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Help me build my quads

malfeasance

malfeasance

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Get Shredded!
My legs lag. Lagging legs. I measured my quads, and they were 25 inches. I am six feet tall, 220-225 pounds, 17 inch bicep, 17.5 inch neck, 46 inch chest. I am on gear. My quads should not be a mere 25 inches.

I am an old man, late forties, and I have arthritis in the shoulder and a lack of range of motion, meaning I cannot get my hand back there far enough to grab the bar for regular squats anymore. My gym does not have a safety squat bar, which would allow me to grab the two bars in front, alleviating the shoulder issue. SO, I started doing front squats.

I hated front squats at first. They were awkward. I kept dumping the weight. Plus it was really shameful to be struggling with 135. I have now built up to 6-8 reps with 225, which is still embarrassingly light, I know, but I can see a difference from doing front squats. I do them as low as I can go, sometimes relaxing at the bottom to let the weight push me down as far as my tendons allow.

Here is what my leg workout looks like:

Front squats 4 sets, 6-8 reps with 225
Leg Sled 4-5 sets, 10-20 rep range (this is 7 plates on a side right now for the lower end of that rep range)
Hack Squats 3 sets, 10-12 rep range (two plates and a 25 on each side right now for the lower end of that rep range)
Leg Extensions, 3 sets, 15-20 rep range
Leg Curls, 5 sets

I am on a six day split. Lately, I have started doing legs twice a week, hoping that would make a difference, and it seemed like it was for a while, but it made me feel "burned out" and lethargic after a couple of weeks. I am still doing it twice weekly, anyway, to see what comes of it.

So there it is. My workout, my limitations, my age, my ridiculously wimpy weights and measurements. Please make your suggestions (but only if you have quads over 25 inches at a reasonably low level of bodyfat).

I was considering maybe doing drop sets for the front squats. Maybe put a 45 on each side and a couple of 25s on each side for 235, push out 6 reps (or whatever I can get), strip off a 25, for 185, crank out whatever I can get, strip off a 25 for 135, and crank out whatever I can get . . .
 
If you have some deadlift straps put them around the bar and use those to grab unto when you do back squats
 
narrow leg press and wide leg press will help, add in some lunges on top of what your doing. When my quads were the biggest I NEVER did squats. I hated and still hate them to this day.
 
I'm mid forties and my legs have lagged also but exploded this year. I do a standard back squat pyramid 2-4 times a week depending on what my training cycle is. I got super strong, however, it wasn't until a added just a couple sets on the front end that my legs started blowing up. I do 135 for 30-50 reps; then 225 for 20-30 reps. Then go on to a short pyramid of heavy weight, then last set make it a drop set. I do some front squats, some barbell lunges, leg machines and presses just once a week on a dedicated leg day.

BTW...all my squats are deep...ass to the grass; shoulder width or narrower stance. Sometimes for a few extra sets or reps I'll go feet together all the way down.
 
Try using a smith machine for back squats. It will allow you to only need one hand since its in a fixed position. I have a broken wrist right now and that's what I'm having to do. Lunges, heavier weight with a lower rep range, various leg width while doing different presses and like you're doing, 2 a weeks. Try lifting heavy one day and light the other. Taking a rest day after will help with the fatigue.


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Well my quads aren't particularly huge. But for my height and weight I think they're pretty good. I'm 6'3" 211lbs ~~10-12% BF and my quads measure 25.5" my legs are also super long at 43" in length. Only been on gear 8 weeks. My other measurements. 17.5" Neck, 44" Chest, 15.5" Bicep.

Only thing I'd recommend is squatting more often 3+ times per week. Your body will adjust. I recommend getting some knee sleeves they will help keep your knee joint warmed up.

I used mostly Back Squats to build my Quads, but some exercises that might help: Sumo Deadlifts and Trap Bar Deadlifts.
 
I dont use any machines for legs, back squat mostly (oly style high bar would best describe them), occasional front sqauts, deads, weighted back extensions, RDL's, occasional lunges, heavy sled pushes/pulls(hits VMO nicely). My rep ranges almost exclusively 6 or less, I dont want any size, just strength. Last measurement legs were just over 29" before I shifted focus from deadlifts to squats.
 
malfeasance said:
He does not want any size, but his quads are 4 inches larger than mine!!!
Click to expand...

lol, thats just happening, im not specifically working for hypertrophy. Just going for functional strength.
 
The first thing I noticed is your weights are low. I know this is the chicken and egg thing (I need bigger quads to handle more weight, but i need to handle more weight for bigger quads), but always be trying to handle more weight or do more reps with the same weight.

Front squats are great, but keep the reps at 6 or below. They fatigue the upper back more than the legs at higher reps because the upper back must always be working. Use back squats if you want to hit a higher rep range.

Some other thoughts:
Try movements that let you train one leg at a time.

Try changing rest periods.

If all else fails do 10x10 squats
 
IML Gear Cream!
My legs are 29 inches I hardly ever squat over 405 because I don't feel it in my muscles as much as joints/tendons. Focus on activating and contracting the muscle properly with about 3-4 second eccentrics make your muscle work not just bang out mindless reps. Mind body connection is everything for a bodybuilder without it your development will lack greatly.


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McDouche said:
The first thing I noticed is your weights are low. I know this is the chicken and egg thing (I need bigger quads to handle more weight, but i need to handle more weight for bigger quads)
Click to expand...
I know

shame . . . hide face . . .

I am working on it.

I increased to 235 on front squat last time, and it was all I could do to get 5 reps. I will be trying again tonight. This really is a heavy weight for me on that exercise. I will keep pushing it as hard as I can, trying to progressively add weight and reps.
 
malfeasance said:
Here is what my leg workout looks like:

Front squats 4 sets, 6-8 reps with 225
Leg Sled 4-5 sets, 10-20 rep range (this is 7 plates on a side right now for the lower end of that rep range)
Hack Squats 3 sets, 10-12 rep range (two plates and a 25 on each side right now for the lower end of that rep range)
Leg Extensions, 3 sets, 15-20 rep range
Leg Curls, 5 sets
. . .
I was considering maybe doing drop sets for the front squats. Maybe put a 45 on each side and a couple of 25s on each side for 235, push out 6 reps (or whatever I can get), strip off a 25, for 185, crank out whatever I can get, strip off a 25 for 135, and crank out whatever I can get . . .
Click to expand...

So, last night, I decided just to do two sets of front squats, with the second set being a drop set as outlined above in the last sentence quoted. I put 235 on the bar, and did 6 difficult (for me) reps. On the second set, I still managed, barely, to get 6, mainly motivated by McDouche's comments about my "light weight." Grrrr . . . Anyway, I succeeded in getting the sixth rep up, racked the weight, and stripped off the first pair of 25s as quickly as I could, dumping them on the rubber mats, placing myself back under the bar, and front squatting with the new weight of 185.

Gasp! I got only 4 reps, and I almost did not get the fourth one up.

I ran around, gasping for air, and stripped off the second set of 25s. Now there is only a measly 135 on the bar. I got under the bar, started squatting, and, for the first rep or two, thought i might crank out a whole bunch of reps. No dice. By the sixth rep I was once again struggling. I managed to get a seventh, and I was completely out of gas. I then spent the next three minutes struggling to breath. I have never quite experienced anything like that three minutes. It was not like going for a run and breathing hard. I felt like I could not breath. My heart was pounding.

I went on to the leg sled and managed a decent showing, no drop sets. Hack squats, I was out of gas at this point, but did the best I could. Leg extensions went ok for three sets, and the leg curls seemed unaffected.

The drop set kicked my butt.
 
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Nice job on those drop sets! Squats will take your breath away. I always start out with 30-50 reps with 135, but I start breathing hard at about 12. By 25 I'm ready to quit not because of my legs but because of how hard I'm breathing. Just keep cranking it out. I'm no expert on size but I'm finding out volume is creating size for me and the low reps are creating strength in the same workout.
 
McDouche said:
The first thing I noticed is your weights are low.
Click to expand...
I have increased the front squat weight from 225 to 235. The first time I could manage only 5 reps. Last night, the second time with 235 (and as posted above), I managed two sets of 6, with the second set being a drop set that kicked my butt. I will keep working on increasing the weight.

As for the leg sled (a machine at like a 45 degree angle where you sit down, put your feet up on a platform, and push it up, sliding up and down on rails) I have 7 plates on a side, which is 630 pounds. It is all I can do to push that weight and still get it down low enough to make a decent range of motion. If it were any heavier I would probably not get a decent range of motion (how I see most people performing the exercise, barely bending their knees). Even at only 630 pounds, there is a lot of stress on my knees and hips, so the weight resistance is not imaginary. I have been, and will, keep working on increasing the weight, though, progressing to ever higher resistance.

Hack squat - 230 pounds. I would like to increase this one, but lately, as I increase the intensity of the front squats and leg sled, my reps have actually been dropping instead of rising. I am just tired as hell by the time I get to this one. I take a 90 second to two minute rest and even "warm up" with a lighter weight first, but whereas I did get ten reps previously, I am only getting 7 or 8 now. I will keep trying. I go below parallel on this exercise.
 
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Malf, have you tried this idea that Dema mentioned earlier?

 
As Arnold said years ago...and it stuck with me at 18 years old (I am now 45), "To get big, you have to get strong...there is no other way."

Drop sets are an advanced technique that is great for breaking plateaus and shocking the muscle. Not size.

You should always be looking to add more weight...even when you think you can't handle it, you usually can. But have a spotter, knee wraps and a good belt to protect you. This will help you push further then you can on your own.

Since you have physical limitations, I would recommend lunges with dumbells or in the smith machine. Step ups with heavy dumbells too.

I think the front squats will always limit you (even if you manage to put up another 25 pounds, say 255 for 6 reps, you will still not have the size because it is not heavy enough. And that could take you 6 months). Need to push heavy weight. Not going to have good size squatting less then 300 pounds whether it's front or rear.

Or, if your gym does not meet your needs...find one that does.

Best regards
 
TouaregV8 said:
Malf, have you tried this idea that Dema mentioned earlier?

Click to expand...
I have not. It looks a little scary as a method for holding the weight. I will check out your video and perhaps try out this method.

Are you and Dema saying this because I absolutely have to do back squats? In other words, if I want to get larger than spindly 25 inch quads, the front squat/leg sled/hack squat/leg extension/leg curl workout just is not going to cut it?

I ask because of somebody with the quad size you have tells me that, well, then, I will definitely try to do something to get weight on my back again instead of on the front of my shoulders.
 
malfeasance said:
So, last night, I decided just to do two sets of front squats, with the second set being a drop set as outlined above in the last sentence quoted. I put 235 on the bar, and did 6 difficult (for me) reps. On the second set, I still managed, barely, to get 6, mainly motivated by McDouche's comments about my "light weight." Grrrr . . . Anyway, I succeeded in getting the sixth rep up, racked the weight, and stripped off the first pair of 25s as quickly as I could, dumping them on the rubber mats, placing myself back under the bar, and front squatting with the new weight of 185.

Gasp! I got only 4 reps, and I almost did not get the fourth one up.

I ran around, gasping for air, and stripped off the second set of 25s. Now there is only a measly 135 on the bar. I got under the bar, started squatting, and, for the first rep or two, thought i might crank out a whole bunch of reps. No dice. By the sixth rep I was once again struggling. I managed to get a seventh, and I was completely out of gas. I then spent the next three minutes struggling to breath. I have never quite experienced anything like that three minutes. It was not like going for a run and breathing hard. I felt like I could not breath. My heart was pounding.

I went on to the leg sled and managed a decent showing, no drop sets. Hack squats, I was out of gas at this point, but did the best I could. Leg extensions went ok for three sets, and the leg curls seemed unaffected.

The drop set kicked my butt.
Click to expand...

Way to fight it out man. Every workout find a way to make it harder. Maybe next week do 235x2x4. You're getting 8 reps at 235 instead of 6 that way. The next week you can try 235x2x5.

Keep pushing it. Leg training is hard.
 
Get Shredded!
Augustine5I said:
I think the front squats will always limit you (even if you manage to put up another 25 pounds, say 255 for 6 reps, you will still not have the size because it is not heavy enough. And that could take you 6 months). Need to push heavy weight. Not going to have good size squatting less then 300 pounds whether it's front or rear.
Click to expand...
I hear you. It sounds like you are on board with Dema and TouaregV8. Ok, I will see if I can figure something out.

When my shoulder still had enough range of motion to do regular squats, I did 315 for sets of 15, but my legs were actually smaller than they are now. While I have no measurements to back up that statement, the pants I wore back then will not fit on my thighs now.

I know, I know, the answer is to have increased that 315 on up to a heavier weight . . .
 
malfeasance said:
Are you and Dema saying this because I absolutely have to do back squats? In other words, if I want to get larger than spindly 25 inch quads, the front squat/leg sled/hack squat/leg extension/leg curl workout just is not going to cut it?

I ask because of somebody with the quad size you have tells me that, well, then, I will definitely try to do something to get weight on my back again instead of on the front of my shoulders.
Click to expand...

Squats have been my "meat and potatoes" over the years. I am not saying that thick, dense quads cannot be built without them because Dorian Yates is a prime example of someone who didn't squat and had tree trunk quads, what I'm saying is that if you eliminate squats then you are eliminating a very important tool (in my opinion) from your tool box. Augustine had a very good point regarding front squats in that you just can't add enough weight to the movement for them to be an effective mass builder when compared to back squats. Forget about drop sets and high rep work or any of that fancy shit. Those are good techniques to change things up, but personally I wouldn't do it more than once every 6-8 weeks. Think heavy compound movements in the 6-10 rep ranges with constant progression on weight increases. Another thing that hasn't been touched upon yet is diet. You aren't going to thicken up your quads eating below, at, or slightly above maintenance. My quads grow best (and everything else) when I'm eating 500-800 cals above maintenance daily with loads of carbohydrates. To build mass you are also going to have to realize that some body fat is going to come along with it. We can work on getting rid of that later.

I've posted this before in my "recent pic" thread, but here's my current quad routine and an example of the weights I'm currently using:

Leg extensions; (warm up purposes just to get the blood flowing and warm up the knees for the torture that is coming) 70lbsx20 reps (4 sets)
Squats; typically 5-6 working sets, 135x15, 135x15, 225x12, 315x10, 365x8, 405x6-8, 455x6, 475x3-4, I don't count the first 2 sets as I consider them a warm-up. I do not do each set to failure, I always leave a little gas in the tank for the final two sets.
Hammer Strength horizontal leg press (single leg); 4 sets, 180x12-225x10-270x10-315x8
Hack squats; 4 sets, (not sure what the sled weighs) 225x10-315x10-405x8-405x8
 
Thanks, TouaregV8. Yeah, I was overeating the last few months. I am twenty pounds heavier than a year ago (in my avatar), but I put on fat. Recently, I have been eating right at about maintenance and using a little cardio to add a deficit. It has hardened me up a little, leaning my midsection, while keeping my bodyweight about the same. I can't stand getting fat . . .

Those hack squat weights, crap, I would be pinned down to the platform and need to be extricated . . .

What do your thighs measure?
 
27" currently. I lost an inch due to my cut.
 
Here was today's quad workout:

Leg extensions; 4 sets, single leg, 55lbsx20 reps
Squats; 135x15, 135x15, 225x12, 315x10, 365x8, 405x6, 405x8(knee wraps). I decided not to go up any higher after doing 405 as it felt real good so I wanted to get some reps in with it. I was planning on doing one more set but previous set whipped me pretty good so I called it quits there.
Hammer Strength horizontal leg press; 4 sets, single leg, 180x12-225x10-270x10-315x8
LifeFitness selectorized leg press; 4 sets, feet close together, 190x15, 290x12, 290x10, 350x10, 350x8
 
McDouche said:
Way to fight it out man. Every workout find a way to make it harder. Maybe next week do 235x2x4. You're getting 8 reps at 235 instead of 6 that way. The next week you can try 235x2x5.

Keep pushing it. Leg training is hard.
Click to expand...
Had a family tragedy over the weekend, so I took a few days off from the gym. When I went back last night, I decided I should do legs, since that is my focus right now. I increased the front squat weight to 245, and did three sets, 6, 5, and 4.

So when this thread started, I was at 225, went to 235, and now 245. Not much, I know, but it's progress. I will keep at it. My cycle just ended, though, so we'll see whether I can keep advancing on the weight.
 
Safety squats work my quads less than back squats and front squats.
 
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