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Sierra2500hd
12-19-2016, 12:43 PM
Been a while since I've been on here brothers- I had a heart attack; 95% blockage in the left anterior descending artery. A Widowmaker. Was still lifting heavy and going strong when I had it. I survived 60 minutes without treatment including dying in the process and sustained a fair amount of heart damage that is fortunately not permanent. On the road to recovery and actually doing quite well. I'm right around 175lbs.

I'm sharing this as a possible reality that can hit anybody. I'm 47 and was and still am in fantastic shape both strength training and cardio. I have a 100/60 BP and a 100 cholesterol score. It was family history that did me in. I survived it because I was in good shape. Widowmaker heart attacks usually kill quickly. Now currently taking Lipitor, Plavix, Coreg, Zestril. Doing an hour of cardio every morning as part of rehab and killing it! Also doing high volume low-medium weight lifting. I can probably go back to heavy in 4-6 weeks after some progressive tests. The cardiologist said my training saved me. It built collateral vessels which helped move oxygenated blood during the attack. He intends to get me back to where I was soon.

Be familiar with the symptoms- I ignored them because I thought I was just injured. Looking back it was coming on to me for a long time.

I'm primarily a TRT guy at 200mg test-c/week. I've done 3 relatively mild cycles in the last 2 1/2 years.

I encourage anyone in their 40's and up to at least get a calcium body scan for plaque buildup. It's cheap usually $100 or less. This will tell you if you have blockages that need to be addressed. Don't forget about lipid scores when doing labs. Health always needs to come first.

Here's some post heart attack pics. I'm not body building so much as lifting for strength.

Skinnyguy180
12-19-2016, 12:46 PM
Glad to hear you survived! Good luck man.

Sierra2500hd
12-19-2016, 12:54 PM
It was a pretty brutal experience pain-wise!

gdawg
12-19-2016, 12:58 PM
Damn Sierra I was wondering where you been . Man sorry to hear this but glad you are recovering . Like he said boys at least pay for the lipid profile when you get the FHP . Small price . Just got the full male panel 2 weeks ago , more money but way more info.

frank zazz
12-19-2016, 01:02 PM
Glad you are alright big guy

GGG
12-19-2016, 01:40 PM
Thanks for sharing your story bro!

Glad to have you here 💪

bc123jm
12-19-2016, 01:42 PM
damn man. welcome back

malfeasance
12-19-2016, 01:47 PM
Be familiar with the symptoms- I ignored them because I thought I was just injured. Looking back it was coming on to me for a long time. What are the symptoms with which we should be familiar? Why did you think they were from an injury?


I encourage anyone in their 40's and up to at least get a calcium body scan for plaque buildup. It's cheap usually $100 or less. A hundred bucks? Can you tell us any more about this scan?

Skip Foursome
12-19-2016, 01:49 PM
What are the symptoms with which we should be familiar? Why did you think they were from an injury?

A hundred bucks? Can you tell us any more about this scan?

Google life line screening. Can can test all three major arteries plus an EKG for $150- $180.

Best money I ever spent for piece of mind.

BabyOx
12-19-2016, 01:52 PM
Glad you got through it brother! Thanks for sharing your story.

Keltic
12-19-2016, 01:52 PM
Welcome back brother

HDgrowth
12-19-2016, 01:58 PM
Great info and a reminder for all of us! Glad you're doing well !

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malfeasance
12-19-2016, 02:01 PM
Google life line screening. Can can test all three major arteries plus an EKG for $150- $180.

Best money I ever spent for piece of mind.
Thanks, Skip.
UPDATE - I did not see the one he was talking about:

calcium body scan for plaque buildup
I did see a documentary where a doctor was talking about this scan which shows calcium buildup in the arteries around the heart. As noted by HDSierra, his blockage was in an artery at the heart. I'll keep looking.

malfeasance
12-19-2016, 02:12 PM
Apparently, this requires an actual CT scan of your heart.

https://consumer.healthday.com/vitamins-and-nutrition-information-27/high-cholesterol-health-news-359/calcium-scan-can-predict-premature-death-risk-study-says-701059.html

johnjohn
12-19-2016, 02:19 PM
Welcome back brother was wondering where you went. Hopefully your recovery will be speedy

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Skip Foursome
12-19-2016, 02:22 PM
Thanks, Skip.
UPDATE - I did not see the one he was talking about:

I did see a documentary where a doctor was talking about this scan which shows calcium buildup in the arteries around the heart. As noted by HDSierra, his blockage was in an artery at the heart. I'll keep looking.

Check this out.

http://www.lifelinescreening.com/What-We-Do/What-We-Screen-For/Carotid-Artery-Disease

Skip Foursome
12-19-2016, 02:25 PM
Thanks, Skip.
UPDATE - I did not see the one he was talking about:

I did see a documentary where a doctor was talking about this scan which shows calcium buildup in the arteries around the heart. As noted by HDSierra, his blockage was in an artery at the heart. I'll keep looking.

I may have confused things. I got the ultrasound for plaque not specifically calcium.

TripleOvertime
12-19-2016, 02:47 PM
Glad you are still here to tell the story. Take care of yourself bro.

GotTren?
12-19-2016, 03:05 PM
Dang brother! You survived the dead. That's awesome! God was looking out for you. Did u feel any symptoms at all leading to the heart attack


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BigPapaPump2015
12-19-2016, 03:21 PM
I also would like to know the signs that made you think you were injured. This is one of my main fears as it also is family history and took most the men in my family and they never took any AAS but were old school and loved alcohol and smoking so maybe I'm better off with AAS LoL


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HDgrowth
12-19-2016, 04:20 PM
I also would like to know the signs that made you think you were injured. This is one of my main fears as it also is family history and took most the men in my family and they never took any AAS but were old school and loved alcohol and smoking so maybe I'm better off with AAS LoL


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X2, I'd like to know those symptoms also.

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drealdeal
12-19-2016, 06:35 PM
A true blessing u are still here . Thank you for sharing this,an eye opener for sure.God bless.

chocolatemalt
12-19-2016, 10:17 PM
Thx for sharing details and glad to have you back Sierra. You said you felt the symptoms coming for some time in retrospect, what were those?

And yeah, genetics is a drag sometimes... even after all the diet, exercise, and other interventions, there's a lot of remaining risk profile that is still just genetic and there's no dodging it. We need more science and more genetic therapy! Onward to the future...

adikul
12-20-2016, 12:28 AM
Is this acne on your chest and shoulder

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suraonyx23
12-20-2016, 01:08 AM
Is this acne on your chest and shoulder

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Really? Your going to ask that when this man almost lost his life? Unbelievable oh and nice fucking first post

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adikul
12-20-2016, 01:33 AM
Really? Your going to ask that when this man almost lost his life? Unbelievable oh and nice fucking first post

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Lol, i know man. But he should listen to warnings given by body. Acne is one of them. So i asked and red blood count which is also a warning

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Dispense Quick
12-20-2016, 05:02 AM
prayers to you my friend, glad you made it through this. May i ask how you were feeling prior to the incident? did you have any abnormal chest pains while training? when your hear rate would elevate did you feel pressure in your chest or any sharp pains randomly?

ROID
12-20-2016, 05:17 AM
Just had a stress test done last week. Ekg and nuclear medicine to detect blockages.

I say if you've been using gear for more than a few yrs, are mid 30s and above, you should at least get a ekg done once per yr.

From this point on I'll get a stress test yearly.

Glad you made it through man. That's hella something to live through and be able to tell about.

MiSh
12-20-2016, 05:23 AM
Glad u survived and with us now
Stay healthy and safe
Scary as we get older
Best of luck Brotha

malfeasance
12-20-2016, 05:40 AM
I may have confused things. I got the ultrasound for plaque not specifically calcium.
I first saw this on a documentary. It's on Netflix. It's called "The Widowmaker."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/movies/review-the-widowmaker-a-heart-care-documentary.html?_r=0

The article will give you some idea of what the The Widowmaker is about. It's not a boring flick. You should check it out.

Sierra2500hd
12-20-2016, 06:43 AM
They are acne blemishes. I had an out break of acne when I first started TRT. It comes and goes occasionally. Interestingly, after the stent placement to open up the artery. My body started healing fast and the acne went away. One opinion is that my body wasn't purging out poison's efficiently due to reduced heart function the last couple years.

Zyglamail
12-20-2016, 07:07 AM
Heart disease is incredibly common and very easy to fix with supplements. Blockages occur for 2 major reasons, calcium or cholesterol.

Calcium collection in arties is easily reversed with proper nutritional supplementation of vit A, D and K.

Cholesterol clogging can happen regardless of your cholesterol levels so dont get lulled into thinking just because you have fine cholesterol levels that you are safe.

The truth of the matter is cholesterol doesnt stick to the walls of healthy arteries, it sticks to places in the arterial wall where the intum is exposed due to damage in the arterial wall. Its natures bandaid so to speak and the cholesterol falls away once the underlying arterial damage is healed. Vitamin C, lysine and proline are primary factors in collagen synthesis which is the primary material in arteries. Get a good 6+ grams a day of vit 2 and a couple grams each of proline and lysine and within 6 months most people can clear all arterial blockages related to cholesterol.

Sierra2500hd
12-20-2016, 07:22 AM
Thank you all for the well wishes and support. Here is how it started and I'll interject the retrospect. I was working out and just got done doing squats. I typically squat heavy even for a pre-workout warm up 4-5 times a week. I just got done doing a warm up finishing with 500 before moving on to a back and bicep day with a buddy of mine. When I was breaking down the rack, I started to hurt bad between my shoulder blades. It felt like I got hit with a hammer. I thought I pinched a disc with the bar, but didn't see how that happened seeing that I do this weight every day. I chalked it up to me being old. We started doing pull downs and the pain in my back got so bad I had to quit and go home. I tried stretching it out to no avail. I was sweating profusely to the point I was completely soaked which was odd because I was just warming up. I grabbed my stuff and went I bent over the pain went to my chest and I started getting disoriented from the severity of the pain. I'm still thinking injury at this point so I went home.

I was sweating so bad I took my clothes off as soon as I got in and rolled around on the floor in my bedroom trying to 'undo' what I thought was a pinch in my back between vertebra. My wife came in and looked at me on the floor and asked if I hurt myself again lol. I asked her to get a big ice pack and put it on my back, which she did. I was basically kneeling face down and the pain was getting worse and moving up to my neck and jaws. She questioned whether I was having a heart attack. Then I thought, maybe??? ...get me a couple aspirin just in case. I took those and went face down. Then everything started to fade away...the sounds were distant and I couldn't move or talk, but I could think. All I thought was Fuck! I really am having a heart attack and it's too late. It's all over. I blacked out after that. I have a horrible out of body experience I can detail at some other time.
Somehow, I regained consciousness and some of the pain backed off just enough for me to move as she was calling 911. Now, I was extremely disoriented and unaware likely due to oxygen deprivation. I got up and told her to hang up the phone and drive me and proceeded to walk out the door. Now, I'm totally naked except for socks. She's telling me to get dressed and I hear her but don't understand. She dresses me and takes me. On the way the pain comes back full force and I black out again prior to getting to the ER. I wake up again while they are wheeling me in and they do an ekg right away. I can see by the look on the guy's face it was bad and he runs out of the room and comes back in 10 seconds and says we are moving you and there will be a lot of people working on you. So it was, about 10 people working on me to stabilize me...kind of like out of a tv show.

After I was stable, I got moved to coronary and they prepped me for a catheterization. They performed this and found the blockage and stented it. I was disoriented for several days from a combination of the O2 deprivation and anesthesia. I had about 70 percent of the heart damaged in some way, but not permanent.

So what they told me when I came out of the first blackout or death, my heart kicked in to overdrive and shunted oxygenated blood through collateral vessels and it brought me around and bought me some time...it bought me about 12 minutes. It was 60 minutes total I went through this from the beginning of the symptoms until I got to the hospital. I'm expected to heal 100% and be back to doing what I was before.

Looking back and going in reverse this happened on a Monday. The previous Thursday I woke up early morning with a similar back and chest pain, but it went away in 10 minutes and I went back to sleep. I was raking leaves that weekend and had some chest pain but it went away every time I took a break. I was sweating profusely for about a year, not unlike when you take Tren except I wasn't at the time. My left arm always had what I thought was bicep tendon pain sometimes to the point of being excruciating. I dismissed anything that was pain and chalked it up to being part of the game when lifting and riding on that warrior mentality. Funny thing though, after they cleared the blockage that left arm pain went completely away! I had also been very fatigued for several months and had been taking naps at my desk at work and forcing myself to get through my workouts. I thought maybe I had a virus that was making me fatigued. All the signs were there...I dismissed them all as something else.

This year I've had a torn quadriceps and been in the hospital with rhabdomyolisis. In the past I've had a torn pec, 3 shoulder surgeries, 6 broken noses, my right eye ripped out, two hernia repairs, a broken L4 & L5 and a torn achilles tendon, not to mention semi frequent kidney stones. So I'm thinking injury or old age shit catching up to me.... My point is every one here is the same- driven and grinding it out and dealing with pain and possibly ignoring warning signs.

Be aware of: pain between the shoulder blades, radiating pain in the chest and left arm. Pain that goes up your neck and your jaws.

Sierra2500hd
12-20-2016, 07:26 AM
Zyglamail- good info and true from what I've come to learn. I have low cholesterol and low bp which is why I didn't give heart issues much thought. Triglycerides are what rough up the inside of the arteries and that's where cholesterol or clots can stick, much like taking sand paper to rough up a surface so you can get paint or whatever to stick better.

Great input on the vitamins, all of which I've added as well as part of my regiment.

Zyglamail
12-20-2016, 07:45 AM
Zyglamail- good info and true from what I've come to learn. I have low cholesterol and low bp which is why I didn't give heart issues much thought. Triglycerides are what rough up the inside of the arteries and that's where cholesterol or clots can stick, much like taking sand paper to rough up a surface so you can get paint or whatever to stick better.

Great input on the vitamins, all of which I've added as well as part of my regiment.

Glad to hear you pulled through and are on the mend.

Honestly I think even the medical establishment importance on Triglycerides is way overstated. Countries with the highest cholesterol levels have the lowest occurrence of cardiac death. Its by and large a selling point for statins, which cause more harm than good and have proven time and time again to do nothing for longevity.

On that same note I am sure the docs have you on a slew of meds, beta blockers and who knows what. These can all be quite damaging over time and have once again not proven effective at reducing occurrence of cardiac events. I never was tested for blockages but had arterial wall thickening and enlarged heart along with borderline heart failure ejection fraction but not outside whats acceptable for a someone who was a lifter for 30 years. I was able to jack up heart ejection fraction to mid-high normal, and reduce wall thickness to normal all with just supps, all verified with an echo. During this period I saw a 20% improvement in my cardio output at the gym as well.

I have no doubt part of my heart wall thickening was due to the heart having to work much harder due to stiff arterial walls at least if not some blockages to boot. It was all heart troubles for me that sent me heavily down the supplementation path to begin and I have made huge changes in my heart health as well as the heart health of family and friends with just supps. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have any questions. This shit is serious and scary but the solution is rather simple if people open their mind to it.

Sierra2500hd
12-20-2016, 07:56 AM
I agree with you that propaganda overstatement is likely occurring to support pharmaceuticals. Everyone I know who has taken statins has had a bad experience...

My EF was 35% due to damaged heart when I got out. I have an echocardiogram scheduled for this Thursday and hoping it has improved to 55%. Ultimately, 75% EF would be exceptional down the road. They indicated I did not suffer from any thickening or enlargement. I lift very heavy, but have only been doing this type of lifting for 2 1/2 years. They stated I would be on all meds likely 1 year. I intend to supplement as well and besides vitamins and taking coq10 currently. I've got some hawthorne berry along the way. I'd like to see another thread started with a focus on heart healthy supplements and would like to get some direction from you.

bc123jm
12-20-2016, 08:49 AM
wow. that story was some crazy shit man.

Skip Foursome
12-20-2016, 08:57 AM
I first saw this on a documentary. It's on Netflix. It's called "The Widowmaker."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/movies/review-the-widowmaker-a-heart-care-documentary.html?_r=0

The article will give you some idea of what the The Widowmaker is about. It's not a boring flick. You should check it out.

I read that article. Very interesting how doctors do not want the scan. My doctor encouraged me to get the scan. And my comment is why not? This is preventative health care.

Also, someone correct me if I am wrong, but plaque is the precursor to calcium build up? If that is the case then the ultrasound for plaque makes sense to me.

EDIT: I am at my computer today so I was able to find the link for the scan I got:

http://www.lifelinescreening.com/campaigns/ppc/heart-screening-hc-139-20160222?sourcecd=WCPE007&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTURFeU4yTXpOVGd3TUdVdyIsInQiOiJHaU ZwbEF2REZHajRHYUJKWE1vbXY0aU5SdGpWTnFyVkRNVWtweTZs YXBFZVpPZDhiU3hMZzR2Slwvd2wzTEQrdGJkVkVVS0Vqek9kdT hjNDJQaUZuZWk3Rk1JSUpNWTRPV0V5RDRieVdadDQ9In0%3D

malfeasance
12-20-2016, 09:58 AM
Sierra2500HD, what sort of diet and exercise has your doctor prescribed for now?

Sierra2500hd
12-20-2016, 12:22 PM
My diet wasn't all that bad to begin with otherwise I wouldn't have low BP and Cholesterol numbers. However, my Triglycerides were also about 100 and they wan't that number to be down at 50 for me since I am pre-disposed. Medication will cut it down 30%-50%. They want me to get knowledgeable about the 'Heart Healthy' diets. They didn't discourage me from much, but to consider replacing things with substitutes. For example: olive oil butter instead of traditional butter. Egg beaters instead of traditional eggs. Etc. If I want to eat steak or ground beef make sure it's as lean as possible.

I don't have to make as radical a change as some. I am increasing my fish oil, olive oil, coq10 intake.

On the exercise front he seemed to be comfortable in the longer prognosis with trying to get me back to the weight training I was doing, with an increase in cardio. Right now, they have me on 6 days a week at an hour of cardio every morning. I'm also back to what I would call moderate weight circuit training. They aren't ready for me to go heavy until they can confirm my heart has healed and my ejection fraction is up where they want it over 55%.

My cardiac rehab regiment is far more intense than anyone else's where I go. Most guys there are barely moving and much older. They are pushing me like it was cross-fit. The medication gets to me sometimes and I get stiffness and cramping in my legs.


Sierra2500HD, what sort of diet and exercise has your doctor prescribed for now?

Sierra2500hd
12-20-2016, 12:26 PM
Great input and support on this thread! I certainly appreciate the knowledge that has been communicated by our members. It is great additional learning for myself and everyone!

Zyglamail
12-21-2016, 04:14 AM
My diet wasn't all that bad to begin with otherwise I wouldn't have low BP and Cholesterol numbers. However, my Triglycerides were also about 100 and they wan't that number to be down at 50 for me since I am pre-disposed. Medication will cut it down 30%-50%. They want me to get knowledgeable about the 'Heart Healthy' diets. They didn't discourage me from much, but to consider replacing things with substitutes. For example: olive oil butter instead of traditional butter. Egg beaters instead of traditional eggs. Etc. If I want to eat steak or ground beef make sure it's as lean as possible.

I don't have to make as radical a change as some. I am increasing my fish oil, olive oil, coq10 intake.

On the exercise front he seemed to be comfortable in the longer prognosis with trying to get me back to the weight training I was doing, with an increase in cardio. Right now, they have me on 6 days a week at an hour of cardio every morning. I'm also back to what I would call moderate weight circuit training. They aren't ready for me to go heavy until they can confirm my heart has healed and my ejection fraction is up where they want it over 55%.

My cardiac rehab regiment is far more intense than anyone else's where I go. Most guys there are barely moving and much older. They are pushing me like it was cross-fit. The medication gets to me sometimes and I get stiffness and cramping in my legs.

wow, the medical community is something else. These recommendations are still working on the ancient premise that consuming cholesterol raises cholesterol and it doesnt. Cholesterol is directly tied to insulin levels and why you always see people with high glucose levels to have high cholesterol levels, which is also why the high carb low fat diet they preach is exactly whats causing so many problems in the first place. They are still so ignorant and that its a shortage of nutrients ive previously mentioned and not the whole fat/cholesterol thing thats the cause of all this.

On a side rant, this really highlights the problem with the medical system in the USA. All this talk of health care reform is fucken meaningless unless the medical community stops taking direction from big pharma and starts getting back to the basics of what the human body needs to actually survive and thrive. Last time I checked there were no drugs on the list of essential nutrients yet so often nutrient intake and actual need is never discussed or even checked but the docs sure know the fucken MERC manual., So so sad! Until Docs start making sure people have the nutrients they need no fucken healthcare plan on the planet is going to prevent us from going broke trying to support it.

Sierra2500hd
12-21-2016, 11:53 AM
From discussion with some friends in the same boat which I think keys off what you just stated, sugars are the culprit and affect the triglyceride numbers as well causing the arteries to be more 'roughed' up and therefore more prone to plaque and clots to adhere to the arteries. The more we discuss, the more I want to get off these meds...

Zyglamail
12-21-2016, 01:05 PM
Im sure they have you on a beta blocker. There was just a study that followed 45,000 people (may have some numbers off a bit, going from memory) for a few years or more and documented the incidence rate of cardiac events between the group that was taking beta blockers and the group that refused them and there was no significant statistical difference in the number of cardiac events between the groups.

So much of the science behind these drugs is shoddy at best but because they do what they are marketed to do they have the Doc's and HMO's on board with prescribing them.

For example, statins DO lower cholesterol, but who cares since cholesterol isnt even the cause of clogged arteries, its a symptom and further more lowering cholesterol didnt have any effect in terms of reducing cardiac events.

In other words having high cholesterol made you no more prone to clogged arteries than someone with low-normal cholesterol. Morale of the story is that ANY cholesterol is going to stick to injured arteries regardless of your levels so lowering them with drugs is a mute point. Not to mention statins actually CAUSE heart damage because they deplete the body of CoQ10. Solution is to make sure you have an abundance of the essential nutrients required by your body to repair damaged tissue. Cardiovascular disease is nothing more than subclinical scurvy. The same degenerative damage exists in CVD that exists in full blown scurvy its just not readily visible to the naked eye like scurvy is with bleeding gums and connective tissue falling apart. The arterial walls suffer from the same collagen breakdown thats visible by full blown scurvy its just inside the body and the cholesterol is acting like a bandage on the interior of the arteries so we really dont know its happening. This kind of shit has been known since the 70's and big pharma (and lame forums like EF, which booted me for pushing optimal health by supplement use) continues to squash any significant research from hitting the journals because it would cost them and the health care industry billions.

Sierra2500hd
12-21-2016, 01:20 PM
These are all things going through my head considering I had fairly low cholesterol and BP. I'm doing the CoQ10 in addition to Niacin and Magnesium Citrate. I'd like to get your regiment and move toward a more supplemental approach.

I'm currently on Lipitor 40mg (Statin), Plavix 75mg (Blood Thinner), Coreg 6.25mg bid (Beta Blocker), Zestril 5mg (Ace Inhibitor)

I'm going to stop the statin for sure and wait until I know I'm fully healed and take a look at the rest.

Considering collagen breakdown is a factor and many AAS can contribute to reduced collagen, what can be done for increasing collagen? Add low dose anavar?

Zyglamail
12-21-2016, 01:21 PM
On the subject of beta clockers, here is a description from the mayo:


Beta blockers, also known as beta-adrenergic blocking agents, are medications that reduce your blood pressure. Beta blockers work by blocking the effects of the hormone epinephrine, also known as adrenaline.
When you take beta blockers, your heart beats more slowly and with less force, thereby reducing blood pressure. Beta blockers also help blood vessels open up to improve blood flow.

So ask yourself this, they have you on a drug to lower your BP (generally only if dose is high enough does it have any significant blood vessel relaxing effect) and block epinephrine to slow down your heart. If thats so critical then why are they putting you through the grinder of "crossfit like cardio sessions" (using your own verbage)?

I suppose there is something to be said about perhaps lowering stress on the heart for the majority of the day while only subjecting the heart to higher loads during training BUT once again if they have you doing pretty heavy cardio then I have to question the need for the beta blocker at all.

Couldnt one say take 3g of l-arginine a day and likely get the same effects on blood pressure and relaxed blood vessels? Also the vit C, lysine and proline will heal the ateries over a few months time causing them to become more pliable thereby lowering blood pressure if it was elevated to to stiffness. Also as the arteries heal any cholesterol collected internally to act as a bandaide will fall away increasing cross sectional size allowing for better/unrestricted flowe of blood.

By and large the medical community has been drinking the big pharma coolaid and their thier hands are tied because they have to follow AMA guidelines for what they prescribe for textbook cases and conditions like yours.

On an aside dont stop beta blockers cold turkey, real rough on the system, should taper off them. I personally quite cold turkey and it was a rough ride but I was on a low dose.

Sierra2500hd
12-21-2016, 01:29 PM
I've had all the same questions and you are validating them... I have an echo cardiogram tomorrow to determine current EF. Will post when I find out what that is. I started out at 35% post heart attack.

Zyglamail
12-21-2016, 02:02 PM
These are all things going through my head considering I had fairly low cholesterol and BP. I'm doing the CoQ10 in addition to Niacin and Magnesium Citrate. I'd like to get your regiment and move toward a more supplemental approach.

I'm currently on Lipitor 40mg (Statin), Plavix 75mg (Blood Thinner), Coreg 6.25mg bid (Beta Blocker), Zestril 5mg (Ace Inhibitor)

I'm going to stop the statin for sure and wait until I know I'm fully healed and take a look at the rest.

Considering collagen breakdown is a factor and many AAS can contribute to reduced collagen, what can be done for increasing collagen? Add low dose anavar?

The thing with collagen is that vit C is the primary ingredient for collagen synthesis. I know a lot of people and some studies seem to show that collagen sythnesis suffers when on AAS but as with most studies they usually dont look at the complete picture, just certain, very specific aspects. Most athletes dont eat a lot of fruits due to the sugars and have naturally low Vit C intakes. The FDA recommendations are a joke at best. Personally I think the collagen issues can easily be overcome by making sure you simply have the nutrients needed. Since im an old fuck now I could care less about size or looking imposing. I simply want unadultered strength so 90% of all my work is in the 6 rep range or less and I by and large just work compound movements, not a lot of fluff. Needless to say that day in and day out heavy lifting was taking its toll. I would have to rotate through various exercises due to sore joints and what not. One of the most pleasant benefits from starting my supplment regimine while trying to address my heart issues was that all my joint issues went away. With the exception of an occasional tweak here and there that everyone gets I can and have been hitting it hard and heavy for the last 3+ years while on TRT. So I think by and large, assuming one can tolerate a high enough dose of vit C (more on that below) the collagen issue while on AAS is of no concern.

The thing with Vit C is it acts as an electron donar to immune system cells. Its a very powerful anti toxin as well. So as we go through our days and are inundated with toxins from plastics and our environment it destroys the vit C we get leaving little left over for use in the body for other functions like collagen repair.

I know quite a few people who do regular INTRAVENOUS treatments of vit C at 200 GRAMS! Often followed by a smaller 50G dose at a slow drip to eliminate any sort of Herx reaction caused by the initial push.

Vit C is essentially nontoxic. Look at pretty much any other animal on the planet and they all make their own vit C, humans, guinea pigs and some birds are the only animals that dont. And when you look at just how much vit C animals produce and correct for size most create like 40 GRAMS or more a day when corrected to be the size of a normal human. We know its essential to human life, deprive someone of it they get scurvy and literally fall apart and the collagen based tissues in their body turn to goo and fall apart. Is man so special that we really only need 60mg a day when every when almost every other animal produces 100 to 1000 times that much?

So they have you on the statin to lower your triglyceride numbers, the blood thinner to reduce strain on the heart and the beta blockers to essentially do the same. Reduce heart output and relax the blood vessels to further ease the load on the heart.

It will take me a bit to put a complete list together for you but here is how I would start.

Get some ascorbic acid, gonna be the cheapest route and allows for more precise dosing while you find what you can tolerate. Runs about $15-20 a pound, less if you buy in larger qty. I recommend you start taking it on a weekend when your going to be chilling at home. The problem with vit C is if you take so much that enough makes it through your intestines and gets to your colon it will draw in water from the surrounding tissue and you will have serious urgency hit to the shitter. For me I can take 6grams a day in 3 divided doses. I usually just take a couple ounces of OJ and mix in 2g of the vit C and about 700mg of potassium bicarb (another great supplement, most people dont get anywhere near the 4700mg even the fda recommends) At the same time I take 500-1000mg of both lysine and proline.

Maybe start with a couple hundred mg ov vit c 3x a day and slowly build the dose up.

One thing that is very common when you start this is that as the arterial damage heals the cholesterol breaks free from the arterial walls (which is exactly what we want) but in doing so it will raise your cholesterol labs and can freak people out causing them to stop taking it. Generally speaking this phase will last for 3-6 months and then your cholesterol levels will drop back to normal if they were previously normal or if they were high will often drop nicely into the 180 (total) range.

The process doesnt happen overnight but as it does it will result in much more pliable and healthy arteries which in turn are not stiffened by buildup of cholesterol. So as you do this, if you stay on the prescribed drugs be careful that your blood pressure doesnt get to low. If you want to speed up the reduction/elimination of the other drugs consider adding L-arginine, start low and work up to 2grams 3x per day. Once again important to make sure it doesnt tank your BP especially if on the other meds designed to do the same. If under close doc supervision they should see your BP drop and lower the dose of your meds.

If your not in the south where you get sun year around consider 5000IU vit D and 25,000 vit A ( i like to use douglas labs for these 2 supps) and in addition Life Extensions Super K product which is a great mix of multiple types of vit K. These 3 supps work wonders in making sure that calcium in your body ends up where its supposed to and not calcifying your arteries. The vit K in the body is also important in blood coagulation so is often contraindicated for those on blood thinners since it reduces their effectiveness so you may want to consider waiting on this one. My guess is if you broach the issue with your doc he will say no. If thats the case and you calcium scores were decent then this step can probably wait. If you have elevated calcium scores then you are going to have to decide for yourself if you want to start the A/D/K because non of the drugs you listed will really help reduce calcification of your arteries.

Sierra2500hd
12-22-2016, 08:05 AM
I have similar goals...I'm not really much in to looks, but am focusing on strength. I'll start with your recommendations... I greatly appreciate the time you've taken to detail all of this.

Sierra2500hd
12-22-2016, 02:53 PM
Had the echo...I'm now at 50% EF and the cardiologist released me to resume full activity including heavy lifting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

s2h
12-22-2016, 09:20 PM
some real great points by Zyglamail ...imho your doctors are treating you with drugs that really have no positive effects too your condition....in fact statins are one of the worst drugs ever pushed by big pharma...the negative impact on your liver from statins is shown to be determental....

glad you made it through....were about the same age and i recently(in the last year)had a endovenous ablation to relieve the discomfort of varicose veins that had built up around my knee and calf....it was said to be a easy and minimal procedure....yeah there full of shit...it sucked...

Anyway pre-op i took a stress test, EKG and had a heart ultra sound done along with full labs.....as this tech is doig the ultra sound on my heart i was almost afraid to ask how things looked....i havent lived the life of a saint lets say...i finally asked after 5 minutes and she said i had the best looking heart she has ever seen for my age(probably die tonite now that i said that)...one thing i took daily after reading multiple studies on was and is Cialis....studies has shown Cialis inhibits the enzymes that cause the build up and blockage in the heart...i had been using Cialis for a few years prior to this lovely ablation...

Was it the reason my heart looked so dandy?..i cant say for sure...but it might be worth talking to your doctors about....fyi

Wish ya the best and glad you came out on the above ground side....

ROID
12-22-2016, 09:52 PM
Had the echo...I'm now at 50% EF and the cardiologist released me to resume full activity including heavy lifting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you referring to the ability of the left ventricle to pump out blood ?

chocolatemalt
12-23-2016, 10:05 AM
glad you made it through....were about the same age and i recently(in the last year)had a endovenous ablation to relieve the discomfort of varicose veins that had built up around my knee and calf....it was said to be a easy and minimal procedure....yeah there full of shit...it sucked...

Anyway pre-op i took a stress test, EKG and had a heart ultra sound done along with full labs.....as this tech is doig the ultra sound on my heart i was almost afraid to ask how things looked....i havent lived the life of a saint lets say...i finally asked after 5 minutes and she said i had the best looking heart she has ever seen for my age(probably die tonite now that i said that)...one thing i took daily after reading multiple studies on was and is Cialis....studies has shown Cialis inhibits the enzymes that cause the build up and blockage in the heart...i had been using Cialis for a few years prior to this lovely ablation...

Why not the less impacting procedures like laser or injections to get rid of the varicose veins? Not effective at that scale? I'm looking at a similar situation but probably far smaller than your own.

Lol, hopefully you didn't jinx yourself. How much cialis per day? One downside is it seems to cause flushing for me in the face, not a good look...

Zyglamail
12-23-2016, 10:23 AM
Are you referring to the ability of the left ventricle to pump out blood ?


EF=ejectionfraction.


web snippet.

"The ejection fraction ( EF ) refers to the amount, or percentage, of blood that is pumped (or ejected) out of the ventricles with each contraction. This percentage, orEF number, helps your health care provider determine if you have heart failure or other types of heart disease . A normal heart pumps just over half the heart's volume of blood with each beat a normal EF is 50 to 75 percent"

Zyglamail
12-23-2016, 10:36 AM
Had the echo...I'm now at 50% EF and the cardiologist released me to resume full activity including heavy lifting.


Thats great news! Stick with the supp list I provided and you will continue to improve greatly.

In addition to what I previously mentioned, consider adding the following:

iodine (lugols, I takee approx 50mg a day) and 200mcg selenium
Source naturtals(only brand I have tried id recommend) methylcobalamin sublingual 5mg take 1-2 per day let dissolve between cheek and gum, can add dibencozide as well.
50mg zinc
magnesium until stools become soft then back off a bit, take multiple times a day
fish oil - think you said you already take that
boron 3mg a day or so
potassium bicarbonate - get rough estimate of what you get from diet and them supplement to try and hit 5g a day or so. Split dose throughout the day
solgar niacin - just the normal stuff that causes a flush. Need to work up the dose but I found working up to 1000mg 3 times day to help cholesterol numbers a lot if thats something you need long term help with. 500-1000mg a day would be good if cholesterol isnt an issue.

As I previously mentioned, expect to see a short term spike in cholesterol numbers due to vit C, lysine/proline use, this is to be expected and normal as it breaks free from arterial walls as they heal. You coul add in some msm, glucosamine/chondrition if ya want, they will only help collagen synthesis, especially when on ample Vit C.

ProjectSwole
12-23-2016, 12:20 PM
some real great points by Zyglamail ...imho your doctors are treating you with drugs that really have no positive effects too your condition....in fact statins are one of the worst drugs ever pushed by big pharma...the negative impact on your liver from statins is shown to be determental....

glad you made it through....were about the same age and i recently(in the last year)had a endovenous ablation to relieve the discomfort of varicose veins that had built up around my knee and calf....it was said to be a easy and minimal procedure....yeah there full of shit...it sucked...

Anyway pre-op i took a stress test, EKG and had a heart ultra sound done along with full labs.....as this tech is doig the ultra sound on my heart i was almost afraid to ask how things looked....i havent lived the life of a saint lets say...i finally asked after 5 minutes and she said i had the best looking heart she has ever seen for my age(probably die tonite now that i said that)...one thing i took daily after reading multiple studies on was and is Cialis....studies has shown Cialis inhibits the enzymes that cause the build up and blockage in the heart...i had been using Cialis for a few years prior to this lovely ablation...

Was it the reason my heart looked so dandy?..i cant say for sure...but it might be worth talking to your doctors about....fyi

Wish ya the best and glad you came out on the above ground side....

S2h do you mind pointing me in the right direction of these studies, am very interested in research Into this myself. Cheers brother

WeGotTheMeats
12-26-2016, 04:31 AM
God Bless you and I hope you recover well and never go through that again. My grandmother passed from heart failure when she was 29 years old and my mother just had a heart attack this past summer. I know heart problems run in my family and It's scary situation knowing I don't take care of myself whatsoever. Good vibes your way brother.

ROID
12-26-2016, 05:04 AM
Im sure they have you on a beta blocker. There was just a study that followed 45,000 people (may have some numbers off a bit, going from memory) for a few years or more and documented the incidence rate of cardiac events between the group that was taking beta blockers and the group that refused them and there was no significant statistical difference in the number of cardiac events between the groups.

So much of the science behind these drugs is shoddy at best but because they do what they are marketed to do they have the Doc's and HMO's on board with prescribing them.

For example, statins DO lower cholesterol, but who cares since cholesterol isnt even the cause of clogged arteries, its a symptom and further more lowering cholesterol didnt have any effect in terms of reducing cardiac events.

In other words having high cholesterol made you no more prone to clogged arteries than someone with low-normal cholesterol. Morale of the story is that ANY cholesterol is going to stick to injured arteries regardless of your levels so lowering them with drugs is a mute point. Not to mention statins actually CAUSE heart damage because they deplete the body of CoQ10. Solution is to make sure you have an abundance of the essential nutrients required by your body to repair damaged tissue. Cardiovascular disease is nothing more than subclinical scurvy. The same degenerative damage exists in CVD that exists in full blown scurvy its just not readily visible to the naked eye like scurvy is with bleeding gums and connective tissue falling apart. The arterial walls suffer from the same collagen breakdown thats visible by full blown scurvy its just inside the body and the cholesterol is acting like a bandage on the interior of the arteries so we really dont know its happening. This kind of shit has been known since the 70's and big pharma (and lame forums like EF, which booted me for pushing optimal health by supplement use) continues to squash any significant research from hitting the journals because it would cost them and the health care industry billions.

You remember Fonz and Nelson ?

Circa 2000-2004

Zyglamail
12-26-2016, 06:39 AM
Of course.

malfeasance
12-27-2016, 07:24 AM
Had the echo...I'm now at 50% EF and the cardiologist released me to resume full activity including heavy lifting.

Are you on testosterone?

Samson
12-27-2016, 07:33 PM
This should be a sticky

Sierra2500hd
12-29-2016, 07:48 AM
That is correct


Are you referring to the ability of the left ventricle to pump out blood ?

Sierra2500hd
12-29-2016, 07:51 AM
Thanks for the support and additional info! I occasionally take Cialis. What does are you taking daily and would you mind posting a link to a study below?


some real great points by Zyglamail ...imho your doctors are treating you with drugs that really have no positive effects too your condition....in fact statins are one of the worst drugs ever pushed by big pharma...the negative impact on your liver from statins is shown to be determental....

glad you made it through....were about the same age and i recently(in the last year)had a endovenous ablation to relieve the discomfort of varicose veins that had built up around my knee and calf....it was said to be a easy and minimal procedure....yeah there full of shit...it sucked...

Anyway pre-op i took a stress test, EKG and had a heart ultra sound done along with full labs.....as this tech is doig the ultra sound on my heart i was almost afraid to ask how things looked....i havent lived the life of a saint lets say...i finally asked after 5 minutes and she said i had the best looking heart she has ever seen for my age(probably die tonite now that i said that)...one thing i took daily after reading multiple studies on was and is Cialis....studies has shown Cialis inhibits the enzymes that cause the build up and blockage in the heart...i had been using Cialis for a few years prior to this lovely ablation...

Was it the reason my heart looked so dandy?..i cant say for sure...but it might be worth talking to your doctors about....fyi

Wish ya the best and glad you came out on the above ground side....

- - - Updated - - -

I agree! Great input from members that is much appreciated and something everyone here should be knowledgeable and aware of....


This should be a sticky

Sierra2500hd
12-29-2016, 07:54 AM
I was on TRT Test-Cyp @ 200mg/week prior to the heart attack. The cardiologist told me to continue it and considers it a non-factor leading up to the heart attack.


Are you on testosterone?

Sierra2500hd
12-29-2016, 07:57 AM
Thanks again for all the great input brother!

Interesting note- The pharmacist recommended I don't take Potassium with the prescribed concoction I'm on. I don't recall why (beta blockers in full effect!) Do you happen to have an idea on this? I also stopped the lisinopril due to cough and am taking cozaar. I'm planning on eliminating the statin completely very soon.


Thats great news! Stick with the supp list I provided and you will continue to improve greatly.

In addition to what I previously mentioned, consider adding the following:

iodine (lugols, I takee approx 50mg a day) and 200mcg selenium
Source naturtals(only brand I have tried id recommend) methylcobalamin sublingual 5mg take 1-2 per day let dissolve between cheek and gum, can add dibencozide as well.
50mg zinc
magnesium until stools become soft then back off a bit, take multiple times a day
fish oil - think you said you already take that
boron 3mg a day or so
potassium bicarbonate - get rough estimate of what you get from diet and them supplement to try and hit 5g a day or so. Split dose throughout the day
solgar niacin - just the normal stuff that causes a flush. Need to work up the dose but I found working up to 1000mg 3 times day to help cholesterol numbers a lot if thats something you need long term help with. 500-1000mg a day would be good if cholesterol isnt an issue.

As I previously mentioned, expect to see a short term spike in cholesterol numbers due to vit C, lysine/proline use, this is to be expected and normal as it breaks free from arterial walls as they heal. You coul add in some msm, glucosamine/chondrition if ya want, they will only help collagen synthesis, especially when on ample Vit C.

Zyglamail
12-29-2016, 08:19 AM
Thanks again for all the great input brother!

Interesting note- The pharmacist recommended I don't take Potassium with the prescribed concoction I'm on. I don't recall why (beta blockers in full effect!) Do you happen to have an idea on this? I also stopped the lisinopril due to cough and am taking cozaar. I'm planning on eliminating the statin completely very soon.

Id have to look up the contraindications for your meds to be 100 sure but generally speaking here are my thoughts.

Docs are quick to warn against supplementation and all seem to think we get what we need from food which is sadly very mistaken. If a doc is OK with us getting the FDA recommended amounts of essential nutrients and you do some simple math to calculate what you get from your diet one should easily see if your short the FDA for potassium, if you are (and I bet you are) then I have to wonder if a drug is safe to give to someone who they assume is getting the FDA of potassium than why on earth wouldnt you be able to supplement up to the FDA? So in other words if your diet provides 1500mg and fda says we need 4700mg I would think it would be totally safe to to supplement what your getting from food up to the recommended 4700mg.

Beta blockers in general are potassium sparing, which is one reason they help many people, most people are deficient in potassium so when the drug helps the body spare it it offers an added benefit.

With the above in mind many drugs cause potassium retention and too much potassium is a bad thing but once again if you not blowing the 4700mg mark out of the water AND your working out and sweating your ass off you should be just fine but you will have to make the final call.

Another thing I wlays wonder about is when drugs interfere with nutrient absorption. They often causing against using supplements which blows my mind, last time I checked the nutrients were ESSENTIAL, ie required for life!!!! How can they toss drugs at you like they are candy all the while knowing they mess up ESSENTIAL nutrient absorption?