Help- Bloodwork #s show very high cholesterol, plus he has Factor V Leiden

Hi guys,

I'm very concerned about my father's current health (and I prescribe his gear). Besides the high cholesterol, he was diagnosed last year with Factor V Leiden (a blood clotting disorder in the veins). The doctor now wants to prescribe Lipitor, which I know nothing about. Here are his #s, taken after a 4 month cycle with 250 Test Cyp, 50 Deca, 25 mg Anavar, and .25ml Arimidex.

12 hrs fasting, red bold signifies outside of normal range


The doctor wants him to immediately begin taking Lipitor. However, he is now on a 300 Test Cyp, 300 Deca a week and 20mg Nolvadex every day. I've read Arimidex can cause problems with cholesterol, and Nolvadex is a better choice for managing it. I'm concerned with the cholesterol #s, has anyone else experienced this, or can testify to Arimidex vs Nolvadex? Additionally, should he avoid the Lipitor all together or start taking this as well? I don't know how it will interact with the gear

Thank you in advance!

First,

Let me highlight a few items off the top of my head:

What is the age of your father?
Why is he running both Test and Deca at the same dose?
How is his diet and cardio?
Where is his liver data from the blood work?

Arimidex can adversely effect lipid numbers.
Statin drugs are very serious medications and can have a host of side effects. That should be a last resort.

Lets start there.
Ldog

PS...I'm not a doctor but I have been self trained in gynecology.

How old is he? I'd pull his T dose way back (like 150) and stop Deca & Anavar immediately.

He should eat bile binding vegetables. Kale and beets, steamed. Or get a juicer and have him eat the pulp. This will lower is LDL and help detoxify his liver. With a clean liver and lower T dose, his need for Adex should go down, and in turn help the HDL/LDL balance. With those values, I'd suggest no cycling until he sees lipid improvement.

I'd try adjusting his AAS and diet before taking additional meds to control lipids. But that's just me, some guys on here would tell you otherwise.

^^^ that.

How new are his symptoms? The terrible lipids and blood clotting disorder? If any of it is new I'd be following Tony Mack's advice straightaway, crashing right out of the cycle.

If these are old symptoms that your dad is used to playing games with and the lipids only go out of whack during cycle, I'd still consider trying out a test-only regimen to see if results can happen that way at a lesser hit to his health.

---

Oh yeah... arimidex vs nolva is usually not a choice for a cycle. That's an AI vs a SERM, and the SERM will only gum up estrogen receptors in the body while not doing anything to prevent elevated E2. A much better option is aromasin. If the arimidex is indeed hurting his lipid markers, this is a no brainer for a next course of action.

I am so sorry for this late reply, to communicate a sense of urgency and then not respond is a serious faux pas. I've been exhausted from hunting season and left my laptop at camp- just picked it back up tonight.

To respond to your questions:
-Dad is 51 y/o
-Test/Deca at same dose because I was under impression that one (truly) only needed enough T to stave off Deca dick. Is this too much T, or not enough?
-Diet is mostly eggs/bagel (breakfast), chicken/rice (lunch), pork/beef/quinoa/pasta (dinner), peanut butter (dessert). Weekends it does have a tend to get sloppy.
-Cardio 3x a week, ~20minutes (outdoor run). Lift 2x a week, centering around the squat
-I do not have liver data available
-Factor V Leiden is genetic, he was diagnosed before starting AAS
-From what I've read, Aromasin's potential side effects aren't great, including a tendency of exasperating negative effects towards cholesterol levels.

Looking at his (very cheap) protein powder, we observed that a single dose contained 25% of one's daily recommended cholesterol consumption. Optimum Gold on the other hand, contains only 18%, and my protein, MET-RX whey isolate contains only 6%.

Moving forward, would there be an agreement that dropping the Test to... 150mg(?) help? Combined with a cleaner diet?

Final vote on the addition of Lipitor?

WRB,

Here are some suggestions.

1) Get some additional blood work to include AST,ALT and GGT.
2) Lower the T too 150-175mg
3) Lower the Deca to 75mg per week or just dro it altogether.
4) Increase cardio to 30 minutes 3x per week.
5) Retest his lipids after 3 months.
6) Avoid Statin drugs unless it's absolutely needed.

Factor V Leiden is not too be taken lightly....first off imho he needs to stop all exogenous hormones....they can defiantly increase his chances of a blood clot....low T is better then dead...the aas use being discontinued or heavliy reduced alone will improve his cholesterol regardless..

do you know if he has 1 or 2 copies of the FVL in each cell?..two is at a higher risk for a clot...fyi

his diet needs some fiberous vegetables...if he is anti-veggie you can use some green food like Barleans SuperFood at 1-2 scoops a day...up cardio and improve diet will also be very benefical...

the low total protein marker could be simple dehydration but a lab test of his serum protein levels wouldnt be a bad idea to see whats up...regardless regular steady hydration is a plus...

i'm not a real big lipitor fan unless needed for sure....he would appear to be in the for sure range most likely....on lipitor his liver markers(ast/alt) will rise as lipitor effects these markers....

i'm assuming his Dr doesnt know he takes AAS?..in most cases i would say dont tell him...but in this case i would if he stays on AAS....things like this they need to know with these types of medical conditions....btw he will proabably be pretty anti AAS use for your Dad....

Hope your dad gets to feeling better soon WRB, just wanted to note....I take Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) because my oncologist has put me on it and we've been battling over it for the last few months. It has a side effect of causing blood clots and stroke (a biggie in my family) so you might want to take a closer look at it ????

wrbsuperman said:

Hi guys,

I'm very concerned about my father's current health (and I prescribe his gear). Besides the high cholesterol, he was diagnosed last year with Factor V Leiden (a blood clotting disorder in the veins). The doctor now wants to prescribe Lipitor, which I know nothing about. Here are his #s, taken after a 4 month cycle with 250 Test Cyp, 50 Deca, 25 mg Anavar, and .25ml Arimidex.

12 hrs fasting, red bold signifies outside of normal range

What it is	Result	Range
Direct Bilirubin	0.1	0.0-0.5
Total Protein	6.3	6.4-8.3
ALB P	3.6	3.3-5.0
Alkaline Phosph.	47	40-150
Alanine Amino	23	0-55
Aspartate Amino	20	5-34
A/G	2.33	1.46-2.46
Indirect Bilirubin	0.2	0.2-.80
Total Bilirubin	0.3	0.2-1.2
GLOB 2	2.7	2.3-4.2
Lipid Panel	Profile	Range
Cholesterol	192	112-200
Triglyceride	86	1-200
HDL	20	30-70
CHOL/HDL	9.6	4.0-6.7
NHDL	172	0-100
LDL-C	155	20-130

The doctor wants him to immediately begin taking Lipitor. However, he is now on a 300 Test Cyp, 300 Deca a week and 20mg Nolvadex every day. I've read Arimidex can cause problems with cholesterol, and Nolvadex is a better choice for managing it. I'm concerned with the cholesterol #s, has anyone else experienced this, or can testify to Arimidex vs Nolvadex? Additionally, should he avoid the Lipitor all together or start taking this as well? I don't know how it will interact with the gear

Thank you in advance!

Click to expand...

2 things
First he does not have high cholesterol at 192
he has a bad
#2 the low HDL is a direct result of the Var get him off that NOW.
There are supplements that will improve HDL.

Read this:

http://www.healthafter50.com/reports/heart_health/1886-1.html

Mrsrobinson said:

Hope your dad gets to feeling better soon WRB, just wanted to note....I take Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) because my oncologist has put me on it and we've been battling over it for the last few months. It has a side effect of causing blood clots and stroke (a biggie in my family) so you might want to take a closer look at it ????

Click to expand...

I never do what my doc says if I dont agree, I'll see another doc immediately, sometimes they are too stuck in a pattern to see what you need is an individual diagnoses

wrbsuperman said:

Hi guys,

I'm very concerned about my father's current health (and I prescribe his gear). Besides the high cholesterol, he was diagnosed last year with Factor V Leiden (a blood clotting disorder in the veins). The doctor now wants to prescribe Lipitor, which I know nothing about. Here are his #s, taken after a 4 month cycle with 250 Test Cyp, 50 Deca, 25 mg Anavar, and .25ml Arimidex.

12 hrs fasting, red bold signifies outside of normal range

What it is	Result	Range
Direct Bilirubin	0.1	0.0-0.5
Total Protein	6.3	6.4-8.3
ALB P	3.6	3.3-5.0
Alkaline Phosph.	47	40-150
Alanine Amino	23	0-55
Aspartate Amino	20	5-34
A/G	2.33	1.46-2.46
Indirect Bilirubin	0.2	0.2-.80
Total Bilirubin	0.3	0.2-1.2
GLOB 2	2.7	2.3-4.2
Lipid Panel	Profile	Range
Cholesterol	192	112-200
Triglyceride	86	1-200
HDL	20	30-70
CHOL/HDL	9.6	4.0-6.7
NHDL	172	0-100
LDL-C	155	20-130

The doctor wants him to immediately begin taking Lipitor. However, he is now on a 300 Test Cyp, 300 Deca a week and 20mg Nolvadex every day. I've read Arimidex can cause problems with cholesterol, and Nolvadex is a better choice for managing it. I'm concerned with the cholesterol #s, has anyone else experienced this, or can testify to Arimidex vs Nolvadex? Additionally, should he avoid the Lipitor all together or start taking this as well? I don't know how it will interact with the gear

Thank you in advance!

Click to expand...

looks like a minicycle and you should expect crazy numbers, what was you long term plan here and why did you put him on this cycle

wrbsuperman said:

-From what I've read, Aromasin's potential side effects aren't great, including a tendency of exasperating negative effects towards cholesterol levels.

Looking at his (very cheap) protein powder, we observed that a single dose contained 25% of one's daily recommended cholesterol consumption. Optimum Gold on the other hand, contains only 18%, and my protein, MET-RX whey isolate contains only 6%.

Moving forward, would there be an agreement that dropping the Test to... 150mg(?) help? Combined with a cleaner diet?

Click to expand...

I haven't looked at this in a while but it appears there's conflicting data and a lot of studies reaching opposing conclusions on the cholesterol effects of aromasin and arimidex. Both have been implicated and exonerated. Has anyone else out there done more in-depth research on this?

A small sample of the opposing studies:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/anastrozole-oral-route/precautions/drg-20061868
http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/2/211.full
http://www.oncologynurseadvisor.com...owers-good-cholesterol-levels/article/220644/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16184460

Just search on "cholesterol" for a quick idea of what conclusions they reached.

In any case, I don't get a strong sense that aromasin is riskier than arimidex for this purpose.

Also, my understanding was that dietary cholesterol has been de-linked from blood levels -- i.e. eating the stuff doesn't result in high levels because the stuff is either broken down in the stomach or by the liver on the way into the system.

Dropping to 150 mg/wk test is a good average for most people to achieve regular test levels. Only bloodwork will tell the real story though. I don't think there's any harm to come from aiming for 1,000 ng/dL avg levels while on TRT. It's well within the physiological levels and, besides, you gotta take all those reference ranges with a huge grain of salt since they include in the dataset all kinds of people afflicted with past or present dietary, drug, or toxin-induced testosterone suppression. Phthalates, BPAs, pesticides, opiates, couch-potatoism, the list goes on. And levels have been falling for decades due to these effects and maybe other as-yet-unknown causes, indicating that our natural pre-industrial contamination levels were higher. Reasonable estimates for that unpolluted range might be 600-1,200, maybe even 700-1,400... who knows? The current range of 350-1,100 (for one example lab) is clearly garbage, however.

Guys (and gal), the work that went into your responses really means alot to me, I am truly grateful. We've been having trouble with super-saturated Test Cyp, lots of crystallizing, but this week we reduced his dose from 300 to 150, while maintaining the same levels of Deca. Next week we will eliminate the Deca while keeping the same levels of Test (150). I am very concerned about Nolvadex's blood-clotting effects, but right now this is the only thing we have at our disposal to combat gyno. If anyone wanted to suggest an alternative (perhaps in the form of a PM?) I would appreciate it. I am taking him off the Nolva all-together

http://www.integrativeoncology-esse...you-if-you-are-at-a-high-risk-of-blood-clots/

This is NOT a piece of peer-reviewed literature, and I am loathe to post it here and contribute to unfounded hysteria or postulations. *tipping hat to chocolatemalt for his excellent research that I eagerly devoured moments ago* However, criticism seems to be present across the web and this article does mention individuals with Factor V Leiden.

My dad is going to be so bummed if he has to go off gear lol, it totally changed his life for the better. I will continue to research on these topics, AIs, SERMS, etc, and re-emerge some time from now with (hopefully) more conclusive studies and evidence to contribute to this subject. TRT for the high-risk man...

(I sent the nutrition info on those greens to a friend mastering in nutrition at Bastyr out in Washington, I'm sure she'll give 'em the thumbs up and am looking forward to adding them into my own diet as well (he and I are both pretty anti-veggie lol))

Good decisions bro.

- - - Updated - - -

Good decisions bro.