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GSRacer
11-14-2012, 07:31 AM
One of the things that scares me, be it rational or not, is the potential for fertility problems such as oligospermia, with long term TRT. I know many men wait until they are done having children to begin TRT for this reason. In your opinion, is this concern founded on facts? What has your personal experience been? What drugs do you use to help maintain normal testicular function? Thanks for your input, gents.

gabe walker
11-14-2012, 11:52 AM
I'm done having children... My wife brings it up @ times, but I steer the subject away :) I have included hcg on and off with different trt regimens.. currently using androgel and dropped the hcg with it, although I may add it back in, mostly for testicular size than maintaining normal test production...

The use of ancillaries is where my Doc falls short, he's straight test only, for those I have to go it alone... As for my current regimen, I dropped the test cyp inj. for androgel to mimic more natural test levels, and now I keep thinking about a restart to see if I can achieve mid/uppermid range test levels naturally..

For that a long term PCT would probably work. It's seems to have for others that have tried it, and with some kind of test support, maybe low dose AI, SERM like clomid @ 12.5mg/daily I could achieve acceptable results.. I know I wouldn't be happy with a low test level, and I have several future AAS cycles planned out so I would really have to want another child if I was to do it.. hMG may be a possible addition to the equation to elevate both FSH and LH levels...

Several guys on Dr. Johns board and other boards have done a successful restart following TRT as well..

There are definitely a lot of Dr's who are open to TRT now, but doing a HPTA restarts, the use of ancillaries even for routine TRT management, or prescribing meds for off label use still turns some of them off..

And, since I'm in the healthcare field, have fully and totally embraced a chemically enhanced/supported/modified lifestyle in order to achieve a higher quality of life while maximizing longevity and wellness. I don't see where I would not be on some kind of TRT anyway, so even if I dropped the testosterone I would be doing everything I could to maximize my "natural" test levels..

in addition to aromasin/clomid:
maybe triptorellin @ beginning of restart and if I included it I would consider it again 3 mo. later
reintroduction of hcg prior to AI/clomid PCT is possible if I hadn't prior to recovery
hMG possibly on it's own and no hcg for both LH and FSH

ANd even while on TRT or test cruise I've come across guys who have had children so go figure.. It only takes one little guy to reach the egg... I't's kind of like a vasectomy, you can usually reverse it if need be.. Or screw it and bank your sperm now for future use...

OneDeep0811
11-14-2012, 12:27 PM
One of the things that scares me, be it rational or not, is the potential for fertility problems such as oligospermia, with long term TRT. I know many men wait until they are done having children to begin TRT for this reason. In your opinion, is this concern founded on facts? What has your personal experience been? What drugs do you use to help maintain normal testicular function? Thanks for your input, gents.

At the clinic I go to my doc told me a few months back he has had two patients get their wifes pregnant since starting HRT that couldnt before. I know I couldnt get my wife pregnant until the start of a test cycle, but I had low T anyways.

bulldogz
11-14-2012, 02:20 PM
I've been on TRT for about a year now and I am not worried...

It is possible with HCG therapy ;)

ESTEBEVERDE
11-14-2012, 08:48 PM
hCG and hMG on alternating days While On "TRT".... That's your best best. hCG should be ran at no higher than 500iu every other day and hMG at 75iu every other day.

hMG is the Dali Lama of HPTA maintenance and PCT... It also cost a princely sum!

For an economical and solid effect run the very very affordable hCG all through your "cycle/TRT" with an occasional week or so of additional hMG. Again only use the hCG every other day at no more than 500iu and no less than 250iu.

If you do cease your TRT then you will use a higher dose of both while waiting for the exogenous test to clear and then you will begin to CONTINUE recovering your HPTA with Clomid/Nolva etc. etc. etc.

nby
11-15-2012, 12:14 AM
There is never any certainty that you can keep your fertility when going on TRT. Of course there's no guarantee that you'll be fertile without TRT but going on TRT will definetly increase the risk. I've done a lot of reading about this because I wanted to go on TRT myself being on low T and seeing a decline in T levels after every cycle but I know for 110% that I want to have children one day and that day is not any time soon. Yes hMG and hCG can aid in this but I've read some logs/threads where people's spermcount increased to a point where you could get someone pregnant but the strength of the swimmers was just not enough to actually make a baby. Docs would of course pin this on the TRT / long term shutdown but again no real science to back this up.

I guess if you really want to be safe you could get some sperm analyzed and frozen before ever going on TRT.

GSRacer
11-15-2012, 05:01 AM
Thanks for the input, guys. It's as I suspected. I'm just curious and it looks like it is as suspected - wait to cruise until after kids. I'm getting married in Feb., and definitely want a kid or two. PCT it is!

nby
11-15-2012, 05:12 AM
Wise choice brother!

ESTEBEVERDE
11-15-2012, 07:09 AM
Thanks for the input, guys. It's as I suspected. I'm just curious and it looks like it is as suspected - wait to cruise until after kids. I'm getting married in Feb., and definitely want a kid or two. PCT it is!

There is also another distinct possibility. Recover your HPTA now... this may take 6-36+++ weeks if it is possible. (There has been great success with 6-8 week recovery cycles even in some tough cases.) And then bank as much sperm as humanly possible. In fact, I would do this even with the use of cabergoline and clomid and nolva. You will need to have your sperm quality checked but that is relatively easy. For a man it is easy enough to bank billions upon billions of viable sperm in a very short time. Then you are free to go back on a "REASONABLE" TRT cruise! :D

But yeah... I can't wait until we have the technology to stimulate whatever levels of hormones we want endogenously without major problems... That day will come... :winkfinger:

Darkshadowlander
11-15-2012, 09:09 AM
I was trying to knock up my ex gf for 3 years with no luck.....thought the issue was with her do
to her medical conditions but shortly after we split she got knocked up. Been trying with my wife for over 2 years now. Going to the the sperm checked after my cycle and if im shooting i might consider cruising

gmantheman
03-12-2013, 06:31 PM
I have been on and off TRT for about 2.5 yrs. During one cycle I had my sperm levels checked and I had zero sperm. Stopped trt for 4 weeks was retested and my levels were just below normal. I was tested again 2 weeks later and my sperm levels were slightly above. I didn't take any ancillary either. My blood levels were tested and of course my test levels dropped but they were still in the normal range (573). My E2 was 32.

Rayjay
03-13-2013, 12:10 AM
Well that's good news. I want kids pretty badly but I am so tired of being low T that I'm starting TRT. My hopes and prayers are that we can keep them boys running with HCG and jump off to a clomid PCT when we are giving it a try. But I am a bit scared it will make me infertile... Crossed fingers I guess

Build.better.people
06-22-2013, 09:40 PM
It would take a substantial amount of time on TRT to cause the structural changes for irreversible infertility. Some guys (10%) the low doses of test does not bother their counts. Others it tanks. Clomiphene and some aromasin on TRT and there is a good chance she can get pregnant.

All of this was regurgitated to me by an andrologist recently as we had a long discussion about trying it this route.

RoidsR4m3
06-23-2013, 10:34 AM
It would take a substantial amount of time on TRT to cause the structural changes for irreversible infertility. Some guys (10%) the low doses of test does not bother their counts. Others it tanks. Clomiphene and some aromasin on TRT and there is a good chance she can get pregnant.

All of this was regurgitated to me by an andrologist recently as we had a long discussion about trying it this route.

Thanks for sharing this and bringing this thread back up. My Doc kind of said the same thing. HCG and Clomid seems to your best bet to get the boys swimming faster.

malfeasance
07-05-2013, 10:40 AM
I am waiting until all done having kids . . .

Makeitmethylated317
07-05-2013, 11:29 AM
Thanks for sharing this and bringing this thread back up. My Doc kind of said the same thing. HCG and Clomid seems to your best bet to get the boys swimming faster.

Great info guys what kind of doses a week would u use?



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Darkshadowlander
07-05-2013, 01:10 PM
Not to discourage anyone but ive tried hcg hmg and clomid and had no luck. Giving up the treatment for the summer might try again down the road

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McDouche
07-05-2013, 03:35 PM
Not to discourage anyone but ive tried hcg hmg and clomid and had no luck. Giving up the treatment for the summer might try again down the road

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Do you know for sure if you were fertile before hand?

Darkshadowlander
07-05-2013, 04:22 PM
Had semen analylis done 3 times before any treatment >1mil 2nd test was during treatment put me at 9mil. 3rd I was up to 19mil. Still no luck with a pregnancy and lost my patience and began a cycle. The treatment does help some people. But takes 60-90 days for healthy sperm to develope. So its not over night.

HFO3
07-05-2013, 10:39 PM
In a nutshell Heres a few fun facts, my youngest son of 3 kiddos was conceived 2012 on a blast, while on hrt since 2010. I have a long history of on and off use of AAS. I never once used pct my entire life. I always use low dose cycles, maybe that was a factor, who knows...

Darkshadowlander
07-05-2013, 10:50 PM
Very lucky bro. ^^^^

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