Does steroids help with joint pain like tendentious?

I have been suffering from on and off tendentious for a year of more now. I had deep muscle tendentious that final went away after 8 months and now i have like tennis elbow. Does steroids cure / get rid of this? I know when my dog gets huge or breaks out from allergies, the Dr gives her prednisone (steroid) and it fixes her right up. Seems like I'm sore fore 4 days after a good session now and i want to start my cycle this coming Monday. Should i take time off before i cycle or should i go and hope for the best. I just don't want anything to stop my gains form this cycle. I guess I'm just getting old...

You'll hear a lot of guys talking about Deca or NPP for this. Some will even talk up EQ, but there is little evidence to support EQ.

Anecdotally, I have found tremendous benefit of taking high doses (3,000+ mgs daily) of Bromelain to support my tendons.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20623610

My own opinion, take it for what's it's worth - I'd stay away from Var. Tendons are 90+% Type I Collagen and... well just read the study below:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17364004

Yes, even Test will improve the strength of your tendons but nothing is going to help your joints out like NPP or Deca. If you have never cycled before then I would consider sticking to Test only and find joint supplements.

my knees and ankles ache from the military( rucking and being flat footed) NPP makes the pain go away completely. Area always cracks and pops Npp lubricates the joints is the best way to explain it,
Helps my elbows and wrist as well from cracking popping etc etc

Yes they will assist.. There is no cure, there's simply aiding and assisting..some repair themselves, others simply manage better without further degenerative properties...
When people think their joints are tissue related issues are cured that is when they're in for a big surprise..In most cases it genetics!

TonyMack said:

You'll hear a lot of guys talking about Deca or NPP for this. Some will even talk up EQ, but there is little evidence to support EQ.

Anecdotally, I have found tremendous benefit of taking high doses (3,000+ mgs daily) of Bromelain to support my tendons.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20623610

My own opinion, take it for what's it's worth - I'd stay away from Var. Tendons are 90+% Type I Collagen and... well just read the study below:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17364004

Click to expand...

Some good info. Im gonna have to pick some of that Bromelain up and give it a try.


What is NPP? Not familiar with that. No Deca for me quite yet. I gotta get my feet wet first ;-)


Thanks guys

NNP is the short ester of the Decanoate ester

There is some medical research to back up claims of NPP helping with Type 1 Collagen and Fibroblasts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14551935

But, there is also some conflicting data on the strength of tendons:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24796826

Here's another one of interest. Although, I'm not really sure if the study showed a positive result on tendon strength, or if the changes resulted in a larger and less strong tendon.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24796826

There are a ton of studies out there, but like the one above, it's hard for me to discern if the changes to the underlying tendon/fibril/tenocyte composition are beneficial.

I'm always glad to see questions like this. I like to read dialog of some of the members of the board with a deeper science background, and I would like a better understanding as there is a lot of bro-science that is floating around the boards on this topic.

I would also like to add that simple supplements like fish oil, krill oil also can work wonders. Swimming and cycling are two activities that I highly promote for people with joint problems as the impact on the joints for those activities are extremely low while the results that come from swimming and biking can be: fat loss, lean body muscle, increased cardio and strengthening tendons.

If I remember correctly, nandrolone and EQ increase collagen synthesis and are supposed to help tendon strength. I think testosterone was shown to inhibit tendon collagen synthesis to some degree. This study doesn't say which AAS was injected but shows a decrease in repair of tendons in rats injected with AAS and exercising...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16636352/?i=6&from=/23620489/related

Also, winstrol showed in a increase in collagen synthesis but made connective tissue less flexible and more prone to injury IIRC...


I'm trying to find the other info on % of collagen synthesis increase or decrease but haven't found it yet.

I started by answering the question in general terms, based on the research I have done and in my own personal experience, but obviously it's a very complex issue. Perhaps to answer your specific question and give you cycle advice, you should post up your details: age, cycle history, weight, trt status etc.

I think a lot of guys that started cycling/TRT later in life, after suffering from low T have experienced positive effects on connective tissue in general. So there's that.

You may also have someone with experience help you on your form while lifting. I think there's a lot for you to consider, and may not be as simple as "are steroids good for tendons".

Great point Tony - more info provided the better feedback you can get. Form and technique also play a huge role in safe gaurding your joints. Before you start throwing drugs against a wall to see what sticks I would first evaluate the diet, lifting form and go from there. Remeber that elevated cotrisol levels from foods and stress also contribute to joint pain.

Deca or NPP will do it, Npp kicks in faster than Deca but is also out of your system faster so your joint pain will be back sooner. With Deca my joints are usually good for 2 months post cycle. EQ didn't so squat for my sore joints.

TonyMack said:

There is some medical research to back up claims of NPP helping with Type 1 Collagen and Fibroblasts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14551935

But, there is also some conflicting data on the strength of tendons:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24796826

Here's another one of interest. Although, I'm not really sure if the study showed a positive result on tendon strength, or if the changes resulted in a larger and less strong tendon.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24796826

There are a ton of studies out there, but like the one above, it's hard for me to discern if the changes to the underlying tendon/fibril/tenocyte composition are beneficial.

I'm always glad to see questions like this. I like to read dialog of some of the members of the board with a deeper science background, and I would like a better understanding as there is a lot of bro-science that is floating around the boards on this topic.

Click to expand...

I have an extensive background in sports injury rehab with 12 years experience in clinical settings. I would be happy to have a read and chime in. I did my undergraduate degree in human kinetics and movement sciences. I'll have a read and get back to you


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TR71 said:

I have an extensive background in sports injury rehab with 12 years experience in clinical settings. I would be happy to have a read and chime in. I did my undergraduate degree in human kinetics and movement sciences. I'll have a read and get back to you


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Click to expand...

Thank you. Much appreciated.

The second study's results suggest that collagen and fibroblast activity was dramatically increased with the use of NPP (<0.05) which means their findings are 95% probable. Fibroblasts are present when there is growth of tissue; however, this is not specific to tendon. Collagen matrix is present in all connective tissue. We all no based in broscience, you take NPP you will grow lol. The prevailing theory of the efficacy of nandrolone for joint repair is due to water retention and fibroblastic activity that contributes to the feeling of joint repair. In order for tissue growth from androgens, the tissues that respond to it must have androgen receptors to bind to the chemical like muscle tissue, this is why your heart, even though it's a muscle, doesn't grow like your pecs do on gear. There are no androgen receptors in the heart. I would have to find the actual article to read the science babble to see what there literature review discussed. Hope this helps a bit


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Rayjay said:

If I remember correctly, nandrolone and EQ increase collagen synthesis and are supposed to help tendon strength. I think testosterone was shown to inhibit tendon collagen synthesis to some degree. This study doesn't say which AAS was injected but shows a decrease in repair of tendons in rats injected with AAS and exercising...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16636352/?i=6&from=/23620489/related

Also, winstrol showed in a increase in collagen synthesis but made connective tissue less flexible and more prone to injury IIRC...


I'm trying to find the other info on % of collagen synthesis increase or decrease but haven't found it yet.

Click to expand...

Yea i see that it INCREASES the the potential for tendon injuries. Probably due to overworking?
"Anabolic-androgenic steroid treatment can impair tissue remodeling in the tendons of animals undergoing physical exercise by down-regulating matrix metallopeptidase activity, thus increasing the potential for tendon injury"

And how the hell do they add 50-70% to the rats body weight to do these test? LOL Like a weighted pack strapped to them? Or did i mis read that?

TonyMack said:

I started by answering the question in general terms, based on the research I have done and in my own personal experience, but obviously it's a very complex issue. Perhaps to answer your specific question and give you cycle advice, you should post up your details: age, cycle history, weight, trt status etc.

I think a lot of guys that started cycling/TRT later in life, after suffering from low T have experienced positive effects on connective tissue in general. So there's that.

You may also have someone with experience help you on your form while lifting. I think there's a lot for you to consider, and may not be as simple as "are steroids good for tendons".

Click to expand...

Im 37 years young,6', 205lbs. This will be my first real cycle. I ran a Helladrol cycle 3 months ago and got great results. I use to work out a lot in my teens and early 20's then i figured out what drugs, alcohol and women was. Now i have been back at it consistently for almost two years. Not on TRT nor do i ever want to be. I just want to get big and lean. Im roughly 15% bf as i stand. Seems like curling motion always get me on my form. I don't try to overweight what I'm lifting but i may do to many reps.

Metalhead said:

Deca or NPP will do it, Npp kicks in faster than Deca but is also out of your system faster so your joint pain will be back sooner. With Deca my joints are usually good for 2 months post cycle. EQ didn't so squat for my sore joints.

Click to expand...

Its gonna be my first cycle so i don't want to run Deca just yet. I searched NPP and didn't come up with anything. Is their a short ester test like test P or something totally different?

TR71 said:

The second study's results suggest that collagen and fibroblast activity was dramatically increased with the use of NPP (<0.05) which means their findings are 95% probable. Fibroblasts are present when there is growth of tissue; however, this is not specific to tendon. Collagen matrix is present in all connective tissue. We all no based in broscience, you take NPP you will grow lol. The prevailing theory of the efficacy of nandrolone for joint repair is due to water retention and fibroblastic activity that contributes to the feeling of joint repair. In order for tissue growth from androgens, the tissues that respond to it must have androgen receptors to bind to the chemical like muscle tissue, this is why your heart, even though it's a muscle, doesn't grow like your pecs do on gear. There are no androgen receptors in the heart. I would have to find the actual article to read the science babble to see what there literature review discussed. Hope this helps a bit


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Click to expand...

Good info. Thank you for sharing. Always nice to have some one chime in that had a background in medicine ;-).

Thanks broz

Ive seen a lot of studies showing benefits of certain drugs in collagen syntheses and have had limited results myself with stuff like deca.

I think when one looks at injury repaire, especially for collagen based tissue one should go back to basics and understand the healing process.

For starters, tendons/ligiments have a very slow natural turnover rate of approx 300-500 days. This means that every year to year and a half the tissue is replaced. Different tissue has different rates of turnover.

Next, the very well documented healing cascade (google it) outlines the various phases of injury healing, on of significant importance is inflammation. We have always been told its bad and to reduce it but in doing so what do we do? We use ice, rest, nsaids etc, all of which reduce circulation and whats does that do? It reduces the bodies rate of repaire by limiting the flow of cells and nutrients to the damaged tissue and the bodies rate of getting ride of damaged tissue.

R>I>C>E is for comfort only and should not be used by athlete who want to continue being athletic, they are setting themselves up for long term irreversible damage!

You want to promote blood flow with warm compresses, you want to move the injured limb to promote lymph flow and circulation!

Lastly, what comprises collagen and how is it made? All the best drugs in the world to speed collagen repair cant happen if the underlying nutrients for repaire dont exist or are in limited supply. Taking drugs to speed healing without them is like staffing a kitchen with the best chefs in the world but giving them no food to prepare.

Spend some time googling collagen synthesis and you will see asorbic acid (vit C) plays a critical role, the FDA values for vit C are pitiful at best and even so most athletes often avoid the surgery fruits that contain it so dont get nearly enough. One of the best things I have done for joint health (not to mention heart health) is consume large amounts of asorbic acid daily in divided doses. 1-2 grams at a time 3-5 times a day. Add in a couple grams of proline and lysine for good measure. This above will also keep arteries strong and supple and help to reduce cholesterol levels.

oversupplimented said:

Im 37 years young,6', 205lbs. This will be my first real cycle. I ran a Helladrol cycle 3 months ago and got great results. I use to work out a lot in my teens and early 20's then i figured out what drugs, alcohol and women was. Now i have been back at it consistently for almost two years. Not on TRT nor do i ever want to be. I just want to get big and lean. Im roughly 15% bf as i stand. Seems like curling motion always get me on my form. I don't try to overweight what I'm lifting but i may do to many reps.




Its gonna be my first cycle so i don't want to run Deca just yet. I searched NPP and didn't come up with anything. Is their a short ester test like test P or something totally different?




Good info. Thank you for sharing. Always nice to have some one chime in that had a background in medicine ;-).

Thanks broz

Click to expand...

You may want to get some blood-work done before you start your cycle, so you know where baseline is.

http://anabolicsteroidforums.com/showthread.php/1073-Cheap-BLOODWORK-How-to-get-it-without-Insurance

In your 30's recovery back to natural production is harder, consider taking HCG to keep you testes producing while on cycle.

Have all your ancillaries on hand prior to starting: AI (get something quality not untested garbage), have Nolva, cause the last thing we need here is another gyno freak-out thread. Have your PCT supplies before you start.

Good luck on your upcoming cycle. Keep us posted, lots of good guys here to help out.

Yea its tough for me because I'm in NY and the laws.. I need to figure out how to get my bloods done with out going to my normal Dr. I have done tons of research and NY is a bitch about it. I have everything need to cycle. I wouldn't even think about it if i didn't. That Gyno freak out thread was awesome.

there is NO question about the FACT that nandrolone and for me especially NPP greatly helps with overuse problems with joints . You know I like the clinical studies and any knowledge as long as it is accurate is good . But studies are frequently skewed and of limited value for our purposes . few , very few are conducted on bbers or even athletes or humans for that matter in the real world environment . Often the results are contradictory and people make them say what they want . Believe it or not in the 50 yrs we have been bbing as a collective group of athletes we have learned a few things along the way . You may call it bro science but a lot of the things we do are learned because of thousands upon thousands of folks using tried and true methods that have worked over time . if you have been doing heavy intense training for years you will have some nicks as I call them , some arthritis , joint issues . You will have to adjust what exercises you do avoiding one's that cause pain and inflammation . Some adjustments to form may help and even to back off on weight used and higher reps may be necessary . Some guys are getting amazing results with peptides and HGH . Of course if there is a real issue getting an accurate diagnosis may be the first step and if PT can't help you may even have to bite the bullet and get surgical repair if required . For me in my circumstances I rely greatly on npp and it just plain works !

Know one has discussed vars ability to increase collagen synth. Let me try to dig up some articles I had bookmarked.

I also would like to add the peptides can also help in strengthening tendons and helping aid in recovery of damaged tissue. These peptides can include GHRH's and GHRP's as well as other known peptides like hgh frag and TB 500.

CoolHandFlex said:

I also would like to add the peptides can also help in strengthening tendons and helping aid in recovery of damaged tissue. These peptides can include GHRH's and GHRP's as well as other known peptides like hgh frag and TB 500.

Click to expand...

BPC-157 is the best thing in the world for injuries, tears, fractures, tendon issue and tendonitis. There is plenty of research to suggest it's benefits.

Pin 200mcg ED locally in the pain area until pain stops than continue for 1-2 more weeks. Bluesky has it in 5mg vials for $39 and it's buy one get one free. You can also add in TB500 and pin sub Q twice a week at 2.5mg each dose, BUT the vial is 5mg and it is twice the price and one vial lasts you one week. No buy one get one free on TB500 unfortunately. *They do have large sales constantly however.

*I'm currently using BPC-157 to get rid of some pretty bad bicep tendonitis and it's been 4-5 days and I'm already experience relief. I also use Voltaren Emugel 3x's ED.

Thanks for the shout out powerlifter. BPC-157 is awesome. PubMed has so many good studies on it if you want more info too
muscle crush injury, tendon injury, ligament injury, ulcerative colitis, etc etc... stuff seems to heal everything

l69lou said:

there is NO question about the FACT that nandrolone and for me especially NPP greatly helps with overuse problems with joints . You know I like the clinical studies and any knowledge as long as it is accurate is good . But studies are frequently skewed and of limited value for our purposes . few , very few are conducted on bbers or even athletes or humans for that matter in the real world environment . Often the results are contradictory and people make them say what they want . Believe it or not in the 50 yrs we have been bbing as a collective group of athletes we have learned a few things along the way . You may call it bro science but a lot of the things we do are learned because of thousands upon thousands of folks using tried and true methods that have worked over time . if you have been doing heavy intense training for years you will have some nicks as I call them , some arthritis , joint issues . You will have to adjust what exercises you do avoiding one's that cause pain and inflammation . Some adjustments to form may help and even to back off on weight used and higher reps may be necessary . Some guys are getting amazing results with peptides and HGH . Of course if there is a real issue getting an accurate diagnosis may be the first step and if PT can't help you may even have to bite the bullet and get surgical repair if required . For me in my circumstances I rely greatly on npp and it just plain works !

Click to expand...

Well said, I think some people call "bro science" way too quickly when in actuality these are tried and trued methods of gear use with years of backing. You only figure it out when you have been using for 20 plus years like some of the vets on this board.