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View Full Version : Test results in and they look ugly



rolla20z
06-07-2014, 05:21 PM
Ill repost once edited

devildawg99.
06-07-2014, 05:26 PM
AI!!!!!!
And take your personal info off of it bro.

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 05:27 PM
Cycle 5 weeks left
test prop ten ace mast prop 50/50/50 ed
Winny 40mg ed
Aromasin 25mg ed
HCG 500 iu twice a week
prami 25mg ed
fasted 16hrs before test
4 hrs before took 12.5mg aromasin and 25mg of prami
How can I fix these numbers please help me.
4 hrs before

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 05:38 PM
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb110/rolla20z/1402180557_mccully_terry_81648_results-page-002_zps5fb574da.jpg (http://s211.photobucket.com/user/rolla20z/media/1402180557_mccully_terry_81648_results-page-002_zps5fb574da.jpg.html)

psychowhite
06-07-2014, 05:49 PM
Let me see those bitch tits!!! Jk, I've heard of some labs having messed up estrogen numbers. Can someone confirm what I'm thinking of? Or maybe it was tren that messed with e levels on labs.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

devildawg99.
06-07-2014, 05:50 PM
Shot is pretty high bud
I would drop oral or atleast start livercure
Maybe both

- - - Updated - - -


Shot is pretty high bud
I would drop oral or atleast start livercure
Maybe both

"SGPT"

devildawg99.
06-07-2014, 05:52 PM
Tren can give a false reading sometimes.
Is your AI possibly bunk

devildawg99.
06-07-2014, 05:53 PM
How many cycles have you successfully done?

need2lift
06-07-2014, 05:54 PM
I would drop all orals ASAP
I don't think I have ever seen ALT that high
You drinking heavily on cycle?

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 05:55 PM
The aromasin is from anabolic america. Been on for a year blast and cruise together on and off 7 years

- - - Updated - - -

Im in contest prep ao the only im drinking is water. So drop the winny

devildawg99.
06-07-2014, 05:56 PM
Well your liver is fawked bro

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 05:59 PM
Damn i never do orals either for this reason.

psychowhite
06-07-2014, 05:59 PM
I bet anabolic America sent you some winny or dbol instead of aramosin, that could really fuck u up thinking it was aramosin. I wouldn't doubt it by anabolic America

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 06:02 PM
I know this isnt source section but where can i get legit aromasin and drop winny to start repairing liver if there is any freaken hope

devildawg99.
06-07-2014, 06:02 PM
If you can't get ahold of some livcure go Walmart and atleast get some milk thistle till you can get somewhere to get something.
All lay off the booze. Jking

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 06:03 PM
Been taking milk thistle 1000 mg ed

DaMaster
06-07-2014, 06:05 PM
That looks like LabCorp results. If so the TrenA gave a false positive on the E2 levels. PrivateMDlabs uses LabCorp and their testing protocol does that when Tren is used.
Apparently LabsMD (http://labsmd.com/index.php) uses Quest Diagnostics and their protocol gives correct E2 levels even with Tren.

JRotten
06-07-2014, 06:07 PM
ECLIA testing can be/is affected by tren and can/will cause elevated E readings. The liver is what's bad though man. I've never seen a reading even 1/20th of that. Get on some livercare, drop the orals, and drink an ass load of water at the very least I'd say.

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 06:07 PM
Somewhat of a relief but no false positive on ast and alt i assume

devildawg99.
06-07-2014, 06:09 PM
Not likely

- - - Updated - - -

Unless they got your labs crossed with an alcoholic with hepatitis

JRotten
06-07-2014, 06:11 PM
Any jaundice? Yellowing of eyes etc?

DaMaster
06-07-2014, 06:13 PM
That liver reading might need a doctors visit bro. I can't imagine a cycle of orals throwing you THAT high.

kombatarts99
06-07-2014, 06:13 PM
40 whinny is not that crazy and only 5 weeks? If that's right strange on the liver. Having had liver disease in the past from orals, I can tell you no alcohol ever on orals. Always take milk thistle, NAC,quercetin,and colostrum while on orals. You are obv sensitive like me so limit to 3 weeks on 3 off with higher daily dose

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 06:13 PM
No jaundice whatsoever. This is crazy i never run orals last time i ran an oral was 4 yrs ago for 6 weeks. Tren i ran in sep and now. I drink 1-2 gallons of water a day and i never really drank alcohol

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 06:16 PM
40 mg ed is it anabolic america brand

JRotten
06-07-2014, 06:18 PM
It's possible you could have, had, or are recovering from an illness. I can't donate blood because according to blood tests I had hep B at some point in my life, but was never sick that I know of.


if it was me I'd see a doctor just to be safe.

kombatarts99
06-07-2014, 06:21 PM
40 mg ed is it anabolic america brand

Thats who I used. Labs came back good for me. I had a thread posted in their sub with my protocol, pics, labs etc.

imho it's not AA. Could be, but I have 5 cycles with them and I have tested every one of them. I believe you to be super sensitive like me, a generic disposition. Get those sups!!! You'll be fine. 400mg each one 3 times a day

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 06:22 PM
I guess i will have to tell him about aas

kombatarts99
06-07-2014, 06:23 PM
I guess i will have to tell him about aas

The doc? No reason not to tell him

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 06:24 PM
Kombat running to walmart now start taking in am

JRotten
06-07-2014, 06:26 PM
I guess i will have to tell him about aas
Why? It's short esters at reasonable doses. Give it a few days if you feel fine. They won't check your t or E anyway. Go in and ask for a full physical. That will include a CBC. I'd be willing to put my hat on some form of hep which you can get lots of ways, or a false reading unless you drink a LOT.

- - - Updated - - -


The doc? No reason not to tell him
Unless you do it on your insurance

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 06:27 PM
Kombat whats your opinion on docs or just run the supps.

kombatarts99
06-07-2014, 06:30 PM
Kombat running to walmart now start taking in am

I use: now brand saw palmetto, milk thistle, NAC , quercetin, marshmallow

after two surgeries and 3 years of post treatment I've learned the hard way. But now I can take them safely and I know my body, so sounds like you are like me. Good thing about the liver, it can come back from extreme damage. So just take the herbals, water, no alcohol and in 4 weeks you'll be good!!

ClintEastwood
06-07-2014, 06:36 PM
Do you use any other pill-form medication? Hope you're not boozing while on cycle, that's a big no no.


Something is really driving those liver values through the roof. I can't see how oral juice would be causing this by itself, not even high dose winny.

LowTman
06-07-2014, 06:36 PM
Where is the rest of the lab results? The other liver functions? Albumin, total protein, bilirubin, etc... You should have these considering your ALT is so high, as it will give you a better idea as to what is going on and how valid this reading is. I would get it rechecked this week and dont use the lab there on Dublin road, try the one on Polaris or Worthington. Both are right off the freeway. If it comes back or confirms the initial reading, a Dr. Visit is in order.

My other question would be when was your last lab and what did your liver functions look like? I just did a write up on ALT recently and it isn't a good indicator of liver damage and is found in blood plasma in several other organs in your body. It is also an indicator of heart disease and diabetes. Thus, my question about the other lab readings to pinpoint and better interpret this lab marker. The problem with the ALT, on its' own, is that it is NOT uncommon for high reading under strict diet or "intense" workouts. Matter of fact, it is common to see such elevations of ONLY THE ALT under these conditions. Since you said that you were preparing for a competition, this in fact may be normal for you now.

Start with a retake that includes the entire liver functions. This wil determine your next steps.

Lowtman

ClintEastwood
06-07-2014, 06:40 PM
Hard boozing can drive up values faster than any form of AAS.

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 06:45 PM
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb110/rolla20z/REVISERESULT_zps1b33d62e.jpg (http://s211.photobucket.com/user/rolla20z/media/REVISERESULT_zps1b33d62e.jpg.html)

whontime
06-07-2014, 06:46 PM
As stated above, where are the rest of the liver function tests? Also, labcorp e2 reading is worthless when you are on tren. It will always kick it up. All that said, the liver readings are the issue. Post up the rest of the liver enzymes.

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 06:47 PM
This was the rest of the result from the blood work also have lipid on there. Sorry for the delay had to erase personal info and no i dont booze period

Dieseljimmy
06-07-2014, 06:56 PM
Dude off all orals... cleanse protocol immediately and retest I'm two weeks. If not down significantly you gots to see the doc man.
those are not the highest i have ever seen but they are up there.
And where did you get your ais?

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 07:04 PM
Got all aas from anabolic america

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 07:17 PM
I began all supplements kombat told me to get. Im also getting a ggt test mon morning see how that goes

LowTman
06-07-2014, 07:45 PM
To clarify some a general belief out "there", alcohol does not easily elevate your liver enzymes. Someone has to drink heavy for an extended period of time and then one would only focus on the alcohol marker for the liver, which is the GGT. That said, recent articles in several medical journals, to include JAMA, have theorized that GGT is not as accurated liver enzyme of alcohol use as it once was thought. CDT is now preferred along with an HAA.

To cut to the chase, when interpreting your labs, which i do for a living, only a lay person would think it is due to alcohol use. That would be incorrect and not based on medical science.

As I stated previously, the fact that you said you were training for a competition would mean your elevations are most likely due to strenuous workouts, hydration and diet. Take a week off from intense workouts, no workouts 3 days prior to the blood draw and redo the labs from another location.

Then post and we can go from there. I would not be concerned "yet".

Lowtman

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 07:50 PM
Yes contest prep and off season for the past yr 2 hrs a day ed havent had a break. Like i said i drink a beer once every 2 yrs and i havent had any alcohol since being on blast and cruise. Hydration 1-2 gallons a day diet at 2500 cals right now. Ill take your advice

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 07:52 PM
Lowtman i did take aromasin and prami 4 hrs before test would that trigger anything

Skip Foursome
06-07-2014, 08:28 PM
Fuck all the homeopathic bullshit. You need to see a doctor ASAP. All the milk thistle in the world is not going to help you. Get tested for hepatitis now!

LowTman
06-07-2014, 09:19 PM
Not likely. One study I recall, and I can research it, did show an elevation in blood plasma up to about 10%. The problem is that this was in "women" who were being treated for breast cancer. In addition, it caused an increased elevation across the board on all LFTS.

You have an isolated elevated ALT, no other liver functions were elevated or liver markers to back the validity of the one and only marker you have elevated. All alcohol markers or those that would be elevated if you were a drinker, and it is clear that you are not, we're not elevated.

This would leave me asking you about your diet and physical activity. Reduced caloric intake with daily strenuous workouts, would be the first line of diagnostic in determining your sole liver function elevation, with no elevated glucose, bili, albumin or any 2nd tier marker elevated. That and a lab error.

Slightly increase your caloric intake for 3-4 days, clean of course, take 3 days off from working out and take your lab between 8am-10am.

I think you will be happy with the results. Either way, they will be more accurate and will provide you with what you need in order to decide what's next. And don't draw blood or HOS at the same location this time. I have used Worthington and north of St Ann's by McDonalds many times.

Keep me posted. And there is no need to go to a Dr. yet, as he would have you do what I just told you. I guarantee that.

Lowtman







Lowtman i did take aromasin and prami 4 hrs before test would that trigger anything

rolla20z
06-07-2014, 09:28 PM
My ast is high as well at 867 everything else on the liver is good. Ill take your advice lowtman.

s2h
06-08-2014, 12:18 AM
OP...have you ever had labs before?..if so what were your liver values?...a baseline would be good....have a hard time seeing 40mg of winn giving you those values unless there is more to the equation...some people have normally high values even on zero oral AAS or anything for that matter...smaller % but it happens..

DR.BroScience
06-08-2014, 12:38 AM
Even in my heaviest drinking days my ALT only ever went up to about 74... I highly doubt alcohol has anything to do with his results. Those readings are actually pretty scary to me. I'd honestly recommend visiting the doctor but thats just my opinion.

s2h
06-08-2014, 12:45 AM
i have seen a guys over double his or more before....you can have a genetic disposition that makes your AST/ALT run high...and those two numbers really aren't the greatest factors in liver markers...would like to see more labs or more of the entire panel..

DR.BroScience
06-08-2014, 12:46 AM
i have seen a guys over double his or more before....you can have a genetic disposition that makes your AST/ALT run high...and those two numbers really aren't the greatest factors in liver markers...would like to see more labs or more of the entire panel..

very true, was just saying if it was me, I'd go to the doc.

s2h
06-08-2014, 12:51 AM
it would be worth looking into for sure...but if he isn't jaundice or showing any other obvious sign of liver issues..i would make a regular appt while dropping orals and see how the numbers fair...go from there..

ClintEastwood
06-08-2014, 02:17 AM
OP...have you ever had labs before?..if so what were your liver values?...a baseline would be good....have a hard time seeing 40mg of winn giving you those values unless there is more to the equation...some people have normally high values even on zero oral AAS or anything for that matter...smaller % but it happens..

Perfecto^

jerseydevil
06-08-2014, 04:28 AM
it would be worth looking into for sure...but if he isn't jaundice or showing any other obvious sign of liver issues..i would make a regular appt while dropping orals and see how the numbers fair...go from there..I agree with s2h. Those numbers are damn high, so I would get a doctor involved, drop the orals, and get a retest. I highly suspect your e2 is fine, last time I had blood work done while using tren thru Private MD (Labcorp) my e2 was 613, 4 weeks after I dropped tren had the same test done and my e2 was 19.

Since your other markers are fine, I highly doubt the winny is causing those high numbers..... but unless this is a false positive, your liver is being stressed and you need to find out why.

l69lou
06-08-2014, 06:54 AM
This is one thing I hate about this board . I mean we try to help each other and any help as long as it is sound is good but we play doctor way too much around here . I doubt any of the posters are doctors even though some seem to be in that field and there is very good advice given , I"m not taking anything away there but this brother needs to be in the care of a good doctor not self treating . This is not the time for speculation in IMHO but to have this taken care of professionally . As far as telling the doctor about AAS use be careful . I recently did in a certain situation and so far it has went well but we'll see . As of now any nurse or tech who happens to look at my chart will see I use AAS right there in black and white .

Skip Foursome
06-08-2014, 06:59 AM
This is one thing I hate about this board . I mean we try to help each other and any help as long as it is sound is good but we play doctor way too much around here . I doubt any of the posters are doctors even though some seem to be in that field and there is very good advice given , I"m not taking anything away there but this brother needs to be in the care of a good doctor not self treating . This is not the time for speculation in IMHO but to have this taken care of professionally . As far as telling the doctor about AAS use be careful . I recently did in a certain situation and so far it has went well but we'll see . As of now any nurse or tech who happens to look at my chart will see I use AAS right there in black and white .
This right here gentleman.

I hate to say it but nobody here is in ANY position to tell this guy anything. These liver values are extremely alarming and guys are talking about self treatment using homeopathic methods in lieu of seeking advice of a professional.

ClintEastwood
06-08-2014, 07:08 AM
This is one thing I hate about this board . I mean we try to help each other and any help as long as it is sound is good but we play doctor way too much around here . I doubt any of the posters are doctors even though some seem to be in that field and there is very good advice given , I"m not taking anything away there but this brother needs to be in the care of a good doctor not self treating . This is not the time for speculation in IMHO but to have this taken care of professionally . As far as telling the doctor about AAS use be careful . I recently did in a certain situation and so far it has went well but we'll see . As of now any nurse or tech who happens to look at my chart will see I use AAS right there in black and white .

I totally agree with getting some real medical attention from a doctor. However, I would advise against telling any medical professional about your AAS use if you can. That creates a permanent record that could harm you down the road. Only admit to AAS use if you absolutely have to, as in life or death.

BigTime
06-08-2014, 07:30 AM
OK results aside, HOW DO YOU FEEL? do you feel bad? are you sick? do you have pain anywhere in your midsection? I think if your liver waas really fucked like that that you would have some signs you know? If you feel good, get a retest mabey?

Skip Foursome
06-08-2014, 07:39 AM
I totally agree with getting some real medical attention from a doctor. However, I would advise against telling any medical professional about your AAS use if you can. That creates a permanent record that could harm you down the road. Only admit to AAS use if you absolutely have to, as in life or death.

Agreed

I don't think telling the doctor about AAS is necessary in the beginning. See where it goes from the lab report and take it from there.

rolla20z
06-08-2014, 09:09 AM
I am going to docs in the am. As far as pain there is no pain. No jaundice. I feel good but those numbers are alarming.

Skip Foursome
06-08-2014, 09:24 AM
I am going to docs in the am. As far as pain there is no pain. No jaundice. I feel good but those numbers are alarming.

Good move.

And how you feel doesn't mean shit. You can have clogged arteries and feel fine. Never ignore analyitcal results. Let us know how it goes.

rolla20z
06-08-2014, 09:28 AM
I will thanks.

rolla20z
06-08-2014, 09:42 AM
Alright i havent lifted since sat i did take winny yesterday evening. Winny is the only oral i take minus aromasin and my eca stack ohh and my multi. So i assume winny will be out in 24 hrs. Damn i hate reading forums like i want to go to the er with this reading because it is enormous and my wife is flipping and i am too

Skip Foursome
06-08-2014, 10:01 AM
Alright i havent lifted since sat i did take winny yesterday evening. Winny is the only oral i take minus aromasin and my eca stack ohh and my multi. So i assume winny will be out in 24 hrs. Damn i hate reading forums like i want to go to the er with this reading because it is enormous and my wife is flipping and i am too

Sorry this has you and your wife worked up, it would be nerve racking for me too. One thing you can take solace in knowing is your liver is the one organ that regenerates. So if you find the issue the liver can rebuild and be fully functional again.

And that is nothing like your heart, lungs, kidneys or your brain. Once you hammer those organs it is permanent.

rolla20z
06-08-2014, 10:08 AM
I will not fess up to aas when going to er or docs. I believe at these numbers i can get into er this afternoon and find the problem and get it fixed instead of going to docs tomorrow. The only worry i have is i just had my mast/prop/tren shot an hr ago with 12.5 mg of aromasin. Also my 500iu of hcg.

rolla20z
06-08-2014, 11:17 AM
At er they said they're are glad i came thoae numbers are astronomically high. Ill keep everyone updated

SonOfZeus13
06-08-2014, 11:30 AM
Yes let us know how it goes man.

DR.BroScience
06-08-2014, 11:56 AM
Glad to hear you've chosen the doctor route. I think it's for the best. Good luck man and hopefully all will return to normal soon.

rolla20z
06-08-2014, 11:56 AM
Just had blood taken will have results in about 30-45 min

rolla20z
06-08-2014, 01:25 PM
Ast and alt same going to make appointment with gastro doc in the am.

bigbreads80
06-08-2014, 04:30 PM
Holy shit is that a real liver value!?! Sorry to flip out but i didn't even know that was possible. Hope your ok

bigbreads80
06-08-2014, 04:43 PM
You need some UDCA bro STAT!

rolla20z
06-08-2014, 06:08 PM
What is udca

RAINier
06-08-2014, 06:29 PM
He needs to see a doctor. Self-medication is not an option at this point, this is his life in the balance if those numbers are an accurate reflection of what's going on in his body right now.

DR.BroScience
06-08-2014, 06:43 PM
He needs to see a doctor. Self-medication is not an option at this point, this is his life in the balance if those numbers are an accurate reflection of what's going on in his body right now.

^^this

rolla20z
06-08-2014, 06:47 PM
I go to see the gastro tomorrow morning. This isnt an anbolic issue this has to been going on for awhile. I have seen raised asd and alt on anabolics nothing like this and i use a quarter of what some of the bros use. This goes longer down the line. I look forward to my first noc show but that might go on hold because i have a beautiful wife 3 beautiful girls and a handsome son and there is no weight show on anabolic more important than them. Health first iron second

bigbreads80
06-08-2014, 08:21 PM
What is udca

Ursodiol-probably one of the scripts they'll give you after you get whatever it is worked out. Def didn't mean to imply he doesn't need to go to a doctor. Way beyond self treatment.

rolla20z
06-09-2014, 09:58 AM
Came off all orals and compunds except test and aromasin and hcg going back to cruise. The npc stage will have to wait until my health is in check. I go to gastro in a few hrs to get a consultation. I am just going to maintain what i have earned on my cruise so when i am healthy again i can go back to prep mode but health first. Ill keep everybody updated. To all new readers get bloods before during and after. Or u will end up in my position baffled and confused

rolla20z
06-09-2014, 01:58 PM
Liver inflamed no heps all negative off all herbal vits creatine only thing i am using is trt dose and caffeine. I can go back to gym wed after ultrasound. Should i hold off on trt dose or will this affect my numbers coming down.

Skip Foursome
06-09-2014, 02:00 PM
So basically the doctor wants the liver to heal itself?

Oops-edit

I see your getting an ultrasound on Wednesday.

s2h
06-09-2014, 04:28 PM
when you got labs the second time around did they give you a Cogulation panel?

what were your albumin..bilirubin numbers?

was your blood glucose low by any chance?

just curious...keep us posted and hope everything checks out ok...

jerseydevil
06-09-2014, 04:55 PM
I'm so glad you went the doctor/er route. I agree with you this probably had been brewing for some time. Sure hope you are ok bro.

l69lou
06-09-2014, 05:30 PM
This is all very good news . You are on the road to full recovery . It starts when you confront your issue instead of denial as many do and see a doctor . Very good news about the Hep tests . I was afraid about hep c so you should be feeling very good about that . Praying for you brother . You sound like you have a wonderful family , what a treasure !

SonOfZeus13
06-09-2014, 05:32 PM
This is all very good news . You are on the road to full recovery . It starts when you confront your issue instead of denial as many do and see a doctor . Very good news about the Hep tests . I was afraid about hep c so you should be feeling very good about that . Praying for you brother . You sound like you have a wonderful family , what a treasure !

Lou is so genuine. Youre responses are always sincere... I love that shit on this forum.

Also glad to hear theres no hep op. Stay positive brotha

l69lou
06-09-2014, 05:35 PM
Liver inflamed no heps all negative off all herbal vits creatine only thing i am using is trt dose and caffeine. I can go back to gym wed after ultrasound. Should i hold off on trt dose or will this affect my numbers coming down. My personal opinion is not to take anything even hrt dose right now . The doctors work is kind of like detective work trying eliminate causes so the less things to sort through the better . Missing your dose for a week will not hurt anything right now .

rolla20z
06-09-2014, 06:08 PM
All my other numbers were in range on the liver panel. Just the ast and alt were high. Thanks for all the support brothers. This is why i love the board. Lesson learned blood before during and after. I went a year with 3 blast and cruising no bloods. I am on prop now havent had any shots in 2,days not jumping back on till after bloods taken.

TigerTailgater
06-09-2014, 06:26 PM
Holy shit bro! Playing catch up here. Glad to see you went to doctor and things are looking up.

rolla20z
06-09-2014, 09:25 PM
Now through this whole adventure so far i never like the gastro doc or family doc know anything about aas. They only knew about preworkout, milk thistle, creatine,and multi. My million dollar question is i am in detox mode only thing i'm allowed to have is caffeine. My bloods are tommorow. Havent had mast prop tren or winny in 2 days. After bloodwork do i go back on my cruise dose or will this keep my ast and alt elevated. My cruise is self administered so everything is ugl. I can go pct but i prefer not to. The reason i self administer my ins not covering it. I need to do everything safe here. I have been taking aromasin 12.5 mg every 2 to 3 days. Everything is from anabolic america. I ask u brothers the aas stuff cause cant ask doc. I am also finding out that i have a sensitive liver and when my numbers go back and i do any blast ill monitor the hell out of him.

TigerTailgater
06-10-2014, 07:34 AM
I would just tell your doc whats up. I mean, he can't say anything. Doctor\Patient confidentiality.

SonOfZeus13
06-10-2014, 07:37 AM
I would just tell your doc whats up. I mean, he can't say anything. Doctor\Patient confidentiality.

It goes on a medical record. He cant go out on the street and tell people though

l69lou
06-10-2014, 07:48 AM
This is a difficult question to answer because of the situation being so serious . Test normally is not liver toxic in any way . However you are using a UGL product . Now I am not putting down AA in ANY way it's just that it does inject some possible issues . Is there something in the products themselves that is adding to this . If it were me I would want US pharma product right now to be absolutely certain I was not adding to the situation . As has been stated this has probably been brewing for some time and I have never heard of anyone using what you have having issues like this . But it is possible to add unknowingly to the problem hence the need for absolute safety . I know this does not answer your question but I feel it needs to be said . I would get some pharma product including the AI , let test levels go to natural and use minimum AI . Again this is not to question AA in any way , I would say the same regardless of the sponsor . Try to take this one step at a time and it will become clearer as you find the reason for all this .

Seanfinelean
06-10-2014, 07:54 AM
What sucks about doing pct now is nolva can be liver toxic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Skip Foursome
06-10-2014, 08:04 AM
I would just tell your doc whats up. I mean, he can't say anything. Doctor\Patient confidentiality.

Insurance companies have rights to all of your medical records. That goes for his current insurance carrier and any future insurance carriers. Be extremely careful what you say to the doctor.

JRotten
06-10-2014, 08:37 AM
Insurance companies have rights to all of your medical records. That goes for his current insurance carrier and any future insurance carriers. Be extremely careful what you say to the doctor.
^^this

rolla20z
06-10-2014, 10:24 AM
Just had my blood taken at gastros office. No mast prop ace winny in 2 days. No supplements in 24 hrs. No aromasin in 24hrs. Ultrasound tomorrow at 10 am. As far as test injection going into cruise so i was going to frontload the prop with cruise dose. Still debating pct and my pct is not nolva it is clomid and aromasin. I would like to stay on cruise. I hope a few more brothers could chime in on this with it being ugl aa gear.

rolla20z
06-10-2014, 11:26 AM
I cant go us pharma but can someone reccomend a high quality ugl i have been researching ama and mlg. Need highest quality possible because of health reasons

rolla20z
06-10-2014, 01:17 PM
I sat down with my wife i am going into pct let all these liver values clear once everything is norm then ill cycle again under close eye. In the process i am going to see if my ins covers any trt at all. If it does ill go that route with 2 blast a year with lots of bloodwork

kombatarts99
06-10-2014, 02:10 PM
What sucks about doing pct now is nolva can be liver toxic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My mother Takes Nolva as she just had breast cancer. I have been with her to every appointment and I specifically asked about the liver, and doc said not dangerous to the liver. She will be on it for rest of her life.

Seanfinelean
06-10-2014, 02:13 PM
Anything that enters the body is toxic even water. It just depends on how the body handles it. Women may be use to the toxic affects of something like nolva and the male liver produces estrogen to protect the liver where women already have it. Also what dose was she taking? I know for a fact it is liver toxic. We just learned this in environmental health this semester actually haha.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kombatarts99
06-10-2014, 02:13 PM
Now through this whole adventure so far i never like the gastro doc or family doc know anything about aas. They only knew about preworkout, milk thistle, creatine,and multi. My million dollar question is i am in detox mode only thing i'm allowed to have is caffeine. My bloods are tommorow. Havent had mast prop tren or winny in 2 days. After bloodwork do i go back on my cruise dose or will this keep my ast and alt elevated. My cruise is self administered so everything is ugl. I can go pct but i prefer not to. The reason i self administer my ins not covering it. I need to do everything safe here. I have been taking aromasin 12.5 mg every 2 to 3 days. Everything is from anabolic america. I ask u brothers the aas stuff cause cant ask doc. I am also finding out that i have a sensitive liver and when my numbers go back and i do any blast ill monitor the hell out of him.

My Nolva is from AA and I just had my liver test on Friday, was all under normal.

Seanfinelean
06-10-2014, 03:27 PM
must not be so bad then. that is good.

kombatarts99
06-10-2014, 04:23 PM
must not be so bad then. that is good.

I did just read though that long term administration CAN cause Liver disease. Funny how my moms cancer doc didnt say any of that, she prob figured the cancer will kill her before the tox from Nolva lol

rolla20z
06-10-2014, 08:47 PM
Been off everything for 3 days all short ester shit feel horrible plus gastro pulled 15 tubes of blood today. Get to go back to gym tommorrow. First ultrasound to check for any damage. Also good news called insurance company they cover test cyp and aromasin. So ill do pct wait for liver values to go normal take another test and get prescribed to cruise and blast ugl. Also ill have to get my own hcg not covered so if someone could shoot me a pm on a good source for hcg. Thank god my coach who trains me for shows i am keeping for my pct to help me get through.

rolla20z
06-11-2014, 01:24 PM
Bloodwork at gastro result alt went from 2450 to 1700, Ast went from 861 to 500 thay was 3 days clean off gear and everything except caffeine more bloodwork mon. I have to go into pct tomorrow i got liquid aromasin at 25/25/12.5/12.5 and liquid clomid 50/50/50/50 how will this pose on my bloodwork. I need to go into pct

Skip Foursome
06-11-2014, 01:40 PM
Bloodwork at gastro result alt went from 2450 to 1700, Ast went from 861 to 500 thay was 3 days clean off gear and everything except caffeine more bloodwork mon. I have to go into pct tomorrow i got liquid aromasin at 25/25/12.5/12.5 and liquid clomid 50/50/50/50 how will this pose on my bloodwork. I need to go into pct

I cannot go through all 11 pages so I apologize if I got this wrong but you have been off winny now for a few days and your liver values have improved? If that is the case then great news!

Not that my situation is anything like yours but I took a prohormone a couple of years ago and it jacked my liver enzymes into the high 100s. Took a couple of months to get back to normal.

Now I take Anavar, Tbol and tren with no issues at all. Go figure......

rolla20z
06-11-2014, 08:07 PM
I cannot go through all 11 pages so I apologize if I got this wrong but you have been off winny now for a few days and your liver values have improved? If that is the case then great news!

Not that my situation is anything like yours but I took a prohormone a couple of years ago and it jacked my liver enzymes into the high 100s. Took a couple of months to get back to normal.

Now I take Anavar, Tbol and tren with no issues at all. Go figure......

Still extremely high but dropped a good amount just cleaning my system. Things will look clear once i get uktrasound tomorrow

SonOfZeus13
06-11-2014, 08:16 PM
Still extremely high but dropped a good amount just cleaning my system. Things will look clear once i get uktrasound tomorrow

Did they give you something for it or is it from dropping orals??

rolla20z
06-11-2014, 08:51 PM
I quit taking all gear no prop winny mast tren. I might get flamed for this but people will disagree with me but i believe the mix of tren and winny did me in. I abused tren in 1 yr time. Never got bloods to catch it. I cruised for short times and blasted more. I abused and learned a valuable lesson. Now i am not out of the clear yet. I will feel better once i get ultrasound back. They didnt put me on anything complete detox. Only thing im using is creatine caffeine and daspratic acid. Now i am pushing my luck but im holding off on pct till mon which makes it 8days with short esters. Which i know some say 3 to 5 but i get more blood drawn on mon. After blood draw i hit pct and stay off gear till these numbers are in check but 2-3 days of being off and alt went down 700 iu and ast went down 300 i am going to win this fight and i will begin to preach to all the new guys blood work blood work. U cant feel what is going on inside for the most part when u are superman. No gear is worth that be responsible. I got liquid clomi and liquid stane from blue sky i believe these are not liver toxic anyone wanna chime in on this

rolla20z
06-11-2014, 10:35 PM
I had one other high reading blood ammonia was 91 this is stemming from the liver issues but have no symptons. Ill beat this. Itll take time but i am gonna kill it. My family drives me to kill this

bigbreads80
06-12-2014, 10:11 AM
Good luck brother and pulling for you. I would highly recommended CEMs UDCA. Not sure what you are allowed to take. Ursodiol is another name for it kinda . But this stuff is amazing speaking from experience. Here a few links just to read on if interested.
http://forums.steroidal.com/educational-forum/54-liver-aas-induced-hepatotoxicity-liver-protectants.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/196127-good-writeup-udca.html
just for infos same if your interested:)

LowTman
06-12-2014, 11:46 AM
Have been busy so I have not chimed in. Originally I indicated for you to come off all meds, drop the intense workout and redo blood. Protocol would have you do blood work every 20 days, depending on the change, ultrasound next which would detect any abnormality or nodules (sometimes inconclusive), then if no improvement a punch biopsy.

At least this was our practice in our office. Forgive me if I missed something on the last 11 pages, but it looks as though you are seeing a nice drop in a very short time. That would be a drop by more than 100% of the test range, normally between 45-60 on most labwork.

Going forward, you will need more frequent labs with your history. Hang in there brother as your body chemistry goes through some changes. Your headed in the right direction!

lowtman

rolla20z
06-12-2014, 12:25 PM
Ultrasound normal now have to keep plugging away at clearing my numbers. The worst part is waiting till mon for pct which is 8 days clear off short esters. Just dont want anything interferring with bloodwork mon.

rolla20z
06-15-2014, 10:56 PM
Been off all gear for 8 days ill be going in for bloodwork today no gym sun and into bloodwork. Only supplements taken caffeine d aspratic acid and creatine. After bloodwork start pct liquid clomid 50/50/50/50
Liquid aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5. First couple days blew felt like i was coming off drugs. As of today sleep is amazing strength up lost a few lbs of water and energy is amazing. Everything i did was short estered which i am pushing waiting 8 days but want to get a good read on test. Plug away at this pct for 4 weeks get my enzymes down get to doc get prescribed trt cruise on pharma and blast with ugl. When i get back ill run tudca nac and milk thistle heavy and monitor like no other. I will get to the stage this year.

rolla20z
06-17-2014, 09:08 AM
Alt 747
Ast 143
This is 8 days clean ill keep trucking

SonOfZeus13
06-17-2014, 09:12 AM
Alt 747
Ast 143
This is 8 days clean ill keep trucking
good shit man. looking A LOT better.

Skip Foursome
06-17-2014, 09:12 AM
Alt 747
Ast 143
This is 8 days clean ill keep trucking

Man that is looking good!

And you are doing it by letting the liver heal itself, no drugs or homeopathic medicine needed. Doctors know best.

rolla20z
06-17-2014, 09:36 AM
Thats right heal on its self. Like i said only thing im taking is my creatine caffeine d aspratic acid liquid clomid and liquid aromasin

Rayjay
06-17-2014, 03:19 PM
Don't know how I missed this whole thread until now but I am happy to see that you went to the doctor and glad that your numbers are coming down so much. Keep on truckin

kombatarts99
06-17-2014, 03:22 PM
Alt 747
Ast 143
This is 8 days clean ill keep trucking

Better! but still way high. When I had my bladder and liver disease my numbers were you are now. Keep at it and it will come down.

ClintEastwood
06-17-2014, 04:18 PM
Nice, keep it up. Just remember what you did last time and learn from it.

Back in my day, lifters didn't worry about blood work or AI this and that. Very few people I knew when I started used pct. But then again, most used year round so go figure. With the dawn of the internet knowledge increased tremendously. My generation learned through trail and error for the most part. Honestly, I bet most of you younger experienced guys know more about the technical side of AAS than I ever will. Like I've said before, I'm 52 years young and its taken me almost 30 years to learn what works for me. Many of you will catch on to this sport in only a few years or even months for the sharp ones, lol. All of the knowledge at the click of a mouse button thanks to the internet. Pretty cool really.


I will add this: I've also noticed that many of the serious younger lifters who have already built a solid foundation are very respectful and still question us older guys. They are very eager to learn more. I can always see their frustration oozing from them when they realize they know just as much or more than I do, and I tell them that. I'm not talking about the punks in the gym who have no clue. I'm referring to the young guys who work their asses off just like we did when we still had the eye of the tiger.

ClintEastwood
06-17-2014, 04:30 PM
And this is for the ones giving it all they have.....no matter how old or what condition you're in. CRANK IT UP!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btPJPFnesV4

rolla20z
06-19-2014, 01:50 PM
Got back from docs he said liver looks awesome gotta get the ast and alt down he said i just pissed off my liver. Have bloodwork mon if it comes down blood will go to once a month. He did tell me i can take 1200mg of nac. I am taking liquid clomi and liquid stane from blue sky i dont think this will effect the numbers. But the bad news i have a few bumps on my gall bladder if they get bigger by jan ultrasound gotta have that out aint worried too much about that its a painless surgery from a few of my friends that had it down. Doc said numbers should be normal within the next month or two. So when i blast blood pre blood halfway and blood post gotta watch the health. Been in pct for a little of a week been off gear for 12 days strength is good i am actually more sliced size is there lost water weight 6 lbs. Sex drive is crazy

LowTman
06-19-2014, 02:25 PM
That's great news man. I am glad to hear the liver checked out fine and that you just need to watch and work on lowering those numbers.

lowtman

- - - Updated - - -

That's great news man. I am glad to hear the liver checked out fine and that you just need to watch and work on lowering those numbers.

lowtman

rolla20z
06-23-2014, 12:03 PM
Blood results in for the week the drop was 1 week gap

Alt went from 747 to 201
Ast went from 149 to 42
Wooooooooo

SonOfZeus13
06-23-2014, 12:05 PM
Nice brudda

bigbreads80
06-23-2014, 12:08 PM
That's awesome . Congrats man. Glad to see it wasn't any thing that was going to stick around. I imagine that's a huge stress off your shoulders .

rolla20z
06-23-2014, 01:03 PM
Yes veey huge keep plugging away get the alt down finish off pct and then a more responsible approach to blast and cruiae with heavy monitoring. Being natty does suck i lost 8 lbs which was water and glycogen stores strengrh lost a hair not much

rolla20z
06-30-2014, 01:17 PM
All liver values normal but alt is at a 71 thats it this is a month later. I assume alt will be back to normal in the following weeks ahead

JRotten
06-30-2014, 01:24 PM
Thanks for the update

heavyiron
06-30-2014, 01:51 PM
All liver values normal but alt is at a 71 thats it this is a month later. I assume alt will be back to normal in the following weeks ahead
Great news brother!

need2lift
06-30-2014, 05:59 PM
Excellent!

bigbreads80
06-30-2014, 08:25 PM
Double post-stupid taptalk

rolla20z
07-28-2014, 03:43 AM
Double post-stupid taptalk

Blood back alt 50 ast is 44. The chart says alt is high but ill take it. Just got put on trt cause test is at 300. B 12 was at 1200 they said it is high but from what i read that is normal and iron was high at a 946. This covers it in a nutshell. I appreciate all the support. This board and all the brothers on here are awesome. I learned alot from this experience especially having children appreciate your body. If you live the lifestyle we do there is a responsible way. Keep everything monitored and learn how to adjust to your body. You only get one.

Skip Foursome
07-28-2014, 09:00 AM
Right on, glad to hear it!

And one thing I learned from your experience is that the doctor did not prescribe any drugs like TUDCA or UDCA or homeopathic remedies like milk thistle, symilarin or NAC.

Tells me the liver can heal itself and that there is not a drug or otherwise that would remedy the problem, other than give yourself time off and let the liver repair itself.

Something we all need to pay close attention to.

Best of luck to you.

Creepin' it Real
08-17-2014, 06:26 PM
Been taking milk thistle 1000 mg ed
drop that milk thistle bro. Milk thistle enhances the effects of estrogen, they are synergistic.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/138.html

sufurx
09-01-2014, 01:59 PM
Wow glad you are healing up. That's some scary shit

rolla20z
09-29-2014, 10:57 PM
Been awhile wanted a final update to everyone. Had my bloodwork back from trt of axiron i am on. My liver is completely healed ast and alt in the 30s. So 4 month to rebuild my liver naturally. Starting a blast today and no harsh compounds offseason cycle. I am coming off my axiron which i might add works. My test is at 1000 on trt. Going to blast test only cycle 8 weeks at 750 and 8 weeks at a gram. Ill be taking aromasin at 12.5mg ed from bluesky. Ill also be taking tudca and nac while on. Ill have bloodwork done 6-8 weeks into cycle.

JRotten
09-29-2014, 10:59 PM
Glad to hear. Those were some nasty numbers before.