Scartissue
Registered
http://www.cdc.gov/injectionsafety/providers/provider_faqs_multivials.html
Subject: Are JUGS really safe or sterile for us to be using? Real cause for infection?
A lot of you guys who know me, will know that I haven't been on the boards in a while. The reason is, I've been out of the training scene after having a severe bacterial/fungal infection from using gear that was provided in a larger vial that we've come to refer to as 'jugs'. I don't care if this angers any sources, because the forum should be about user's and user safety before anyone's profits or product lines. The product and jug I was using was NOT from a source on this forum, but from a very reputable local brewer and he's been in the business for nearly a decade with a substantial set-up. However, the BEST brewing techniques and sterile procedures will not keep the customer from getting an infection if they're using a bottle for several months.
Science doesn't lie. As the Center for Disease Control and USP studies have shown, bacterial/fungal growth becomes detrimental and begins to pose a real risk of infection once a multi-dose vial is used outside of a 28 day range. Once we puncture the sterile environment of a vial, we've introduced bacteria to the environment. Regardless of gloves, alcohol swapping and any other procedure, it is no longer sterile once it's open as we all know.
However, many of us, myself included, never stop to think just how long we've ACTUALLY been using a punctured vial.
How safe is it for us to be using bottles that have been open SUBSTANTIALLY longer than the recommended safe guidelines?
For instance, let's use a Test Enanthate 250mg as a base line and assume it's being used at 2cc a week for 500mg/weekly dose.
10ml Vial - 5 weeks (35 days) - 7 days outside of bacteria growth guidelines
20ml Vial - 10 weeks (70 days) - 42 days outside of bacteria growth guidelines
30ml Vial - 15 weeks (105 days) - 77 days outside of bacteria growth guidelines.
60ml Vial - 30 weeks (210 days) - 182 DAYS BEYOND SAFE GUIDELINES.
We're injecting substances into our body that we're taking a leap of faith in trusting the brewers with as it is. Now on top of that, we're using punctured vials for weeks and even month(s) after the proven incubation period in which the amount of present bacteria now poses a real risk for infection?
I'm not trying to knock guy's business, but it's clear-cut that using a vial for WEEKS after it's been opened is just stupid. A 60ml of Test 250mg at a gram a week is still 105 days of exposure while the CDC and hospital facilities will not use a vial beyond 28 days. I lost a lot of muscle and tissue from a pretty necrotic infection from using a 60ml jug around the 12 week mark. Fresh syringes, fresh swap on each top, jug stored in pressured case, etc.
Think before you buy. If you're going to use a jug inside a SAFE time frame, then hell yeah take the deal, every dollar counts. If you're going to be hitting the jug 3,4,5...10 weeks after opening it? You're going to be in the same boat that I was.
Subject: Are JUGS really safe or sterile for us to be using? Real cause for infection?
A lot of you guys who know me, will know that I haven't been on the boards in a while. The reason is, I've been out of the training scene after having a severe bacterial/fungal infection from using gear that was provided in a larger vial that we've come to refer to as 'jugs'. I don't care if this angers any sources, because the forum should be about user's and user safety before anyone's profits or product lines. The product and jug I was using was NOT from a source on this forum, but from a very reputable local brewer and he's been in the business for nearly a decade with a substantial set-up. However, the BEST brewing techniques and sterile procedures will not keep the customer from getting an infection if they're using a bottle for several months.
Science doesn't lie. As the Center for Disease Control and USP studies have shown, bacterial/fungal growth becomes detrimental and begins to pose a real risk of infection once a multi-dose vial is used outside of a 28 day range. Once we puncture the sterile environment of a vial, we've introduced bacteria to the environment. Regardless of gloves, alcohol swapping and any other procedure, it is no longer sterile once it's open as we all know.
However, many of us, myself included, never stop to think just how long we've ACTUALLY been using a punctured vial.
How safe is it for us to be using bottles that have been open SUBSTANTIALLY longer than the recommended safe guidelines?
For instance, let's use a Test Enanthate 250mg as a base line and assume it's being used at 2cc a week for 500mg/weekly dose.
10ml Vial - 5 weeks (35 days) - 7 days outside of bacteria growth guidelines
20ml Vial - 10 weeks (70 days) - 42 days outside of bacteria growth guidelines
30ml Vial - 15 weeks (105 days) - 77 days outside of bacteria growth guidelines.
60ml Vial - 30 weeks (210 days) - 182 DAYS BEYOND SAFE GUIDELINES.
We're injecting substances into our body that we're taking a leap of faith in trusting the brewers with as it is. Now on top of that, we're using punctured vials for weeks and even month(s) after the proven incubation period in which the amount of present bacteria now poses a real risk for infection?
I'm not trying to knock guy's business, but it's clear-cut that using a vial for WEEKS after it's been opened is just stupid. A 60ml of Test 250mg at a gram a week is still 105 days of exposure while the CDC and hospital facilities will not use a vial beyond 28 days. I lost a lot of muscle and tissue from a pretty necrotic infection from using a 60ml jug around the 12 week mark. Fresh syringes, fresh swap on each top, jug stored in pressured case, etc.
Think before you buy. If you're going to use a jug inside a SAFE time frame, then hell yeah take the deal, every dollar counts. If you're going to be hitting the jug 3,4,5...10 weeks after opening it? You're going to be in the same boat that I was.
wned:
DP baby..
