Stacking too many AAS

I'm researching what I want to do for my next cycle now, 25years old, 221lbs 11% fat or so. Ultimate goal is to put on more lean mass and eventually get up around the 270lb size, while doing so I would like to avoid extreme bloatiness and massive water retention. Past experience running test no higher then 500mg weekly, var, blackstone labs dmz/tren/epi.
I had great experience stacking anavar with a blackstone labs trenabol prohormone. That experience made me start looking into trying actual tren ace for my next cycle. I would choose tren A just incase the sides are too extreme and it would be able to clear my system faster. while looking into Tren I read its best to be used with anadrol or Dbol, then eventually found some articles on stacking Adrol with Dbol.
Now for my next cycle I was looking into slightly increasing Test C to 600mg a week for 12weeks total, Tren A (have not concluded on a dose to start yet), stacking that with Dbol 25mg everyday with 50mg anadrol everyday, and possibly running a prohormone trenabol either the same time during adrol/dbol or just use after those two orals clear out possibly the 8-12week range while on test.

Im looking for more thoughts, experience and knowledge with a cycle of these compounds.
I still have 8 more weeks before Im ready to start up another cycle, but would like to do all the research now.

I was considering running Deca instead of test but the only experience I have with it is a gym partner who was on it (although I dont think he diets properly) he did put some good size on, but lost absolutely all definition while on cycle, and seems to have shrunk considerably now that he has been off.

Test should be the base of all cycles (bro-science) but you should follow the rule IMO.

If you want to grow then up the test.
Dbol and Drol shouldn't be a problem but dont throw in the other orals.

1-4 Prop 100mgs EOD
1-4 Test E/C 250mgs EW
5-14 Test E/C 750mgs
1-12 Deca 400-500mgs
11-14 Dbol/Drol Combo

slow_spool said:

I'm researching what I want to do for my next cycle now, 25years old, 221lbs 11% fat or so. Ultimate goal is to put on more lean mass and eventually get up around the 270lb size, while doing so I would like to avoid extreme bloatiness and massive water retention. Past experience running test no higher then 500mg weekly, var, blackstone labs dmz/tren/epi.
I had great experience stacking anavar with a blackstone labs trenabol prohormone. That experience made me start looking into trying actual tren ace for my next cycle. I would choose tren A just incase the sides are too extreme and it would be able to clear my system faster. while looking into Tren I read its best to be used with anadrol or Dbol, then eventually found some articles on stacking Adrol with Dbol.
Now for my next cycle I was looking into slightly increasing Test C to 600mg a week for 12weeks total, Tren A (have not concluded on a dose to start yet), stacking that with Dbol 25mg everyday with 50mg anadrol everyday, and possibly running a prohormone trenabol either the same time during adrol/dbol or just use after those two orals clear out possibly the 8-12week range while on test.

Im looking for more thoughts, experience and knowledge with a cycle of these compounds.
I still have 8 more weeks before Im ready to start up another cycle, but would like to do all the research now.

I was considering running Deca instead of test but the only experience I have with it is a gym partner who was on it (although I dont think he diets properly) he did put some good size on, but lost absolutely all definition while on cycle, and seems to have shrunk considerably now that he has been off.

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DECA seems to do this to me, I do gain and keep most but loose ALOT of water when it starts to clear. I like to run it when im on 100mg winny. Deca makes me look and feel kinda blocky...

You want to go up 50lbs but you arent willing to do a true bulk? Enjoy that decade of work. Meanwhile I'll do true bulks and get there in 2 years.

Nocode8511 said:

Test should be the base of all cycles (bro-science) but you should follow the rule IMO.

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I completely understand that, it was my bad in the last part I typed "test" instead of "tren".

Falcon said:

You want to go up 50lbs but you arent willing to do a true bulk? Enjoy that decade of work. Meanwhile I'll do true bulks and get there in 2 years.

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Your idea of a true bulk is adding 20lbs of water weight just so it can come right off after your cycle and it may look as if you lost the majority of your gains?

Ive been natty for years before this, so to me adding any anabolic compound is already speeding up the gains I would normally expect to have. It will not take me a decade to get there.
I appreciate all your kind help and contributing your knowledge to my thread.

A few more questions I have would be when stacking Adrol and Dbol together what dosage range is normally reccomended?
Tren A dosage range for a first time user of tren?

The synergy with the drol/dbol combo is impressive even at a very moderate dose. 25/25 is really all you need. As we all know both share many similarities,yet each have there own responsibilities down different pathways. With My personal experience I've noticed keeping the doses equal but moderate was just as effective at a slightly higher to moderate dose. Keep in mind that you don't have to increase any doses (especially test) to get greater effects out of your cycle, adding additional compounds and staying moderate can still take you a long way,with the addition of added compounds.

^^there is a great article about a blast with test/deca and dbol/drol and how amazing it was for bulking.

topspeed300km said:

^^there is a great article about a blast with test/deca and dbol/drol and how amazing it was for bulking.

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Are you referring to the one written by Gavin Kane?

Someone post the article?

Sounds like an interesting article..please post

To the OP, if you do decide to run deca instead of tren consider using NPP instead. Less water retention, and drier gains. Just a thought. Some people swear by deca, others NPP.

jerseydevil said:

To the OP, if you do decide to run deca instead of tren consider using NPP instead. Less water retention, and drier gains. Just a thought. Some people swear by deca, others NPP.

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I agree.I felt great and less bloat with npp.I do love deca .just finished a cycle but like you said less definition.but thats ok for me.the npp with test prop is a good cycle.

50 drol/ 25 dbol is a potent oral combination, me and 2 other buddies have all used before. That's the doses I recommend, and I also agree with NoCodes cycle layout.

Oh and never touched deca, but NPP is amazing, much more enjoyable than tren.

Vision said:

Are you referring to the one written by Gavin Kane?

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not sure. ill try and find it. if you can find the article, post it!

Id run a low dose of test and a high dose of tren a, and take one oral. I think anything more than that will just be diminishing gains. I personally dont like deca or dbol, too much water weight and deca is the only thing so far that has given me forms of gyno. Tren is the best IMO

my off season cycle is like this and im a high level national competitor

Sus 250 or Test E - 1g
Tren E 8 weeks on / off switching with NPP - 600mg
EQ - 600 mg
Adrol -50mg 4 on 4 off switching with Dbol
hgh - 6iu
igf-1 100mcg on off 4 weeks

OP, how tall are you? I'm just curious b/c there's a huge difference between being 270 at 5'9" and 6'3".

I agree with the other guys. NPP over deca. NPP is a pretty amazing compound IMO. If you don't want to retain water or that bloated look, you may want to choose tbol over your oral choices. Based on what your goals are I would choose Prop/NPP/tbol and if you're brave enough maybe some Tren. Or you can start with NPP then switch to Tren the second half of the cycle. Just some thoughts. Good luck.


FKA rippedgolfer

the prototype said:

OP, how tall are you? I'm just curious b/c there's a huge difference between being 270 at 5'9" and 6'3".

I agree with the other guys. NPP over deca. NPP is a pretty amazing compound IMO. If you don't want to retain water or that bloated look, you may want to choose tbol over your oral choices. Based on what your goals are I would choose Prop/NPP/tbol and if you're brave enough maybe some Tren. Or you can start with NPP then switch to Tren the second half of the cycle. Just some thoughts. Good luck.


FKA rippedgolfer

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im 5'11.

Looking into NPP now, so currently for me wanting to slowly put on more lean mass I'm comparing NPP to Tren A. I see so many mixed reviews about Tren. The people who get less sides seem to swear by it, while others who do get the sides seem to really bash the compound.

topspeed300km said:

^^there is a great article about a blast with test/deca and dbol/drol and how amazing it was for bulking.

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Was it this article? either way, this is a terrific read that Im posting below.

By Gavin Kane

For many years, a great debate has raged over which oral is superior for mass gains, and two of them have stood the test of time; dianabol and anadrol. The debate has continued, arguing which of the two is superior, yet no conclusive evidence has proven one better than the other. People respond to each one differently, some swearing by dbol and some swearing by anadrol. Before we declare one the winner, I am going to go over a bit of history and chemical structure on both products.

Anadrol (oxymetholone) was first made available in the 1960’s by Syntex. It is very effective at increasing red blood cell production and was promising for treating severe cases of anemia. With the advent of newer and more advanced drugs such as Erythropoietin, which have less androgenic side effects, Anadrol was discontinued. New studies in AIDS/HIV patients revealed Anadrol was particularly effective at reducing wasting symptoms so it was re-released in the late 1990’s.

Oxymetholone is a derivative of dihydrotestosterone, which in theory means it should not convert to estrogen. Since it does not aromatize but still causes gynecomastia in some users, there are other pathways by which it converts. After looking at studies on AIDS patients, I found that it may convert by actively activating the estrogen receptor, so this is a product that would need an anti-estrogen such as Nolvadex.

Dianabol (methandrostenolone) was first made in 1956 by John Zieglar of Ciba fame. Dianabol has been one of the most popular oral steroids of all time, exploding in popularity in the 1970’s with bodybuilders and football players and expanding into all avenues of athletics during the 1980’s. It somewhat waned during the 1990’s with the steroid control act, but was hot again in the early 2000’s with reproduction in mass quantities by Mexican labs and underground labs.
Methandrostenolone is a derivative of testosterone and hence will convert to estrogen. Gyno will be a concern for sure, in almost all users, whereas only less than 25% have problems with Anadrol. Again water retention will be a problem, usually due to the estrogenic properties.

Both products will have similar androgenic side effects, which include; acne, water retention, oily skin, male pattern baldness, and increased body hair growth. Both drugs are c17 alpha alkylated, therefore liver protection will be necessary, especially when combining the two.

So we come to the premise of this article, Anadrol vs. Dianabol. Why, the great debate over which product to take? They work on different pathways, have similar side effects you will have to combat, and both are liver toxic. So why is there a debate over which is better and which one should you take? Well, as I stated earlier, different people have different responses to each product. Many people, including myself, find high doses of Anadrol to be too much to handle in trade of the results you get. With this product, I have an extreme loss of appetite, massive water retention, and overall aches and pains and headaches.

On the other hand, when I take Dianabol, I get a general sense of well-being, good but not great size gains, and the ability to keep eating. It sounds like I should keep taking Dianabol and drop the Anadrol, right? Wrong. I get massive male pattern baldness from Dianabol, which I do not experience from Anadrol. I have an increase in blood pressure levels at doses that are high enough to match my gains from Anadrol, and I have to shorten my cycles because of the massive dosages I take to get good gains. So in all, I get some side effects from each that I would like to avoid, while still retaining the great benefits that I can only get from each product.

Anadrol is well known for its ability to cause massive size and strength increases, and as we all know, a stronger muscle has to become a bigger muscle with enough calories to feed it. Dianabol gives me large, quality muscle gains without as much water retention as Anadrol. So what is the compromise? Do I take one during one cycle and then the other product during my next cycle?

The answer is no to both. There is no need to short change yourself gains in either department when you can have your cake and eat it too. I am not alone in my assessments of both products. Most guys have similar issues of massive water retention, headaches and loss of appetite with Anadrol, and MPB and fewer gains with Dianabol comparatively. So, the best thing we can do is decrease our dosages of both products to cut down on side-effects and take them at the same time to increase the benefits.

My recommendation is to take both products in lower dosages but for longer periods of time. Dianabol has been found to work much better for quality gains when taken in lower dosages but for longer periods of time. High doses have severe side effects in some users, a loss of all gains with cessation of the product because of the short cycle (4-6 weeks) and most of the aforementioned side-effects.

Your dosages will be cycle history dependent but when I was at the peak of my career, I was taking cycles of 200mg Dianabol for 6 weeks per cycle, or 250-300mg Anadrol per 6 week cycle. In later cycles when I decided to combine the two products together, I was able to drop my Dianabol use to 50mg per day, and my Anadrol use to 100mg per day and because of the synergistic effect of the two products combined, the effect was similar to high doses of each but with none of the sides. There is something very synergistic when taking these two products together with just a simple cycle of testosterone and deca-durabolin.

I would run my Anadrol cycles for 8 weeks at that dose and my Dianabol cycles for 10 weeks at that low dose with no liver toxic effects as proven by my quarterly blood tests. I did not have to take liver protectants, but I recommend them for most users. I no longer had to watch my blood pressure, my water retention was minimal compared to earlier cycles, and I was able to continue eating massive amounts of food because I did not experience appetite loss from a massive dose of Anadrol.

I highly recommend on your next bulking cycle you try the following: A base cycle of test and deca, add in the Anadrol and Dianabol mix, and some Nolvadex. You will be able to control your water retention, liver toxicity, and other side effects by controlling your dosages. Your doses will vary from mine, but just adjust accordingly and run them for longer periods of time. You will be amazed at the simplicity of this cycle and yet the synergy is un-describable. Your gains will be far better than you have ever had when taking each product alone, your side effects will be less than if you were to take either product in higher doses, thanks to the different biochemical pathways. Everyone already knows that test and anadrol, and deca and dbol are very synergistic. Now combine all four in a cycle and watch yourself just blow up.

Thank you Vision for posting that

I get bad sides mainly mental with trenE. I went to tren A at 100mg eod and hardly no sides. I run mast with trenA but I always cut on cycle. Now let me say I've never ran NPP. But I've run a LOT of tren.