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2nd cycle for hardgainer

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Luke_physique

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Get Shredded!
Quick intro: 176lbs. 5'9", about 11% body fat. Clean diet, train hard. I just finished my first cycle of just 500mg a week of test E and I loved it. Nothing but positive results. Lean gains, shredded up, no sides. Perfect. Pct was nolva 40/40/20/20. I ran letro at .3mg/ml for about three weeks due to gyno caused by a shitty prohormone I took about a year ago.

My next cycle I'm looking to stay lean while putting on quality muscle I can keep.

I'm looking for my next cycle. I have two schools of thought:

First cycle idea for 10 weeks

250mg Test E /week
400mg Tren E /week
400mg masteron E /week.

Second cycle idea for 20 weeks

750mg Test E /week
500mg eq /week

I'm looking for thoughts/comments on which cycle would be the best for quality gains and best for my body. If you have any other ideas on what a 2nd cycle should look like, please post.
 
Personally brother I wouldn't be hitting tren on a second cycle. Id say use two compounds maximum.

Now you know how you respond to test e. Add another compound if you want.

Maybe

Test E 500/week

Deca 400/week

Deca won't hit you as hard as tren with sides. If you control estrogen you won't have any D problems what so ever. If you could get legit NPP Id personally use the NPP over deca.

It can be shot twice a week at 3.5 days and still be active.
 
My vote is also for test/npp.
Npp lets you train hard = more muscle.
But diet is still the key.
Lets see it.
 
NattyAsGraham said:
Personally brother I wouldn't be hitting tren on a second cycle. Id say use two compounds maximum.

Now you know how you respond to test e. Add another compound if you want.

Maybe

Test E 500/week

Deca 400/week

Deca won't hit you as hard as tren with sides. If you control estrogen you won't have any D problems what so ever. If you could get legit NPP Id personally use the NPP over deca.

It can be shot twice a week at 3.5 days and still be active.
Click to expand...

I agree with this ^^ depending on your goals you may look at just adding an oral to kickstart.
 
I'm a big advocate for long cycles so I like your school of thought there. At your experience level I do not feel it's necessary for you to jump up to 750mg of test yet. I have 20 years experience with AAS and 750mg of test is my typical weekly dose.

I like what Natty suggested and this would be my plan:
weeks 1-20: Test E or C @ 500mg/wk
weeks 1-18: Deca or NPP* @ 400mg/wk
*NPP will clear much quicker so this might be your best bet for recovery/PCT
 
All cycles should include some hcg unless you want raisins instead of balls hcg twice a week at 250iu minimum.
 
I don't know all that much about deca (just haven't sat down to research, I always do that before I start anything) but, will deca cause me to hold water/bloat? I would ultimately like to compete in a year (physique). But since it's summer, I'd like to stay decently shredded while still putting on that lean muscle. If deca is more for a "bulking" cycle (I say it like that because know guys can still put size on with a cutting cycle, at a slower rate) then I'll save deca for later in the year towards winter. I was recommend masteron because it's keeps you shredded, plus the test e. The tren for strength to grow. But you guys clearly have more experience.
 
Deca will bloat you yes. But the consensus with NPP is it avoids the bloat factor as water build up is much less.

Personally i and many others don't bloat in the least with NPP which is why I suggested it over deca.

Look Masteron won't shred you. That's a lie. Masteron will harden you up. Meaning it'll make your muscle look harder and grainer, but that only occurs at about -10 % body fat when you start hitting the low single digits is when it works it's magic.

Before that it's a waste. Tren will help you with strength and losing body fat.

But what you have to understand is many experienced members will tell you to shy away from tren until you've had a few cycles worth of experience.

It's an amazing drug but a horrible one with sides. Some members even here can't handle it at times. Sometimes they'll LASt 12 weeks other times 8 other times barely 4. I've seen it happen. Which is why we said avoid it until you HAVE to use it.

Which in my opinion with good NPP it's not needed.
 
Luke_physique said:
I don't know all that much about deca (just haven't sat down to research, I always do that before I start anything) but, will deca cause me to hold water/bloat? I would ultimately like to compete in a year (physique). But since it's summer, I'd like to stay decently shredded while still putting on that lean muscle. If deca is more for a "bulking" cycle (I say it like that because know guys can still put size on with a cutting cycle, at a slower rate) then I'll save deca for later in the year towards winter. I was recommend masteron because it's keeps you shredded, plus the test e. The tren for strength to grow. But you guys clearly have more experience.
Click to expand...
if your trying to do a lean bulk stay away from deca cause you can get the notorious deca bloat if nandrolone is what you want go with the npp..towards the summer i use test, with primo or masterone and even better tren if you can handle it...
 
What dosage of the npp? And test e?

- - - Updated - - -

And would npp just require a basic nolva pct or will I need an hcg
 
IML Gear Cream!
Keep the Test higher then the NPP that will keep your D going ;) manage estregon with an ai.

Exemestane is what I suggest, use blood work to know your level.

In terms of dosage 500 test and 400 NPP is fine.

You don't need massive doses of NPP to get it's beautiful strength gains ;)
 
Pct is fine using nolva. It's out of your system faster then test. So no problems there.
 
Ok. I have letro now. I could get aromasin easy though. I'll do some research on the npp and see what I think but it seems everyone agrees.
 
One more thing. With tren Ace, I've heard of the awful tren cough right after injection, that shit doesn't happen with npp does it?
 
Luke_physique said:
What dosage of the npp? And test e?

- - - Updated - - -

And would npp just require a basic nolva pct or will I need an hcg
Click to expand...
the proper way is to use hcg during a cycle to prevent testicular atrophy hcg during a cycle is atleast 250iu twice a week every 3.5 days you will also need clomid and Nolvadex after that cyle
And hcg after a cycle to bring back normal testosterone levels. You dont have to use it but to me it is a must. As far as the test at least 500mg and npp atleast 400mg devide the dosage and pin that twice a week.. you should also include an anti estrogen like aromasin during your cycle at 12.5mg a day
 
Last edited:
Ok. I pinned my test e twice a week with no problem.

Last thing, as far as sides go with the npp, anything I should be worried about? Especially when coming off?
 
If you control your estrogen with an ai you shouldn't have any issues with npp..and no shouldn't have any issues when coming off..
 
Do research but no not really. Look with NPP you shouldn't have any problems getting it up especially with your test higher.

BUT I would keep an AI on hand and check your level of estregon via bloods. That way you can counter estregon and that'll keep all sides off.
 
^ From everything I've read the school of thought has changed in regards to prolactin and NPP and whether it is the actual culprit for its sides.

The consensus now is estregon control will equal no side effects.
 
Maybe im wrong,but isnt npp just a shorter ester than regularly leaded deca?same nana different release?I have used deca for 18 years off and on,even use it in my cruise...Same concept with tren-a vs tren-e,right?
Now,personnal preference plays a huge part yes...I think tren-hex is stronger than e,but that could be me...As for the bloat,with dose between 300-400a/wk and a good AI,I never get bloated...
 
OK guys, last thing here will quick, if youll even see it. I decided to run test e @ 500mg /week and npp 400mg/ week. Ive seen online a lot of people start the test e two weeks before the npp and only run the npp for 8-10weeks. Does this seem right or should i just start both at the same time? Lastly, should i pin npp eod or twice a week with the test 3? ive seen both used.
 
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