Future Plans, learning, and precautions

Yo! not so "new" to the forums (signed up months ago), been learning and reading up a lot. Still a lot to learn and things I need to educate myself on. 1st off, yes I am young, 20 to be exact and openly accept any and all criticism and direction from senior members. I am not some stupid ass kid from the BB.com forum snooping around trying to kiss ass and learn how to fuck up my liver and nuts. Need serious members to educate me and teach me about AAS use and the benefits and risks associated with them. NOT looking to do any cycles or use AAS/PH AT THE MOMENT. Need to first learn more about the benefits and risks associated with the use.

Yes I'm new and young, but please hear me out as I am simply taking the necessary steps to educating and assuring myself in the subject of AAS/PH. Made mistakes like everyone else, and need to correct em. Used PH once, dont want to and probably wont use them ever again (H-Drol 6 week cycle; kept my gains, pct properly). Why not? heard AAS is safer. How? I read. This is not a kiss ass story about my life, Im here to learn and continue learning so please help me out so I dont fuck myself in the future. We can all get acquainted later.

First question: Bloodwork, yes ive read the stickies about cheap bloodwork. Need to know about choices on what I need to get tested on. So I was thinking, Lipids and Hormones, any specifics on hormones? I dont necessarily have access to those private labs and also dont have much choice (location). So it looks like Ill be goin to my GP to see whats up, any advice on this? I dont want it to seem awkward that im gettin bloodwork done on unnecessary things (for my age) but I need an outline on what my health looks like 8 months after use. I feel fine, look fine, and did most things right. I read the books, look at the sources, and learn about AAS in this forum. Why? I like it, its of interest and the science behind it is freakin awesome. I like learning about the human body and how it works, this is just one part of it and I hope you all understand that I have made my choice to use AAS in the future and would like to have your support and help when I find the time is right. Any and all comments are welcome. Thanks

I spaced your text into paragraphs to make it easier to read. Some answers for you:

Get bloodwork before you start if everything's normal. Testosterone levels should be somewhere between 500-700 ideally.

Get bloodwork 4 weeks after PCT and compare it to your pre-cycle bloodwork to make sure everything is ok. No values should be "out of range" or too different from your pre-cycle results (the ranges are written on the test results)

I suggest you go with privatemdlabs. It's only $50, which should work out cheaper than visiting a doc and having them write you up for it. Plus you get all the tests you need instead of having to convince the doc.

You want to get tested for - testosterone (total and free testosterone), estrogen/estradiol, LH and FSH. A lipids panel wouldn't be bad either.

Some questions for you - age, height/weight, training program and major lifts?

Any other questions?

Thanks Rainer I really appreciate it! ...was hopin someone would give me a legitimate answer without the scoulding or criticism, obviously you got the point so thanks for understanding.

So at 8 months it would be pretty useless to get bloodwork other than knowing what ive got now and general health? I pretty much would have no way of knowing if it was legit or bunk and also isnt the half life short on HDrol so its out in bout 3 months?
Stats according to date: 1/6/2013
Age: 20
Height: 5'6
Weight: 165
BF%: 16% ( i really doubt this cuz its on a digital scale, i needa get the calipers done but other than that its probably in that range)
Water%: 65% (once again digital scale but sounds close)
Training program: Heavy lifting. Finishing a bulk, we use 5/3/1 in some instances but majority of the time we just do the 1 part lol. each session is a mix of 5/3/1, GVT, and Linear Periodization.
Major Lifts:
Bench - 365lb
Squat - 585lb
Deadlift - 545lb

All of these lifts I could do when I was on Hdrol with maybe an increase of +10-20 on bench (got spot w 405 but i dont count that) and +30-50 on legs.
I still maintain these and my strength is back up (a lot) from pre contest Bodybuilding comp.

One of the dangers of AAS at your age is that you could stunt your growth, if that's something you're concerned about. The epiphyseal plates fuse in males as early as 17 or as late as 23. This is triggered by estrogen which will be produced in abundance by elevated testosterone. You may be able to control this with AIs and estrogen blockers, and perhaps even delay skeletal maturation (i.e. generate a longer growth period) if doses are aggressive, but this is risky business -- there are only limited studies on the effects. Another option is sticking to non-aromatizing anabolics such as anavar.

jem92 said:

Thanks Rainer I really appreciate it! ...was hopin someone would give me a legitimate answer without the scoulding or criticism, obviously you got the point so thanks for understanding.

So at 8 months it would be pretty useless to get bloodwork other than knowing what ive got now and general health? I pretty much would have no way of knowing if it was legit or bunk and also isnt the half life short on HDrol so its out in bout 3 months?
Stats according to date: 1/6/2013
Age: 20
Height: 5'6
Weight: 165
BF%: 16% ( i really doubt this cuz its on a digital scale, i needa get the calipers done but other than that its probably in that range)
Water%: 65% (once again digital scale but sounds close)
Training program: Heavy lifting. Finishing a bulk, we use 5/3/1 in some instances but majority of the time we just do the 1 part lol. each session is a mix of 5/3/1, GVT, and Linear Periodization.
Major Lifts:
Bench - 365lb
Squat - 585lb
Deadlift - 545lb

All of these lifts I could do when I was on Hdrol with maybe an increase of +10-20 on bench (got spot w 405 but i dont count that) and +30-50 on legs.
I still maintain these and my strength is back up (a lot) from pre contest Bodybuilding comp.

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You should have at least one set of bloodwork from when you're "clean" and haven't done AAS in several months.
Hdrol usually isn't faked. You most likely got real stuff, and it's pretty easy to tell when it's working. Besides, bloodwork will only tell you if testosterone is real. Aside from that, it can only show if you're shutdown, but that doesn't prove that you were getting properly dosed/labelled gear.

Are you working with a strength coach? In a college sport? Are you tested?

Are you still seeing gains from month-to-month?

Post a pic, 16% and 165lbs sounds like too much fat for a +500lb DL and squat. Your BF reader might not be accurate.

How set are you on using AAS? Because honestly, as CM mentioned, you might still have an inch or two of height gain to be had. Growth plates are probably still open for you at 20. There are different sorts of less effective steroids you could use that wouldn't aromatize, but that's not to mention the other risks coming from starting young.
I can see you seem interested in doing this, and you're at an age where you'll be driven to it. I know there's a lot of competitive pressure there too. From what I've seen with other young forum members, there are very high chances of you just saying "fuck you guys" and doing what you want regardless of what we say about waiting. What's your mindset here? Realistically, can you wait a year or two?

If you really are going to do this now regardless of what we say, we obviously can't stop you, and I'm still willing to give you good advice. I would gain nothing from concealing knowledge from you and I don't want to see a fellow lifter fuck up and do something wrong (which is what happens with a good majority of people who start juicing "young"). Let me know what you think and we're willing to help.

chocolatemalt said:

One of the dangers of AAS at your age is that you could stunt your growth, if that's something you're concerned about. The epiphyseal plates fuse in males as early as 17 or as late as 23. This is triggered by estrogen which will be produced in abundance by elevated testosterone. You may be able to control this with AIs and estrogen blockers, and perhaps even delay skeletal maturation (i.e. generate a longer growth period) if doses are aggressive, but this is risky business -- there are only limited studies on the effects. Another option is sticking to non-aromatizing anabolics such as anavar.

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lol thanks, ive heard the Epiphyseal plates one a million times , thats one reason why i chose a methylated PH to reduce E conversion, didnt use AI so E reboud COULD have been bad, but fortunately for me the natty test boosters and aggressive diet and supplemet plan kept my E in control and brought my T back to normal. i know the consequences and i know the benefits involved. but like my post said, im NOT looking to cycle, also my question is in regards to bloodwork and future planning. so im basically over the whole age issue. now i just want to learn so as to apply later when i have the resources and am ready.

Interesting you say Anavar, ive thought about that but shits expensive and idk if i wana do orals. Needa learn bout pokes more, imo a lot safer and forces you to follow an appropriate schedule for training, diet, and health monitors. i.e. bloodwork lol

Sory Rainer will reply when I hav accessto a comp

RAINier said:

You should have at least one set of bloodwork from when you're "clean" and haven't done AAS in several months.
Hdrol usually isn't faked. You most likely got real stuff, and it's pretty easy to tell when it's working. Besides, bloodwork will only tell you if testosterone is real. Aside from that, it can only show if you're shutdown, but that doesn't prove that you were getting properly dosed/labelled gear..

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I know it was legit, i grew lol, among other things...

RAINier said:

Are you working with a strength coach? In a college sport? Are you tested?.

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nope, just me, i do/learn everything on my own but when i have a coach i listen and apply instantly but also test any coaches knowledge and wisdom. and no not tested for any sports, if i compete off island (oops gave away my location lol) then i would have to get tested, im pretty sure im clean now but when i decide to go stateside ill most likely be doing all kinds of shows. (this does not imply stripping shows)

RAINier said:

Are you still seeing gains from month-to-month?.

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Yes, and this is where you will probably say im fine and i dont need much, but youd be right. i dont feel ready for stabbing my ass but i know i can learn before i apply.

RAINier said:

Post a pic, 16% and 165lbs sounds like too much fat for a +500lb DL and squat. Your BF reader might not be accurate.

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no picture at the moment, but my profile was post competition and i think i was at about 9-10% with shit tons of post contest carbs n water. but im pretty sure the BF reader is wrong cuz fat dont flex and i can dish out some serious weight, this is also genetic. before hdrol i could hit heavy numbers, and now im maintaining a lot of the weights i move and my strength is actually goin up a tad bit.

RAINier said:

How set are you on using AAS? Because honestly, as CM mentioned, you might still have an inch or two of height gain to be had. Growth plates are probably still open for you at 20. There are different sorts of less effective steroids you could use that wouldn't aromatize, but that's not to mention the other risks coming from starting young.

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I understand the risk of not growing much more in height but i feel like i could give it another year, if i dont grow i could care less i actually like my height and am ok with it. i know about the methylated stuff, and i know that either way it can still impact my immune system and endocrine system, among other things.

RAINier said:

I can see you seem interested in doing this, and you're at an age where you'll be driven to it. I know there's a lot of competitive pressure there too. From what I've seen with other young forum members, there are very high chances of you just saying "fuck you guys" and doing what you want regardless of what we say about waiting. What's your mindset here? Realistically, can you wait a year or two?.

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1st off: i wont say "fuck you guys" and go off and do it on my own, im sure i can but im not as stupid as some of those guys you mention. what i am is ready and willing to learn beofre i make a choice and apply...for those kids you mention: "What the fool cannot learn, he laughs at, thinking that by his laughter he shows superiority instead of latent idiocy". thats how i see it.
Can i wait a year or two? sure, but that depends, cuz if i dont learn jack shit in a year or two then i would have gotten nowhere. now give me a year or two of learning more about it and how to apply it then my gains "might" be phenomenal. basically im willing to wait a year or more, depends on if i know im ready in more than 1 aspect of life no matter how much i feel like i need big ass muscles, some things need to be in check first.

RAINier said:

If you really are going to do this now regardless of what we say, we obviously can't stop you, and I'm still willing to give you good advice. I would gain nothing from concealing knowledge from you and I don't want to see a fellow lifter fuck up and do something wrong (which is what happens with a good majority of people who start juicing "young"). Let me know what you think and we're willing to help.

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Thanks Rainer, really. I appreciate it! What I want is to learn before I even consider using.

You have a good head on your shoulders. Ask away, brother.

Seems like you have everything you need to start aas. I think it is a matter of when you are ready to pull the trigger. Your stats are impressive. Your natural potential hasn't even been close toe met yet. Keep hanging out ald learning and you are on your way to a bright future.

Agreed, I am really happy I waited until I was 30 to start. I was MUCH more learned at 30 than I was when I really started working on regularly at 27. There are lots of good options you can consider between now and when you start pinning to get to your genetic maximum.

thanks guys, very much appreciated, glad ya'll took the time to listen and chime in. def. helps n u all get the point, fact is im mature about this and ive looked at it from most, not all, but most angles. so since ive got no specific time frame for starting, mainly because i can barely afford my food for my meals, ill start out with a few questions and gradually work my way up

1. ive heard it hurts after you pin, im guessing its inflamation? scale of 1-10 how bad?
2. half life is not dose dependent? by that i mean it dont matter how much of a drug you have, it will still reduce every "x" amount of hours?
3. cycles in relation to time. how would one set up a cycle according to how long they wana be on a compound? start out basic, like a simple Test cycle. do you factor in the ester, half life, and would you only need 1 set of bloodwork to determine your test levels, or do you just get that to see if its legit and its working then leave it alone and calculate how much your test would be at without the bloodwork? as in, bloodwork is just a reference, the rest is calculated or assumed that total Test is peaking.
4. how safe are the UG labs on this forum? ive read a lot and looked around, sounds legit but i still cant get the image of some big ass mofo makin roids in his garage with junk all over the floor, his project cars covered about 5 feet away from his work, and 2 big ass pitbulls barkin at his neighbors as they pass by in fear, out of my head lol.

1 there's a lot of variables to pip. Compounds, oils, ba,bb length and g of pin. And sometimes it hurts like hell and there is no rhyme or reason and the next time smooth like you couldn't tell anything had happened.
2 yes that is correct.
3 you are going to get a thousand different answers on this because every one is different and has different goals and AAS is so easily adapted to fit the user. There are truley endless possibilities.
4 this forum doesn't moderate the sponsors so it is at your own risk. But there are great board reps here and tons of feed back. Keep your eyes and ears open. Your smart you will figure out whis g2g

jem92 said:

lol thanks, ive heard the Epiphyseal plates one a million times , thats one reason why i chose a methylated PH to reduce E conversion, didnt use AI so E reboud COULD have been bad, but fortunately for me the natty test boosters and aggressive diet and supplemet plan kept my E in control and brought my T back to normal. i know the consequences and i know the benefits involved. but like my post said, im NOT looking to cycle, also my question is in regards to bloodwork and future planning. so im basically over the whole age issue. now i just want to learn so as to apply later when i have the resources and am ready.

Interesting you say Anavar, ive thought about that but shits expensive and idk if i wana do orals. Needa learn bout pokes more, imo a lot safer and forces you to follow an appropriate schedule for training, diet, and health monitors. i.e. bloodwork lol

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Something you might consider is x-rays to see if your plates have closed, making this a moot point in your scheduling.

Thanks Heavy Hitter and CM...CM you make a good point, i like that idea, sounds expensive but def. something i will have mapped out to see whats up! thanks for that ...
ok so something else.
Test. ive heard the old addage "Test is Best" and ive seen that a lot of guys use it as a base. so whats up? sounds like Test is the way to go? ive read the "First Cycle and Pct" thread and its seems like thats what its gona be so I have my mind set on Test in the future. any thoughts?
Oh and HCG...will that make ur nuts grow? or does it just maintain the size and LH production? and isnt it contradicting to force LH production and make test when your supping exogeneously so you become suppressed but at the same time forcing production?

jem92 said:

Thanks Heavy Hitter and CM...CM you make a good point, i like that idea, sounds expensive but def. something i will have mapped out to see whats up! thanks for that ...

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Glad to help, bro. Maybe health insurance will cover the x-rays? You'll have to convince your doc that it's a concern... no ideas on that though.

jem92 said:

Oh and HCG...will that make ur nuts grow? or does it just maintain the size and LH production? and isnt it contradicting to force LH production and make test when your supping exogeneously so you become suppressed but at the same time forcing production?

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No HCG nut growth that I've seen, but it's very nice for keeping them descended and up to size. HCG looks like LH to your testes, so that's how you convince em to keep humming along even while the exogenous test has shut down your pituitary's natural LH.

Lol! Yeah insurance mite do it, would b odd tho to tell my doc that i may have possibly fused epiphyseal plates. Mite look at me weird n wonder y Estrogen is a concern at my size lol!...ahh i see, so ur Pituitary is fuked regardless now wat bout GNRH what happens there and does the LH production from HCG help in any way wit the exogenous test? Or is HCG jus ther to keep ITT levels up n hav nothin to do w da free test for the muscles?........btw i figured out how to do this on my phone so i can finally reply at work lol!

jem92 said:

thanks guys, very much appreciated, glad ya'll took the time to listen and chime in. def. helps n u all get the point, fact is im mature about this and ive looked at it from most, not all, but most angles. so since ive got no specific time frame for starting, mainly because i can barely afford my food for my meals, ill start out with a few questions and gradually work my way up

1. ive heard it hurts after you pin, im guessing its inflamation? scale of 1-10 how bad?
2. half life is not dose dependent? by that i mean it dont matter how much of a drug you have, it will still reduce every "x" amount of hours?
3. cycles in relation to time. how would one set up a cycle according to how long they wana be on a compound? start out basic, like a simple Test cycle. do you factor in the ester, half life, and would you only need 1 set of bloodwork to determine your test levels, or do you just get that to see if its legit and its working then leave it alone and calculate how much your test would be at without the bloodwork? as in, bloodwork is just a reference, the rest is calculated or assumed that total Test is peaking.
4. how safe are the UG labs on this forum? ive read a lot and looked around, sounds legit but i still cant get the image of some big ass mofo makin roids in his garage with junk all over the floor, his project cars covered about 5 feet away from his work, and 2 big ass pitbulls barkin at his neighbors as they pass by in fear, out of my head lol.

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1) Depends on the gear. Good gear and proper injection technique should be no.
2) Correct
3) 100 different answers for this one
4) Most of them are very safe. I can't think of any bad sponsors that we currently have (and I say this as a user and not a mod). Go from recommendations from TRUSTED members and on how much people respect the reps. PM guys you trust for recommendations.

jem92 said:

Thanks Heavy Hitter and CM...CM you make a good point, i like that idea, sounds expensive but def. something i will have mapped out to see whats up! thanks for that ...
ok so something else.
Test. ive heard the old addage "Test is Best" and ive seen that a lot of guys use it as a base. so whats up? sounds like Test is the way to go? ive read the "First Cycle and Pct" thread and its seems like thats what its gona be so I have my mind set on Test in the future. any thoughts?
Oh and HCG...will that make ur nuts grow? or does it just maintain the size and LH production? and isnt it contradicting to force LH production and make test when your supping exogeneously so you become suppressed but at the same time forcing production?

Click to expand...

Test IS the way to go.
HCG will put your nuts back to normal size when on cycle (or prevent them from shrinking).
It's not counterproductive - getting the nuts back is more difficult than simply getting an LH response. So it's easier not to lose them in the first place.

- - - Updated - - -

jem92 said:

Lol! Yeah insurance mite do it, would b odd tho to tell my doc that i may have possibly fused epiphyseal plates. Mite look at me weird n wonder y Estrogen is a concern at my size lol!...ahh i see, so ur Pituitary is fuked regardless now wat bout GNRH what happens there and does the LH production from HCG help in any way wit the exogenous test? Or is HCG jus ther to keep ITT levels up n hav nothin to do w da free test for the muscles?........btw i figured out how to do this on my phone so i can finally reply at work lol!

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Don't get fired

LOL! wait the dont get fired response doesnt really answer the questions HAHA XD....but no i didnt get fired and no they wouldnt care. if anything it helps so i can teach them a thing or two about the human body and how it translates to diet n training.....
isnt HCG from dead baby fetuses and that gross stuff from womans vagina's after childbirth? lol
can i practice stabbing myself wth B12 shots?
ok so questions are one thing, now lets get with application and practice.
a cycle, teach me the basics of how to make one.
i know thers factors of :
age
weight
height
BF%
diet
training
Bloodwork
Lets get some dirt nasty math up in this bitch how we do dem calculations for all this shiz.

Your first cycle should be easy to calculate. I would recommend and I am sure many other will do the same. Start out with a simple test only cycle. I would recommend test e at 250mg every 4th day. When I do a cycle I will use the half life of the compound to determine my pins obviously. The goal is to keep your blood levels as stable as possible. So keep in mind if you are using short ester compounds like propionate you will need to pin accordingly. ED is fine or eod as long as you keep it consistent. It is the users preference really. Ok so back to the test e. The reason I do every 4th day verses say Monday Thursday. There are 7 days in a week and any were from 28 to 31 days in a month. Not a good way to split those in half. So if I started Monday the next pin day would be Friday then Tuesday of the nxt week then sat. And so on. The reason for keeping blood levels stable is IMO less side effects. As your blood levels fluxuate the sides become more prominent. Just like a women taking birth control to regulate their cycles. They take a pill at the same time everyday. Hormones can be tricky for me and I can usually tell if I have forgotten to pin. I keep a calendar but with the hustle bustle sometimes I will miss a pin day It takes about 3or 4 days before I realize I am in a pissy mood. I act like a little bitch. So If you just do a simple test e cycle the first time. It will give you quality gains and tell you how you handle it every one is different. You may love it need no ptc and decide to do it more often. Or you may love it but it gives you crazy acne. There are so many compounds and so many different body types. Then there is the mental end of it. Just like benchpressing 405 for me. I have done it a thousand times but everytime it is a mental deal for me. And everytime I do a prop cycle that first pin takes me some time. I have pushed my cycles back because I have had some arm numbing experience with different props over the years. I am sorry it was kind of scatterd. I hope that helped you a little bit.

ok well sounds simple, ill focus on the sticky "first cycle and pct" then since i wana just do test. By ED and EOD you mean everyday and every other day right? lol im sorry the only internet language i know is "lol".........i suck i know.......
keeping blood levels stable makes sense though i can understand this, my girl is on birthcontrol and i know when she misses one. i also remember when i would miss a pill on Hdrol i had felt "off" that day and if i took a higher dose my face would get oily.
Ok so ive got the book "Anabolics" by William Llewellyn 10th ed. read up on esters, didnt find anything on half life but then again i didnt go through all of it, im sure it mentions it somewhere so ill look it up on the forum real quick then get back to ya

here we go:
Test E half life - 10.5 days
free equivalent of steroid per 100mg - 72mg (28% of of weight is from ester)

so obviously every 4th day the drug will increase, but by 10.5 days it will have double the amount then experience half life degredation so 144mg by day 8 then cut back to 108mg by day 10.5 yes? (im assuming the first injection is the one that goes through half life degredation so only 1/4th of the total amount is cut) this continues over the entire cycle.
so peak testosterone never stops?
and are these calculation necessary?

jem92 said:

LOL! wait the dont get fired response doesnt really answer the questions HAHA XD....but no i didnt get fired and no they wouldnt care. if anything it helps so i can teach them a thing or two about the human body and how it translates to diet n training.....
isnt HCG from dead baby fetuses and that gross stuff from womans vagina's after childbirth? lol
can i practice stabbing myself wth B12 shots?
ok so questions are one thing, now lets get with application and practice.
a cycle, teach me the basics of how to make one.
i know thers factors of :
age
weight
height
BF%
diet
training
Bloodwork
Lets get some dirt nasty math up in this bitch how we do dem calculations for all this shiz.

Click to expand...

For hCG: In Pregnyl, Follutein, Profasi, Choragon and Novarel, it is extracted from pregnant urine. In Ovidrel, it is from microbes with recombinant DNA.
You could practice with B12 intramuscular injections if you want... it's not really that hard and becomes second nature after the first time.

For cycle, most people don't bother a huge deal with mathematical calculations. While there are formulas (half life or active life) and calculators for how much of a steroid will be in your bloodstream at any time, these numbers need something else to go along with them - what use is knowing there'll be xx amount of exogenous testosterone in you at Day 46 without other factors? Instead of doing mathematical calculations, I can tell you off the top of my head that an average testosterone enanthate (or any enanthate) cycle will really "kick in" at 4-5 weeks and that test cycles should be run for 10-12 weeks minimum. That deca should be run for 14 minimum, etc.
There's more like a rough body of knowledge that's passed down and modified with experience. We know that newbies can push out the greatest gains with a cycle along the lines of x at z dosage (for example), and that doubling the amount of x won't make any difference for them. We know from years and years of collective knowledge that x and z works best for newbies.
That on a second cycle, x should be modified unless x worked way better than expected for the person, in which case they could just repeat the cycle with minor changes.
That for somebody who's done 5 cycles, they're gonna need at least y amount to grow. etc. etc. (the letters don't mean anything, just examples)
So on and so on.
Eventually, after about 3 cycles, you'll get a feel for what works for you and what doesn't, because at that point, it's all down to the individual.
It's hard to explain, and that's the best way I can put it.

The different variables each come into account in different ways:
Weight - if a guy already has a ton of muscle mass or is at their genetic potential, they will need more gear to gain or simply hold onto gains.
Height and BF - helps us get a feel for how much muscle the guy is actually carrying when compared to weight. 180lbs and 10% at 5'7 is very different from 180lbs and 10% at 6'6.
Diet - if you're not eating right, that might be reason for stalled gains (and thus they may not need gear). Gear is also not very useful if you're not eating right anyway - if there aren't enough calories or protein "building blocks", what is the body going to add?
Also - diet comes into play when you're doing a bulk or cut cycle and doing "bulk" or "cut" drugs/compounds
Bloodwork: crucial for telling if you're in the right zone for estrogen, if you testosterone is dosed properly, etc.

Llewellyn's Anabolics is a great book. ED is every day, EOD is every other day.

RAINier said:

For hCG: In Pregnyl, Follutein, Profasi, Choragon and Novarel, it is extracted from pregnant urine.

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lol ok thats gross...but if it makes ur nuts happy i guess its ok?

RAINier said:

There's more like a rough body of knowledge that's passed down and modified with experience. We know that newbies can push out the greatest gains with a cycle along the lines of x at z dosage (for example), and that doubling the amount of x won't make any difference for them. We know from years and years of collective knowledge that x and z works best for newbies.

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and im guessing the reason why a lot of people have issues and you hear a lot of the old guys talk about it, is that newbies often think more is better and go with way high doses or really potent compounds?
So since thers no need for all that math stuff in regards to daily blood levels of test and whatnot, im guessing the bloodwork is just before, maybe mid, and after cycle? then after that its like just goin by feel and what happens daily? so instead of making things complicated its just like "fuckin do it" and see what happens. lol
Pituitary, GNRH, FSH, and LH...anti-E and AI, the role of these i understand now what about application to a cycle, would you just start when you see bitch tits growin or do you roll with it the day u start a cycle? im guessing it may be individual preference but whats general outline and rule of thumb to follow when administiring these drugs?
ill go look em up, but quick random question, can i just do AI and anti-E n let my nuts hang low lol? ive heard guys takin it (Torem for example) get sensitive nuts n they hang low. if i can hit my girls face with my nuts in doggy i would run that shit allllldayyyy everyyydayyyy....sorry i had to lol...

jem92 said:

Originally Posted by RAINier
For hCG: In Pregnyl, Follutein, Profasi, Choragon and Novarel, it is extracted from pregnant urine.

lol ok thats gross...but if it makes ur nuts happy i guess its ok?

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I gladly pin my gut twice a week with that delicious pregnant chick piss.

chocolatemalt said:

I gladly pin my gut twice a week with that delicious pregnant chick piss.

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oh man this shits getin nasty! bwahaha!...
now everyone says HCG is best SubQ inject. now is that just through the skin or does there gota be a lil fat on that? what happens to the guys who have like -1% (impossible i know, its an exagerated comment) bodyfat on their gut?

Disregard that last post i got the answer on my own. Readin the Anabolics book n it gives a lot of info.

jem92 said:

Pituitary, GNRH, FSH, and LH...anti-E and AI, the role of these i understand now what about application to a cycle, would you just start when you see bitch tits growin or do you roll with it the day u start a cycle? im guessing it may be individual preference but whats general outline and rule of thumb to follow when administiring these drugs?
ill go look em up, but quick random question, can i just do AI and anti-E n let my nuts hang low lol? ive heard guys takin it (Torem for example) get sensitive nuts n they hang low. if i can hit my girls face with my nuts in doggy i would run that shit allllldayyyy everyyydayyyy....sorry i had to lol...

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I like to take 12.5 aromasin EOD when on cycle, I find that's enough for me personally. If you notice estrogenic symptoms, bump it up to every day.
Some people prefer to wait until they get symptoms before taking any. Others like to do bloodwork to tune it exactly.

Never heard of the nuts and off cycle thing.

RAINier said:

Never heard of the nuts and off cycle thing.

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no im just messing around

ok so been doin research and i think im pretty set at what i needa do. first off (since this is the easiest option) ill work on "Priming" since its very similar to what my current diet schedule is going to be (going into a cut). eventually needa do bloodwork and try n do the xrays for my epiphyseal plates. continue to do research and focus on the factors i know i can control (diet, training, supplemets). might work with a "coach" in sometime. ill continue to check the forums if i have more questions ill ask, i trust your guys' advice, been really helpful and informative. If i do decide to do ANY hormonal cycles (ph/aas, anti-e, AI, insulin, etc) i will jump on here n get your guys' opinion.
Thanks everyone!