TRT conclusions for me...

I've spoken with several TRT clinics, and they are some pricey treatments.

What I thought was agood deal with HCG at 150$ a month leaves out the fine print. If the doctor order extra visits, etc, they are 100$ a pop, not including bloodwork. 2 annual visits come with the package.

Hell, if I started TRT, I'd probably be doing bloods every 4 weeks until I got dosage and E levels squared away. So thats almost 200$ extra a month on top of the 150.

No thanks, figure tests at 60$ a vial, needles, etc, plus monthly bloods, less than 200$ a month, including some sort of AI.

If I just take my bloods to my regular MD for review, thats covered under copays.


So this leaves me with once last question to everyone.

If I self administer just TRT levels (lets say 125x2 per week), at 58yo with a test level of 560, will it augment my test production, or slowly take it over and I'll have to increase dosage?(if I decide to cruise for awhile)

Thats kind of the last thing I'm trying to figure out. Wondering if I shouldnt try upping test first with clomid or nolvadex first? Or do test and hcg instead for awhile, trying to make sure I'm augmenting my test and not shutting down natural production. (and yes I know every person is different)

Sorry for all the questions, I've spent a good month reading here and elsewhere trying to put it all together.

you natural test will shut down once you start taking steroids. So where you wanting to do trt for awhile then stop? You have good levels. I'm 28 and my levels are 361. I think you should stick with you natural levels or go on trt and stay on it. If you want to go on a cycle then do pct that's fine. But no reason to do a trt dose then come back to regular levels.

jp1957 said:

One last question to everyone.
trying to make sure I'm augmenting my test and not shutting down natural production. (and yes I know every person is different)

Sorry for all the questions, I've spent a good month reading here and elsewhere trying to put it all together.

Click to expand...

Just to be clear.......when you introduce exogenous Testosterone, your body shuts down its own production. There is no such thing as augmenting. You either keep natural, which really is not a bad number, or you take over the process and can hit any number you want?

Verstehen Sie?

LowT

ok, thats kind of what I expected, so even HCG is of no help?

I guess my bottom line is, I'm trying to put on about 10-15pds of muscle I lost. At 58, with lower test (not bad but lower) not getting much out of it. Been at it a couple of years now. Had some gains, but not much. Training for strength, not size or competition.

Looking to get a boost for a short period of time and then try and keep on what I gain. I was thinking going TRT rather a blast for 8-12 weeks, see what kind of gains and how I feel. At worst, then blast if needed.

My concern is if I blast out of the starting gate, I may never regain any natural production. So go TRT/HCG for a time period, then evaluate whether to go PCT afterwards, or continue to cruise.

I'd rather not have to pin for the rest of my life, but if I feel better, it is what it is.

If you'd rather avoid pins, try the various AI or SERM therapies. They work well for some people. Aromasin, Arimidex, letrozole, clomid... a lot of options. This just clogs up some of the enzymes or receptors in your body and forces higher T production as a result. No shutdown, no pins, just the med (and possible sides). Might double your T.

There are 2 approaches to AAS use:
1) blast and cruise
2) cycle and PCT

The first one is continual pinning. You pin more on blast, less on cruise. Cruise is frequently at TRT doses.

The second is what people who care about their natural levels tend to do. Blast out of the gate, then run 2-3 week PCT, wait a month, and test to make sure natural levels returned.

Once you pin your first dose of AAS, yo run the risk of your natural level never returning. Just FYI.

chocolatemalt said:

If you'd rather avoid pins, try the various AI or SERM therapies. They work well for some people. Aromasin, Arimidex, letrozole, clomid... a lot of options. This just clogs up some of the enzymes or receptors in your body and forces higher T production as a result. No shutdown, no pins, just the med (and possible sides). Might double your T.

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You had my curiosity, sir. Now you have my attention.

Honestly sub q with trt is so easy. It's easier and less painful then getting a flu shot

UnusedGymMembers said:

You had my curiosity, sir. Now you have my attention.

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I believe hes referring to clomid or nolvadex as test boosters, which are run for PCT.

I've got some nolvadex coming.

I'm actually looking at a stack of mk-677, ostarine, and cardarine, and have nolva and exemestane on standby for gyno or E level issues. My just take the nolva during the cycle, and light on aromasin, not sure there, still reading.

Might do a 8 week cycle and see how that works. I'd considered gw-50156, but thats almost the same as taking dbol and is a test shutdown from what I've read.

at your age I honestly do not see you putting on 10-15 lbs of muscle with
just a little test. you need real muscle building anabolic.. npp or pimo
along with 250 mg a week of test will do it over maybe a 6 month period

your test level is good man, I wouldnt go on TRT, unless your ready to pin for the rest of your life. I would use GH. my opinion

heckler7 said:

your test level is good man, I wouldnt go on TRT, unless your ready to pin for the rest of your life. I would use GH. my opinion

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I agree. but I didn't mention gh because he seemed concerned with costs.
but def gh at 3-4 ius a day would make a world of difference over 6 months

bc123jm said:

I agree. but I didn't mention gh because he seemed concerned with costs.
but def gh at 3-4 ius a day would make a world of difference over 6 months

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but for what you pay a clinic plus cost of test cyp and labs and HCG and all the supps the clinics like you on you could run 2-4 iu of gh year round. unless insurance covers it. my doc cost me $200 a month, labs $350, test $95, HCG $90 and all the supps around $250.
now my insurance covers the test and labs so I pay for HCG and I dropped all the supps I think the are a waste

I guess I really havent looked at HGH, i thought that was more for injury repair, and stuff like that, not for muscle mass?

I was just reading something that said the muscle you put on doesnt increase your strength?

UnusedGymMembers said:

You had my curiosity, sir. Now you have my attention.

Click to expand...

I recent wrote a post on this subject in another thread, check it out:

http://www.anabolicsteroidforums.co...-question-oral-T/page3?highlight=serm+therapy


Unlike the others here, I don't think your natty 440 T level is good. The following charts show you're at about the 20% percentile for your age range, and still below average for even people in their late 50's. Probably for people even older too but that info isn't provided.

http://www.menshormonalhealth.com/normal-testosterone-levels.html

The other thing you have to know is that ALL of these numbers are at least 20% and maybe much more (30% or 40%?) below what they'd be in nature, i.e. if we were all relatively healthy and free from industrial hormone disruptors in our environment -- BPAs (and now BPSs), phthalates, atrazine, etc etc. These are the likely culprit behind a 15%+ decline in T in the general population that is not related to age or decreased health indicators:

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2006-1375

Most people ignore this info because science. But give it some thought and you might be struck with how alarming it is. A 15-20% decline in T levels over just 15+ years, inexplicable by standard causes. The short 15 yr period of investigation has to be seen in context of 125+ years of having hormone disrupting pollutants dumped into our environment (look up the history of phthalates and BPAs, and that's just a couple)... how long has the pollution level been high enough to fuck us up and lower overall T levels in everyone? Hasn't been investigated to my knowledge. This really should be front page news.

If I were you I'd aim for 1000-1200 ng/dL T levels.

How you get there is a bigger question, but your lifestyle is clearly unhealthy. If you lost 40 lbs you might see your T level skyrocket just on that change alone due to loss of aromatase in fat cells and improved health and activity. But fixing T with meds will help jumpstart that process. It's kind of a chicken-and-egg thing (if you're stuck in a rut), or a positive feedback system. Higher T makes it easier to push weights and lose weight among lots of other benefits. Better health will improve T levels naturally. Whether you start with T-boosting meds or a big willpower push in the gym and diet, or both, either way can start the transformation.

Be sure to read the major stickies before starting anything. There's a lot more we could go over but most of it has been talked to death already in those stickies.

bc123jm said:

at your age I honestly do not see you putting on 10-15 lbs of muscle with
just a little test. you need real muscle building anabolic.. npp or pimo
along with 250 mg a week of test will do it over maybe a 6 month period

Click to expand...

Keeping it will be the harder part.

jp1957 said:

I guess I really havent looked at HGH, i thought that was more for injury repair, and stuff like that, not for muscle mass?

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not so much for mass, but after 40 it really helps everything.
its like 1+1 = 3.5

I'll be taking mk-677 to help boost gh, so we'll see. Coupled with Nolva to boost test. And ostarine and cardarine for cutting. I'll see how my bloods go after I start this cycle in a week or so, once everything gets here.

jp1957 said:

I'll be taking mk-677 to help boost gh, so we'll see. Coupled with Nolva to boost test. And ostarine and cardarine for cutting. I'll see how my bloods go after I start this cycle in a week or so, once everything gets here.

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IGF-1 is the best indicator we have of GH (and analogs) effect. Be sure to include that in labs if you weren't already planning it. A baseline is good too, not required but good!

Yea, the female panel I got did not include IGF-1 levels unfortunately

My Doc
100.00 a month and will see me for ANYTHING and prescribe whats needed.
75.00 every three months for Test and Pins
HCG 50.00 every three months

I wont be canceling anytime soon.