new member/self med t.r.t help please

Hey all, new member here. Most people call me chaos. (Dont ask) I am 22 years old and have been dealing with symptoms of low t for some time now. Depression and libido have been hit the hardest. Followed by some muscle loss and fat gain and complete halt of all progress in the gym even with perfect diet and training. My test levels came back at 400 (250-11something) scale for total test and 1.1 for for free test. (4.5) I believe for max. Without boring you with all the details I have faced an insurance lapse and dealt with complete idiots for doctors. I will now be doing the t.r.t on my own. I have had a hard time with conflicting information and I was referred here. I will be doing test cyp only only while using arimidex as an a.I as of now. While this is in a huge way to treat my symptoms, I also plan on taking full advantage of the physical changes from anabolics. I do intend on blasting eventually once I have seen symptom relief and gotten a baseline for my dosage. My questions to you knowledgeable people are
- what dosage of the a.I I should be taking at a 250 mg a week dose of test cyp.
-is there a benefit to taking 2 injections a week of test c? I know the ester is longer but I was told by another test c user to do twice weekly.
-what else do I need for this process if anything?
-and lastly (for now) although I have low test for my age and I certainly have the symptoms, my levels do exist and are higher than a lot of others. I would still like to have children and this may sound stupid, but in the case of any kind of crazy shit happening in this country, or in case of me running out of money or supply at any time, I would like to be able to come off if I have to. So what would you guys recommend for time frames here and ways to properly come off and keep my natural production alive as long as possible.
Im sorry if I am ignorant to anything here. I never in the world thought I would need this but now that its happening I intend to attack it aggressively. Anything you guys think I should know would be GREATLY appreciated. I look forward to talking with some of you and thanks in advance.

I also did read the sticky in the anabolics section so everyone knows.

id google trt therapy...theres plenty of info on the web for dosing....

Google doesnt have real world experience. Some on here do... but thanks. Dosing of the test wasnt really a question.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/662394-basic-trt-overview.html

your 250/week is too high for trt. splitting doses into more frequent injections, eg 2/week will reduce the peaks and troughs. Once you start, and the longer you're on the harder it is to stop and go back. Be prepared to become infertile in 12-16 weeks. HcG can mitigate this by stimulating the testes, but if future children are important to you (and you're pretty young) you need to consider it isn't guaranteed that you can restore it back to what it was.

Have you messed with any PH's or anything? Have you tried a restart with clomid?

Im aware the 250 a week is a little high for me, but I also dont mind. I wasnt too concerned with a higher level unless I should be for some particular reason? I am a weight trainer so I am also in this for the physical gains as well. Is the hcg known to work for extended periods of time? And at what dose would be reasonable for my 250 a week? This is where my questions about when and if I should cycle off arise. And how long until I should go back on? Im aware cycling is more dangerous and a blast and cruise is optimal, but again im concerned with losing everything completely. And no, I have not used any pro hormones and I have not done a restart at all. I have not begun my treatment yet. Should be within the week. Im just trying to get everything straight. Also on a sidenote, I was told that arimidex was basically garbage and to use aromasin. I have already ordered and paid for the arimidex.... any truth to this? And what would be an appropriate dose/frequency of it for me? Thanks again!

chaos said:

Im aware the 250 a week is a little high for me, but I also dont mind. I wasnt too concerned with a higher level unless I should be for some particular reason? I am a weight trainer so I am also in this for the physical gains as well. Is the hcg known to work for extended periods of time? And at what dose would be reasonable for my 250 a week? This is where my questions about when and if I should cycle off arise. And how long until I should go back on? Im aware cycling is more dangerous and a blast and cruise is optimal, but again im concerned with losing everything completely. And no, I have not used any pro hormones and I have not done a restart at all. I have not begun my treatment yet. Should be within the week. Im just trying to get everything straight. Also on a sidenote, I was told that arimidex was basically garbage and to use aromasin. I have already ordered and paid for the arimidex.... any truth to this? And what would be an appropriate dose/frequency of it for me? Thanks again!

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I cruise at around 200 Mg per week and have blasted a couple of times with good results. I strongly recommend pinning twice per week to keep levels stable across that period of time. HCG, which I take at 500 IU per pin times two per week still works great after two years. My balls are full and look like a man versus raisins. HCG dosing bears NO relation to quantity of Test taken. It functions totally independent of Test to simulate LH which promotes your leydig cells to produce test. This stops a complete shutdown of natty test and would, in theory, allow you to come off TRT if needed with, hopefully, an easier reboot. I read in several studies where HCG can lose up to 20% effectiveness over a longer period of time (2 years) but I have not experienced that drop-off yet. Anastrozole is fine and not garbage at all. At .5 mg every other day or third day you should get good results. I convert easily so I have to take 2.5 mg per week. Let the labs guide you on the quantity of AI. I have used Arimidex (brand name for anastrozole) since I started and it is a good product. It is NOT a SERM.

Just experiment with your 250 and see where your total and free test levels settle. If you feel good and are getting good results, then stick with the 250. I like to keep my total around 900 on cruise and bioavaiable at around 450. YOu just need to listen to your body. More is NOT necessarily better.


Just run labs every 6-8 weeks. Six when you start and 8 after you settle in and get things tuned. DO NOT SKIP LABS!!!! If you are going to take matters into your own hands, YOU have the task to be responsible with YOUR health. Labs are as important as how many times you pin and which AI you are taking.

I hope this helps.

That helps enormously. Thank you very much.

pappybay said:

I cruise at around 200 Mg per week and have blasted a couple of times with good results. I strongly recommend pinning twice per week to keep levels stable across that period of time. HCG, which I take at 500 IU per pin times two per week still works great after two years. My balls are full and look like a man versus raisins. HCG dosing bears NO relation to quantity of Test taken. It functions totally independent of Test to simulate LH which promotes your leydig cells to produce test. This stops a complete shutdown of natty test and would, in theory, allow you to come off TRT if needed with, hopefully, an easier reboot. I read in several studies where HCG can lose up to 20% effectiveness over a longer period of time (2 years) but I have not experienced that drop-off yet. Anastrozole is fine and not garbage at all. At .5 mg every other day or third day you should get good results. I convert easily so I have to take 2.5 mg per week. Let the labs guide you on the quantity of AI. I have used Arimidex (brand name for anastrozole) since I started and it is a good product. It is NOT a SERM.

Just experiment with your 250 and see where your total and free test levels settle. If you feel good and are getting good results, then stick with the 250. I like to keep my total around 900 on cruise and bioavaiable at around 450. YOu just need to listen to your body. More is NOT necessarily better.


Just run labs every 6-8 weeks. Six when you start and 8 after you settle in and get things tuned. DO NOT SKIP LABS!!!! If you are going to take matters into your own hands, YOU have the task to be responsible with YOUR health. Labs are as important as how many times you pin and which AI you are taking.

I hope this helps.

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Any advice for support products during this time? And are there any side effects you can confirm from the hcg use?

Also before I forget, is it ok to pin the hcg at the same time as the test? Same muscle?

chaos said:

Also before I forget, is it ok to pin the hcg at the same time as the test? Same muscle?

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Hcg at the same time is fine, BUT I think you are doing Test via Intramuscular injection and you usually do Hcg sub-q. FWIW, My plan has me pinning Hcg @ 350IU SUBQ twice a week. Test once a week IM.

cosmo6434 said:

Hcg at the same time is fine, BUT I think you are doing Test via Intramuscular injection and you usually do Hcg sub-q. FWIW, My plan has me pinning Hcg @ 350IU SUBQ twice a week. Test once a week IM.

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Any thought on guidelines to dose the hcg?

chaos said:

Any thought on guidelines to dose the hcg?

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Well, 350IU SUBQ twice a week was PRESCRIBED by my doctor. I researched my dosages and they were in line with what others are taking, plus, my levels are good and my nuts work.
Lets ask the larger community what their thoughts are on dosage; what are other's thoughts on dosage?

chaos said:

Any advice for support products during this time? And are there any side effects you can confirm from the hcg use?

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As for support products I stay with simple supplements you can get cheaply off Amazon like D3 (15,000 Ius per day), Magnesium (400-600 mg per day), a good multivitamin, 1,500 units of fish oil per day. Nothing else except a good clean diet high in protein.

chaos said:

Also before I forget, is it ok to pin the hcg at the same time as the test? Same muscle?

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You need to pin the HCG the day before the test, not on the same day. HCG should be pinned in your stomach area using a insulin syringe (31 gauge) This will be a SubQ (just under the skin) injection as HCG has been proven to work best in that type of introduction. Test should be intramuscular and use a longer syringe. I use 1" BD pins and BD syringes I get from Medvet international.

Hope this helps. Best of luck brother.

cosmo6434 said:

Hcg at the same time is fine, BUT I think you are doing Test via Intramuscular injection and you usually do Hcg sub-q. FWIW, My plan has me pinning Hcg @ 350IU SUBQ twice a week. Test once a week IM.

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You really need to use 500 Iu's per week versus 350. There are plenty of articles on this usage level.

QUOTE=pappybay;255279]You really need to use 500 Iu's per week versus 350. There are plenty of articles on this usage level.[/QUOTE]

Thanks a ton guys, big help. Pappy I take 5000 I.u daily of d3, studys have found that toxicity can occur of dosages above 12000 I.u for consistent times. Do the steroids negate this effect? Also I have been known to get really lean sometimes, is there any other acceptable injection spots for the hcg?

pappybay said:

You really need to use 500 Iu's per week versus 350. There are plenty of articles on this usage level.

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And you mean 500 twice per week correct?

chaos said:

QUOTE=pappybay;255279]You really need to use 500 Iu's per week versus 350. There are plenty of articles on this usage level.

Click to expand...

Thanks a ton guys, big help. Pappy I take 5000 I.u daily of d3, studys have found that toxicity can occur of dosages above 12000 I.u for consistent times. Do the steroids negate this effect? Also I have been known to get really lean sometimes, is there any other acceptable injection spots for the hcg?[/QUOTE]


Understand on the D3.

Yes, you can pin the HCG anyplace where you have some bodyfat. Don't pin in the same location as your gear as you are just gonna make yourself sore from the quantity of injections, even using a 31 gauge pin. I have pinned in my upper chest where I carry a little fat but 99% of the time I pin to the right or left of my belly button. You really need to inject into a fatty tissue area. Location doesn't matter.

chaos said:

And you mean 500 twice per week correct?

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Yes, sorry for the slip. Twice per week or 1,000 Iu's per week.