Gut Check Topics

I'm gonna make this thread outside of the pit because I would like it to stay at least somewhat focused on a topic and not turn into shit show but, the idea behind this is to get into some good discussion about topics that can get contraversel. Let's disagree and argue points but do so as adults.... Or at least adults on AAS

OVERCOMPLOCATION -

When most of us started bodybuilding, (I considered training with weights to gain muscle, eating for a goal, doing cardio and taking AAS bodybuilding so we all fit the bill) it probably started simple.

Training in school for sports doing basic bench and squat, pull-ups, maybe some overhead pressing and power cleans. This was where a lot of us got into the lifestyle. It was simple. Ego played into it. You wanted to be stronger then a friend maybe or wanted to look a certain way. You know, typical teen stuff.

This probably transitioned into more variety of training. Rows, DB work, and arms every day. Lol

A lot of us built a base, even though it could have been built with just about anything at this stage since we were new to training, with simple training compound movements and eating.

At some point we move away from that a bit, myself included. It turns into more machine work. Maybe some supersets. Trying to get a new "stimulus".

This works then eventually stops. So what's next? Well we have to try a new approach right? Rest pause. Drop sets. Giant sets. Less rest. 2 a days.

This works and then stops. What next? Let's try a new "stimulus"! Blood flow restriction. Metabolic training. Fuck me. There's a million things now.

So, my question is. Dorian, Branch Warren, Ronnie Coleman, Kai Green, Johnny Jackson, Luke Sandow, Dusty Hanshaw. What do these guys have in common. I don't need people to say they got injured. I get it. That's not what we're talking about.

What did/do they have in common when it comes to bodybuilding. There's about 5 things.

Do we want to start with genetics? Or has that been hashed too much recently?

Multislacking said:

Do we want to start with genetics? Or has that been hashed too much recently?

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That's a good start but, let's talk about things we can control.

Work ethic. Consistency. Diet. AAS. Where we going?

Well Kai just loves lifting and being in the gym... He really doesnt lift heavy but does a shit ton of reps!

Skinnyguy180 said:

Well Kai just loves lifting and being in the gym... He really doesnt lift heavy but does a shit ton of reps!

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He doesn't lift heavy?

Montego1 said:

He doesn't lift heavy?

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No his whole thing is proper contraction with lighter weight... I mean heavy for me? yeah! but heavy for a guy his size? no. lift heavy every once in a while.. But I watch his instagram stories everyday and he mostly benches with like 225 curls like the 30s... keeps it lighter for a guy with those tree trunk legs also.

Skinnyguy180 said:

No his whole thing is proper contraction with lighter weight... I mean heavy for me? yeah! but heavy for a guy his size? no. lift heavy every once in a while.. But I watch his instagram stories everyday and he mostly benches with like 225 curls like the 30s... keeps it lighter for a guy with those tree trunk legs also.

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May want to look at some of his past training videos and documentaries.

Repping 585 on Squats, 405 on Incline and rowing 8 plates isn't light no matter how big you are.

The point of feeling the muscle working is correct though. All of those guys had amazing mind muscle connection even if some of them had less then perfect form. You can see that during the sets.

Multislacking said:

Work ethic. Consistency. Diet. AAS. Where we going?

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That direction.

So these guys did the basic shit. Genetics aside, they did those things better then anyone else. They trained hard as fuck, they ate their asses off and they did it day in and day out. That's it.

The follow up to this is, should the process become harder the more advanced you get? Not the effort it takes but, the thought that goes into it. Or.... Here's a crazy idea, should it get easier......

Montego1 said:

That direction.

So these guys did the basic shit. Genetics aside, they did those things better then anyone else. They trained hard as fuck, they ate their asses off and they did it day in and day out. That's it.

The follow up to this is, should the process become harder the more advanced you get? Not the effort it takes but, the thought that goes into it. Or.... Here's a crazy idea, should it get easier......

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Easier..the mind and body become used to it after a certain amount of time its just second nature..its just what you do.

Granted the work will be harder but the discipline thats been built should make the process easier the more youve done it..IMO

Genetics play a huge roll imo. Some guys can become freaky on very moderate gear with hard training and moderate diet. I’ve seen it so many times in my life. It’s when you discipline yourself and push to the limit every single time like someone’s holding a gun to your head. One can bust his ass and eat diciplined day in day out and take piles of gear and still look mediocre.

Guys focus way too much on drugs here.

If guys were serious they would be asking diet and training tips.

Recently a post about test-e, test-c or sust for testosterone during cycle.

None of that shit matters if you do not address diet and training first.

But the first thing you see in these posts by OP is diet is spot on just so these OPs do not have to answer the most critical question.

99% of us are gym rats, not professional bodybuilders and rule number one is diet and training first.

Drugs are way overrated!

Multislacking said:

Work ethic. Consistency. Diet. AAS. Where we going?

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BAM...
Well said. I mean that AND the gentics everyone is dicsussing.
Does good genetics also include their actual individual response to AAS? I feel they're seperate variables.
Having a great coach/ dietician.


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We're not talking about genetics.

IMO, consistency is the foundation on which everything else is built. Consistent with gym time, consistent with diet, etc. If you're consistent, you can make a small change to diet/training/etc and know fairly quickly if it is working or not. Conversely, if you're all over the place with diet/training/etc, how do you know if it's the current change or the previous change that made the difference and the results are just now showing?

Multislacking said:

IMO, consistency is the foundation on which everything else is built. Consistent with gym time, consistent with diet, etc. If you're consistent, you can make a small change to diet/training/etc and know fairly quickly if it is working or not. Conversely, if you're all over the place with diet/training/etc, how do you know if it's the current change or the previous change that made the difference and the results are just now showing?

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Perfect thinking.

So here's what my whole point is.

You see all these new personalities coming out on YouTube and Instagram and all that shit.

Each one of them has some new training approach or method that works like magic. Some new cheat meal that works better then everything else. Some new drug combination that will make you huge.

You know what happens to them and their methods in a year? They're gone.

You know what's still around and still working better then anything else? The basics.

Don't waste time over analyzing. Don't waste time following a new fad.

Stick to what works. Training hard and heavy. Eating simply to support your goal. Keeping drugs as low and simple as possible.

It's a marathon guys, nobody got huge or shredded in a day. The bigger/leaner you want to be, the longer it will take. There's no other way to explain it.

Montego1 said:

So, my question is. Dorian, Branch Warren, Ronnie Coleman, Kai Green, Johnny Jackson, Luke Sandow, Dusty Hanshaw. What do these guys have in common. I don't need people to say they got injured. I get it. That's not what we're talking about.

What did/do they have in common when it comes to bodybuilding. There's about 5 things.

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Skip Foursome said:

Guys focus way too much on drugs here.

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Those guys took way more gear than anybody on here even thinks about. Outside of perhaps Swiper, who still took less, nobody on this site is focusing on drugs as much as those listed (and swiper could have done well on stage). Nobody on here is even doing well as an amateur competitor, much less a professional, much less a professional whose name we recognize. And plenty of guys, especially some of the competitors here, know a shitload about and focus plenty on workout and diet, just for example, hj2, tren2k14, and the original poster of this thread.

There may indeed be a difference in genetics, but until anybody is doing the kind of gear those guys are doing, they will never know how they would end up looking and where their genetics would take them.

Lone voice crying in the wilderness here . . .

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None of this means I disagree with Monte's main point about the basics and not overcomplicating things, but that is not what separates those names from the guys on this site.

malfeasance said:

Those guys took way more gear than anybody on here even thinks about. Outside of perhaps Swiper, who still took less, nobody on this site is focusing on drugs as much as those listed (and swiper could have done well on stage). Nobody on here is even doing well as an amateur competitor, much less a professional, much less a professional whose name we recognize. And plenty of guys, especially some of the competitors here, know a shitload about and focus plenty on workout and diet, just for example, hj2, tren2k14, and the original poster of this thread.

There may indeed be a difference in genetics, but until anybody is doing the kind of gear those guys are doing, they will never know how they would end up looking and where their genetics would take them.

Lone voice crying in the wilderness here . . .

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None of this means I disagree with Monte's main point about the basics and not overcomplicating things, but that is not what separates those names from the guys on this site.

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I'm not asking what separates them from us.

I'm not talking about the gear they used.

I'm not talking about genetics.

Everyone is over complicating this thread about not over complication lol.

They all had the same things in common, train hard, eat tons of food and stay consistent with those things. And they were all huge.

Do those things and you'll progress. You don't need crazy training programs or crazy cycles.

Montego1 said:

I'm not asking what separates them from us.

I'm not talking about the gear they used.

I'm not talking about genetics.

Everyone is over complicating this thread about not over complication lol.

They all had the same things in common, train hard, eat tons of food and stay consistent with those things. And they were all huge.

Do those things and you'll progress. You don't need crazy training programs or crazy cycles.

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I think diet is where most people struggle the most.. they hit a wall in progress and look at gears and training first. If your not making gains lifting heavier or pinning more gears is not gong to help you near as much as an extra meal with a half pound of chicken and a baked sweet potato.

Skinnyguy180 said:

I think diet is where most people struggle the most.. they hit a wall in progress and look at gears and training first. If your not making gains lifting heavier or pinning more gears is not gong to help you near as much as an extra meal with a half pound of chicken and a baked sweet potato.

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Carbs can make all the difference. Will literally make you feel like you are "on" if you've been going without them for awhile.

Skinnyguy180 said:

I think diet is where most people struggle the most.. they hit a wall in progress and look at gears and training first. If your not making gains lifting heavier or pinning more gears is not gong to help you near as much as an extra meal with a half pound of chicken and a baked sweet potato.

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I agree.

Keeping a consistent nutrition plan in place for an extended time, is almost impossible for most people. Be it just lack of disciple, losing motivating or, life events happening that throw things out of whack, there's almost always a struggle.

In terms of importance though, training is more important then diet imo. Without training you don't get the stimulus for growth. No stimulus, no growth no matter how good diet is. It's a very light edge that direction.

Multislacking said:

Carbs can make all the difference. Will literally make you feel like you are "on" if you've been going without them for awhile.

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Yup.

The simplicity of growing is just over complicated, hence the thread.

Eat a surplus, train heavy and hard with movements that are 100% gonna translate to growth, don't waste time with fluffy training shit, sleep. You'll grow.