reduced small bowel CYP3A4 content contingent upon pretreatment levels [14]. Individuals with the highest small bowel CYP3A4 content before grapefruit juice had the largest reduction in CYP3A4 and highest increase in felodipineCmax with grapefruit juice. Consequently, individual disparity in the magnitude of interaction with grapefruit juice appears at least partially explained by innate differences in baseline small bowel CYP3A4 protein content.

- - - Updated - - -

Conclusions

A single glass of grapefruit juice has the potential to augment the oral bioavailability and to enhance the beneficial or adverse effects of a broad range of medications, even by juice consumed hours beforehand. Grapefruit juice acts by inhibiting presystemic drug metabolism mediated by CYP3A isoforms in the small bowel. The interaction appears particularly relevant for medications with at least a doubling of plasma drug concentration or with a steep concentration-response relationship or a narrow therapeutic index. Patients that appear particularly susceptible have high small bowel CYP3A4 content, hepatic insufficiency or a pre-existing medical condition which predisposes to enhanced, excessive or abnormal drug effects. Since grocers do not take a drug history, physicians, pharmacists and other health professionals should educate patients about consumption of grapefruit juice with medications.
Isolation of the active ingredient(s) may lead to identification of other foods producing this interaction or to its incorporation into pharmaceutical formulations. Further research is required to understand the interaction better during routine grapefruit juice consumption, at amounts considered safe for administration with drugs and with different patient populations. Nevertheless, the serendipitous observation of increased plasma felodipine concentrations by grapefruit juice has provided fundamental new knowledge to improve pharmacotherapy and to stimulate research.
 
Get Shredded!
Thanks a lot guys! great info here, hopefully Triple Overtime will pop in and share his views, so how much grapefruit juice we talking lol? 1 cup or more? because that shit is not sweet at all, sour shit if I remember right.
 
I believe this is it. Read under the conclusion. Am I misunderstanding the statement beginning with "We postulate".
It's tough to tell, its a study nonetheless and I read this a while back, but never took it literally, due to the fact that the amounts of caffeine used surpassed any reasonable amount that people would use in one sitting.. 300mg is a ton, now pre-workout possesses anywhere from 125mg - 400, now imagine using those amounts multiple times a day? The sudden spike, followed by the decline after the caffeine clears is what troubles me (hormonal spikes and dips/crashes), now does the same happen with grapefruit extract? I'm almost certain, however I've seen conflicting reports on caffeine and grapefruit extracts and its effects on specific enzyme, activating some enzymes while causing a reduction with other enzymes, in fact grapefruit extract shown a lot of activation, but also cancellation and reductions (FYI - It's been said that grapefruit extract can increase estrogen levels, now combined that with exogenous AAS that are prone/likely to aromatise i.e Test,Dbol, looks like trouble to me, var is excluded of course) ..Now does the half-life with caffeine cause the decrease of serum levels of Oxandrolone? It's half-life will vary with users, but most common is said to be 5-6hrs (for myself it effects me much longer, to the point it hinders sleep), there's so many factors to consider with no real hard evidence aside from this one study and the chart showing the rapid spike then followed by a decrease drastically some time later..Now with grapefruit extract I'd be more concerned with toxicity because its interplay and mechanism of action is much different with the CYP3A4 enzyme..Now what I find rather interesting is the combination of the both, as some studies suggest that grapefruit juice decreases the clearance of caffeine, which could by "theory" increase the effects and adverse effects of caffeine, now would the combination of the both in "SMALL" amounts prolong the effects of Oxandrolone with a synergistic effect between one an other? Only way to find out of by way of urine test or bloods..But again, this is all theoretically speaking and most studies made nothing more but "suggestions" per your statement "we postulate"..Assuming!!!!
..

On paper it would appear that adding grapefruit juice/extract some time later after consumption of caffeine and oxy would possibly prolong its effects without a drastic drop..I wish, I wish there was more studies out there, but at the end of the day in the AAS dark-side we are; our very own clinical studies, our very own accounts and anecdote reports "Bro-science at it's finest"..
 
Last edited:
Good info here. The best way is trial and error. I do know this that consuming grapefruit juice alongside C-17 orals is best used with a delicate balance as this could really increase the strain on our livers.


QUOTE=Vision;1392746]It's tough to tell, its a study nonetheless and I read this a while back, but never took it literally, due to the fact that the amounts of caffeine used surpassed any reasonable amount that people would use in one sitting.. 300mg is a ton, now pre-workout possesses anywhere from 125mg - 400, now imagine using those amounts multiple times a day? The sudden spike, followed by the decline after the caffeine clears is what troubles me (hormonal spikes and dips/crashes), now does the same happen with grapefruit extract? I'm almost certain, however I've seen conflicting reports on caffeine and grapefruit extracts and its effects on specific enzyme, activating some enzymes while causing a reduction with other enzymes, in fact grapefruit extract shown a lot of activation, but also cancellation and reductions (FYI - It's been said that grapefruit extract can increase estrogen levels, now combined that with exogenous AAS that are prone/likely to aromatise i.e Test,Dbol, looks like trouble to me, var is excluded of course) ..Now does the half-life with caffeine cause the decrease of serum levels of Oxandrolone? It's half-life will vary with users, but most common is said to be 5-6hrs (for myself it effects me much longer, to the point it hinders sleep), there's so many factors to consider with no real hard evidence aside from this one study and the chart showing the rapid spike then followed by a decrease drastically some time later..Now with grapefruit extract I'd be more concerned with toxicity because its interplay and mechanism of action is much different with the CYP3A4 enzyme..Now what I find rather interesting is the combination of the both, as some studies suggest that grapefruit juice decreases the clearance of caffeine, which could by "theory" increase the effects and adverse effects of caffeine, now would the combination of the both in "SMALL" amounts prolong the effects of Oxandrolone with a synergistic effect between one an other? Only way to find out of by way of urine test or bloods..But again, this is all theoretically speaking and most studies made nothing more but "suggestions" per your statement "we postulate"..Assuming!!!!
..

On paper it would appear that adding grapefruit juice/extract some time later after consumption of caffeine and oxy would possibly prolong its effects without a drastic drop..I wish, I wish there was more studies out there, but at the end of the day in the AAS dark-side we are; our very own clinical studies, our very own accounts and anecdote reports "Bro-science at it's finest"..[/QUOTE]
 
Thoughts on having 3 solid meals and 3 liquid as long as you're hitting macros? I'm tired of eating every 3 hours.
 
Thoughts on having 3 solid meals and 3 liquid as long as you're hitting macros? I'm tired of eating every 3 hours.
tell me about it...I have to mash my food.. you think I'm joking? wanna see a pic? I use a masher on my chicken/broc and rice.. this way I can shovel in and wash down with water..no joke jabroni
 
Thoughts on having 3 solid meals and 3 liquid as long as you're hitting macros? I'm tired of eating every 3 hours.
Solid food would always be my choice but, I can understand your point.

If I was going to supplement more shakes, I would still do solid food but blend them. Chicken shakes are pretty damn good and you can do those ahead of time.

I would just keep powders to a minimum personally.

Palumbo does 3 solid meals and 3 shakes with a lot of his clients. I guess it can work
 
Solid food would always be my choice but, I can understand your point.

If I was going to supplement more shakes, I would still do solid food but blend them. Chicken shakes are pretty damn good and you can do those ahead of time.

I would just keep powders to a minimum personally.

Palumbo does 3 solid meals and 3 shakes with a lot of his clients. I guess it can work
Ill toss in oats, and PNB.. but like he said, man, my gut will actually ache and and hurt at times.. Im ready to get scoped, I keep thinking about it.. because at times Im just doubled over.. it seems that the same mundane food is like a poison to me anymore, it hurts and I get ill.. ill from eggs,chicken,beef,rice,oats? I have no answers..
 
IML Gear Cream!
Ill toss in oats, and PNB.. but like he said, man, my gut will actually ache and and hurt at times.. Im ready to get scoped, I keep thinking about it.. because at times Im just doubled over.. it seems that the same mundane food is like a poison to me anymore, it hurts and I get ill.. ill from eggs,chicken,beef,rice,oats? I have no answers..
You've probably developed food allergies from eating the same sources consistently.

I would swap out all your macro sources for a month or two. Add in pre/probiotics if you're not already using them. Add in 5-10g of glutamine a day if you're not already using it. Add in fermented foods two to three times a day.

Check back in a month
 
You've probably developed food allergies from eating the same sources consistently.

I would swap out all your macro sources for a month or two. Add in pre/probiotics if you're not already using them. Add in 5-10g of glutamine a day if you're not already using it. Add in fermented foods two to three times a day.

Check back in a month

That actually sounds like a very good idea and I do have the probiotics but I have to be honest I am not consistent with them and I only take them if I have acne and I have to take my antibiotics but other than that I am not taking them so it's fair to say I don't include them whatsoever.. I was taking glutamine but a good buddy of mine really jump down my throat about it really stressing to the point that it's already inside of my BCAAs... But I'm going to give this a shot I'll try both of these like you said..

Should I incorporate more low-fat Greek yogurt at least two or three times a day you think?

And I'm going to agree on the food allergy I just needed to hear that from someone else that's well-rounded.. I seriously get very sick from chicken.. even with all the rice that I eat it would still give me the fucking runs.. my body is just completely rejecting it entirely.. :(
 
That actually sounds like a very good idea and I do have the probiotics but I have to be honest I am not consistent with them and I only take them if I have acne and I have to take my antibiotics but other than that I am not taking them so it's fair to say I don't include them whatsoever.. I was taking glutamine but a good buddy of mine really jump down my throat about it really stressing to the point that it's already inside of my BCAAs... But I'm going to give this a shot I'll try both of these like you said..

Should I incorporate more low-fat Greek yogurt at least two or three times a day you think?

And I'm going to agree on the food allergy I just needed to hear that from someone else that's well-rounded.. I seriously get very sick from chicken.. even with all the rice that I eat it would still give me the fucking runs.. my body is just completely rejecting it entirely.. :(

I would choose foods like pickles and sourkraut to add in if you're already eating yogurt. They're cheap and easy to find.

Kiefer and Kombucha and kimchi are great but, they're a bit more expensive.

Glutamine with a fiber supplement or high fiber meal is how I would suggest that. Glutamine and fiber combined are amazing for gut health and glutamine can actually heal the lining of the digestive tract. I can attest to this since I have had only one flare up of my colitis since I started using it this way.
 
I would choose foods like pickles and sourkraut to add in if you're already eating yogurt. They're cheap and easy to find.

Kiefer and Kombucha and kimchi are great but, they're a bit more expensive.

Glutamine with a fiber supplement or high fiber meal is how I would suggest that. Glutamine and fiber combined are amazing for gut health and glutamine can actually heal the lining of the digestive tract. I can attest to this since I have had only one flare up of my colitis since I started using it this way.

I was just showing the wife this and she agreed 110% with you, be she walked away laughing and said I can sleep on the sofa..I didn't get her joke, then it hit me...dude, is this gonna give me killer gas??????????
 
tell me about it...I have to mash my food.. you think I'm joking? wanna see a pic? I use a masher on my chicken/broc and rice.. this way I can shovel in and wash down with water..no joke jabroni
Never tried the mash method, but many times I have thrown chicken, rice, and water in a blender and gulped that down.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk
 
Kiefer and Kombucha and kimchi are great but, they're a bit more expensive.

Just started brewing my own kombucha about a month ago. Fairly easy and so much cheaper than store bought.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk
 
Ill toss in oats, and PNB.. but like he said, man, my gut will actually ache and and hurt at times.. Im ready to get scoped, I keep thinking about it.. because at times Im just doubled over.. it seems that the same mundane food is like a poison to me anymore, it hurts and I get ill.. ill from eggs,chicken,beef,rice,oats? I have no answers..

Try betaine hcl could be low stomach acid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I was just showing the wife this and she agreed 110% with you, be she walked away laughing and said I can sleep on the sofa..I didn't get her joke, then it hit me...dude, is this gonna give me killer gas??????????
Lol saurkraut probably won't give you bad gas.... I mean it's cabbage but since it went through fermentation I would think that aspect would be clear.

Body odor may take a dive though.
 
I'm 26 yrs old my first goal is to compete in a men's classics physique competition and I'm wanting to to start my first test cycle I was just hoping for some advice on tmrw first cycle, training and competing
 
Back
Top