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ART Topic - Most Underrated/Overrated 5/1

Montego

Montego

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Get Shredded!
This week's Q&A will focus on what is the most Underrated and Overrated drugs to use.

AAS / gh/ whatever you think.

Thank you Ldog for the idea!

Members please ask about hormones or PED's you are interested in hearing our veterans opinions on.
 
Montego1 said:
This week's Q&A will focus on what is the most Underrated and Overrated drugs to use.

AAS / gh/ whatever you think.

Thank you Ldog for the idea!

Members please ask about hormones or PED's you are interested in hearing our veterans opinions on.
Click to expand...

BP-157 or whatever and that other “healing” one - can’t remember it atm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
judgmentalist said:
BP-157 or whatever and that other “healing” one - can’t remember it atm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Gdi. I've been digging into a ton of info on this over the past week since my injury.

I've yet to use it but, the research and real world application seem amazing.

Also, since this peptide is found in the gut, it makes it bioavailble so you could in theory just take it orally.

It also shows amazing results to those gi issues such as colitis, which I have.

Has been shown to heal not only muscle and ligament tissue but bone as well.

Only compound I know of thats shown to actually help reattach ligaments tore from the bone due to the above.

It Increases gh receptor sites in the area signaling healing is the main mechanism for its ability to work.

So much more but, it is a very interesting peptide and I will use some soon.
 
Monte, how are you planning on dosing/administering the bp-157? IM/subq/etc at injury site?
 
GH.. I have for a long time felt its overrated especially when looking at the cost to benefit.. What are your thoughts on this? I have also seen guys swear by it(mostly older guys).

I have limited experience with it.
 
What's your thoughts on Bold Cyp?!?!?

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
 
What is the difference between tren hex and ace. I mean real difference feelings, sides, outputs bla bla.

500mg test e and test p which will give more aromatization and why also would you use any ai while on test p.
 
I haven't really been giving my thoughts in these threads because I like to let our vets address them but, I will be sharing my opinions on this one.

Will be getting all these after my Dr visit.
 
Multislacking said:
Monte, how are you planning on dosing/administering the bp-157? IM/subq/etc at injury site?
Click to expand...
250mcg sub q 2x a day in the area of the injury.

Based off conversion from the rodent studies, 400mcg is right about the effective dose for healing on a 100kg male.

Bpc157 is systemic but it does show some localized healing properties as well.
 
judgmentalist said:
BP-157 or whatever and that other “healing” one - can’t remember it atm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

BPC157 has both systemic and localized effects, tb500 more just systemic. Many like to use BPC157 close to the injury. For the best healing benefits both should be used simultaneously. I've used both, it's very hard to quantify the results but I would use both again.
 
Benchpress9 said:
Tren Hex the best tren compound ? I've found low doses, 125mg. gives a nice balance of results with minimum sides. What does the vets say about this compound?
Click to expand...

I don't think its worth it, raws costs 3x tren A,E, can be faked with tren E by raw suppliers and no way of knowing. Delivers less mg into the bloodstream than A or E. There's no plus side at all to using it over A or E.
 
Gluthalione injection

I've had chronically high liver values for years, AST, ALT; Not super high, usually 50-100. I've run all the liver support supplements out there with no results......until today. For first time my values are in the 20's, thanks to Glutathione injections. My dosage has been 200-600mg/wk for a month before blood draw last Thursday, got results today.
 
REHH said:
Gluthalione injection

I've had chronically high liver values for years, AST, ALT; Not super high, usually 50-100. I've run all the liver support supplements out there with no results......until today. For first time my values are in the 20's, thanks to Glutathione injections. My dosage has been 200-600wk for a month before blood draw last Thursday, got results today.
Click to expand...

Where did you get it? I know IA offered it a while ago.
 
Benchpress9 said:
Tren Hex the best tren compound ? I've found low doses, 125mg. gives a nice balance of results with minimum sides. What does the vets say about this compound?
Click to expand...
xeaven said:
What is the difference between tren hex and ace. I mean real difference feelings, sides, outputs bla bla.

500mg test e and test p which will give more aromatization and why also would you use any ai while on test p.
Click to expand...
Hex is amazing if you get real Hex like @REHH mentioned.

It's a very long ester but, the effects are pretty fast considering that. I would say faster then enanthate but not as fast as ace obviously.

Sides are typically much less given the ester as well. The sweats and irritability seem to be lesser with most people.

Compared to ace, the results won't be as drastic but, you will stay fuller with hex in my experience. Ace and enanthate flattens me out bad but with hex, I stay very full even while the body fat starts to drop off.

I would say hex is my favorite tren ester by far even though it is more expensive. To that point though, you don't need as much as you would the other two esters. 210mg a week of real hex is PLENTY and I have never seen the need to use more then that.
 
xeaven said:
What is the difference between tren hex and ace. I mean real difference feelings, sides, outputs bla bla.

500mg test e and test p which will give more aromatization and why also would you use any ai while on test p.
Click to expand...
500mg of prop will aromitase by far more then 500mg of enanthate.

The overall milligram of actual testosterone in test p compared to prop will have something to do with that but, the rate at which it is in and out is the biggest factor.

I can't say how much ai you should use cause that's just a guess but, if I were running that dose of enanthate I would prefer aromasin. That dose of prop, adex.

Adex is a bit stronger and would help if you do get those big spikes in estrogen from the faster acting prop ester but, it's not as forgiving on your e2 and can have a negative effect on lipids.

Aromasin is more forgiving on regulating e2 but not as well suited for those who aromitase more due to doses, age or just predisposition. It won't effect lipids much if any though.

Bloodwork will be the factor to make your decision. You don't want to crush your estrogen since that's needed to grow but, you don't wanna grow a nice set of boobs either.

I like mine around 25-35 on cycle.
 
My two favorite compounds are Masteron and Primo. My two cents:
Mast-It's such a versatile compound and has numerous benefits. For example, I can run Mast at a decent dose(400-600mg per week) alongside my other compounds and totally eliminate my need for an AI. It's very underrated as an anti-estrogen....I know...I know...it's not an official AI but for me...it does the trick. Another benefit is its ability to jack up my free Test. When I run Mast alongside my other compounds, it just makes everything click on all cyclinders. When I run Mast, I can tell it's working hard to lean me out. My muscles and overall body composition just feels lean,tight and mean. It also gives me great strength increases and some decent aggression. Another factor is its ability to just make my feel positive and more of an alpha male...who doesn't want that? Finally, it's a relatively safe compound.

As for Primo....it has many of the same characteristics as Mast minus the anti estrogen and aggression.....at least in my case. Primo sculpts my body like nothing else. I feel really good on it and it does have the ability to boost your immune system. I especially like Primo Acetate 45 minutes pre workout. Like Mast, Primo makes everything better in a cycle....especially free Test. It's also a very safe compound. Again, this is just one mans opinion. Give them a try💪
 
This is a solid point. I've heard this from many guys but your points confirm it.

QUOTE=REHH;1389082]I don't think its worth it, raws costs 3x tren A,E, can be faked with tren E by raw suppliers and no way of knowing. Delivers less mg into the bloodstream than A or E. There's no plus side at all to using it over A or E.[/QUOTE]
 
Get Shredded!
Most overrated = HGH - Not enough bang for the buck in my opinion. If you're looking for an increase in lean muscle, while decreasing body fat there's plenty of compounds that can do this while maintaining a clean diet. The sides are really what I don't like about hgh. Even at a dose of 3.3iu/day I found the lethargy and brain fog very hard to deal with. I got to the point where I was nodding off at my desk at work. No bueno. The water retention was quite bad for me as well. My face looked like a jelly donut and my fingers looked like stuffed sausages. When I increased my dose to 4-5iu/day I found the wrist and elbow pain unbearable, which made training miserable.

Most underrated = Proviron - You should consider adding proviron to every cycle as it's increase in free test is worth it's weight in gold. Free test is what builds muscle. I also found that proviron helped to improve my sense of well being, which really helps on a tren cycle, and although it's not considered an AI it does help to control e2.
The benefits of proviron FAR outweigh the sides, which in my case there were no negative sides when used up to 100mg/day.
 
So my opinion of underrated and Overrated.

I think the most underrated AAS is test. It's usually an afterthought for most.

"Yeah I'm gonna run 500mg test e with, tren, Deca, EQ, dbol, gh, clen, T3 and insulin."

That's what it feels like most cycles turn into these days. Very rarely do you see anyone besides a beginner run just straight test. Truth is, and I'm guilty of this myself, if we were to run a straight test cycle with a little higher dose instead of adding in 2-3 other compounds, the overall MG would come down, sides would probably be less and I'm sure almost equal progress would be made. Feel better, train better. Simple.

And don't get me started on the low test high other things. That's just silly to me and I laugh too myself every time I see it.

Most Overrated -

Orals. Any ORAL besides Proviron. Unless you're about to step on stage or the platform, I see zero reason to run orals besides when you have REALLY hit a plateu in growth and food and training are to the extreme.

Let's be honest. When have you ever ran say anadrol, finished your cycle and kept that 15lbs? Maybe your first cycle you kept 5? MAYBE.

Typically it goes like this.

"Two weeks into the anadrol and I'm up ten lbs! Don't see much water if any. Very full and tight. Strength is through the roof! Pumps are crazy!"

Yep. You're a water balloon. You haven't gained much of any lean tissue. It's water. What happens when you stop the anadrol? Slowly shrink back down.

Not only are the gains from orals mostly from intra cellular water, they do stress the body. Back pumps, liver function, mood and so on. Like I said earlier, feel good train good.

Let's stop with the orals. And if we're not gonna stop, let's just use them pre workout and get some actual benefit instead of mind fucking ourselves into progress we haven't really made.
 
Well said my friend. I agree.


Montego1 said:
So my opinion of underrated and Overrated.

I think the most underrated AAS is test. It's usually an afterthought for most.

"Yeah I'm gonna run 500mg test e with, tren, Deca, EQ, dbol, gh, clen, T3 and insulin."

That's what it feels like most cycles turn into these days. Very rarely do you see anyone besides a beginner run just straight test. Truth is, and I'm guilty of this myself, if we were to run a straight test cycle with a little higher dose instead of adding in 2-3 other compounds, the overall MG would come down, sides would probably be less and I'm sure almost equal progress would be made. Feel better, train better. Simple.

And don't get me started on the low test high other things. That's just silly to me and I laugh too myself every time I see it.

Most Overrated -

Orals. Any ORAL besides Proviron. Unless you're about to step on stage or the platform, I see zero reason to run orals besides when you have REALLY hit a plateu in growth and food and training are to the extreme.

Let's be honest. When have you ever ran say anadrol, finished your cycle and kept that 15lbs? Maybe your first cycle you kept 5? MAYBE.

Typically it goes like this.

"Two weeks into the anadrol and I'm up ten lbs! Don't see much water if any. Very full and tight. Strength is through the roof! Pumps are crazy!"

Yep. You're a water balloon. You haven't gained much of any lean tissue. It's water. What happens when you stop the anadrol? Slowly shrink back down.

Not only are the gains from orals mostly from intra cellular water, they do stress the body. Back pumps, liver function, mood and so on. Like I said earlier, feel good train good.

Let's stop with the orals. And if we're not gonna stop, let's just use them pre workout and get some actual benefit instead of mind fucking ourselves into progress we haven't really made.
Click to expand...
 
My thoughts..

I agree HGH has a low bang for the buck ratio, yet at 62 it does seem to keep me lean and help with skin smoothness. Muscle mass? Not so much.

Proviron works well to free up bound testosterone, REHH and I compared results in a thread, no doubt it works

Sorry tren hex (Parabolon) being superior is a myth.... esters are a delivery system. The real numbers per ml are as follows:

Trenbolone Base: 100mg
Trenbolone Acetate: 83mg
Trenbolone Enanthate: 68mg
Trenbolone Hexahydrobenzyl: 65mg

No wonder I always liked tren ace, and tren base the best

Orals? I have tried dbol, M1t, anadrol, halo, MSten, I'm sure others I have forgot....

But even now when it comes to spring/summer cut I really like anavar and or winstrol. The bitch is they both lower HDL big time, other then that no sides.

Underrated? Trestolone ace
 
Montego1 said:
I think the most underrated AAS is test. It's usually an afterthought for most.

"Yeah I'm gonna run 500mg test e with, tren, Deca, EQ, dbol, gh, clen, T3 and insulin."

That's what it feels like most cycles turn into these days. Very rarely do you see anyone besides a beginner run just straight test. Truth is, and I'm guilty of this myself, if we were to run a straight test cycle with a little higher dose instead of adding in 2-3 other compounds, the overall MG would come down, sides would probably be less and I'm sure almost equal progress would be made. Feel better, train better. Simple.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of truth to this, Monte, and I am also guilty of it. I remember a PM exchange between myself and the Green Goddess a few years ago when she used to post on here. She said 2g/wk of test (only) to take my physique to the next level. I tried it up to 1.5g, along with other compounds, and couldn't handle the sides, but I never tried it by itself. Now you have my wheels turning...
 
TouaregV8 said:
There's a lot of truth to this, Monte, and I am also guilty of it. I remember a PM exchange between myself and the Green Goddess a few years ago when she used to post on here. She said 2g/wk of test (only) to take my physique to the next level. I tried it up to 1.5g, along with other compounds, and couldn't handle the sides, but I never tried it by itself. Now you have my wheels turning...
Click to expand...

Only thing a high test cycle needs with it is proviron and aromasin...
 
I might come off as being indifferent to other opinions here but that is not my point.

I think my opinion varies from others for a few reasons:

Age
Goals
Genetics

All of three play a big role in what drugs a user finds useful and an absolute necessary item to use when reaching or maintaining goals. I do this because I like being active, I enjoy going to the gym and challenging myself physically, the discipline of proper nutrition and the science behind the drugs. You have to fire on all cylinders when doing this properly and can get very technical.

As to my goals, they are nowhere near many guys on here, I am not a bodybuilder or even a physique guy, this is a hobby for me, nothing more

If I had only two drug scenarios to pick from:

Option 1
Run 250mg of test and 10ius of GH per week with the amount of AI and T4 necessary

OR

Option 2
Run all the test and AAS ancillaries I want with no limitations but GH is excluded

I would pick Option 1 all day long.

First I would start with our bodies are made to run on Test and GH, it is what our bodys are made to consume. Granted exogenous hormones do present some issues compared endogenous hormones but with very little downside.

UPSIDE TO USING TEST
Without test you cannot build muscle, and because I was low-t I lived this and I can tell you I withered for years not knowing I had this condition.
DOWNSIDE TO USING TEST
The downside for me cruising on test is possibly higher Hematocrit, Hemoglobin and RBC levels. This problem can be solved with test proper dose and regular blood donation.


UPSIDE USING GROWTH HORMONE
Without GH fat lipolysis (fat used as energy) does not occur. As someone that was in his 50s and now 60 I can tell you GH is a game changer and mandatory.
DOWNSIDE TO USING GROWTH HORMONE
The downside to running GH is lower TSH levels when using T4 and IGF levels can diminish using GH over the long term. If you take time on and time off like blasting and cruising AAS this solves this problem.


OVERRATED
As to overrated Monte is spot on with his opinion on orals and that has been my opinion for some time.

Note, I still do stupid shit so I do not want to come off high and mighty over other guys using orals. Just last month I got a sample of Halo just to try it out. I like to experiment with various AAS, but on a whole, orals are overrated.

UNDERRATED
Mast-P is becoming one of my favorites. Mast plus test is like peas and carrots on a cut. If you are looking for a good hardening agent I think Mast is a great choice over Anavar and Proviron with less side effects those two orals have. Anavar though considered mild, kills my lipids and proviron is just a little easier on me then Anavar but I do not use anymore.

I agree with JerseyDevil on Trest-A. It is methylated but not as nearly toxic as Sdrol, Dbol, Adrol and is really good at filling me out, and little goes a long ways. It is a wet compound so you will hold water while on, but for me the water came off and in a week or so and I was still much fuller looking after a 6 week run which plenty enough time to get what you need from this short ester
 
Well said bro. Mast is good stuff.


Skip Foursome said:
I might come off as being indifferent to other opinions here but that is not my point.

I think my opinion varies from others for a few reasons:

Age
Goals
Genetics

All of three play a big role in what drugs a user finds useful and an absolute necessary item to use when reaching or maintaining goals. I do this because I like being active, I enjoy going to the gym and challenging myself physically, the discipline of proper nutrition and the science behind the drugs. You have to fire on all cylinders when doing this properly and can get very technical.

As to my goals, they are nowhere near many guys on here, I am not a bodybuilder or even a physique guy, this is a hobby for me, nothing more

If I had only two drug scenarios to pick from:

Option 1
Run 250mg of test and 10ius of GH per week with the amount of AI and T4 necessary

OR

Option 2
Run all the test and AAS ancillaries I want with no limitations but GH is excluded

I would pick Option 1 all day long.

First I would start with our bodies are made to run on Test and GH, it is what our bodys are made to consume. Granted exogenous hormones do present some issues compared endogenous hormones but with very little downside.

UPSIDE TO USING TEST
Without test you cannot build muscle, and because I was low-t I lived this and I can tell you I withered for years not knowing I had this condition.
DOWNSIDE TO USING TEST
The downside for me cruising on test is possibly higher Hematocrit, Hemoglobin and RBC levels. This problem can be solved with test proper dose and regular blood donation.


UPSIDE USING GROWTH HORMONE
Without GH fat lipolysis (fat used as energy) does not occur. As someone that was in his 50s and now 60 I can tell you GH is a game changer and mandatory.
DOWNSIDE TO USING GROWTH HORMONE
The downside to running GH is lower TSH levels when using T4 and IGF levels can diminish using GH over the long term. If you take time on and time off like blasting and cruising AAS this solves this problem.


OVERRATED
As to overrated Monte is spot on with his opinion on orals and that has been my opinion for some time.

Note, I still do stupid shit so I do not want to come off high and mighty over other guys using orals. Just last month I got a sample of Halo just to try it out. I like to experiment with various AAS, but on a whole, orals are overrated.

UNDERRATED
Mast-P is becoming one of my favorites. Mast plus test is like peas and carrots on a cut. If you are looking for a good hardening agent I think Mast is a great choice over Anavar and Proviron with less side effects those two orals have. Anavar though considered mild, kills my lipids and proviron is just a little easier on me then Anavar but I do not use anymore.

I agree with JerseyDevil on Trest-A. It is methylated but not as nearly toxic as Sdrol, Dbol, Adrol and is really good at filling me out, and little goes a long ways. It is a wet compound so you will hold water while on, but for me the water came off and in a week or so and I was still much fuller looking after a 6 week run which plenty enough time to get what you need from this short ester
Click to expand...
 
Montego1 said:
So my opinion of underrated and Overrated.

I think the most underrated AAS is test. It's usually an afterthought for most.

"Yeah I'm gonna run 500mg test e with, tren, Deca, EQ, dbol, gh, clen, T3 and insulin."

That's what it feels like most cycles turn into these days. Very rarely do you see anyone besides a beginner run just straight test. Truth is, and I'm guilty of this myself, if we were to run a straight test cycle with a little higher dose instead of adding in 2-3 other compounds, the overall MG would come down, sides would probably be less and I'm sure almost equal progress would be made. Feel better, train better. Simple.

And don't get me started on the low test high other things. That's just silly to me and I laugh too myself every time I see it.

Most Overrated -

Orals. Any ORAL besides Proviron. Unless you're about to step on stage or the platform, I see zero reason to run orals besides when you have REALLY hit a plateu in growth and food and training are to the extreme.

Let's be honest. When have you ever ran say anadrol, finished your cycle and kept that 15lbs? Maybe your first cycle you kept 5? MAYBE.

Typically it goes like this.

"Two weeks into the anadrol and I'm up ten lbs! Don't see much water if any. Very full and tight. Strength is through the roof! Pumps are crazy!"

Yep. You're a water balloon. You haven't gained much of any lean tissue. It's water. What happens when you stop the anadrol? Slowly shrink back down.

Not only are the gains from orals mostly from intra cellular water, they do stress the body. Back pumps, liver function, mood and so on. Like I said earlier, feel good train good.

Let's stop with the orals. And if we're not gonna stop, let's just use them pre workout and get some actual benefit instead of mind fucking ourselves into progress we haven't really made.
Click to expand...
Monte, absolutely agree with you on the orals. I have a few bottles of msten and dmz (both originals). The sides have gotten worse with age. Can no longer tolerate them after more than a few weeks.

You mentioned using drol and dbol as pwo. Can msten and dmz be used pwo as well? Or would it be a waste? Just looking for a way to use up what I have left...
 
iceman1977 said:
Monte, absolutely agree with you on the orals. I have a few bottles of msten and dmz (both originals). The sides have gotten worse with age. Can no longer tolerate them after more than a few weeks.

You mentioned using drol and dbol as pwo. Can msten and dmz be used pwo as well? Or would it be a waste? Just looking for a way to use up what I have left...
Click to expand...
Yeah you could use them the same way.

Just dose it 45-60 minutes pre workout and enjoy.
 
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