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ALT and AST Values

techfire35

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Get Shredded!
Wondering if this has happened to anyone. I'm 4 weeks into my 2nd tren E/test E/masteron E cycle taking 500 mg test and 400 mg of Tren and Masteron. Had blood work done and the results showed my ALT Value @ 102 and my AST value @ 68 that's 2 x higher atleast than normal. Has this happened to anyone else? Do I promptly stop the cycle or is this normal and will the levels drop after my cycle is up. Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks yall
 
That's kind of high for injectables only. Did you have a workout right before your blood draw? Sometimes if you have a intense workout right before, either weights or high intensity cardio can temporarily cause in increase in liver values, and that's not a concern.

Other than that, some of the things I would look at... What supplements are you taking? Are you taking any acetaminophen or naproxen products? Alcohol intake? Peptides?
 
Very lil alcohol. Maybe 6 beers a week tops and that's not every week. I take alot of BC powders, sometimes up to 10 a day and have for 20 uears, dumb I know. I take 2 phentremine 37.5 a day for 15 days then off 15 took the last 2 the day before the test. I take 2-3 5 hour energy a day. That day I was fasting but ate 2 cookies. They also said my urine showed alot of protein. Does any of this help or make more sense to you? I can't thank you enough for your reply man.
 
TonyMack has a good question regarding workout just before blood draw. I have a similar experience when blood is drawn just after workout but not quite that high.

I have been on injectables only and had ALT in the 80s having blood drawn just after workout.

What you are seeing is a little higher than normal but nothing to get too excited about.

How much longer you running your cycle? If just another 4 weeks I say finish it out. If another 8 weeks maybe get blood drawn in another few weeks.
 
No workout at all skipped it that day. I'm guessing I have another 8 weeks. What I didn't mention is i started on all A esters. So when I got the E esters I front loaded the E's with the A's I was pinning the A eod. So on some days I was actually pinning 100 A with 200 E of each. Not sure if that would effect it or not. Now I'm strictly on just the E. And was on 875 penicilin a day for a ear infection. Thanks tons for ur reply. Btw I'm only using milk thistle for liver support, not sure if that helps
 
Very lil alcohol. Maybe 6 beers a week tops and that's not every week. I take alot of BC powders, sometimes up to 10 a day and have for 20 uears, dumb I know. I take 2 phentremine 37.5 a day for 15 days then off 15 took the last 2 the day before the test. I take 2-3 5 hour energy a day. That day I was fasting but ate 2 cookies. They also said my urine showed alot of protein. Does any of this help or make more sense to you? I can't thank you enough for your reply man.

BC Powder? As in the pain reliever? 10 per day is no good. It has caffeine in it and if you need the caffeine to function, find a source that doesn't have NSAIDS (not that it would affect liver values, but not good for the stomach long-term).

For protein in the urine... what were your BUN & Creatinine Ratio?

I'd drop the Phentermine and re-test in 4 weeks. I don't think the injectables are the issue.

Oh, on a side note, I'd recommend at least 300 mgs of CoQ10 daily for liver and heart support.

Do you like the 5 hr energy shots? I've never used them cause it's just overpriced for what it is, in my opinion. Plus I prefer espresso for my caffeine source.
 
No workout at all skipped it that day. I'm guessing I have another 8 weeks. What I didn't mention is i started on all A esters. So when I got the E esters I front loaded the E's with the A's I was pinning the A eod. So on some days I was actually pinning 100 A with 200 E of each. Not sure if that would effect it or not. Now I'm strictly on just the E. And was on 875 penicilin a day for a ear infection. Thanks tons for ur reply. Btw I'm only using milk thistle for liver support, not sure if that helps

Ester shouldn't matter.

I'm not a big fan of milk thistle because of the androgen receptor down-regulation.
 
BC Powder? As in the pain reliever? 10 per day is no good. It has caffeine in it and if you need the caffeine to function, find a source that doesn't have NSAIDS (not that it would affect liver values, but not good for the stomach long-term).

For protein in the urine... what were your BUN & Creatinine Ratio?

I'd drop the Phentermine and re-test in 4 weeks. I don't think the injectables are the issue.

Oh, on a side note, I'd recommend at least 300 mgs of CoQ10 daily for liver and heart support.

Do you like the 5 hr energy shots? I've never used them cause it's just overpriced for what it is, in my opinion. Plus I prefer espresso for my caffeine source.

I used to use 5 hour energy and it is like espresso as far as energy goes. It may last a little longer but you really are not missing anything. I stopped taking 5 hour energy a long time ago and do not miss it.
 
I know a lot of people are geeked up on milk thistle but I just don't see it. These compounds we ingest and/or inject plus liver cells are too complex for some herb to have an actual effect.......in my humble opinion.

If you are concerned about liver health don't abuse your liver and give it lots of time off between cycles.
 
I know a lot of people are geeked up on milk thistle but I just don't see it. These compounds we ingest and/or inject plus liver cells are too complex for some herb to have an actual effect.......in my humble opinion.

If you are concerned about liver health don't abuse your liver and give it lots of time off between cycles.

Agree completely. Best way to protect yourself from cycling is to have a good baseline health and be responsible on cycle and off.
 
Maybe I didn't cycle off long enough. I ran 2 bottles of the tren e and test e combo then took 6 weeks off
 
ADVANCED CYCLE SUPPORT Rx™

http://www.ironmaglabs.com/product-list/advanced-cycle-support/

Liver/Organ/Lipid Support Formula




-Complete 'On Cycle' Prohormone Support
-Protects the Liver & Major Organs
-Improves Lipid Profiles
-Decreases Blood Pressure
-Prostate Support

ADVANCED CYCLE SUPPORT Rx™ contains 7 key ingredients for complete 'on cycle' protection.

advanced-cycle-support-facts.jpg


Milk Thistle (Silybum marianum) - One function of the liver is to detoxify and remove toxins, including heavy metals and chemotherapy, from the body. Milk thistle is a liver protective. It is an antioxidant that helps repair damaged liver cells. Studies have shown evidence that silymarin acts almost solely on the liver and kidney. The antioxidant properties in silymarin are believed to be the protective factors. Laboratory studies demonstrate that silymarin functions as a potent antioxidant, stabilizes cellular membranes, stimulates detoxification pathways, stimulates regeneration of liver tissue, inhibits the growth of certain cancer cell lines, exerts direct cytotoxic activity toward certain cancer cell lines.

NAC (N-Acetylcysteine) - NAC can help to prevent damage to the liver being a powerful anti-oxidant and cell detoxification co-factor, NAC works to eliminate your body of free radicals and heavy metals. N-Acetyl-Cysteine is currently the dietary supplement of choice for building up cysteine or conserving the body's store of Glutathione, Cysteine and other Sulfhydryl anti-oxidant resources. This is very crucial for the body's life functions, as NAC helps the body neutralize toxins, heavy metals, such as mercury.

Hawthorne Berry - is highly recognized herb for the heart and cardiovascular system. It has the ability to dilate (enlarge or open) the coronary arteries (the vessels that supply blood to the heart), thus improving blood and oxygen supply to the heart muscle. It also strengthens the hearts pumping ability (muscle), helping the heart to beat more forcefully and efficiently. In addition, hawthorne appears to dilate the highways of other blood vessels around the body, thereby allowing blood to circulate more freely with less strain on the heart. Another benefit of hawthorne berry is that it harbors potent antioxidant properties, which are believed to exert cholesterol lowering effects and reduce the accumulation of fatty plague in the arteries – the hallmark of atherosclerosis.

Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens) - is used popularly in Europe for symptoms associated with benign prostatic hypertrophy (enlargement of the prostate). Although not considered standard of care in the United States, it is the most popular herbal treatment for this condition. Saw palmetto was listed in the United States Pharmacopeia from 1906 to 1917 and in the National Formulary from 1926 to 1950. Saw palmetto extract is a licensed product in several European countries. Multiple mechanisms of action have been proposed, and saw palmetto appears to possess 5-?-reductase inhibitory activity (thereby preventing the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone). Hormonal/estrogenic effects have also been reported, as well as direct inhibitory effects on androgen receptors and anti-inflammatory properties.

Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) - boosts energy, enhances the immune system, and acts as an antioxidant. Clinical research suggests that using coenzyme Q10 supplements alone or in combination with other drug therapies and nutritional supplements may help prevent or treat some of the following conditions: Heart disease, High blood pressure and High cholesterol. Researchers believe that the beneficial effect of CoQ10 in the prevention and treatment of heart disease is due to its ability to improve energy production in cells, inhibit blood clot formation, and act as an antioxidant. Several clinical studies involving small numbers of people suggest that CoQ10 may lower blood pressure. Levels of CoQ10 tend to be lower in people with high cholesterol compared to healthy individuals of the same age.

Celery Seed Extract - 3nB is the active compound that is unique to celery. 3nB was discovered as the active component of celery in response to investigations by researchers seeking to explain some of the medicinal effects of celery including the lowering of blood pressure and the relief of arthritis. High blood pressure is usually the result of too much fluid there is in your blood and how flexible or resistant your blood vessels are. Retention of sodium (salt) leads to increase fluid volume in the blood while hardening of the arteries and the hormones released during stress lead to loss of flexibility or constriction of blood flow. In treating high blood pressure, doctors usually prescribed diuretics (water pills) to reduce the fluid volume and vasodilators to relax the arteries to reduce the resistance of blood flow or beta-blockers to turn down the pumping action of the heart. 3nB appears to help lower blood pressure by both acting as a diuretic and vasodilator through impacting the production of prostaglandins as well as acting in a similar manner to drugs known as calcium-channel blockers. 3nB has also been shown to lower blood cholesterol levels and reduce the formation of arterial plaque in experimental studies. This effect may increase the elasticity of the blood vessels and also lead to lower blood pressure readings. 3nB also appears to promote some effects on areas and systems of the brain that control vascular resistance.

Grape Seed Extract - is a natural plant substance that has a concentrated source of oligomeric proanthocyanidins (OPC). These anti-oxidants help protect cells from free radical damage and also promotes healthy circulation. Grape Seed Extract is rich in polyphenols, a compound that's high in antioxidants. Studies have shown OPC to be more powerful antioxidants than vitamin C, E, and beta-carotene. There are countless studies that demonstrates the many health benefits of grape seed extract. It has been extensively researched across the globe. In the research of Dr. Jacques Masquelier et al., the Pasteur & Huntington Institutes and 7 other leading Universities in Europe, Grape Seed Extract has been shown exceptionally effective fighting against free radicals in the body.
 
^^ thats a super comprehensive product for organ health...


I'd like to add to the milk thistle naysayers... silymarin is the go-to treatment in hospitals for acute liver damage due to mushroom poisoning. Its not a bullshit/bro science.
 
^^ thats a super comprehensive product for organ health...


I'd like to add to the milk thistle naysayers... silymarin is the go-to treatment in hospitals for acute liver damage due to mushroom poisoning. Its not a bullshit/bro science.

Right....But you don't want it while you are on AAS.
 
Get Shredded!
Can that be purchased at a store Silymarin?


silymarin is the active ingredient in milk thistle man... the cycle support heavy posted is more complete ...it includes stuff scientifically backed to support prostate, liver, kidneys and bp/heart health
 
you're welcome...

as to the thoughts on silymarin reducing testosterone..it does..in rats that aren't on AAS

http://egyptianjournal.net78.net/13_10.pdf

That's interesting, I've never heard of milk thistle reducing serum testosterone in rats. I guess that's plausible.

It has been shown to inhibit the function of androgen receptors in the human prostate. Now, whether that effect is seen outside the prostate is less clear.

[h=1]Silymarin inhibits function of the androgen receptor by reducing nuclear localization of the receptor in the human prostate cancer cell line LNCaP[/h]
+Author Affiliations
  • Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology and Department of Urology, Mayo Graduate School, Mayo Clinic/Foundation, Rochester, MN 55905, USA

  • Received January 31, 2001.
  • Accepted May 10, 2001.
  • Revision received April 26, 2001.

[h=2]Abstract[/h]A number of reports have shown that the polyphenolic flavonoid silymarin (SM) is an effective anticancer agent. Agents with novel mechanisms of blocking androgen receptor (AR) function may be useful for prostate cancer prevention and therapy. Previous studies showed that silibinin (SB), the major active component of SM, could inhibit cell proliferation of a human prostate cancer cell line, LNCaP, by arresting the cell cycle at the G[SUB]1[/SUB] phase without causing cell death. This study further delineates the potential molecular mechanism by which SM and SB exhibit antiproliferative effects on androgen-responsive prostate cancer cells by inhibiting function of the AR. We observed that SM and SB inhibited androgen-stimulated cell proliferation as well as androgen-stimulated secretion of both prostate-specific antigen (PSA) and human glandular kallikrein (hK2). Additionally, for the first time, we show that an immunophilin, FKBP51, is androgen regulated and that this up-regulation is suppressed by SM and SB. We further demonstrate that transactivation activity of the AR was diminished by SM and SB using gene transfer of PSA promoter and hK2 androgen-responsive element constructs. However, expression and steroid-binding ability of total AR were not affected by SM in western blotting and ligand-binding assays. Intriguingly, we found that nuclear AR levels are significantly reduced by SM and SB in the presence of androgens using western blotting assay and immunocytochemical staining. This study provides a new insight into how SM and SB negatively modulate androgen action in prostate cancer cells.
 
its actually been pretty clear that there has been no adverse effects in repeated studies
 
I'll add to that tho..people with rag weed allergies should try a very conservative dose initially and assess for allergies. ..it can illicit a histamine response in some people.
 
Is it normal to have pain in the liver. I don't know if it's got in my head now but I'm stopping the tren. May ride the test and masteron out
 
usually pain felt around the right upper quadrant is gall bladder..its typically made worse by a fatty meal

or in other words...I think imagined liver pain might be in your head sir

a tablespoon of epsom salts chugged in a glass of water will make you poop, relaxes smooth muscle in the bile duct , dumping bile and usually making your gall bladder feel better
caveat..if you have large gall stones it can cause a large stone to become trapped in the bile duct, which is excruciating and will make you pee the color of coffee
 
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