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View Full Version : High rep lower weight vs lower reps high weight



CalorieKiller22
10-24-2015, 07:10 PM
I have always been taught to put on size I need to lift heavy with proper form. Don't laugh but I was watching a rich piana and ric drasin vid and they mentions that while on cycle it could be more beneficial to do lower weight with higher reps. After hearing that I do recall getting better pumps doing a dropset or burnout after a heavy session. What are you guys thoughts on this? Also I am not worried about being the strongest person out there I just want to build full muscles and grow as much as I can.

galois
10-24-2015, 07:17 PM
for hypertrophy supposedly it depends on the muscle group and legs respond better to higher volume at 50-60%. I'm paraphrase mark rippetoe from memory. he did not address affects of gear.

CalorieKiller22
10-24-2015, 07:27 PM
I think I may give it a go to see if I can see a difference. Since I was 16 I have been pushing the most weight possible. I want to try to isolate each muscle this time around and really focus on working it till failure at lets say around 60%

johnjohn
10-24-2015, 07:36 PM
60% of what you can lift at high reps definitely changed my body drastically in 6 months.

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BigTime
10-24-2015, 07:38 PM
I'm done with heavy weights. That's how i fucked up my shoulder. You really don't need em. I think i am getting better results with lower weight and reps in the 12-15 Range.

CalorieKiller22
10-24-2015, 08:42 PM
That's enough testimony for me, I'm in!!

babykong
10-24-2015, 09:24 PM
I'm done with heavy weights. That's how i fucked up my shoulder. You really don't need em. I think i am getting better results with lower weight and reps in the 12-15 Range.
How many sets are you doing per exercise with reps in the 12-15 range? And your max your lifting is around 60% of what you can do? Do I have all that right?

babykong

Augustine5I
10-25-2015, 06:54 AM
I think both have their place.

Perhaps there is no better way to get thick/really dense looking muscle then using heavy weight.

I also think that the kind of muscle you build using heavy weight sort of stays with you longer. Some newbie comes along doing high volume while on gear puts on good muscle, but the moment he stops, gains utterly disappear. IMO

It is nice when you can get the kind of strength that when you ARE lifting 60% for higher reps....that weight is substantially higher then what everyone else is lifting. And for them, that is "heavy" weight.

For example, maybe you are able to do 315 for 10 reps on bench. But you could do 385 for 3 reps. For you, 315 is the "lighter" weight you speak of but to others they are astonished at your ability to hit a heavy weight for reps.

So the end up, the weight is relative depending on the person. What I might consider "heavy" you might consider "light" or vice versus.

CalorieKiller22
10-25-2015, 07:24 AM
I think both have their place.

Perhaps there is no better way to get thick/really dense looking muscle then using heavy weight.

I also think that the kind of muscle you build using heavy weight sort of stays with you longer. Some newbie comes along doing high volume while on gear puts on good muscle, but the moment he stops, gains utterly disappear.
Well I hope that doesn't happen, but I do want to try something new.. You know switch it up a bit. I got the thinking last night and I think I may mix the two together; such as, the first set to for volume as well as the second ; the third I will try to lift the heaviest I can and the fourth back to volume and lift till failure.

johnjohn
10-25-2015, 07:42 AM
Well I hope that doesn't happen, but I do want to try something new.. You know switch it up a bit. I got the thinking last night and I think I may mix the two together; such as, the first set to for volume as well as the second ; the third I will try to lift the heaviest I can and the fourth back to volume and lift till failure.
What i do is on chest day is start with dumbbells flat bench. Warm up with 30s for 25. Then move to 60s for 10 then go to the 100s for 10 and make my way through the entire bottom shelf 100,95.90,85,80,75, all in sets of ten then at 70,65,60,55,50 is all inclined. I'm almost to failure. Then dumbbell flies flat 5 sets of 10 and inclined 5 sets of 10. Weight varies on how tired i am. Buy the time i get to the barbell its usually light weight starting with 4 plates. Then reducing weight all through the 5 sets. Same with inclined barbell. Then on to cable cross overs high,med then low. All 5 sets of 10. Lots of volume seems to work best for me

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galois
10-25-2015, 07:55 AM
Well I hope that doesn't happen, but I do want to try something new.. You know switch it up a bit. I got the thinking last night and I think I may mix the two together; such as, the first set to for volume as well as the second ; the third I will try to lift the heaviest I can and the fourth back to volume and lift till failure.

I might be off base but I think there are 3 basic ways that muscles get bigger:

cell replication (hyperplasia)
glycogen/water storage increase (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy)
fiber increase (myofibrillar hypertrophy)


(2) comes from higher reps and (3) comes from higher weight. I'm not sure if there's consensus about which is better retained post-cycle but it seems to me that (2) varies considerably especially with use of orals.

I should say outright that my background is in endurance sports and I'm still trying to get up to speed with building muscle. With my limited experience I think you'd be better served by not mixing the two types of training in a single workout since you want to fully stress particular systems. For instance, you will not be able to generate max power after high volume sets and vice versa. Drop sets seem to run counter to this but really drop sets are not about volume but about fully engaging muscle fibers which are not fully engaged even when lifting at max.

Augustine5I
10-25-2015, 08:15 AM
I might be off base but I think there are 3 basic ways that muscles get bigger:

cell replication (hyperplasia)
glycogen/water storage increase (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy)
fiber increase (myofibrillar hypertrophy)


(2) comes from higher reps and (3) comes from higher weight. I'm not sure if there's consensus about which is better retained post-cycle but it seems to me that (2) varies considerably especially with use of orals.

I should say outright that my background is in endurance sports and I'm still trying to get up to speed with building muscle. With my limited experience I think you'd be better served by not mixing the two types of training in a single workout since you want to fully stress particular systems. For instance, you will not be able to generate max power after high volume sets and vice versa. Drop sets seem to run counter to this but really drop sets are not about volume but about fully engaging muscle fibers which are not fully engaged even when lifting at max.

To simply I think it is fair to say that muscle will grow/respond to a stimulus that makes it necessary to change.

The applied stimulus creates a breakdown whereby the muscle rebuilds bigger, and thicker then before so to better prepare it for that same stimulus next time. Goes into our DNA for the need to adapt and survive.

That stimulus can be the amount of resistance applied, the amount of time under tension, the type of contraction (isometric, isotonic or isokinetic) and other principals.

Training for endurance or strength will greatly depend on the type of muscle fibers trained (type I or type II) fast twitch or slow twitch). So you don't train one muscle group exactly the same as another as far a rep range necessarily.

Gear will greatly influence recovery time (improved nitrogen retention and decreased catabolic effects) so that the rebuilding process is accelerated. Making your training sessions way more productive then the next guy who isn't on gear. But as everyone always says, you must have a stimulus sufficient enough. So gear makes your gains come faster but that is not the entire picture. Still have to train hard and eat properly to get the desired results.

BigTime
10-25-2015, 08:22 AM
[QUOTE=babykong;733413]How many sets are you doing per exercise with reps in the 12-15 range? And your max your lifting is around 60% of what you can do? Do I have all that right?
babykong[/QUOTE
Ususly do 3 sets per exercise. Don't realy keep track of percentages just listen to my body. First set i get 15 fairly easy second strugle to get 15 and by the thrid I'm done at 12 if that makes any sense lol.

twisted
10-25-2015, 02:42 PM
1 one warm up set ........12 reps per set .....5sets imo .....rep till failure maintain proper form


fuck liftin heavy I grew more with hi reps less weight ...and less chance of injury

TrainInsane89
10-25-2015, 06:27 PM
It depends on a few factors, the ones who are preaching really high reps, rich is talking about sets of 50 and shit, many other pros are doing this also. Its because of the crazy level of physique developement they already have. Higher reps causes sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, it basicaly the amount of sacroplasmic fluid the muscle can hold increases, while lower reps cause myofibrillar hypertrophy, actual growth of the muscle fibers making them thicker and denser, thats real muscle. Guys like rich are maxed the fuck out when it comes to that type of training as are most pros so this type of high rep work is great for them. But dont think they got that way doing high reps, they build their foundation with heavy ass weights but for reps, staying in the "bodybuilding rep range" 8-12. It also depends on the muscle fiber makeup of your body, depending on if you have more fast twitch or slow twitch will depend on which rep range youll respond best to, and this varies muscle to muscle. I fell for this bullshit and trained like that for like 6 months and got nowhere. You gotta lift heavy, im not talking about powerlifting style with really low reps but weight where you fail between 6-12. Staying between 8-10 is a good bet. But i vary my rep ranges in each workout, if its chest my compound movements first will be the lowest rep ranges, like 6-8 with flat, 8-10 with incline, 12-15 wtih flys, then ill go as high as 20 for my last exercise. Each rep range has its own benefit and hits a differnet type of muscle fiber so by hitting them all you get all the benefits and miss out on nothing. But strictly lifting in the 6-8 range youll be missing out on the sacoplasmic growth and strickly lifting in the 15+ youll at best be missing out on the myofibrillar growth which is actual real tissue growth( the low rep range is what makes you stronger also) , or you dont respond at all to that rep range and you get nothing from it. If you constantly around 8-12 will give you a mix of both types of muscle growth. I will say this though, if youve hit a plateau and have been staying around 8-15 for a long time blasting your muscles with some high ass reps can get you out of that plateau and trigger some new growth.

chocolatemalt
10-25-2015, 10:03 PM
I might be off base but I think there are 3 basic ways that muscles get bigger:

cell replication (hyperplasia)
glycogen/water storage increase (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy)
fiber increase (myofibrillar hypertrophy)


(2) comes from higher reps and (3) comes from higher weight. I'm not sure if there's consensus about which is better retained post-cycle but it seems to me that (2) varies considerably especially with use of orals.

I should say outright that my background is in endurance sports and I'm still trying to get up to speed with building muscle. With my limited experience I think you'd be better served by not mixing the two types of training in a single workout since you want to fully stress particular systems. For instance, you will not be able to generate max power after high volume sets and vice versa. Drop sets seem to run counter to this but really drop sets are not about volume but about fully engaging muscle fibers which are not fully engaged even when lifting at max.

That sounds right to me. And as I recall, hyperplasia hasn't been shown to be reliably producible beyond ... teenage years or so? And growth hormone makes an end run around this problem. Been awhile since I studied this stuff tho...

Zyglamail
10-26-2015, 04:23 AM
I have always been taught to put on size I need to lift heavy with proper form. Don't laugh but I was watching a rich piana and ric drasin vid and they mentions that while on cycle it could be more beneficial to do lower weight with higher reps. After hearing that I do recall getting better pumps doing a dropset or burnout after a heavy session. What are you guys thoughts on this? Also I am not worried about being the strongest person out there I just want to build full muscles and grow as much as I can.

I think generally speaking galois (http://www.anabolicsteroidforums.com/member.php/15306-galois) nailed it. If you want size then generally weights you can lift more than 5 reps is where you want to be. The problem is muscle mass is not the only equation to muscle strength. A persons central nervous systems (ie CNS) and its ability to contract muscle fiber plays a huge role in actual strength. Its sais the average untrained person is only capable of recruiting about 50% of their muscle fiber during a conscious contraction. Whereas an elite athlete is capable of 95%.

So when it comes to adding size there comes a point when just adding the muscle is not enough, the body needs to be able to use and control it and only by doing so can you actually cause the stress needed to make it grow. When I was working for size I always found that my best strength gains took place when little to no mass was being added, then strength gains would stall and all of a sudden I would put on some mass. After a while however this natural cyclic change stopped and wasnt attainable by just the same old 8-12 rep stuff and I had to start cycling the work, some time with high weight low rep, then high rep low weight then somewhere in the middle.

Nowdays I could care less how big I am or look so my focus is on high weight low rep primarily only adding in higher rep work when I stop gaining strength to build some additional mass and give my CNS a rest.

CalorieKiller22
10-28-2015, 01:53 PM
Normally I try for 6 reps, so usually am around 6-8, I think I may up it to 10-12 instead of 15+