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Deadlifts on gear :(

Vision

Vision

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Get Shredded!
I don't know about you jabronies, but whatever I blast and add orals deadlifts are almost impossible for me.. when cruising it's not such a problem, but holy mother of God weapons of mass destruction; deadlifts + gearz = complete Annihilation and debilitation.. :(
In all my years I have never got used to this.. the back pumps are just utterly ridiculous..

It's getting to the point that I'll throw a few sets in on back day and then a few sets in on leg day.. I can't make a full session of it and go balls to the walls :(

Anyone else out there with the same handicap?
 
Yes! When i use orals i can maybe get 2 sets before i have to lay down and stretch my back. Fucking horrible
 
I have a workaround. I heat my lower back for about a half hour prior to deadlifts. Heating pad, hot bath, or doing my morning errands with the heated seats blasting in my car. It's not the perfect cure but I can get in a lot more sets than I could without.
 
Certain orals would cause me to have debilitating lower back pumps even on other exercises besides deadlifts. I'm thinking of not using any orals other than proviron going forward.
 
OfficerFarva said:
Certain orals would cause me to have debilitating lower back pumps even on other exercises besides deadlifts. I'm thinking of not using any orals other than proviron going forward.
Click to expand...

That is literally the option I'm looking at right now because even standing there doing alternate dumbbell curls my back is ready to take a shit..
 
Which orals are really known to cause worse back pumps ? I have never experienced this and I have done Dbol, A-Bombs, Var, Winstrol and Tbol and of course proviron :)


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badboys said:
Which orals are really known to cause worse back pumps ? I have never experienced this and I have done Dbol, A-Bombs, Var, Winstrol and Tbol and of course proviron :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Truthfully, almost any oral for me..some are more pronounced than others, but almost all do this to me..
 
Don't use orals silly goose.

I have decided I'll never use another oral unless it's in prep... Just not worth it.

Try rack pulls above the knee instead. A better exercise for the back anyways imo.
 
IML Gear Cream!
Montego1 said:
Don't use orals silly goose.

I have decided I'll never use another oral unless it's in prep... Just not worth it.

Try rack pulls above the knee instead. A better exercise for the back anyways imo.
Click to expand...
I didn't even think of doing rack pulls, thats a great alternative..essentially its the same moment, well at least at the tail end of the motion..:winkfinger:

REHH got my attention in one of his posts about simply just using oral conversion/oils in lieu of orals..The older I get the more sensitive I'm getting,it's getting frustrating because its like having to start all over and finding what works and what doesnt, after years of being set in my ways..
 
Vision said:
Truthfully, almost any oral for me..some are more pronounced than others, but almost all do this to me..
Click to expand...

I didn't get them bad from 20mg of phera. Have you tried it?
 
judgmentalist said:
Any idea what exactly causes this?


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Click to expand...
Here's some info I put together and a study included.. It can apply to back,forarms,shins, etc etc.. I'll high-lite in blue what may be the trigger mechanism in the back..It's known as "CECS"..

[h=2]AAS induced forearm pump? Well, it may be a little more than that![/h]
Over the years we've seen threads/posts where individuals stress unbearable pumps in many regions of the body, lower back, shins, and at times "forearms".. I'm one of them that wail and moan about debilitating forearm pumps, hindering my gym session entirely at times.

Some users see this as a keen indication that their compounds may in fact be legit/authentic, but unbeknownst to them, it could be a hidden unknown aliment known as "CECS" during hyperemia (which we expect due to load and stress)..That's not the danger here tho, its the exit flow response that's the culprit (read on)

We all can agree that through the presences of AAS there will be an increase with RBC'c, nitrogen, increase in blood flow/circulation, increased CV performance, along with increased BP..With this said, many of us may already possess a genetic-predisposition, inducing an already preexisting condition that may not typically be a factor normally, it may be a slight annoyance when under heavy stress/exertion, or maybe it's mild and tolerated for some..However, it may increase while taking exogenous hormones amplifying the discomfort, Chronic Exertional Compartment Syndrome (CECS) of the Forearm..

Arm Pump - Chronic Exertional Compartment Syndrome (CECS) of the Forearm

What is it?
Arm pump is a clinical condition in which an individual develops intermittent marked pain in the forearms after a period of exercise or exertion. The pain is thought to arise due to swelling of the muscles of the forearm that affects the blood flow to these muscle and causes the oxygen levels to drop.

Who gets it?
Arm pump typically affects younger adults, mainly men. It is most commonly associated with motor sports such as motocross and road racing, but other activities such as paddling, weight lifting and mountaineering can induce this condition. It is thought that riders participating in motocross and road racing are particularly affected due to the combination of vibration, forced grip and repeated wrist movements to control the throttle. The symptoms typically start approximately 7 minutes in to the race.

How do I know if I have it?
This is not a common condition but it should be considered in an individual who develops marked forearm pain after a period of exertion that settles spontaneously after a period of rest (ranging from 12 minutes to 24 hours). The forearm will typically feel hard and tight while the pain is present. Numbness in the hand, or cramping of the muscles of the forearm, weakness or clumsiness may occur.

How is the diagnosis made?
To make the diagnosis your doctor will ask you questions and will perform special tests. Often the clinical examination will be normal. Your doctor will usually refer you to a specialist surgeon for investigation when the diagnosis is suspected. The specialist may recommend serial MRI scans of the arms at rest, immediately after exercise and every five minutes for a period of 15 minutes but this is quite an expensive investigation. MRI scan may help to exclude other causes of forearm pain (see below). The condition can be diagnosed by direct measurement of the pressure within the muscles. This can only be done by passing a needle through the skin into the muscle under local anaesthetic and connecting this needle to a pressure device. This is an invasive procedure and should only be performed by a specialist. The diagnosis is said to be supported if the pressures are >10mmHg at rest and >20mmHg 1 and 5 minutes after exertion. The speed that the pressure returns to baseline after exertion may be a more reliable diagnostic determinant. An increase in the circumference of the forearm on exertion may also be found.

How is the condition treated?
Attempts at symptom control by activity modification and rest should be tried first but are not always successful. Arm pump can be treated by surgery to release the fascia (connective tissue covering) of the muscle. This is usually done under a general anaesthetic and the tissue can either be split or removed. The outcomes of these two procedures are thought to be the same. Where the diagnosis is correct successful outcome can be expected in the majority of patients (80-90%). Patient satisfaction has been reported to be very high following this procedure.

What happens after the operation?
After surgical fasciectomy/fasciotomy the patient must rest the arm. The arm is bandaged but a splint is not required. The wound must be kept dry for 10 days. Active mobilisation exercises are undertaken. Most individuals can return to their sport/occupation at four to six weeks after surgery. Performance may be improved after surgery for some individuals.

What other conditions have similar symptoms?
Tendinopathies (such as tennis or golfers elbow) of the forearm muscles, blood vessel or nerve entrapment may present with similar symptoms and should be excluded.


References:


  1. BrownJS, Wheeler PC, Boyd KT, Barnes MR, Allen MJ. Chronic exertional compartment syndrome of the forearm: acase series of 12 patients treated with fasciotomy. JHS(E) 2011;36E(5):413-419.
  2. RaphaelBS, Paletta GA, Shin SS. Chronic exertional compartment syndrome of the forearm in a major league baseball pitcher. Am J Sports Med2011;39:2242-2244.
  3. BerlemannU, Al-Momani Z, Hertel R. Exercise induced compartment syndrome in the flexor pronator muscle group. Am J Sport Med 1998;26:3
  4. PedowitzRA, Toutounghi F. Chronic exertional compartment syndrome of the forearm flexor muscles. JHS(A) 1988;13(5):694-696
  5. WinkesMB, LuitenE, van ZoetsWJF, SalaHA, HoogeveenAR, ScheltingaMR. Long term results of surgical decompression of chronic exertional compartments syndrome of the forearm in motorcross racers. Am J Sports MEd 2012;40(2):452-458
 
On tren eq test and anavar. I was a deadlifting monster. Once a week i would annihilate those weights. My back pump was very optimal and i loved it. I always do 5x8 or 3x8.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Vision said:
Here's some info I put together and a study included.. It can apply to back,forarms,shins, etc etc.. I'll high-lite in blue what may be the trigger mechanism in the back..It's known as "CECS"..

[h=2]AAS induced forearm pump? Well, it may be a little more than that![/h]
Over the years we've seen threads/posts where individuals stress unbearable pumps in many regions of the body, lower back, shins, and at times "forearms".. I'm one of them that wail and moan about debilitating forearm pumps, hindering my gym session entirely at times.

Some users see this as a keen indication that their compounds may in fact be legit/authentic, but unbeknownst to them, it could be a hidden unknown aliment known as "CECS" during hyperemia (which we expect due to load and stress)..That's not the danger here tho, its the exit flow response that's the culprit (read on)

We all can agree that through the presences of AAS there will be an increase with RBC'c, nitrogen, increase in blood flow/circulation, increased CV performance, along with increased BP..With this said, many of us may already possess a genetic-predisposition, inducing an already preexisting condition that may not typically be a factor normally, it may be a slight annoyance when under heavy stress/exertion, or maybe it's mild and tolerated for some..However, it may increase while taking exogenous hormones amplifying the discomfort, Chronic Exertional Compartment Syndrome (CECS) of the Forearm..

Arm Pump - Chronic Exertional Compartment Syndrome (CECS) of the Forearm

What is it?
Arm pump is a clinical condition in which an individual develops intermittent marked pain in the forearms after a period of exercise or exertion. The pain is thought to arise due to swelling of the muscles of the forearm that affects the blood flow to these muscle and causes the oxygen levels to drop.

Who gets it?
Arm pump typically affects younger adults, mainly men. It is most commonly associated with motor sports such as motocross and road racing, but other activities such as paddling, weight lifting and mountaineering can induce this condition. It is thought that riders participating in motocross and road racing are particularly affected due to the combination of vibration, forced grip and repeated wrist movements to control the throttle. The symptoms typically start approximately 7 minutes in to the race.

How do I know if I have it?
This is not a common condition but it should be considered in an individual who develops marked forearm pain after a period of exertion that settles spontaneously after a period of rest (ranging from 12 minutes to 24 hours). The forearm will typically feel hard and tight while the pain is present. Numbness in the hand, or cramping of the muscles of the forearm, weakness or clumsiness may occur.

How is the diagnosis made?
To make the diagnosis your doctor will ask you questions and will perform special tests. Often the clinical examination will be normal. Your doctor will usually refer you to a specialist surgeon for investigation when the diagnosis is suspected. The specialist may recommend serial MRI scans of the arms at rest, immediately after exercise and every five minutes for a period of 15 minutes but this is quite an expensive investigation. MRI scan may help to exclude other causes of forearm pain (see below). The condition can be diagnosed by direct measurement of the pressure within the muscles. This can only be done by passing a needle through the skin into the muscle under local anaesthetic and connecting this needle to a pressure device. This is an invasive procedure and should only be performed by a specialist. The diagnosis is said to be supported if the pressures are >10mmHg at rest and >20mmHg 1 and 5 minutes after exertion. The speed that the pressure returns to baseline after exertion may be a more reliable diagnostic determinant. An increase in the circumference of the forearm on exertion may also be found.

How is the condition treated?
Attempts at symptom control by activity modification and rest should be tried first but are not always successful. Arm pump can be treated by surgery to release the fascia (connective tissue covering) of the muscle. This is usually done under a general anaesthetic and the tissue can either be split or removed. The outcomes of these two procedures are thought to be the same. Where the diagnosis is correct successful outcome can be expected in the majority of patients (80-90%). Patient satisfaction has been reported to be very high following this procedure.

What happens after the operation?
After surgical fasciectomy/fasciotomy the patient must rest the arm. The arm is bandaged but a splint is not required. The wound must be kept dry for 10 days. Active mobilisation exercises are undertaken. Most individuals can return to their sport/occupation at four to six weeks after surgery. Performance may be improved after surgery for some individuals.

What other conditions have similar symptoms?
Tendinopathies (such as tennis or golfers elbow) of the forearm muscles, blood vessel or nerve entrapment may present with similar symptoms and should be excluded.


References:


  1. BrownJS, Wheeler PC, Boyd KT, Barnes MR, Allen MJ. Chronic exertional compartment syndrome of the forearm: acase series of 12 patients treated with fasciotomy. JHS(E) 2011;36E(5):413-419.
  2. RaphaelBS, Paletta GA, Shin SS. Chronic exertional compartment syndrome of the forearm in a major league baseball pitcher. Am J Sports Med2011;39:2242-2244.
  3. BerlemannU, Al-Momani Z, Hertel R. Exercise induced compartment syndrome in the flexor pronator muscle group. Am J Sport Med 1998;26:3
  4. PedowitzRA, Toutounghi F. Chronic exertional compartment syndrome of the forearm flexor muscles. JHS(A) 1988;13(5):694-696
  5. WinkesMB, LuitenE, van ZoetsWJF, SalaHA, HoogeveenAR, ScheltingaMR. Long term results of surgical decompression of chronic exertional compartments syndrome of the forearm in motorcross racers. Am J Sports MEd 2012;40(2):452-458
Click to expand...

Hmmm... not sure where this came from... I thought we were talking about crazy back pumps. :)

For the record I get this big time using either TNE or a TNE/Tren base mix PWO. Hell, I’m doing a cruise at 300mg/wk Test, 300mg/wk Deca and I still get it with the wrong supersets.

I’d really like to know what the biomechanics of this are and what if anything can be done to mitigate it. Anything other than the obvious of course.


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judgmentalist said:
Hmmm... not sure where this came from... I thought we were talking about crazy back pumps. :)

For the record I get this big time using either TNE or a TNE/Tren base mix PWO. Hell, I’m doing a cruise at 300mg/wk Test, 300mg/wk Deca and I still get it with the wrong supersets.

I’d really like to know what the biomechanics of this are and what if anything can be done to mitigate it. Anything other than the obvious of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Its virtually the same thing.. CECS of the lower back group muscles
 
Last edited:
Has anyone observed a difference in this before/after donating blood? I wonder if decreased volume, hemaglobin or hematocrit would reduce the severity of this thing.


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I have the same problem with deadlifts even just on Test. Can’t even stand after two sets.


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V - Try hanging from the pull-up bar with some weight strapped on between sets. It helps decompress the spine and stretch the back muscles.

It's a good idea to do this in general after heavy squats or deads.
 
Get Shredded!
iceman1977 said:
V - Try hanging from the pull-up bar with some weight strapped on between sets. It helps decompress the spine and stretch the back muscles.

It's a good idea to do this in general after heavy squats or deads.
Click to expand...

Yeah? I will definitely give that a shot my dude, that actually sounds like it will feel pretty damn good stretching out..
 
I have had my lower back pop when doing weighted bar dips. It felt good. Put everything back into place.
 
iceman1977 said:
V - Try hanging from the pull-up bar with some weight strapped on between sets. It helps decompress the spine and stretch the back muscles.

It's a good idea to do this in general after heavy squats or deads.
Click to expand...
I hung from the wrack today with a weighted belt, your right, it does feel great..I loosened it up so it hung way lower on the waistline..great tip!

I wanna try one of those inverted table/beds now..
 
Vision said:
I didn't even think of doing rack pulls, thats a great alternative..essentially its the same moment, well at least at the tail end of the motion..:winkfinger:

REHH got my attention in one of his posts about simply just using oral conversion/oils in lieu of orals..The older I get the more sensitive I'm getting,it's getting frustrating because its like having to start all over and finding what works and what doesnt, after years of being set in my ways..
Click to expand...
Same here.

SD used to be great.

Now, it's not worth it.

To have to stop my workout and sit on an incline bench to take the weight off my lower back sucks.

Taurine didn't help even at 6 grams pd.

I'm gonna try tbol this time around. We'll see it I can handle it better...

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CompoundLifts31 said:
Same here.

SD used to be great.

Now, it's not worth it.

To have to stop my workout and sit on an incline bench to take the weight off my lower back sucks.

Taurine didn't help even at 6 grams pd.

I'm gonna try tbol this time around. We'll see it I can handle it better...

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
thats what's happening here , its getting worst as time goes on.. It never use to be this bad..I sit in awkwardly positions just to get relief..split dosing orals don't help, taurine is a joke and does jack for me! :mad:
 
It happens to me on squat days too. They're not as bad as dead lifts, but there's no way I'm missing my compound leg lifts for orals!!!

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Montego1 said:
Don't use orals silly goose.

I have decided I'll never use another oral unless it's in prep... Just not worth it.

Try rack pulls above the knee instead. A better exercise for the back anyways imo.
Click to expand...
good judgment call, last nights session was a bit more tolerable..
 
I thought it was my kidneys for the longest time then found out it was the dbol same thing with Superdrol for me. Made dead’s impossible for four weeks till I stopped


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I get the crazy back pumps on squats and deadlifts. I hang from a bar as others have stated. I also lay on my back, bend one leg and strech it across my body, then repeat with the other side. I use the opposing arm to strech my knee across while my other arm is straight out to the side.
 
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