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Treasure trove for rookie

D

Don Johnson

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Get Shredded!
I have been on an off TRT for years now. Always wondering what I have been doing wrong this entire time. Close friend put me on this site and man I am not disapointed. My trt has been basic over the past few years. Cant wait to expand my abilities. I have tried cyp then enanthate due to breakouts (didnt change anything) so back to cyp, hcg and b-12 with a blocker to help with the bloat that never ever works......Im on the basics of basics spending alot of money every 10 weeks.....can anyone recommend anything other than diet water and the blocker to help curb the bloat.......I was told to mix with tren, but thats not the easiest at the moment......and dont forget the cardio......any advice avaiable to get me going this round would be great....I may be doing this whole thing wrong as well....who knows
 
Getting bloodwork? Without blood tests, everything is just guesswork. Guesswork leads to feeling like shit and having shitty results, most of the time.
 
test dosage ?
AI,("blocker" what drug and ho much you taking?
I would drop the hcg rig away. def holds water
 
justdan said:
Getting bloodwork? Without blood tests, everything is just guesswork. Guesswork leads to feeling like shit and having shitty results, most of the time.
Click to expand...

I got the blood work. I have to go back in 6 months for a new panel. Cholesterol sucks ass but runs in the family. My test came in at 173. What other numbers should I be looking at?


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bc123jm said:
test dosage ?
AI,("blocker" what drug and ho much you taking?
I would drop the hcg rig away. def holds water
Click to expand...

It's the standard 1 injection once a week I believe it's 200. I've been tossed around from doctor to doctor. I went to a endo to find out what was wrong and he wanted to put me on clomid then I went to a urologist who was giving me 300 a week and he aged out and retired so I just went back to the old company and they are shipping me some stuff by Friday. I'm just looking for some direction.


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Testosterone, total
Testosterone, free
Estradiol (sensitive assay)
CBC (or at least hematocrit)

All along with the reference ranges. "173" could be low, crazy low, normal... dunno without the lab reference range. For example, the ref range for the lab I go to is 250 - 1100 ng/dl. The previous lab I went to was totally different (something like 150-800). It depends what they're measuring against.
 
There's also a TRT sub-forum here...

And a pretty damn helpful TRT forum over at another site (don't know if links are OK to post here, though it's on t-nation... ksman is a user who's been invaluable to many)
 
justdan said:
Testosterone, total
Testosterone, free
Estradiol (sensitive assay)
CBC (or at least hematocrit)

All along with the reference ranges. "173" could be low, crazy low, normal... dunno without the lab reference range. For example, the ref range for the lab I go to is 250 - 1100 ng/dl. The previous lab I went to was totally different (something like 150-800). It depends what they're measuring against.
Click to expand...





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348-1197 is the referee interval. I don't see the Any of that other stuff. I'll look on a different lab.


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Thanks. I'll look around. I'm just getting my feet wet here.


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Wait... Total test was 173 while on cyp injections? That would have to be UGL gear... What lab was it from?
 
Man milk thistle is ways good to have on hand for liver function

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GarlicChicken said:
Wait... Total test was 173 while on cyp injections? That would have to be UGL gear... What lab was it from?
Click to expand...

from what I could make of it he was getting it from the dr or a compounding pharm . but then went off and now back on 200mg a week from the dr.
but as usual the dr don't know shit and he is bloating up
 
Exactly. I'm gonna focus extra hard on the carbs sodium and water intake this go around. See if u can't curb the problem. Aside from that I got no idea what else I can do.


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Don Johnson said:
348-1197 is the referee interval. I don't see the Any of that other stuff. I'll look on a different lab.
Click to expand...

That's LabCorp's reference interval. Quest says "250-1100". Kaiser has some other numbers. They're all different because they've been pulled out of different asses and are covered in different shit.

For healthy adult men, I think a more reasonable range would be something like 500-1,300. And I'd still be suspicious of anything in the 500's. My range may yet be too conservative. We're slowly correcting for a long term testosterone-hostile medical establishment that skews low on these numbers, including in their statistics very unhealthy people, current and former opiate addicts, other sorts of hypogonadics, and not accounting for over a century of exposure of all of us to endocrine disruptors in our environment that tend to be entirely estrogenic: phthalates, BPA's, pesticides, herbicides, etc. To be disqualified from their stat pools you typically have to be female, diabetic, or dead.

As you can tell, this is a complex subject and there are other threads here that dive into it with more detail. But, basically, don't trust those "reference" ranges... they're shit.
 
The reference range is more than just a random range of numbers that one particular lab thinks is right*... it has much more to do with the methods and instruments used to assay the samples.
350 from LabCorp does not equal 350 from Quest does not equal 350 from Kaiser, etc. If you pulled three samples at the same time and sent to three labs, you'd get three different numbers along with their reference ranges. I regularly get bloods from two of those listed.

I'm no lab expert, but the chick I work with is.

The reference ranges kinda are shit, though, with their upper and lower limits having too much to do with averaging results from "healthy" individuals without bias towards age, etc.
 
chocolatemalt said:
That's LabCorp's reference interval. Quest says "250-1100". Kaiser has some other numbers. They're all different because they've been pulled out of different asses and are covered in different shit.

For healthy adult men, I think a more reasonable range would be something like 500-1,300. And I'd still be suspicious of anything in the 500's. My range may yet be too conservative. We're slowly correcting for a long term testosterone-hostile medical establishment that skews low on these numbers, including in their statistics very unhealthy people, current and former opiate addicts, other sorts of hypogonadics, and not accounting for over a century of exposure of all of us to endocrine disruptors in our environment that tend to be entirely estrogenic: phthalates, BPA's, pesticides, herbicides, etc. To be disqualified from their stat pools you typically have to be female, diabetic, or dead.

As you can tell, this is a complex subject and there are other threads here that dive into it with more detail. But, basically, don't trust those "reference" ranges... they're shit.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Still learning the ropes


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Get Shredded!
bc123jm said:
from what I could make of it he was getting it from the dr or a compounding pharm . but then went off and now back on 200mg a week from the dr.
but as usual the dr don't know shit and he is bloating up
Click to expand...

Exactly it


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chocolatemalt said:
That's LabCorp's reference interval. Quest says "250-1100". Kaiser has some other numbers. They're all different because they've been pulled out of different asses and are covered in different shit.

For healthy adult men, I think a more reasonable range would be something like 500-1,300. And I'd still be suspicious of anything in the 500's. My range may yet be too conservative. We're slowly correcting for a long term testosterone-hostile medical establishment that skews low on these numbers, including in their statistics very unhealthy people, current and former opiate addicts, other sorts of hypogonadics, and not accounting for over a century of exposure of all of us to endocrine disruptors in our environment that tend to be entirely estrogenic: phthalates, BPA's, pesticides, herbicides, etc. To be disqualified from their stat pools you typically have to be female, diabetic, or dead.

As you can tell, this is a complex subject and there are other threads here that dive into it with more detail. But, basically, don't trust those "reference" ranges... they're shit.
Click to expand...
Yup, unfortunately that's what Dr's go by smh

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