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TouaregV8
12-01-2014, 04:35 PM
Had this blood work done on 11.26.14.
Current cycle is:
Test E 325mg E4D
Tren E 200mg E4D
Arimidex .25mgs ED

Cliffs:
AST, 67 U/L
ALT, 90 U/L. I'm not familiar with liver values. Do these look like anything to be concerned about. I've been taking Aleve off and on for a shoulder issue.
Red blood cells, 6.30 million/uL: I just did a double red blood cell donation on 10/22/14. Looks like another donation is in order.
Hemoglobin, 17.8 g/dL:
Hematocrit, 54.7%: I expected this to be up around the high side of the normal range based off of my RBC and hemoglobin, but I think the fact that my blood draw was done first thing in the morning after a 12 hour fast and no water didn't help matters. I already drink a gallon of water a day, looks like I'm going to try to get in more.
Estradiol, 47 pg/mL: I'm going to bump up my Adex to .5mg ED to see if that will help with the estradiol.
Total Test, 2003 ng/dL: Blood draw was done 3.5 days after 325 mg injection.

Any feedback that you fellas want to throw at me is welcome.

need2lift
12-01-2014, 04:59 PM
Liver values are elevated. I've seen way worse but what I'm trying to figure out is if the aleve is to blame....? Not an expert so I'm sure it's possible that it is the aleve.

uberdawg
12-01-2014, 06:58 PM
So your pinning roughly a little less than 650mg of test a week average.. How long were you on cycle when you had this test?

Unlisted
12-01-2014, 07:34 PM
i thought nsaids were processed through the kidneys...i could be wrong.....if your gonna continue this cycle id say keep your wwter i take up 1-2gal a day and maybe some liver support or nac and test again in a month.

is this the same cycle layout i saw that was like 30+ wks long? if so and your 20+ into it now maybe time to cruise and try and get everything stable then jump back on....your a monster anyway...lol slow down brother else ill never catch ya

BTC
12-01-2014, 07:44 PM
I think your ast and alt are fine. I have spoken with Heavy and s2h about my own liver enzymes and both have told me they are fairly worthless as markers for liver health. Just lifting heavy will elevate your liver enzymes. Nsaids are going to affect your kidneys not your liver.

If you are concerned with your enzymes you can add in some dandelion root. It is a great liver cleanser. I'd donate again. If its too soon for double red just give whole blood. baby aspirin once or twice a day will help with thinning that blood down.

TouaregV8
12-02-2014, 04:34 AM
So your pinning roughly a little less than 650mg of test a week average.. How long were you on cycle when you had this test?

My apologies, my test dosage should have read 375mg E4D. Tired when I posted last night. Was on cycle 16 weeks when I did the blood work.


is this the same cycle layout i saw that was like 30+ wks long? if so and your 20+ into it now maybe time to cruise and try and get everything stable then jump back on....your a monster anyway...lol slow down brother else ill never catch ya

Yes, same cycle. No time to slow down, just have to get the RBC, hemoglobin, and hematocrit under control.


I think your ast and alt are fine. I have spoken with Heavy and s2h about my own liver enzymes and both have told me they are fairly worthless as markers for liver health. Just lifting heavy will elevate your liver enzymes. Nsaids are going to affect your kidneys not your liver.

If you are concerned with your enzymes you can add in some dandelion root. It is a great liver cleanser. I'd donate again. If its too soon for double red just give whole blood. baby aspirin once or twice a day will help with thinning that blood down.

Thanks, BTC. This makes me feel better regarding potential liver damage. Does long term tren use affect liver values? I've read contradicting information.

l69lou
12-02-2014, 07:18 AM
I've often wondered about the issue of whether tren raises liver values . You're right the info is conflicting . So I did my own labs this past summer while on tren . My liver enzymes were just over where they usually are by about 10 digits . So for me only very slightly . Nsaids most def do stress the liver . Just read the back of these labels . One of the main causes of liver damage in the USA today is the abuse of NSAIDS and Tylenol . I know why you have to take them and i do as well but try and keep it down . Maybe a low dose of NPP for those joints instead . Also inflamation is a part of the bodies response to muscle stress and growth , bottom line use Nsaids sparingly . Now you already know your blood is too thick . My heart doctor told me to please keep my RBC at 5 or less and never to let my hematocrit get over 50 . It just put's too much stress on the heart . I'd do the asprin a day thing unless you have any contraindications . Since I started the asprin my hematocrit never pops 49 . One thing jumped out to me but no one else has commented on is your test numbers . 2003 on 750mg/wk of test e ? I know you did a split dose per week but still that's 750mg within 8 days . Seems low to me but obviously not protocol . How you guys can take tren for 4 months straight is beyond me !!!

l69lou
12-02-2014, 07:37 AM
just to clarify myself . Liver damage from nsaids is rare . It would be a cumulative thing and most damage is quickly repaired after cessation of use . Acetaminophen would me more of a culprit . As long as your dose is reasonable you should be fine .

BTC
12-02-2014, 09:19 AM
My apologies, my test dosage should have read 375mg E4D. Tired when I posted last night. Was on cycle 16 weeks when I did the blood work.



Yes, same cycle. No time to slow down, just have to get the RBC, hemoglobin, and hematocrit under control.



Thanks, BTC. This makes me feel better regarding potential liver damage. Does long term tren use affect liver values? I've read contradicting information.

Speaking solely for myself....4 weeks of tren ace shot my liver values to double what yours are. And my liver values never move otherwise. It also destroyed my HDL to almost single digits. Personally will never run it again. It doesnt do the magic for me like other people no matter the cycle, diet, training ect.
Anyways..... regarding Lou's comment on Nsaids and liver damage he may be right but my doctors always told me Nsaids are harsh for the kidneys. But even that is subjective because there have been times I would take 2 800mg motrin at a time 2-3 times a day(years ago) and my idneys never reacted. Yet I took the recommended dose of celebrex for 30 days (post surgery) and it almost destroyed my kidneys.
Personally I would blame the elevated enzymes on the tren. The aleve probably isnt moving any of the numbers on your bloods. I find liver and kidney issues with drugs ect highly individual. As I explained my experiences with motrin, I also know a guy who was prescribed 600mg motrin and after about 3 days ended up in the ER with kidney issues. Just like the people who drink gallons of alcohol weekly for decades and have no liver issues(my wife's mother the vodka slammin closet drunk for example)...60+ years of it and no liver problems. On dialysis though lol.

BTC
12-02-2014, 09:20 AM
just to clarify myself . Liver damage from nsaids is rare . It would be a cumulative thing and most damage is quickly repaired after cessation of use . Acetaminophen would me more of a culprit . As long as your dose is reasonable you should be fine .

^^^ Yes, this, and stay away from acetaminophen.

BTC
12-02-2014, 09:23 AM
BTW bro, I couldnt get the bloodwork big enough to read it, how are your lipids/triglycerides?

Skip Foursome
12-02-2014, 09:25 AM
I think your ast and alt are fine. I have spoken with Heavy and s2h about my own liver enzymes and both have told me they are fairly worthless as markers for liver health. Just lifting heavy will elevate your liver enzymes. Nsaids are going to affect your kidneys not your liver.

If you are concerned with your enzymes you can add in some dandelion root. It is a great liver cleanser. I'd donate again. If its too soon for double red just give whole blood. baby aspirin once or twice a day will help with thinning that blood down.

This is very true in my case. If I lift everyday right up to the blood draw I will have numbers like yours. If I take two days off prior to blood draw they come back normal. Nothing scientific about it just what I have observed.

Skip Foursome
12-02-2014, 09:34 AM
I've often wondered about the issue of whether tren raises liver values . You're right the info is conflicting . So I did my own labs this past summer while on tren . My liver enzymes were just over where they usually are by about 10 digits . So for me only very slightly . Nsaids most def do stress the liver . Just read the back of these labels . One of the main causes of liver damage in the USA today is the abuse of NSAIDS and Tylenol . I know why you have to take them and i do as well but try and keep it down . Maybe a low dose of NPP for those joints instead . Also inflamation is a part of the bodies response to muscle stress and growth , bottom line use Nsaids sparingly . Now you already know your blood is too thick . My heart doctor told me to please keep my RBC at 5 or less and never to let my hematocrit get over 50 . It just put's too much stress on the heart . I'd do the asprin a day thing unless you have any contraindications . Since I started the asprin my hematocrit never pops 49 . One thing jumped out to me but no one else has commented on is your test numbers . 2003 on 750mg/wk of test e ? I know you did a split dose per week but still that's 750mg within 8 days . Seems low to me but obviously not protocol . How you guys can take tren for 4 months straight is beyond me !!!

My liver enzymes were fine when running tren this last summer too.

chocolatemalt
12-02-2014, 09:39 AM
Does long term tren use affect liver values? I've read contradicting information.

Tren seems to raise my liver stress markers... just a pattern I've noticed, nothing rigorous. Over time watching the markers go up and down I've ruled out other causes like orals, heavy workouts, and alcohol so that's only left the tren to blame.


just to clarify myself . Liver damage from nsaids is rare . It would be a cumulative thing and most damage is quickly repaired after cessation of use . Acetaminophen would me more of a culprit . As long as your dose is reasonable you should be fine .

Reasonable is the key word. The average person can take about 4g/day without any liver stress, more like 3g or even less if you've got serious liver issues like cirrhosis or hep C damage. If you're a big adult male with likely a correspondingly above average liver, you can push that to 5 or 6g/day. (All of this advice comes from an MD btw.)

Of the acute liver failures seen in ERs in this country, around half of them (if I recall correctly) are caused by acetaminophen, making it the largest cause. Of that number, half of those are unintentional (btw if you're suicidally determined, do NOT use tylenol -- it involves a couple days of agonizing systemic failure before death) and nearly always are the result of mixing different drugs. You take a few tylenol for whatever ails you, but you might also take some cough syrup, some expectorant with "extras" like painkillers, and maybe some vicodin if you're really feeling shitty. All that stuff contains acetaminophen and bam you're easily at 10g or more for the day, flirting with liver failure. At 20g you're kinda guaranteed to wind up in the ER and maybe not survive.

TouaregV8
12-02-2014, 05:09 PM
Maybe a low dose of NPP for those joints instead . Also inflamation is a part of the bodies response to muscle stress and growth , bottom line use Nsaids sparingly . Now you already know your blood is too thick . My heart doctor told me to please keep my RBC at 5 or less and never to let my hematocrit get over 50 . It just put's too much stress on the heart . I'd do the asprin a day thing unless you have any contraindications . Since I started the asprin my hematocrit never pops 49 . One thing jumped out to me but no one else has commented on is your test numbers . 2003 on 750mg/wk of test e ? I know you did a split dose per week but still that's 750mg within 8 days . Seems low to me but obviously not protocol . How you guys can take tren for 4 months straight is beyond me !!!

Thanks for your feedback, Lou. I started on 320mg/wk of deca last Wednesday, the night after my blood draw. Definitely need to get the blood under control. I've been taking a low dose aspirin every 12 hours and have been drinking at least a gallon of water everyday. I'm going to look into doing another double red blood cell donation next week. There's a LifeSouth nearby that takes blood donations since I just donated to the American Red Cross in October.

You are right about my total test level. This jumped out at me as well but I didn't mention it because the test I'm currently running is from a source from another board that is no longer in business…I wonder why...


BTW bro, I couldnt get the bloodwork big enough to read it, how are your lipids/triglycerides?


This is very true in my case. If I lift everyday right up to the blood draw I will have numbers like yours. If I take two days off prior to blood draw they come back normal. Nothing scientific about it just what I have observed.

I didn't add the lipid panel on this test. I have a yearly physical with my doctor next month and will have those checked then. I have a feeling my lipids are a mess though...

johnjohn
12-02-2014, 05:24 PM
I can't wait on my next cycle for sure DECA will be in this because everyone says DECA is good on the joints

dylanvib4
12-03-2014, 07:30 AM
http://s18.postimg.org/qr1hrfu1l/2014_12_03_11_18_47.jpg

ttp://s14.postimg.org/i7eajpakh/2014_12_03_11_20_49.jpg

Hopefully these turn out a little better

dylanvib4
12-03-2014, 07:31 AM
Page 2

http://s8.postimg.org/h4qbwc0j9/2014_12_03_11_20_49.jpg

TouaregV8
12-03-2014, 08:23 AM
Thank you, dylan.

maddad
12-20-2014, 09:22 PM
I have blood work results due early next week. I can't wait to see the numbers and will post. My daughter had mono, her liver enzymes were like 400 something and a 600 something and the pediatrician was not the least bit concerned. Knowing what i know from this board when she said the values i nearly passed out but the doctor said that the enzymes are levels of activity and not actual damage. Obviously if we ran a harsh oral for to long it will translate into damage.

REHH
12-21-2014, 03:43 AM
Some good info here.

Bloods done yesterday for me, hoping for good report.