Bulking and Cutting same time test e deca tren

Hey guys I know this has been talked to death. The reason why I think some people have major differences in opinionS is due to what they have experienced on cycle, so please keep an open mind while posting no need to force your opinions if you've never cut and bulked at the same time I don't see the point in you responding to my post. Any way first cycle researched for about 4 years on and of trained for about 2 years, 24 years old 16% body fat 5,11 foot 184lb

Okay so Bulking and Cutting same time Test e deca & tren

Dbol for first 3-4 weeks

Test e 12 weeks

Deca 12 weeks

And tren starting from week 4 to 12

Look there's so much controversy about cutting and bulking at the same time which leads to only one conclusion ether it only works with cardio and clean bulk about 500 to 1000 caloric surplus or some people just react diffrent to the gear from others or a combination of both.

I have spoke to a few people who say they lose weight on tren or deca cycles so it is a possibility what I'm looking for are the people who have noticed this what there diet was and there training plan possibly dosage as well. This is a first time cycle I have no intention of reaching my genetic potential before starting the cycle reason being I would be happy of one or two cycles which would get me to about genetic potential I have no want or desire to be ginormous lol.

Thank you for your time reading this and I truely hope this post gets some good answers if it does I will post results on another post. I have also read a few post about how people have went from 17% to 11% it's 100% possible I just want to find out if theres an exact way to do so or if there just lucky, if this does not work for me I will extend my cycle a further 8 weeks to cut straight after bulk then pct. Cheers

you should go start a thread in the new guy section and tell us about yourself age/ht/wt/cycle history etc. then do some more research and hopefully you will realize how bad this idea is... gl

When you say "cut and bulked at the same time" I'm assuming you mean a body recomposition, right? (Bulking while simultaneously losing body fat?)

You can't cut and gain. If your cutting your in a calorie deficit and won't add mass. We use steroids during this phase to preserve muscle mass.
If you have alot of bf then yes it is possible to burn fat off with a clean diet and gain muscle but you not going to cut into the single digits while gaining mass

With your stats being what they are then here's my answer. Yes, you can add mass and drop bf at the same time. I wouldn't increase the cals that much over maintenance tho. Start out at like 250 over. Increase from there and keep up on cardio!
As far as your cycle goes, run the test 2 weeks longer than the decca. Ppl say they run 2 19nors at once but I haven't. And on your first cycle you don't need to run more than just test. Kick off with dbol if you want. Do some more research man. Got pct planned out?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Not possible. To build muscle you need excess calories. To lose body fat you need a caloric deficit. Also if you were trying to bilk you don't want to do cardio, or very very little.

As mentioned above, you may be thinking a recomp. Losing fat while maintaining current muscle and making slow muscle gains of just a few pounds.

BOBCAT said:

Not possible.

Click to expand...

It's absolutely possible. He is 184 pounds and 15% body fat. He will gain muscle like crazy for 12 weeks, and when he sheds the water after the cycle, he will be much, much leaner at a heavier bodyweight than when he started. Look at his stats.

With all of that having been said, OP, this appears to be your first cycle, and I would not use Deca or tren. I would also learn about diet (and no, you do not know anything about diet with stats like that). You have some research to do.

I was waiting all dam night to here u guys chime in. Again a wealth of info!!! Much appreciated!!!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

If a guy with Fat on his body starts to gain muscle, the muscle will accelerate the speed of fat loss. The more muscle the faster the fat loss.

Bust your ass in the gym. Eat the proper amounts of food, with the high amount of Protein to repair your muscle. And then Rest and let your body recover. The cycle, will help you repair, so you can work harder in the gym. So you make sure you tear that muscle apart in the gym, go home and put the food to and rest to work. Cardio Monday - Friday for 30 to 45 minutes will also help burn fat, but i only suggest a steady pace, with walking.

With 1 cycle you can go from 20% body fat to 10% body fat. But you have to spend the time in the gym and give it your all with the weights each day. Then Eat Clean foods, high protein. And when it comes time for bed, your body will rest and repair all night, with the aid of the Anabolics.

The Food and Weights are what will depend on if you cut that fat off your body.

OfficerFarva said:

Negative and negged.

Click to expand...

How am I wrong about this ? Just curious on your reasoning, not trying to debate

Just what I thought

I guess you guys idea of cutting is different than mine.

Bro i understand where you are coming from. You just want to reach your natural limit, but you want to do it through a cycle to make it easier and maybe a little faster then it would take naturally.

Here is the thing though. When people say Tren burns fat, it is and i 100% know this because i have tested this myself, Tren is very strong, it helps you make some great lean gains but you burn fat on tren because if you are eating the right food and gaining muscle from the Trenbolone, you are putting on muscle so quick your bodys metabolism will speed up and the muscle you are gaining will help you burn fat. The Tren builds the muscle, the muscle in return burns the fat off your body. But Testosterone will do the same thing for you, with a lot less side effects and it is a lot less harsh on your body.

So all you need to take is in all honesty, this is not me telling you what to do. But all you need is the Testosterone. The Testosterone will help build your muscle mass, and in return the muscle you gain just from the Testosterone and diet and workout is going to be the exact same results even if you run the Test, Tren and Deca. Gain the muscle and repair the muscle with Testosterone. The Tren could potentially cause you a lot of sides, and then your going to have to stop taking it, the Deca and Tren together will cause sides for sure. The Testosterone will be a nice smooth easy ride. It will repair you and help you grow muscle, the muscle will burn the fat.

Save the Deca and Tren for when you cut down from 16% to 10%. When you get to the 10% and you see how nice your body looks, and your tight and you have all the info you need then. You will no what you were eating to cut fat, how much you were eating, how much protein you were taking in. So that way when you want to go lean bulk and maybe add that tren in, you will know how many calories and protein you will need to make bigger gains.

And then after that run pct, and maintain your body through a clean diet and Workout routine. If you do it this way, you will keep a lot of your gains, your body will adjust to it, and it will not take that long.

The Steroids are just there to help the recovery, so if all you need is that Testosterone and trust me that is all you need. Why start with all 3, when just the Test is going to deliver the goods.

I have put all this to use, i have done this for years, and compete. I have no reason to lie to you or try to make you not do anything that you want to. It is just 100% the truth and you will be happy. You are just looking to reach your natural limit and be done. So just try putting what i wrote to use.

Diet
Strong workout routine
Rest
Testosterone - if you feel you are going to cycle. Then this is all you need. Save the Tren and Deca for after you reach your natural limit and i have a feeling that then you are going to say fuck that i want more. But if that happens come back here and check out other cycles, before jumping on that Tren.

Callum91 said:

Hey guys I know this has been talked to death. The reason why I think some people have major differences in opinionS is due to what they have experienced on cycle, so please keep an open mind while posting no need to force your opinions if you've never cut and bulked at the same time I don't see the point in you responding to my post. Any way first cycle researched for about 4 years on and of trained for about 2 years, 24 years old 16% body fat 5,11 foot 184lb

Okay so Bulking and Cutting same time Test e deca & tren

Dbol for first 3-4 weeks

Test e 12 weeks

Deca 12 weeks

And tren starting from week 4 to 12

Look there's so much controversy about cutting and bulking at the same time which leads to only one conclusion ether it only works with cardio and clean bulk about 500 to 1000 caloric surplus or some people just react diffrent to the gear from others or a combination of both.

I have spoke to a few people who say they lose weight on tren or deca cycles so it is a possibility what I'm looking for are the people who have noticed this what there diet was and there training plan possibly dosage as well. This is a first time cycle I have no intention of reaching my genetic potential before starting the cycle reason being I would be happy of one or two cycles which would get me to about genetic potential I have no want or desire to be ginormous lol.

Thank you for your time reading this and I truly hope this post gets some good answers if it does I will post results on another post. I have also read a few post about how people have went from 17% to 11% it's 100% possible I just want to find out if there's an exact way to do so or if there just lucky, if this does not work for me I will extend my cycle a further 8 weeks to cut straight after bulk then pct. Cheers

Click to expand...

^ this is 100% CORRECT!! Best advise I have read in a long time for a person considering cycling.

Tgrady wow thank you so much for your time and effort in answering my question. I understand what your saying I'm going to follow your advice to the T okay so I got alpha pharma test e and deca not bought tren yet also have Dbol ready I'll leave deca and tren out of it though, Guys all I've ever done for the past year and a half is cut I was pretty fat before lost about 4-5 stone in total.

I was starting to get sick of it though you no just on a constant cut gets draining yo. my original plan was to get to 12% then cycle as that's what is advised, I have no real desire to go below 10% so if your telling me the Dbol and test e alone will aid me in this then I will stick to what you say.

Okay so dosage I was thinking 500mg of test e as it seems to be what's recommended for beginner cycles this will be split Monday 250 and Thursday 250 what's your recommendation for the Dbol 30-40mg?

Also is 5 days training enough working out? 2 body parts with compound excersises per gym session with rest days in between or both rest days on weekend? Also not to work same body part out in the same week yeh?

and most important the diet if I'm intending to go from about 17% bf to about 10-12 should I eat about 1000 over maintenance? I intend to try and keep it to a clean bulk with no alchohol.

Yeh tren and deca where purely for cutting reasons in my mind as I came across a recomp post or two stating you won't lose weight on cycle unless your on tren and at best you'll only put on about 5 lbs due to calories being low which seems a waste for a first time cycle where I will get the most gains I will ever make. Hope that made sense just what I researched.

Food for make my diet is chicken stake eggs protein shakes sweet potato and brown pasta and ketchup, I don't have a lot of variety when it comes to clean diet food lol but should do the trick. My maintenace according to my bmr and activity is about 2600 supposedly. So I'm thinking about 3500ish calories clean as possible?

Also hcg during cycle and eq to combat estrogen issues or wait till cycle finished to start pct is clomid best pct for me to take since I'm just doing Dbol and test e now.

FYI I'm going to run cycle for 10-12 weeks I'm seeing a lot of post saying gains stop after about 10 weeks so 12 is a waste of time that could be spent on pct any thoughts?

Once again thank you tgrady and also to everyone else who shared experiences with me.

Or arimidex 1mg per day for 14 weeks with about 2-3 litres of water to keep estrogen and bloat away anything else to combat water retention or estrogen or will the above do?

Also what about a supper low dose of deca just for muscle hardness won't they be a little soft if I only go on the Dbol and test? Say 100 to 150mg purely for muscle hardness?

Cheers guys

EQ to control estrogen? Deca for hardness?

I smell a troll

CYCLE.
Testosterone Enanthate week 1-12 500mg a week. Split between 2 injections a week. Each injection is 250mg of Testosterone.

You will start pct meds 2 weeks after your last Injection. I suggest you buy HCG and Nolvadex. Some people like Nolvadex and Clomid. I like to stick to mainly HCG for pct. But i will add in clomid or nolvadex to. But i love the HCG.

For estrogen it depends on how Anabolics effect your body. you may or may not need it. But keep Letro on hand and Arimidex is fine but to me letro is best. For pct, i like Nolvadex and HCG.

Do no add in the Deca for muscle Hardness. Test E at 500mg, will help you gain muscle which will make your muscle harder. The amount of food and the protein in it and water you drink will keep your muscle hardness also. When people consume a high amount of protein alone, you will hear them say there muscles are harder, so if they get hard with just protein and weights, Testosterone added will help for that to. Water is very important also.

Callum91 said:

Or arimidex 1mg per day for 14 weeks with about 2-3 litres of water to keep estrogen and bloat away anything else to combat water retention or estrogen or will the above do?

Also what about a supper low dose of deca just for muscle hardness won't they be a little soft if I only go on the Dbol and test? Say 100 to 150mg purely for muscle hardness?

Cheers guys

Click to expand...

I see thanks man I take it my first reply was a little to long with to many questions in it sorry if that was the case but is 1000 over maintenace enough for the goal of putting on the muscle and cutting down to about 10-12% body fat?

Deca was recommended by a few friends that cycled on and of that's where the idear came from for muscle hardness

Also I seen you didn't comment good it bad on Dbol so I take it that's fine to use as a kickstart. Thanks

Missed that part, it is no problem bro.

The Deca there is no need for it. You are better off saving it for your next cycle. Or for another time.
The same with Dbol. Save the Dbol and Deca. Do this first cycle Test E only, to get the results that you have listed in your post. The Testosterone is all you need.

Because i do not see photos of you, it is hard for me to tell you how many calories over you should eat. But what i can do is send you a diet. The key is the Protein in the foods.
You want to try and get in 30 to 50g of proten in each meal. You said you where like 180lbs. So i would want you to get at least 200grams of protein each day. Me personally i would aim for 250grams of protein.

You are going to have to do this work, because like i said i can not see what your body looks like. I have to picture it in my mind. But if you are 16% body fat and are trying to drop 6% of fat and gain some muscle at the same time correct?
You are going to want to eat clean foods but big foods. You need to find out what you will maintain with, what you will gain with. But what you want and are trying to do is gain muscle and burn the Fat.

So this is something you can try to follow, and see how it works it should help build muscle and in the process of building the muscle you should burn fat.

Cardio will be first thing in the morning steady walking for 30 to 45 Minutes.

Meal 1 - 4 whole eggs, and 8 whites. This will be over 50grams of protein to start off your day. You can add a slice of bread for carbs.

Meal 2. 4ounce Skinless Chicken Breast. The chicken breast is around 30 to 35g protein. 1/2 cup Brown rice, and a handful of Broccoli.

Meal 3 - Isolate Protein Shake with 1 cup Egg whites. 1 Scoop of most isolate protein powders are over 20g of protein, along with a cup of egg whites is 27g of protein

So right there 3 meals that will get you over 125 grams of Protein. You will not get fat if you are busting your ass with weights. 125g protein is not the exact math of the protein this is just examples, but if i remember correctly it is close little more little less. But the point is your over 100gram of protein with 3 easy meals. 2 Meals, and 1 protein shake meal.

Your last meal should also be another Protein shake Meal. So same as Meal 3.

Your other meal can include, canned tuna, Haddock, Salmon, healthy fishes. Chicken, Steak, You should put a meal plan together and post that and see what others have to say, i will also check it out for you.

If you post photos it will be easier to help you out.

Just in case i confused you. The protein powder and the egg whites mixed on meal 3 would combine for around 50g of protein.

So Dbol would be a conter productive thing to do if I'm trying to get cut I thought it would be good to kick start everything of since test e has a longer Easter, should I by prop instead then since it's got much shorter Easter or stick with the test e? Cheers yes I will take some photos for sure I'll try and get them up tonight or latest tomorrow
Got to say I'm disappointed with not using the Dbol as the quick size gains sounded quite appealing but if you say so I'll do it.

I guess what I'm saying is could I still run the Dbol and get the same effects as what your talking about once the warmer retention has died down if it. Cheers

You can take the dbol if you really have your heart set on it. But it will bring on water weight. but once your drop it the water weight will go away and yes you will keep muscle from it. 30 to 50mg a day is fine. I split them up through out the day, but there are plenty of guys that like take dbol all at once. Another thing you have to find out if you like doing or not. Weeks 1-4 you would run the dianabol. Every day for 28 days.

When i take steroids, i do gain water weight, i only run Anti e or anything if my body becomes sensitive, or to out of control. But I drink a lot of water, up to 3 gallons a day and that keeps my water weight down. I will on personally run AI if i feel my nipples are becoming sensitive or if i was becoming to bloated. Other then that i do not touch them. That is a personal thing, that is why i suggest keeping them on hand just in case you run into problems.

It is going to come down to the diet you have every day.

If you eat the right clean foods, with the high protein you can gain muscle and cut fat. But if you are only doing 1 or the other then it is different in the options you choose.

I would stick with Test e for what you are trying to achieve with your body.

I'm on alot of different boards and have been on some since 2002 and I don't think I have ever seen someone as helpful and as detailed in their responses then you are.

tgrady said:

Missed that part, it is no problem bro.

The Deca there is no need for it. You are better off saving it for your next cycle. Or for another time.
The same with Dbol. Save the Dbol and Deca. Do this first cycle Test E only, to get the results that you have listed in your post. The Testosterone is all you need.

Because i do not see photos of you, it is hard for me to tell you how many calories over you should eat. But what i can do is send you a diet. The key is the Protein in the foods.
You want to try and get in 30 to 50g of proten in each meal. You said you where like 180lbs. So i would want you to get at least 200grams of protein each day. Me personally i would aim for 250grams of protein.

You are going to have to do this work, because like i said i can not see what your body looks like. I have to picture it in my mind. But if you are 16% body fat and are trying to drop 6% of fat and gain some muscle at the same time correct?
You are going to want to eat clean foods but big foods. You need to find out what you will maintain with, what you will gain with. But what you want and are trying to do is gain muscle and burn the Fat.

So this is something you can try to follow, and see how it works it should help build muscle and in the process of building the muscle you should burn fat.

Cardio will be first thing in the morning steady walking for 30 to 45 Minutes.

Meal 1 - 4 whole eggs, and 8 whites. This will be over 50grams of protein to start off your day. You can add a slice of bread for carbs.

Meal 2. 4ounce Skinless Chicken Breast. The chicken breast is around 30 to 35g protein. 1/2 cup Brown rice, and a handful of Broccoli.

Meal 3 - Isolate Protein Shake with 1 cup Egg whites. 1 Scoop of most isolate protein powders are over 20g of protein, along with a cup of egg whites is 27g of protein

So right there 3 meals that will get you over 125 grams of Protein. You will not get fat if you are busting your ass with weights. 125g protein is not the exact math of the protein this is just examples, but if i remember correctly it is close little more little less. But the point is your over 100gram of protein with 3 easy meals. 2 Meals, and 1 protein shake meal.

Your last meal should also be another Protein shake Meal. So same as Meal 3.

Your other meal can include, canned tuna, Haddock, Salmon, healthy fishes. Chicken, Steak, You should put a meal plan together and post that and see what others have to say, i will also check it out for you.

If you post photos it will be easier to help you out.

Click to expand...

Thank you bro. I try my best haha.

PTPT said:

I'm on alot of different boards and have been on some since 2002 and I don't think I have ever seen someone as helpful and as detailed in their responses then you are.

Click to expand...

Yeh man once again thank you very much for your time tgrady I could tell how fortunate I was once I read your first detailed response plus not a single person has disagreed with you on a thing so must be very accurate.

I'm gonna take some photos and upload them tomorrow for you to take a look like I said before I will be doing a full post on the before middle and after so you guys can keep me in line.

Yeh man once again thank you very much for your time tgrady I could tell how fortunate I was once I read your first detailed response plus not a single person has disagreed with you on a thing so must be very accurate.

I'm gonna take some photos and upload them tomorrow for you to take a look like I said before I will be doing a full post on the before middle and after so you guys can keep me in line.