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judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 05:17 AM
OK so my wife is feeling a little left out of the loop now that I'm getting back on track with eating healthy and working out and of course I'm going to be on TRT/possibly other stuff as well.

I've been reading about the effects of a small amount of exogenous testosterone on a woman. I have considered the possibility of helping my wife kickstart her return to a healthy lifestyle this way. I've talk to her about it a little, That it would make it easier for her to burn a little fat, build a little muscle, have more energy etc. etc. she seems interested.

Of course, this would have the added benefit of making her more favorably disposed toward certain other extracurricular activities.

It would also be nice if I could get her to be obsessed with working out so she wouldn't give me such a hard time about being at the gym all the time. :)

What do you guys think?


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Lokthan
04-12-2017, 05:18 AM
Im pretty sure thats usually meant for women with crashed test.

Why not anavar?

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judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 05:45 AM
I don't know anything about Anavar. That's why I asked this question, because I just started researching the topic. I will look into it, thanks.


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GearGoddess
04-12-2017, 06:24 AM
Women can run test and it does have its benefits. Women don't have "crashed" test, our test levels are minimal to start. Typically, women who go the test route are older, even post menopausal or advanced competitors. It all depends on goals and where she's at in her life.

I would suggest for her to start researching but before she jumps into the dark side, she must have her diet and training down. Adding hormones and altering your own just because is careless. Especially not having everything else in place first.

So I would start there. What are her stats, goals and current habits like (diet and training)?

Once that's done, she can research compounds and find one that matches up with her goals.

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GarlicChicken
04-12-2017, 06:39 AM
Women can run test and it does have its benefits. Women don't have "crashed" test, our test levels are minimal to start. Typically, women who go the test route are older, even post menopausal or advanced competitors. It all depends on goals and where she's at in her life.

I would suggest for her to start researching but before she jumps into the dark side, she must have her diet and training down. Adding hormones and altering your own just because is careless. Especially not having everything else in place first.

So I would start there. What are her stats, goals and current habits like (diet and training)?

Once that's done, she can research compounds and find one that matches up with her goals.

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Bingo.

If her diet and training aren't on point it's not going to accomplish anything other than making her horny and retaining a boatload of water, which will make her feel worse about herself. My fiancee is on testosterone replacement, but we did a lot of research and got several blood tests beforehand to verify that she was indeed low. She's 39 and her levels were right at 7ng/dL consistently at various times during her cycle, which was exaggerating the effects of the very erratic pulses of estrogen her body was producing. She has had a partial historectomy already as well.

Once her diet and training are down, start looking into different things depending on her goals. Definitely don't start her on test for no good reason. Coming off of test seems to be pretty rough for women, judging on what I've seen when my fiancee missed a couple shots because she was out of town. Really bad acne, crazy hormone fluctuations, and wildly swinging moods being the most apparent.

judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 07:58 AM
Thanks you guys. :-) First of all, I'm the researcher in the family. If anyone will have a thorough grasp of the science involved it will be me. We often joke in my family about me being a German (uptight, obsessive, meticulous) and my wife being a hippie. (laid-back, free-spirited, creative thinker). I often will thoroughly digest a complicated subject and then give my wife the Cliff Notes version with my annotations. :-). As far as diet and exercise are concerned, we're both in the same boat more or less. We were both very active through our 20s and early 30s and then somewhere around kid number three and the economic crisis of 2008 we both kind of let things go in favor of what, at the time, seems like more pressing concerns. We're both tired of feeling old and ready to get it together.

My real concern is that I have always been a fast Gainer and fanatically devoted to physical fitness as long as I keep that as my primary focus. Combine that with the fact that I'm going on TRT and I'm about to have the testosterone levels of a 22-year-old kid, and I'm very concerned about leaving my wife in the dust.

I am mainly doing the research to show her that I'm just as interested in her progress as I am in mine.

I've been reading about Anavar, and apparently this hormone is considered to be gentler for women and less prone to virilization. This makes sense, but I have only read blanket statements without any actual data to support why this is the case. Also many cutting cycles for women seem to include Anavar, clenbuterol and Nolvadex at the end.

I'm interested if anyone can link me an article that discusses the exact mechanism by which Anavar limits virilization, And I would also like to know why Nolvadex is typically included at the end of a cycle. I wouldn't think that it will be necessary for a woman to limit estrogen in this way.



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malfeasance
04-12-2017, 08:03 AM
You did not answer a single question about her diet and training. This tells me she probably has a couple solid years of training and strict diet to undergo before even being concerned with entertaining thoughts of even the mildest anavar cycle.

judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 08:07 AM
You did not answer a single question about her diet and training. This tells me she probably has a couple solid years of training and strict diet to undergo before even being concerned with entertaining thoughts of even the mildest anavar cycle.





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judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 08:16 AM
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No, what that tells you is I'm dictating this to my iPhone while driving from between appointments at work. They can make it somewhat difficult to maintain the thread of conversation.

My wife's diet is already naturally perfect for the most part.She doesn't eat junk food, she she only eats fuck this is hard without being able to type. She eats healthy basic macro meals. Reasonable sized portions of protein complex carbohydrates in vegetables and fruit. No oh weird fad diets, no flash in the pan bullshit. Her main vice would be salt, she likes things like salsa that have a lot of sodium in them. This is easily remedied with a moderate application of self-control.

As far as exercise is concerned, she does mostly body movement work and cardio, stereo typically female stuff mostly. I'm working with her to get her involved in a more strength-based program in addition to what she's already doing.






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TouaregV8
04-12-2017, 08:25 AM
Since you mentioned the word "stereotypical" hopefully your wife is not in the same mindset as many other women in regard to lifting weights and "being too bulky or masculine". If she is your first objective is to dispel that belief. Once you get her on a solid weight training program that she is consistent with 10-20mg/day of anavar plus a clean diet will do wonders for a woman's physique, but I'd suggest that she progresses naturally for awhile before she resorts to AAS.

malfeasance
04-12-2017, 08:26 AM
No, what that tells you is I'm dictating this to my iPhone while driving from between appointments at work.
I need to figure out how to do that.

judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 08:31 AM
Since you mentioned the word "stereotypical" hopefully your wife is not in the same mindset as many other women in regard to lifting weights and "being too bulky or masculine". If she is your first objective is to dispel that belief. Once you get her on a solid weight training program that she is consistent with 10-20mg/day of anavar plus a clean diet will do wonders for a woman's physique, but I'd suggest that she progresses naturally for awhile before she resorts to AAS.

Thanks. No, she doesn't think lifting weights will make her look like a dude dude, she's just less motivated to lift then she is to do yoga or whatever.


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judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 08:32 AM
I need to figure out how to do that.

Don't bother man. Unless you're working 20 hours a day and this is the only time you've got for this shit it's more of a pain in the ass than anything else. :-)


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GearGoddess
04-12-2017, 08:51 AM
I honestly see that you are wanting this more for your selfish reasons so she can "keep up" with you and not for what she needs.

And I'm glad you are researching this subject but you will never actually understand it or be able to give your wife the "cliff notes" unless you ARE a woman yourself. She needs to research for herself and decide if this is a risk she wants to take. You have no idea what we need to do, feel, or keep an eye on, etc. Only us women will truly understand what is said about women's cycles and what to expect.

She's not ready to venture off to this world. She needs her basics in place first.

Var is a mild but potent compound. If that makes sense. It is good for women but some can get more undesirable sides from var than they can from anadrol for example. All women are different and only we know our bodies truly. There are many if not most compounds that we can use safely but we need to understand first that without proper nutrition and training along with cardio, it's all irrelevant and will leave her disappointed.

And there is no such thing as limiting virilization with any compound including var. It all depends how the woman responds to additional androgens in the body. And truthfully, that is one side that's actually pretty cool but very misunderstood by many thinking we will grow a penis. Love button sensitivity is a fun side, it makes a lot of women quite happy. And again, fairly easy to control when the woman is aware of her body.

Now you say that you've both been away from the fitness lifestyle... then that's more proof she needs to get herself back on track naturally before she adds anything.

At the absolute maximum, once she has those in place, she could incorporate the ECA stack to help her with fat burning, energy, appetite and cravings control. But she's far from ready to venture off to the AAS world.

As for your reference to clen and nolvadex with var, that is an advanced stack that a woman getting ready in contest prep and may incorporate as it all has its place. You clearly aren't looking in the right places and would be more risk for your wife suggesting such combos.

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GearGoddess
04-12-2017, 08:52 AM
You did not answer a single question about her diet and training. This tells me she probably has a couple solid years of training and strict diet to undergo before even being concerned with entertaining thoughts of even the mildest anavar cycle.
Absolutely agreed! 1000000000000%

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GearGoddess
04-12-2017, 09:01 AM
Thanks. No, she doesn't think lifting weights will make her look like a dude dude, she's just less motivated to lift then she is to do yoga or whatever.


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Then AAS aren't for her. And your stereotype is pretty outdated... many women pick weights over cardio. Let her do her thing then and she needs to want to do that transition, no AAS will give her that drive and motivation. It could actually be more harm.

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judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 09:48 AM
I honestly see that you are wanting this more for your selfish reasons so she can "keep up" with you and not for what she needs.



This statement is so fucking ignorant. You know nothing about me or my wife other than what you have clearly misunderstood from three sentences I dictated into a phone while driving. I am constantly frustrated at how quickly the forum police want to jump in and pass judgment on someone based on little to no information.

For the record, I started researching this on my wife's behalf after she expressed her concerns to me about not being able to "keep up" with me.

And she's right. I am a guy so I already have an advantage. I'm going on TRT with a clinic that is willing to keep my T-levels pegged at the high end of normal starting this Friday. This is another unfair advantage.

And I have some obsessive-compulsive personality traits which over the years I have learned to use to my advantage. From the moment I allow this to become my primary focus, I have somewhere between 90-120 days during which my brain chemistry will not allow me to pursue any other goals. I will sleep, eat and breathe all things related to physical fitness with a manic focus. Somewhere between 90-120 days, I will reach a climax that is physically and mentally unsustainable, followed by a crash. The progress I make during this manic period toward achieving my fitness goals will be almost unbelievable; the challenge is to ameliorate the consequences of the crash so I don't fall below normal maintenance functionality and to make sure I can keep the new habits I developed during the manic phase. It has taken me decades to understand this about myself and learn to "ride the wave" to my best advantage and least detriment, but I've gotten pretty good at it.

My wife is not fucked up in this way. She is, and will continue to approach her physical fitness in a balanced way, accurately judging the relative importance of physical fitness among all the other things on her plate. She will not lose weight as fast as me, or make other positive changes to her physique as fast I will, but she will be hell of a lot more mentally stable while she's doing it. And she helps hold shit together while I'm off spazzing out somewhere. I couldn't function without her.

No one can keep up with me when I'm in the grip of an obsession. It's not healthy. I'm not bragging, it fucking sucks. It's like trying to control a firehose. You have a better shot at it when you know what is going on and you are prepared, but it is still exhausting.

She doesn't want to feel left behind. I could give a fuck less whether she looks how I want her to look or whatever, I don't want her to feel bad about herself or feel discouraged. I mentioned to her that there may be some things we could do to give her a little bit of an edge and she said she was interested and therefore I am choosing to incorporate her interest into my research.

I am aware that I don't have a vagina. To pretend that I cannot learn the science behind all of this and make it more easily digestible for my wife, while pointing out things that she may want to be cognizant of is ridiculous.

I know the "cycle" I mentioned is meant for women who intend to participate in competitive bodybuilding, or at least look like they do. Just because I express interest in a topic doesn't mean I'm going to do it. I will wander down many, many dead ends before I find the right path. It is in the nature of developing a practical working knowledge of a complicated subject.

I've read a grand total of three articles I found on the internet in the couple of hours since the existence of Anavar and it's perceived application for women was brought to my attention in this thread. All three made some blanket statement to the effect that Anavar was less likely to make a chick look like a dude than, say, testosterone for example. None of them attempted to explain why.

Regardless, your comment (I'm paraphrasing from memory, I can't see most of your post) that I can't or shouldn't help my wife learn and understand this subject is presumptuous and just fucking stupid. This is our dynamic. This is what I do for her.


Whatever, geargoddess, I've actually gone back and read a lot of your posts since I became interested in the application of this subject as it pertains to women, and I was pleased when I initially saw you had posted in this thread.

Tolerating the fact that internet gurus make assumptions about you whenever you ask a question is just part of this game. Today I let it get under my skin. And now I've sat here for thirty minutes typing like a dumbass instead of doing my job. Goddamn the internet. :)

malfeasance
04-12-2017, 09:53 AM
For the record, I started researching this on my wife's behalf after she expressed her concerns to me about not being able to "keep up" with me.
Well, without an interest in intense resistance training, she is not going to keep up with you. So give her a kiss on the forehead, tell he she is doing great, and drop this stupid idea about AAS for her. Utter nonsense.

- - - Updated - - -

And drop the nasty attitude toward GearGoddess, she knows more about female hormone manipulation than you are capable of learning in the next year.

judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 10:01 AM
Then AAS aren't for her. And your stereotype is pretty outdated... many women pick weights over cardio. Let her do her thing then and she needs to want to do that transition, no AAS will give her that drive and motivation. It could actually be more harm.

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1.) I didn't say she was unmotivated, I said she was less motivated. I.E. she does yoga for fun but lifts weights like it's a job.

2.) I didn't say it was MY stereotype, I was acknowledging that it IS a stereotype. Personally, I think it is a stupid stereotype and I respect women that get in the gym and bust it as hard or harder than any man.

3.) As I have said repeatedly since I joined this forum, learning about AAS is currently no more to me than an interesting diversion. So far I have done nothing more than have labs done that proved that my T is very low and pursue medically sound and legal remedies for this legitimate medical issue.

The first thing we will do is have my wife see a doctor and do some labs to see if her hormone levels are abnormal in any way.


I also always open my car door before I try to get in, and I put my pants on before my shoes.


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judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 10:11 AM
Well, without an interest in intense resistance training, she is not going to keep up with you. So give her a kiss on the forehead, tell he she is doing great, and drop this stupid idea about AAS for her. Utter nonsense.

- - - Updated - - -

And drop the nasty attitude toward GearGoddess, she knows more about female hormone manipulation than you are capable of learning in the next year.

I'm not questioning her knowledge, I am absolutely saying she is being very ignorant with regard to the assumptions she is making about me, my wife, our situation our relationship and our dynamic. The two are not mutually exclusive. If you say I am treating my wife selfishly with no evidence to back it up you can get fucked. I don't care if you are the Pope or a fry cook at Mcdonalds.

Read my posts. I'm pretty easy to get along with. That's probably the only thing she could have done to provoke me into an irate response.


And why can't I make this clear? This is research into an interesting diversion. Just because I say the word Dianabol doesn't mean I'm going to have a feeding tube installed and start shoveling them in.


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JRotten
04-12-2017, 10:56 AM
My standard .02 on the matter: AAS and HGH are not intrinsically bad, and the risks can certainly be minimized, but before dealing with any of the risks the first question I think that needs to be asked is whether or not this is something a person is already committed to and with or without AAS, is training a part of your life? Steroids IMHO have long term effects that are different than something like recreational drugs which seems to be the mindset most people approach steroids with. If you doubt the long term effects of steroids go to any middle school in the country and look at the 6th graders and the 8th graders and you'll see how big of an impact just 18 months of hormones can have. Replacement therapies when they are needed are awesome and frequently will give all the effects someone wants or is willing to work for. I don't have any problems with cycling, blasting and cruising, men's cycles, women's cycles, etc. But I think most people are real willing to take chances they don't understand and it just for themselves but for their wives too. It seems that a lot of people lose their fear of the risks after a few weeks the forums, and while that may not be all bad, it's a little scary how fast people will go from "How much adex do I need with my winny only cycle?" to "I'm gonna put my girlfriend on Clen, t3, winny and primo; what's a good source?"

i'm not knocking the OP because I have no idea who you are, but I think it's a point worth making generally.

judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 11:12 AM
My standard .02 on the matter: AAS and HGH are not intrinsically bad, and the risks can certainly be minimized, but before dealing with any of the risks the first question I think that needs to be asked is whether or not this is something a person is already committed to and with or without AAS, is training a part of your life? Steroids IMHO have long term effects that are different than something like recreational drugs which seems to be the mindset most people approach steroids with. If you doubt the long term effects of steroids go to any middle school in the country and look at the 6th graders and the 8th graders and you'll see how big of an impact just 18 months of hormones can have. Replacement therapies when they are needed are awesome and frequently will give all the effects someone wants or is willing to work for. I don't have any problems with cycling, blasting and cruising, men's cycles, women's cycles, etc. But I think most people are real willing to take chances they don't understand and it just for themselves but for their wives too. It seems that a lot of people lose their fear of the risks after a few weeks the forums, and while that may not be all bad, it's a little scary how fast people will go from "How much adex do I need with my winny only cycle?" to "I'm gonna put my girlfriend on Clen, t3, winny and primo; what's a good source?"

i'm not knocking the OP because I have no idea who you are, but I think it's a point worth making generally.


I agree with everything in this post. In this environment it is very easy and seductive to lose your fear of the risks involved.


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Skip503
04-12-2017, 11:34 AM
I would say from what I read, I have/had the same opinion from your posts that geargoddess does. While you might not have meant things to come off the way you did, I read it how geargoddess answered it.
So to ask for opinions and then get upset from how people answer based off what you have posted (whether it was meant the way it reads or not) is probably not going to help you.
I have no ideas of the workings of a woman to help you. But you have one trying to and you're pissing all over her instead of listening because you don't like the answer.

GearGoddess
04-12-2017, 11:39 AM
This statement is so fucking ignorant. You know nothing about me or my wife other than what you have clearly misunderstood from three sentences I dictated into a phone while driving. I am constantly frustrated at how quickly the forum police want to jump in and pass judgment on someone based on little to no information.

For the record, I started researching this on my wife's behalf after she expressed her concerns to me about not being able to "keep up" with me.

And she's right. I am a guy so I already have an advantage. I'm going on TRT with a clinic that is willing to keep my T-levels pegged at the high end of normal starting this Friday. This is another unfair advantage.

And I have some obsessive-compulsive personality traits which over the years I have learned to use to my advantage. From the moment I allow this to become my primary focus, I have somewhere between 90-120 days during which my brain chemistry will not allow me to pursue any other goals. I will sleep, eat and breathe all things related to physical fitness with a manic focus. Somewhere between 90-120 days, I will reach a climax that is physically and mentally unsustainable, followed by a crash. The progress I make during this manic period toward achieving my fitness goals will be almost unbelievable; the challenge is to ameliorate the consequences of the crash so I don't fall below normal maintenance functionality and to make sure I can keep the new habits I developed during the manic phase. It has taken me decades to understand this about myself and learn to "ride the wave" to my best advantage and least detriment, but I've gotten pretty good at it.

My wife is not fucked up in this way. She is, and will continue to approach her physical fitness in a balanced way, accurately judging the relative importance of physical fitness among all the other things on her plate. She will not lose weight as fast as me, or make other positive changes to her physique as fast I will, but she will be hell of a lot more mentally stable while she's doing it. And she helps hold shit together while I'm off spazzing out somewhere. I couldn't function without her.

No one can keep up with me when I'm in the grip of an obsession. It's not healthy. I'm not bragging, it fucking sucks. It's like trying to control a firehose. You have a better shot at it when you know what is going on and you are prepared, but it is still exhausting.

She doesn't want to feel left behind. I could give a fuck less whether she looks how I want her to look or whatever, I don't want her to feel bad about herself or feel discouraged. I mentioned to her that there may be some things we could do to give her a little bit of an edge and she said she was interested and therefore I am choosing to incorporate her interest into my research.

I am aware that I don't have a vagina. To pretend that I cannot learn the science behind all of this and make it more easily digestible for my wife, while pointing out things that she may want to be cognizant of is ridiculous.

I know the "cycle" I mentioned is meant for women who intend to participate in competitive bodybuilding, or at least look like they do. Just because I express interest in a topic doesn't mean I'm going to do it. I will wander down many, many dead ends before I find the right path. It is in the nature of developing a practical working knowledge of a complicated subject.

I've read a grand total of three articles I found on the internet in the couple of hours since the existence of Anavar and it's perceived application for women was brought to my attention in this thread. All three made some blanket statement to the effect that Anavar was less likely to make a chick look like a dude than, say, testosterone for example. None of them attempted to explain why.

Regardless, your comment (I'm paraphrasing from memory, I can't see most of your post) that I can't or shouldn't help my wife learn and understand this subject is presumptuous and just fucking stupid. This is our dynamic. This is what I do for her.


Whatever, geargoddess, I've actually gone back and read a lot of your posts since I became interested in the application of this subject as it pertains to women, and I was pleased when I initially saw you had posted in this thread.

Tolerating the fact that internet gurus make assumptions about you whenever you ask a question is just part of this game. Today I let it get under my skin. And now I've sat here for thirty minutes typing like a dumbass instead of doing my job. Goddamn the internet. :)
If you really think what I said was ignorant then you are totally missing the point. The reason I posted in this thread was because of one main reason, CONCERN for HER safety. Iím no forum police but I am a female with a fair share of experience and knowledge with my own body as well as many I have worked with on and off line. I donít judge people or jump to assumptions, I am clearly going off the posts you put up here. Maybe it was your approach and if you came in here stating her current stats, diet and training along with what her goals are and asking what her options could be, it would be a different outcome. But either way, with the answers given about her, sheís NOT ready to cross that line and itís clear. I wasnít born yesterday and I have done a fair share of simple as well as very complex cycles adjusted according to my goals. And I can assure you, there is nothing ďmanlyĒ about me even with all the cycles that I have ďexperimentedĒ with, just to make that clear and get it out of the way. Women and AAS isnít like men running them. Itís a totally different ball game. Even bloods will not help her in many cases if something goes wrongÖ Iíve seen that in some where the husband was a hero and decided to pin his wife with test because he wanted her sex drive boosted or giving her additional 2 or 3mg (yes I said 2 or 3mg) and it took her overboard that she started getting facial hair and voice changing but sex drive non-existent. IT DOESNíT WORK THAT WAY!

*

YOU are completely set on her using AAS and she is CLEARLY not ready for it. Everything you have listed already gives that proof. SHE IS NOT READY. She needs to want to work out, AAS wonít make her. She needs to want things, you canít make her do it nor will the AAS make her do anything. You donít even know her true goals, sounds like sheís perfectly happy being a cardio bunnyÖ itís all talking about how you want her to keep up or not be left behind, if that sounds better to you.

*

This is no miracle drug that will do whatever you think it will do for her. And even in the simple sex drive aspect of things, it may not even affect her in that way! I know several women in their late 30ís and older who use test for the well-being benefit of it and some to add more size and they didnít *get the side of increased sex drive but more drive, aggressiveness and some even less moody or vice versa. Some are not even interested in sex. SEX DRIVE is a MENTAL thing more so than a side effect. You keep referring how youíre a dude and she will not be able to keep up because even naturally you have an advantage. You need to get over yourself and focus on your own goals, maybe even take it down a few notches as what you described isnít healthy in this post. Donít drag your wife down with you, especially if she isnít fully motivated to go that route. AAS arenít the answer at this point.

*

Sure, learn all you can but there is no reason for her to use any of it right now. Maybe down the road once she actually wants it for the right reasons. You say you donít care how she looks or that she wonít look how you want her to look! ARE YOU FOR REAL!? That is totally ignorant and disrespectful. *I doubt youíre perfect!

*

And I never said you canít learn about it. What I said is SHE needs to be the one learning and wanting it as badly as you. Just like a marriage, it IS a two-way street. Fine learn together so you get an idea of what to expect but donít take that away from her. And youíre no genius that you need to make your wife sound so stupid that she couldnít read a simple write up on what AAS or hormone fluctuations do to a female or even follow several female logs on various easily accessible forums. I am sure she is capable of reading and comprehension. Besides, she could relate is much better than you (a dude) can!

*

Again, she can google ANAVAR and read about it. Itís not rocket science. She should know what she is putting in her body. While she is at it, she should learn that it is also often faked so grabbing a quick test for $20 would be helpful so she knows she has the legit stuff. Things that a guy typically doesnít think of. Yes, we can use all kinds of compounds but knowing that you arenít using DBOL or WINNY instead of ANAVAR will explain a lot of her symptoms and she will learn what to expect ďfeelsĒ wise from each. And this brings me to this AGAINÖ she isnít ready to use AAS. She needs to want to put in the work on all aspects of this lifestyle, it wonít magically happen just by taking the AAS or any other supplement. Altering her hormones will not make her a sex bunny, it could go the total oppositeÖ so I guess, be careful what you wish for.

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nice2fit
04-12-2017, 11:45 AM
Thanks you guys. :-) First of all, I'm the researcher in the family. If anyone will have a thorough grasp of the science involved it will be me. We often joke in my family about me being a German (uptight, obsessive, meticulous) and my wife being a hippie. (laid-back, free-spirited, creative thinker). I often will thoroughly digest a complicated subject and then give my wife the Cliff Notes version with my annotations. :-). As far as diet and exercise are concerned, we're both in the same boat more or less. We were both very active through our 20s and early 30s and then somewhere around kid number three and the economic crisis of 2008 we both kind of let things go in favor of what, at the time, seems like more pressing concerns. We're both tired of feeling old and ready to get it together.

My real concern is that I have always been a fast Gainer and fanatically devoted to physical fitness as long as I keep that as my primary focus. Combine that with the fact that I'm going on TRT and I'm about to have the testosterone levels of a 22-year-old kid, and I'm very concerned about leaving my wife in the dust.

I am mainly doing the research to show her that I'm just as interested in her progress as I am in mine.

I've been reading about Anavar, and apparently this hormone is considered to be gentler for women and less prone to virilization. This makes sense, but I have only read blanket statements without any actual data to support why this is the case. Also many cutting cycles for women seem to include Anavar, clenbuterol and Nolvadex at the end.

I'm interested if anyone can link me an article that discusses the exact mechanism by which Anavar limits virilization, And I would also like to know why Nolvadex is typically included at the end of a cycle. I wouldn't think that it will be necessary for a woman to limit estrogen in this way.



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This is a read I believe will help you with your research. I'm huge into diet and am sure you know that is the #1 factor in any body transformation.
Good luck :)

http://www.steroidabuse.com/Anavar-for-Women.html


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judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 11:50 AM
If you really think what I said was ignorant then you are totally missing the point. The reason I posted in this thread was because of one main reason, CONCERN for HER safety. Iím no forum police but I am a female with a fair share of experience and knowledge with my own body as well as many I have worked with on and off line. I donít judge people or jump to assumptions, I am clearly going off the posts you put up here. Maybe it was your approach and if you came in here stating her current stats, diet and training along with what her goals are and asking what her options could be, it would be a different outcome. But either way, with the answers given about her, sheís NOT ready to cross that line and itís clear. I wasnít born yesterday and I have done a fair share of simple as well as very complex cycles adjusted according to my goals. And I can assure you, there is nothing ďmanlyĒ about me even with all the cycles that I have ďexperimentedĒ with, just to make that clear and get it out of the way. Women and AAS isnít like men running them. Itís a totally different ball game. Even bloods will not help her in many cases if something goes wrongÖ Iíve seen that in some where the husband was a hero and decided to pin his wife with test because he wanted her sex drive boosted or giving her additional 2 or 3mg (yes I said 2 or 3mg) and it took her overboard that she started getting facial hair and voice changing but sex drive non-existent. IT DOESNíT WORK THAT WAY!

*

YOU are completely set on her using AAS and she is CLEARLY not ready for it. Everything you have listed already gives that proof. SHE IS NOT READY. She needs to want to work out, AAS wonít make her. She needs to want things, you canít make her do it nor will the AAS make her do anything. You donít even know her true goals, sounds like sheís perfectly happy being a cardio bunnyÖ itís all talking about how you want her to keep up or not be left behind, if that sounds better to you.

*

This is no miracle drug that will do whatever you think it will do for her. And even in the simple sex drive aspect of things, it may not even affect her in that way! I know several women in their late 30ís and older who use test for the well-being benefit of it and some to add more size and they didnít *get the side of increased sex drive but more drive, aggressiveness and some even less moody or vice versa. Some are not even interested in sex. SEX DRIVE is a MENTAL thing more so than a side effect. You keep referring how youíre a dude and she will not be able to keep up because even naturally you have an advantage. You need to get over yourself and focus on your own goals, maybe even take it down a few notches as what you described isnít healthy in this post. Donít drag your wife down with you, especially if she isnít fully motivated to go that route. AAS arenít the answer at this point.

*

Sure, learn all you can but there is no reason for her to use any of it right now. Maybe down the road once she actually wants it for the right reasons. You say you donít care how she looks or that she wonít look how you want her to look! ARE YOU FOR REAL!? That is totally ignorant and disrespectful. *I doubt youíre perfect!

*

And I never said you canít learn about it. What I said is SHE needs to be the one learning and wanting it as badly as you. Just like a marriage, it IS a two-way street. Fine learn together so you get an idea of what to expect but donít take that away from her. And youíre no genius that you need to make your wife sound so stupid that she couldnít read a simple write up on what AAS or hormone fluctuations do to a female or even follow several female logs on various easily accessible forums. I am sure she is capable of reading and comprehension. Besides, she could relate is much better than you (a dude) can!

*

Again, she can google ANAVAR and read about it. Itís not rocket science. She should know what she is putting in her body. While she is at it, she should learn that it is also often faked so grabbing a quick test for $20 would be helpful so she knows she has the legit stuff. Things that a guy typically doesnít think of. Yes, we can use all kinds of compounds but knowing that you arenít using DBOL or WINNY instead of ANAVAR will explain a lot of her symptoms and she will learn what to expect ďfeelsĒ wise from each. And this brings me to this AGAINÖ she isnít ready to use AAS. She needs to want to put in the work on all aspects of this lifestyle, it wonít magically happen just by taking the AAS or any other supplement. Altering her hormones will not make her a sex bunny, it could go the total oppositeÖ so I guess, be careful what you wish for.

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Dear GearGoddess.

My wife has no issues with reading comprehension but you clearly do. This post is filled with the most epic bullshit. I'll be back when I have time to break this shit down point by point and demolish it. In the meantime, rest assured that I have no interest in pursuing this as anything other than as an interesting diversionary research project. So thanks for your concern for my wife's safety, but as you can see your input on this matter is no longer required from a safety standpoint.

No one has ever made me lose my temper like this on a fucking Internet forum before. You're either the most highly skilled troll in the history of fucking middle earth, deliberately miss reading things that I've written, or a fucking idiot.

Knock knock. Who's there? Go fuck yourself.



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judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 11:52 AM
This is a read I believe will help you with your research. I'm huge into diet and am sure you know that is the #1 factor in any body transformation.
Good luck :)

http://www.steroidabuse.com/Anavar-for-Women.html


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Thanks. I'll take a look at this when I'm once again capable of rational thought. :-)


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GearGoddess
04-12-2017, 11:56 AM
I would say from what I read, I have/had the same opinion from your posts that geargoddess does. While you might not have meant things to come off the way you did, I read it how geargoddess answered it.
So to ask for opinions and then get upset from how people answer based off what you have posted (whether it was meant the way it reads or not) is probably not going to help you.
I have no ideas of the workings of a woman to help you. But you have one trying to and you're pissing all over her instead of listening because you don't like the answer.


Well, without an interest in intense resistance training, she is not going to keep up with you. So give her a kiss on the forehead, tell he she is doing great, and drop this stupid idea about AAS for her. Utter nonsense.

- - - Updated - - -

And drop the nasty attitude toward GearGoddess, she knows more about female hormone manipulation than you are capable of learning in the next year.
Thank you for the kind words you two, totally appreciate it.

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GearGoddess
04-12-2017, 12:05 PM
Dear GearGoddess.

My wife has no issues with reading comprehension but you clearly do. This post is filled with the most epic bullshit. I'll be back when I have time to break this shit down point by point and demolish it. In the meantime, rest assured that I have no interest in pursuing this as anything other than as an interesting diversionary research project. So thanks for your concern for my wife's safety, but as you can see your input on this matter is no longer required from a safety standpoint.

No one has ever made me lose my temper like this on a fucking Internet forum before. You're either the most highly skilled troll in the history of fucking middle earth, deliberately miss reading things that I've written, or a fucking idiot.

Knock knock. Who's there? Go fuck yourself.



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Don't bother. I'm done with you. I can't and won't help stupid ignorant disrespectful assholes. So you're the troll.

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judgmentalist
04-12-2017, 12:22 PM
Don't bother. I'm done with you. I can't and won't help stupid ignorant disrespectful assholes. So you're the troll.

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Lol! See what I mean about reading comprehension? I already stated clearly that I no longer have any desire for your help. I even went so far as to assure you that my wife's health and safety were not in danger so you would not feel the need to carry on our of your deep concern for her well-being.

Before I lost my shit all I said was that you are making ignorant assumptions based on no information, which you are - or were, excuse me, assuming that this conversation is over.

You on the other hand, have insulted me, my wife, made negative comments about my marriage, my feelings and intentions toward my wife and so on. Honestly if an adult human male were standing in front of me talking that shit I would knock em down.

All sarcasm and anger aside, is English not your first language? If so that is the only thing I can come up with that might make this farce understandable.

For what it's worth, when I come to this thread to make one final attempt to right this ship, it will be for my own peace of mind, not out of any expectation of a reasonable dialogue.

Mods, I apologize for losing my shit. If this thread violates the TOS please move it to The Pit.


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malfeasance
04-13-2017, 08:48 AM
I'll be back when I have time to break this shit down point by point and demolish it.
I thought you were super busy and worked 20 hours a day?

:D

Drop it already.

elit3keraed
04-15-2017, 10:21 AM
Just because I am curious if this shit storm will get any worse.

Giving your wife test to help her keep up is like giving your kids test so they can keep up. Utterly batshit insane. You don't go out and buy a tank to deal with the gopher in your backyard. Add a little of this and a little of that to take care of the problem. Don't wipe out your whole neighborhood.

My wife has run a ton of shit. She also has dealt with a ton of sides, some permanent and some temporary. You're not going to find a "mechanism of action" that keeps anavar from virilization. Its the Anabolic Androgenic ratio that is what somewhat determines sides. But that being said dosage will play a huge part. My wife's voice changed on 15mg of var a day. But aside from some increased endurance and minor fat loss, she got very little out of it...and she is an eat, sleep, breathe powerlifter/bodybuilder.

She has also worked up to 100mg of test prop a day when prepping for a meet. I think her "heaviest" was 50mg of prop, 75mg tren a and 50mg mast with 100mg TNE shot preworkout about a month out. She's no stranger to ridiculous dosages to help bring her higher up, but again, weights is a way of life to her, not a "job" fun is hitting her max squat, bench and deadlift all in 1 gym session.


If your wife is curious, she should be the one on here learning. Not you. Not trying to be a dick, but it's really how it should be. I was only able to help my wife so much before she had to figure it out because I am not in her body feeling the side effects. I am not the one dealing with bloat or libido issues or aches and pains. It's not to say my experience with compounds can't be of assistance, like dealing with tren heartburn or hunger pangs on npp, but ultimately only she knows whats going on with herself.


If she isn't willing to attack the weights, odds are she isn't willing to accept the sides and consequences of AAS. Even var. If she is "up there" age wise, adding an iu of hgh could be of some benefit, but that's really the only "drug" that would fit in the situation.

chocolatemalt
04-15-2017, 11:11 AM
I find this slamming of judgementalist to be a little silly... not seeing anything in his research that indicates he's going to abuse the wife or deceive her with unwanted hormones pushed on her. Feels like paranoia to me, and his research efforts on the subject here are clearly in the upper 99% of what we usually see. He'll soon be more informed than most of us just by sheer force of will.

If his wife is "up there" in years she may well benefit from HRT just like most of us, and T supplementation (alongside progesterone) is the latest recommended approach for women since it will also boost estrogen via aromatization. Whether this is a normal HRT dose or something higher for athletic purposes is another question depending on her goals.

Judge, why not bring the wife on here with her own account to argue her side of the story? :D Been done many times in the forum.

BTC
04-21-2017, 04:09 PM
My wife is on self prescribed trt. Best decision she's made (her words). Sounds like your wife just wants to be "fit" and aas is the last thing in the world she needs

judgmentalist
04-21-2017, 04:11 PM
I thought you were super busy and worked 20 hours a day?

:D

Drop it already.

Dropped :)


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Southbeach1
05-08-2017, 07:30 AM
OK so my wife is feeling a little left out of the loop now that I'm getting back on track with eating healthy and working out and of course I'm going to be on TRT/possibly other stuff as well.

I've been reading about the effects of a small amount of exogenous testosterone on a woman. I have considered the possibility of helping my wife kickstart her return to a healthy lifestyle this way. I've talk to her about it a little, That it would make it easier for her to burn a little fat, build a little muscle, have more energy etc. etc. she seems interested.

Of course, this would have the added benefit of making her more favorably disposed toward certain other extracurricular activities.

It would also be nice if I could get her to be obsessed with working out so she wouldn't give me such a hard time about being at the gym all the time. :)

What do you guys think?


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I think anyone that would give their wife testosterone is either crazy or secretly gay and really wants to be married to a male.

judgmentalist
05-08-2017, 07:51 AM
I think anyone that would give their wife testosterone is either crazy or secretly gay and really wants to be married to a male.

Prior to this moment I have not personally had enough interaction with you to bother forming an opinion as to your character or potential value to the species. Having said that, I have read enough of your posts to know you either like arguing or can't figure out how to avoid it. Either way, I have no interest in providing this evening's entertainment.

On a related note, I recently figured out how to unsubscribe from threads that have proven to be... less than useful.


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Southbeach1
05-08-2017, 08:51 AM
Prior to this moment I have not personally had enough interaction with you to bother forming an opinion as to your character or potential value to the species. Having said that, I have read enough of your posts to know you either like arguing or can't figure out how to avoid it. Either way, I have no interest in providing this evening's entertainment.

On a related note, I recently figured out how to unsubscribe from threads that have proven to be... less than useful.


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It was a joke man relax.

Seriously though I don't see why you would want to give a female testosterone when there are so many other ways she could reach her goals. So many safer compounds she could use. I've been around this, I used to train, for years, with an IFBB pro bodybuilder who was female. I'll just tell you it's really easy to take a little too much and get irreversible side effects that I don't think she wants. I'm just saying do it another way, she can reach her goals and stay totally how she is now if done right. Remember, these compounds like Test, Deca, even winstrol(which many women believe is OK to take but really isnt) change the face, the way she looks, talks. Just be safe all I'm saying.

Unless she wants to be Ms. Olympia then it's another story totally.

judgmentalist
05-08-2017, 10:00 AM
It was a joke man relax.

Seriously though I don't see why you would want to give a female testosterone when there are so many other ways she could reach her goals. So many safer compounds she could use. I've been around this, I used to train, for years, with an IFBB pro bodybuilder who was female. I'll just tell you it's really easy to take a little too much and get irreversible side effects that I don't think she wants. I'm just saying do it another way, she can reach her goals and stay totally how she is now if done right. Remember, these compounds like Test, Deca, even winstrol(which many women believe is OK to take but really isnt) change the face, the way she looks, talks. Just be safe all I'm saying.

Unless she wants to be Ms. Olympia then it's another story totally.

The first article I read the first time female AAS use became of interest to me mentioned testosterone. It seemed to be very positive about the results a tiny amount of testosterone could produce in women. It did not discuss any other substances. Since I first posted this thread my perspective has changed quite a bit.


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GarlicChicken
05-08-2017, 10:59 AM
Many women have very low testosterone levels these days, same problem men are having. My fiancee is a good example. She was testing consistently at 7ng/dL, which is way too low for her age. Her psych doctor was actually the one that brought the subject up originally. Turns out she's really low, which explained many of the symptoms she had, just like men do with low T. Of course her regular doctor is an idiot and won't prescribe any testosterone because, you know, it's the devil. So we started her on 10mg test Cyp a week. Symptoms reversed, metabolism went from 0 to 100, more energy, all the ways you should feel when you're normal. It's a night and day difference.

Now this isn't something I suggest people do unless they've put in a ton of research and know how to test levels during different points in a woman's cycle. Also, higher than a little over standard range is what causes all the side effects. She has literally none except a crazy sex drive

Southbeach1
05-08-2017, 11:14 AM
Many women have very low testosterone levels these days, same problem men are having. My fiancee is a good example. She was testing consistently at 7ng/dL, which is way too low for her age. Her psych doctor was actually the one that brought the subject up originally. Turns out she's really low, which explained many of the symptoms she had, just like men do with low T. Of course her regular doctor is an idiot and won't prescribe any testosterone because, you know, it's the devil. So we started her on 10mg test Cyp a week. Symptoms reversed, metabolism went from 0 to 100, more energy, all the ways you should feel when you're normal. It's a night and day difference.

Now this isn't something I suggest people do unless they've put in a ton of research and know how to test levels during different points in a woman's cycle. Also, higher than a little over standard range is what causes all the side effects. She has literally none except a crazy sex drive
This makes sense. If your going to give a female testosterone you have to watch the numbers I suppose not let them get too high.

chocolatemalt
05-08-2017, 01:36 PM
Many women have very low testosterone levels these days, same problem men are having. My fiancee is a good example. She was testing consistently at 7ng/dL, which is way too low for her age. Her psych doctor was actually the one that brought the subject up originally. Turns out she's really low, which explained many of the symptoms she had, just like men do with low T. Of course her regular doctor is an idiot and won't prescribe any testosterone because, you know, it's the devil. So we started her on 10mg test Cyp a week. Symptoms reversed, metabolism went from 0 to 100, more energy, all the ways you should feel when you're normal. It's a night and day difference.

Now this isn't something I suggest people do unless they've put in a ton of research and know how to test levels during different points in a woman's cycle. Also, higher than a little over standard range is what causes all the side effects. She has literally none except a crazy sex drive

Where did that 10mg/wk put her, ng/dl wise? Twice a week pins just like men?

I have a friend who may benefit... natty levels are already middle of the range but she may feel better at the higher end -- would apply to E2 as well via aromatization, of course. No virilization or BB-level muscle mass desired though.

GarlicChicken
05-08-2017, 04:01 PM
Where did that 10mg/wk put her, ng/dl wise? Twice a week pins just like men?

I have a friend who may benefit... natty levels are already middle of the range but she may feel better at the higher end -- would apply to E2 as well via aromatization, of course. No virilization or BB-level muscle mass desired though.

~10mg a week split into two pins gets her at right around 80ng three days post injection. Now I say "about" 10mg/week because honestly, it's really difficult to be real precise without cutting the gear down lol. She's using a bottle of my prescription test cyp now, which is dosed at 200mg/mL. We bumped her up a little bit to probably 15/wk a couple weeks ago. She knows she's pushing it a little but as long as there's no real sides she's okay with it. We haven't noticed anything thus far other than increased metabolism and pumps. It's amazing the results she gets from such a small amount.

I just got some sterile filtered MCT oil, vials, and filters in so we can cut the concentration down at least halfway. That way we can dose much more accurately. Even with a slin pin there's a lot of variance for a woman, since 2-3mg extra can make a night and day difference.

The only side effects she really gets is the sex drive and a little bit oily skin. Not much though. Just be careful and really monitor her blood work, full panel. Gotta keep an eye on the aromatization and where the rest of her hormones are sitting. We've been really lucky and haven't had her estrogen or prolactin rise hardly at all. Her estrone went up a little bit but not enough to cause problems. Her cycle finally normalized to once a month instead of twice a month, so that was a other huge benefit for her. We're convinced her test was the problem the whole time

chocolatemalt
05-08-2017, 05:29 PM
~10mg a week split into two pins gets her at right around 80ng three days post injection. Now I say "about" 10mg/week because honestly, it's really difficult to be real precise without cutting the gear down lol. She's using a bottle of my prescription test cyp now, which is dosed at 200mg/mL. We bumped her up a little bit to probably 15/wk a couple weeks ago. She knows she's pushing it a little but as long as there's no real sides she's okay with it. We haven't noticed anything thus far other than increased metabolism and pumps. It's amazing the results she gets from such a small amount.

I just got some sterile filtered MCT oil, vials, and filters in so we can cut the concentration down at least halfway. That way we can dose much more accurately. Even with a slin pin there's a lot of variance for a woman, since 2-3mg extra can make a night and day difference.

The only side effects she really gets is the sex drive and a little bit oily skin. Not much though. Just be careful and really monitor her blood work, full panel. Gotta keep an eye on the aromatization and where the rest of her hormones are sitting. We've been really lucky and haven't had her estrogen or prolactin rise hardly at all. Her estrone went up a little bit but not enough to cause problems. Her cycle finally normalized to once a month instead of twice a month, so that was a other huge benefit for her. We're convinced her test was the problem the whole time

Great info thx! Good story about making it work for her as well... so common for sex hormones to change someone's whole world.

If I'm supervising this change for my friend, I think the ceiling will be something more like 50 ng/dl *peak* and maybe 3x/wk for constancy. Cautious approach for sure. Also may stick with SQ delivery. And thanks for point out the dilution issue... this sounds like a place where weaker 100mg/ml gear would be a blessing. Actually, 25mg/ml would be awesome lol.

Southbeach1
05-09-2017, 05:15 AM
~10mg a week split into two pins gets her at right around 80ng three days post injection. Now I say "about" 10mg/week because honestly, it's really difficult to be real precise without cutting the gear down lol. She's using a bottle of my prescription test cyp now, which is dosed at 200mg/mL. We bumped her up a little bit to probably 15/wk a couple weeks ago. She knows she's pushing it a little but as long as there's no real sides she's okay with it. We haven't noticed anything thus far other than increased metabolism and pumps. It's amazing the results she gets from such a small amount.

I just got some sterile filtered MCT oil, vials, and filters in so we can cut the concentration down at least halfway. That way we can dose much more accurately. Even with a slin pin there's a lot of variance for a woman, since 2-3mg extra can make a night and day difference.

The only side effects she really gets is the sex drive and a little bit oily skin. Not much though. Just be careful and really monitor her blood work, full panel. Gotta keep an eye on the aromatization and where the rest of her hormones are sitting. We've been really lucky and haven't had her estrogen or prolactin rise hardly at all. Her estrone went up a little bit but not enough to cause problems. Her cycle finally normalized to once a month instead of twice a month, so that was a other huge benefit for her. We're convinced her test was the problem the whole time
Good info. My wife trains like a nut and is always asking me to put her on stuff I never would. I have given her anavar, t3, clen, and e/c/a. It sounds good actually, especially the sex drive part, lol. But I just can't take a chance like that with her. She's like in perfect shape already, well I think so, she want to be bigger. I'm trying to get her primo but I have to make sure first it's really Primo and not Test Prop or something. Anyone know a good source for good, definite primo ID owe you one if you pm me the info.

bigbal2943
07-01-2017, 06:55 AM
I stopped reading the rants. Does look to me like your trying to convince her to hop on the juice wagon for yourself tho. No disrespect. I'd love for my wife to take some test and have her libido go through the roof and turn her into a gym rat. But i can't be doing that


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judgmentalist
07-01-2017, 07:24 AM
I stopped reading the rants. Does look to me like your trying to convince her to hop on the juice wagon for yourself tho. No disrespect. I'd love for my wife to take some test and have her libido go through the roof and turn her into a gym rat. But i can't be doing that


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FFS... nothing on the internet ever dies... she asked me about it. I don't know how much more clearly I can say this.


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